Consumer Reports changes stance, cannot recommend Apple's iPhone 4

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  • Reply 121 of 406
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iadroidx View Post


    As the saying goes.........



    One bad "Apple" spoils the whole bunch.







    and now back to our regular scheduled progam, Cheers!









    May I ask what do you love about posting complete crap. You just like DaHarder but at least he can do something called constructive arguments USING TEXT. Not just posting big images. All I have seen with this so called Android is just some Windows like clone that is shoving itself onto everything just so it can have some market share. There is more problems with Droids than any other phone anyway, and I do hope no more phone companies jump onto this Droid bandwagon. Make you own OS! It's like the computer industry all over again. The true innovators like Palm are crushed and rubbish like Android prevails with it's cheep prices and crappy hardware.



    edit:



    Just look at the logo for christ sakes! It was designed at play skool... actually no it was designed by Open Source developers, THAT EXPLAINS IT.
  • Reply 122 of 406
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Irresponsible how?





    If he choose to return it, that is fine. Apple has made it easy. At the same time, while it is a real issue, it hardly is the end of the world. I don't like the idea of having to change you behavior to use the phone. I don't like the customer having to buy a case to fix the problem. But, there is a work around.



    Pull the pickle out of your ass. Again, while a real problem, it isn't like you can't still use the phone.



    Combined with a 2 year contract, this is a multi-thousand dollar purchase.
  • Reply 123 of 406
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,698member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


    How ironic. I can't recommend Consumer Reports!



    Well, yeah, it does raise questions about all cell phone reviews at CR. Their usual testing says it's great, then, they retest with an apparently different methodology and say it's not great. But, as someone else pointed out, exactly how have they tested all the other cell phones out there? Will they retest them all under the same conditions of the 2nd iPhone test, or was the first iPhone test non-standard? Do they have a reliable methodology or not?
  • Reply 124 of 406
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    Combined with a 2 year contract, this is a multi-thousand dollar purchase.



    Yes it is. Again, while a real problem, it isn't like you can't still use the phone.



    Aside from the antenna problem (real and serious) the 4 is just so much better a device. All I am saying is to weigh the options available. Both have merit.



    Apparently, thinking an issue through and thoughtfully considering all options is 'irresponsible' to you.



    Whatever.
  • Reply 125 of 406
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Nah, Steve was probably 100% behind Jonny Ives on this one and they were both loving it. Get my drift?



    Loving my iPad though, hey, Apple's not perfect, they just went one design step too far on the iPhone4.



    Clearly a case where function should've won over form (aesthetics). Even if Ive insisted there would be a problem, Jobs would bulldozer his final judgment over all objections. [email protected]#*!
  • Reply 126 of 406
    daharderdaharder Posts: 1,580member
    Well... Well... Well, This Certainly Is Interesting
  • Reply 127 of 406
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,698member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thomas Gilling View Post


    ... You just like DaHarder but at least he can do something called constructive arguments ...



    OK, that's a bit of a stretch.
  • Reply 128 of 406
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,698member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Yes it is. Again, while a real problem, it isn't like you can't still use the phone.



    Aside from the antenna problem (real and serious) the 4 is just so much better a device. All I am saying is to weigh the options available. Both have merit.



    Apparently, thinking an issue through and thoughtfully considering all options is 'irresponsible' to you.



    Whatever.



    samab would prefer you buy a CDMA phone.
  • Reply 129 of 406
    dvhdvh Posts: 9member
    I'd guess that probably 95% of people are really happy with their new iPhone. I am. Performance-wise, in every aspect, it's the best iPhone yet.



    I've known that my previous 3G had the internal antenna in the lower third of the body of the phone. It makes no sense to cup your hand around any antenna and expect optimum performance. So I hold either phone by the top and leave the bottom free. Not a big deal to learn this behavior.



    When driving - I put the phone on the dash and use a headset. Antenna problem is a non-issue.



    And I got a case for protection. Added benefit is now when I hold it, lets say for sending messages, I won't in contact with that problematic lower left corner.



    For me this is a big non-issue.



