Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4

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  • Reply 361 of 406
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SendMe View Post


    Exactly. When the software fix comes, all these haters at CR will eat their words.



    When software "fix" comes, people will start complaining their iPhones never have full 5-bar signal. And they will be dropping calls like they already do.



    I really don't see how's that "fix" going to help. Such "fix" already exist in my 3Gs, giving me "No Service" or 1 bar on couple of spots where my Nokia shows very strong signal and never goes into "No Service".



    It only fixed my opinion that 3Gs has mediocre radio.
  • Reply 362 of 406
    Haven't read all the posts-- just a few of the first and a few of the last.



    Forgive me if this has already been posted:





    Consumer Reports: "By the Way, the iPhone 4 is Also the Best Smartphone on the Market"



    http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/2...on-the-market/



    .
  • Reply 363 of 406
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    How would using AT&T's own algorithm be 'screwing' AT&T?



    Maybe because now iPhone users on AT&T will almost never have full signal indicator. I'm guessing sooner or later competition will use that to make some extra fun out of AT&T.
  • Reply 364 of 406
    gary54gary54 Posts: 169member
    that all the detailed engineering that Apple goes through they'd overlook something so simple. They have pulled off design boners before, but this one deserves a merit badge.
  • Reply 365 of 406
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Outsider View Post


    Tape and bumpers are not the answer people. Seriously.



    They need to apply a coating to the antennas. It would be clear but enough to stop the issue from happening. Unfortunately, that would involve a recall, or at the very least a trip to the Apple store and a Genius to swap out the antennas with coated ones.



    Agreed. It's a beautiful piece of equipment but a failure to take into account the conductivity of human skin when in contact with the exterior of the device is undeniably a design flaw. Regardless of what Apple's official response is this generation I guarantee that the antennae on the iPhone 5 will be properly isolated.



    Steve is well aware that an early recall of such a high profile product would cost money and tarnish Apple's brand image. But when you actively cultivate the idea that your company manufactures flawless products and those products are subsequently found to contain a significant flaw consumers of those products have the right to an appropriate response. It's a matter of meeting the expectations you have set for your company. By charging premium prices and advertising the iPhone as a premium product Apple is entering into a contract to provide a premium product.



    Apple will choose to resolve this in the way that minimizes financial impact on the company. If it only affects a few sales Steve will stick to the software fix and hope it blows over. If it affects lots of sales the cheapest solution would be to bundle a bumper with every iPhone even though that would eliminate an additional income stream.
  • Reply 366 of 406
    nhtnht Posts: 4,487member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by w00master View Post


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_teRloJf6yE



    I make calls on my iPhone 4 just fine. The only time I got a lot of dropped calls was in a building that I was only getting a bar on anyway.
  • Reply 367 of 406
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Forgive me if this has already been posted:





    Consumer Reports: "By the Way, the iPhone 4 is Also the Best Smartphone on the Market"



    http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/2...on-the-market/



    .



    Yes yes, the glass is 5% empty. Anandtech also noted that while the external antenna is more sensitive to interference from touching, it's also more effective overall. As far as I'm concerned, what Consumer Reports originally said, that the iPhone 4's antenna issue is no reason not to buy, still holds true. Yes, I realize it can be a real issue for some owners, but by and large, the haters and the press are making a mountain out of a molehill. Apple has taken the unpopular stance that signal loss from how you hold any cell phone is normal (it is, it is just demonstrably more pronounced on the iPhone 4), and on a case by case basis, if you feel the iPhone 4's reception is unsatisfactory, your recourse is to return it (restocking fee waived). I think that's fair recourse. What bunches of very vocal people seem to think is that they are entitled to something more. Class action or free bumpers? An apology?
  • Reply 368 of 406
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post




    Plenty of products have design trade-offs. I can't imagine a jury not understanding that.