    But still Apple blew it. Any antenna design engineer should have known that letting the antenna conductor contact the hand would de-tune the antenna and absorb signal. Is this a recall situation? IMHO-no. Should Apple offer some kind of case "free" to anyone having a problem - Yes.



    Of course some people will never let this go. And they will miss out on owning the best smartphone currently on the market.
  • Reply 130 of 406
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    Yes it is. Again, while a real problem, it isn't like you can't still use the phone.



    Aside from the antenna problem (real and serious) the 4 is just so much better a device. All I am saying is to weigh the options available. Both have merit.



    Apparently, thinking an issue through and thoughtfully considering all options is 'irresponsible' to you.



    Whatever.



    Agreed...but which would you rather have, an original 4g or a redesigned 4g?
  • Reply 131 of 406
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,729member
    What a surprise - it's no a Toyota Camray so they don't like it
  • Reply 132 of 406
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Am I the only one that actually *likes* the new antenna design? I have used a few cellphones and it always annoyed me how you could never seriously tell what the signal was and how there was seemingly no relation between the bars and the signal you are getting. It was all so vague.



    Frankly, I never look at the bars unless there's a problem and I can't make a call. So far, I've never had any problem making a call with my iPhone 4. In fact, warts and all, it works better than my iPhone 3 or any of the other phones in the household.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SendMe View Post


    This is a non issue. The only "problem" is the bar display, which is going to be improved in a software update real soon now.



    That is not correct. There are at least 3 unrelated problems and it would be really helpful if people would stop confusing them.



    1. Error in reporting # of bars (actually, not an error, just a bad way of reporting). This can make it look like your signal is stronger than it really is, so you may lose calls even if you have a lot of bars. Will be fixed with a software fix.



    2. Decrease in signal with hand covering antenna. This happens on any phone ever made. Under some tests, the drop may be worse on the iPhone under some conditions, but since the iPhone's antenna is more sensitive than other phones, the two effects may balance each other. Only becomes a problem in very weak signal areas - and can be fixed by holding your phone differently.



    3. Decrease in signal from touching the two antennae. This is the same effect as any external antenna would have. Anyone over the age of 45 probably remembers fidding with TV anntennas to try to get a good signal. This problem is unique to the iPhone. It can be addressed by holding the phone differently or buying a case. The trade-off is that you get better reception than other phones due to the external antenna.



    You may decide that it's not worth holding the phone differently. If so, the iPhone isn't for you. But so far, the majority of people are happy with the new iPhone.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post


    And yet my wife and I were remarking just last night how fantastic our experience with our iPhone 4s have been. I guess we'll throw them away.



    Not.



    Will Consumer Reports retest every cell phone ever made for this phenomena?



    No.



    Of course CR won't test other phones. They thrive on topics that can stir up a media frenzy. The fact that they were happy with the phone but retested it on the basis of a few complaints is troublesome in itself. That says that a few whiners who find some obscure problem with something that most people don't care about can outweigh millions of happy customers.



    I'm with you. My iPhone is the best phone I've ever had.
  • Reply 133 of 406
    kiweekiwee Posts: 102member
    The fighting over this issue is getting boring.

    Why can't people accept that just because you don't have the problem does not mean the problem does not exist.



    The Apple press release was terrible. It was obvious they were not telling the whole story.



    The good thing about this CR piece is that it forces Apples hand.

    They will have to respond. Shareholders will demand it.
  • Reply 134 of 406
    daharderdaharder Posts: 1,580member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Um, I've still yet to meet anyone demonstrating that this is a 'problem'.



    Again...

    "Doc... it hurts when I do this."

    "Then don't do that".



    Move your GD finger a millimeter.



    The antenna design is still a vast improvement for those not trying to get in on a phony class action.



    Textbook Delusional...
  • Reply 135 of 406
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Not really, it's pretty obvious.



    Apple said it themselves on the open letter



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SendMe View Post


    This is a non issue. The only "problem" is the bar display, which is going to be improved in a software update real soon now.



    I also think the bar calculation thingy is related to how the OS gets data from the antenna: maybe it stops receiving data when the bars drop even when there's still signal (how come so many tests show that there is almost no difference in speed between 5 and 2 bars?)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iadroidx View Post


    As the saying goes.........