    What ?? If something like this ever went to jury, Apple is doomed. Settled out of court, even in the Eastern District of Texas.
  • Reply 369 of 406
    bushman4bushman4 Posts: 803member
    APPLE is sure to do something. Its aggravating to buy a piece of state of the art equipment and find out its not perfect. Yet the IPHONE 4 is still an amazing piece of equipment. For those that are not happy you can still return it .........DON'T CRY LATER.
  • Reply 370 of 406
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    Yes yes, the glass is 5% empty. Anandtech also noted that while the external antenna is more sensitive to interference from touching, it's also more effective overall. As far as I'm concerned, what Consumer Reports originally said, that the iPhone 4's antenna issue is no reason not to buy, still holds true. Yes, I realize it can be a real issue for some owners, but by and large, the haters and the press are making a mountain out of a molehill. Apple has taken the unpopular stance that signal loss from how you hold any cell phone is normal (it is, it is just demonstrably more pronounced on the iPhone 4), and on a case by case basis, if you feel the iPhone 4's reception is unsatisfactory, your recourse is to return it (restocking fee waived). I think that's fair recourse. What bunches of very vocal people seem to think is that they are entitled to something more. Class action or free bumpers? An apology?



    No one's going to listen to reason or make a rational choice. Apple are being held to a standard way higher than any other CE maker.

    The antenna has problems, it's an attenuation problem resulting in a max loss of 20db when held. Yet the very same labs that have found this problem say it's the best antenna Apple have ever released.

    What we have here is a failure to communicate - Apples incredibly poor PR contracts with their wonderful marketing. There's no way out of this for Apple now. Regardless of the phone doing exactly what they say. Apple will be hounded back into insignificance.



    The reason isn't just the antenna - it's the expectancy from the consumer, it's the maneuvering of Apple's competition and it's the modern world of social media. Where every idiot who refuses to take back a phone they claim is broken get's air time.





    The iP4 is faulty, but it's still arguably the best smart-phone on the market - just about every reviewer thinks that.



    Where we go from here is depressing. Apple still thinks like an underdog it's not used to being the 800 lb Gorilla. Apple will develop siege mentality and effectively withdraw from the social conversation allowing others to write that story.



    The world will lose a worthy rival to the likes of Google, MSFT, HTC - we'll be left with a lesser choice because having Android on every phone regardless of form factor is not choice ( but the Droid fan boys wont see that - Ironic Much? )



    Apple wont go bust, but we're at an inflection point and the outcome wont be determined on the actual quality of the phone s both Droid based and iP4 it's going to be determined by people to stupid to return the iP4 if they think it's broke and buy a Droid and people who buy a phone worth $500 and cant be bothered to buy a protective cover.





    How did we ever descend from the trees ?
  • Reply 371 of 406
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post


    APPLE is sure to do something. Its aggravating to buy a piece of state of the art equipment and find out its not perfect. Yet the IPHONE 4 is still an amazing piece of equipment. For those that are not happy you can still return it .........DON'T CRY LATER.



    That's part of the problem - tech has crossed the chasm regarding smart phones and most of the people talking about them have no clue.



    People expect advert perfection and when they hold a gorgeous phone that doesn't do everything they dreamed it would . People scream murder.
  • Reply 372 of 406
    firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,502member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post


    What we have here is a failure to communicate - Apples incredibly poor PR contracts with their wonderful marketing. There's no way out of this for Apple now. Regardless of the phone doing exactly what they say. Apple will be hounded back into insignificance.

    ...

    The world will lose a worthy rival to the likes of Google, MSFT, HTC - we'll be left with a lesser choice because having Android on every phone regardless of form factor is not choice ( but the Droid fan boys wont see that - Ironic Much? )



    Apple wont go bust, but we're at an inflection point and the outcome wont be determined on the actual quality of the phone s both Droid based and iP4 it's going to be determined by people to stupid to return the iP4 if they think it's broke and buy a Droid and people who buy a phone worth $500 and cant be bothered to buy a protective cover.





    Dramatic



    At the moment Apple are riding the crest of the wave but they were never destined have majority market share in the phone market. It's just not in their DNA to be in the race to the bottom.



    They might settle around 20% or so of the smartphone market which will continue to increase as a percentage of the overall phone market, but I think that's it. No one ever expected Apple growth to continue until they replaced everyone else!



    The important thing is who those 20% of phone users are, and more importantly how much of a premium they are willing to pay for Apple products and services. I remember reading somewhere that Apple made more profit than any other phone manufacturer, even though their market share is relatively small.
  • Reply 373 of 406
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    Dramatic



    At the moment Apple are riding the crest of the wave but they were never destined have majority market share in the phone market. It's just not in their DNA to be in the race to the bottom.



    They might settle around 20% or so of the smartphone market which will continue to increase as a percentage of the overall phone market, but I think that's it. No one ever expected Apple growth to continue until they replaced everyone else!



    The important thing is who those 20% of phone users are, and more importantly how much of a premium they are willing to pay for Apple products and services. I remember reading somewhere that Apple made more profit than any other phone manufacturer, even though their market share is relatively small.



    Dramatic ? - more pained and tired



    Sure, no one ever expected Apple to have more than 30% of the smart-phone market. But rather than force Apple back into a siege mentality, I was hoping the iPhone 4 would move them into a more relaxed and open space. Facetime showed promise in that area. But all this will most likely curtail that. Apple will just retreat behind a wall of silence and "throw" their products over the fence at us ?
  • Reply 374 of 406
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post


    I'm an Apple fanboi, but this is f-ed up.



    The company needs to swallow their pride and fix this issue.



    /sarcasm on/

    Yeah, I suspect they are doing absolutely nothing about it at all.

    /sarcasm off/

    When they have a fix, they will issue it and I'd bet it will be with little to no announcement about fixing reception issue at all. Just a simple firmware update.
  • Reply 375 of 406
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    What does the random homophobic remark add to anything? Even if Steve Jobs was gay (I know he isn't), and even if him and Jonny Ive were a couple, what would that have to do with anything?



    This isn't 1974, the mere mention of gays is neither funny, risque, nor relevant all by itself. You've done this about five times that I can recall already, please stop. It's just not funny to chime in with some cryptic, off-topic reference to anal sex on a tech blog unless you are basically twelve years old or, (as I said above), still living in 1974.



    I get it, OK? Your a homophobe, or maybe just a gay-hater, that much is crystal clear. It just doesn't have any relevance to this forum or any of the discussions we have on it.



    Clearly you've taken my humorous comment a bit too seriously. Maybe it's the YouTubes, where "gay" is tossed around in a wide and mostly distasteful manner, and you perceive me as a childish "gay-hater" like those YouTube commenters.



    I don't care whether Steve or Ives or whoever is gay or a couple or whatever. How would you know what my sexual orientation, history or preferences are anyways?



    I get it, OK? The thought of anal sex makes you uncomfortable. Why the prudishness if I choose to inject such occasional jokes to lighten up the mood here?



    I was just trying to make a point to a previous poster that Ives was in no danger of any kind of reprimand because Steve was clearly totally on board with the design of the phone and antenna system, and probably encouraged or championed it despite protests from the engineering teams. I discovered a pun in my post and thought I'd take advantage of that.



    This whole reception thing is totally out of control anyway. Each reception issue article has 5+ pages of comments, maybe I've given up on any sort of sane discussion, and perhaps I question my own contribution (if that is even possible) on these issues.



    Tell me you find my comments offensive, fine. But don't call me a homophobe.
  • Reply 376 of 406
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,826member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post


    I'm an Apple fanboi, but this is f-ed up.



    The company needs to swallow their pride and fix this issue.



    Used as directed there is nothing wrong with iPhone 4.

    Quote:

    I mean, c'mon, it took them 3 years to realize that there was a bug in the code that displays the signal bars? Give me an f-ing break. The code these guys work on would melt a Cray supercomputer, and a bug like that gets by them? If that's the case, the entire iPhone software team should be fired.



    And you think this is any different than any other cell phone. The bars are at best a rough indication of signal quality.



    Given this though when I see the bars go up and down right in front of me while using my 3G, should I blame the device? Of course not. It is a reality with all cell phones.

    Quote:



    I am taking my iPhone 4 into an Apple Store this week to get a refund, and a replacement 3GS.



    What for? Have you personally experienced issues with the phone?



    Honestly this is a knee jerk reaction. If you put a case on the phone you end up with the best mobile phone going. The case is only needed if you can't manage to hold the phone properly.

    Quote:

    And I also need to convince my wife that she's not getting the white iPhone she thinks she's getting later this month.



    That is nice, you are overbearing and controling of your wife too. I can see a divorce coming on. Besides you don't even know if the white phone has the same problem.





    Dave
  • Reply 377 of 406
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Magic8Ball View Post


    Dramatic ? - more pained and tired



    Sure, no one ever expected Apple to have more than 30% of the smart-phone market. But rather than force Apple back into a siege mentality, I was hoping the iPhone 4 would move them into a more relaxed and open space. Facetime showed promise in that area. But all this will most likely curtail that. Apple will just retreat behind a wall of silence and "throw" their products over the fence at us ?



    It's a bit strange, that the iPhone4 was going to explode Apple out of their siege mentality, but I think at the end of the day, Apple is really not for everyone. At least more people will realise this and not blindy hope on the bandwagon. Call me an elitist, but more sustainable growth and sales can only be better for us "real" Mac, iPad and iPhone users.



    iPhone4 was Apple's big reach to be really big, and it bit them in the ass. The success of the iPhone has led to, IMO, many issues with Macs and Mac support and service outside the US; Macs being neglected due to all the iPhone mania; perhaps all this will give a dose of sanity to everything Apple related. Who knows...
  • Reply 378 of 406
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    The case is only needed if you can't manage to hold the phone properly...



    At the end of the day, this is the fundamental point of this whole debacle I cannot yet accept. Maybe if I see the phone in person and am so amazed, then, I could accept it.



    It's halfway through 2010, how can there be a "proper way to hold a mobile phone"??? I mean, unless you're talking about holding it upside down and then complaining "oh, the other party can't hear me".



    This whole "you're holding it wrong" concept is preposterous.



    That's not a personal attack on you, I'm just saying, phone + hand = use of mobile phone. How could this have gone wrong in the design of the iPhone4?
  • Reply 379 of 406
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    Yes yes, the glass is 5% empty. Anandtech also noted that while the external antenna is more sensitive to interference from touching, it's also more effective overall. As far as I'm concerned, what Consumer Reports originally said, that the iPhone 4's antenna issue is no reason not to buy, still holds true. Yes, I realize it can be a real issue for some owners, but by and large, the haters and the press are making a mountain out of a molehill. Apple has taken the unpopular stance that signal loss from how you hold any cell phone is normal (it is, it is just demonstrably more pronounced on the iPhone 4), and on a case by case basis, if you feel the iPhone 4's reception is unsatisfactory, your recourse is to return it (restocking fee waived). I think that's fair recourse. What bunches of very vocal people seem to think is that they are entitled to something more. Class action or free bumpers? An apology?



    I think an apology would be best. It can only be good for Steve, Jonny, Apple, and customers and potential customers, users, and the tech industry.



    It would show that someone, has the balls to step up and say, look, we do make some great stuff and some of the most intelligent, easy-to-use technology ever created by humankind. But, in this case, we went a bit too far, and we're going to address this issue, and learn from it.



    Admittance, Acceptance, Moving Forward. That's what I think Apple should do. Whether I am a stockholder, or longtime user, or new user, or whatever.



    However - if Apple can prove and publish substantially in their "tests" that the reception is still fine, that "holding it wrong" doesn't affect reception any more than other phones, fair enough, I won't need an apology.



    *sigh* Maybe I'm going too far or just getting insane here. But just a simple, "We're going to address this" is what's needed more in the corporate world. I'm not talking about signal bar algorithms. Something more genuine.
  • Reply 380 of 406
    superbasssuperbass Posts: 688member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post


    I'm not questioning CR's testing methodology to arrive at their conclusions. I just question, especially since they knew at the time of their initial review where they said they could not duplicate the problem, knowing there was a problem, why they didn't do the above scientific experiment in their "special" room the first time around before making their report and issuing their conclusions?



    Is Consumer Reports following the footsteps of their "reporter" brethren of the Main Street media by doing shoddy journalistic work and not obtaining the correct story, complete with facts and the like?



    Actually, it's mainly just a case of CR wanting to release their review as early as possible. There was so much hype around the phone that they needed to get their review out before everyone had made up their minds to buy one or not - people tend to lose interest in reviews once their minds are already made up, and waiting a month for CR to do complete testing was something only their most rabidly loyal readers would have done.



    Also, Apple disguising their phones as 3G's with the rubber bumper to maintain their absurd secrecy program has really bitten them on the ass now, hasn't it?
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