    One bad "Apple" spoils the whole bunch.



    and now back to our regular scheduled progam, Cheers!



    TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post


    So, what does a whole lot of shitty droids get you?



    A high-tech headache.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AmazingApple View Post


    You may not have "met" anyone that can show you the problem, so you may choose to not believe what you are being told.



    I think he just meant to say this isn't a design flaw.



    Quote:

    Evidently you are not doing any research on the topic either. There are plenty of clips demonstrating the the ability to drop calls and stop data downloads on que. Speed tests confirm it as well. Keep in mind that if you try to replicate these tests in areas with very strong AT&T signal, you will fail to reproduce it. This is why some folks are having great service, while others experience significant problems. It seems like many areas I travel to in the U.S. has less than ideal signal strength.



    Well, duh. In my school some rooms get a really poor signal, and laying my hand in front of my iPod Touch's antenna does the same thing. IT'S NOT A DESIGN FLAW



    Quote:

    coworkers and I all have the new iPhone 4 and all of us can drop calls and stop data downloads on que by just holding the phone with two fingers. No need to use any kind of squeezing death grip. It is so easy to do that we will routinely terminate the call in this manner with friends just for the fun of it. We all had 3GS iPhones previously with no reception problems whatsoever.



    Well that's a frickin lie



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ArtDecoDalek View Post


    So they're screwing AT&T by using the formula that AT&T recommends. Indeed, your logic is irrefutable.



  • Reply 136 of 406
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bradleysm View Post


    But that's exactly what he's saying. What appears to be 5 full bars to you, could really be a 3-bar signal area, and maybe not even a stable one at that.

    I've been in areas where, standing still, the signal will flucuate between 2-4 bars for no obvious reason.



    Fixing the software will not fix the hardware design problem, but it will at least let you know for certain what the true signal strength is when the problem occurs. so we can make a valid determination. Remember, right now 5 bars is probably not 5 bars.



    Really!? If I was actually getting five, how many would it show?
  • Reply 137 of 406
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post


    Agreed...but which would you rather have, an original 4g or a redesigned 4g?



    Obviously, I'd like the one that has been fixed. A full redesign probably isn't likely, just a coating during manufacturing. We still don't have a release date for Canada, so I am hoping things will settle down by then. Realistically, if they haven't made changes to their process at this point, the initial stock for Canada will be the same as the US stock.
  • Reply 138 of 406
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,729member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    You really can?t see a difference between CR and others testing and reporting on an issue with a bunch of Chicken Littles claiming the sky is falling because an acorn fell on their head? Anyone can make absolute claims to something, and they may be occasionally correct, but without a cogent argument to back up claim it?s all just emotion driven dramatics.



    CR's conclusions still don't make sense as RF does not behave like electrical current. A simple piece of tape shouldn't make a difference.



    Besides, all that matters for me is real world performance vs. theoretical pontificating. The iPhine 4 beats the pants off of the 3Gs in actual usage - without a case. I haven't used on before and I have no intention of bulking up my phone now with useless plastic or rubber.
  • Reply 139 of 406
    freddychfreddych Posts: 266member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post


    RF engineers have said that contact is not the issue, blocking signal is. If they are right this whole coating or tape issue is a non-starter. Even if it was it wouldn't be Apple's style to have people lined up at their stores to get their phones fixed. More likely, if a physical fix is necessary/possible, they will simply exchange the phone for a new one. The old phones will be fixed at a facility, then re-sold as used at a reduced price.



    I expect it will be quite a while before we are done with this story. Both sides, haters and fans, will have their good days and bad days. Meanwhile, my phone is being delivered today and I am very excited to test it and see what all the hubbub is about.



    I have a had time believing this has nothing to do with contact because of two reasons:



    1) Tape and bumpers would not help unless it was a contact issue. Consumer reports specifically stated that duct tape over the seam alleviated the problems they were experiencing.



    2) The problem can be replicated by using a paper clip to bridge the seam with minimal obstruction of the antenna. Of course, this test doesn't exactly duplicate real world scenarios, but it does demonstrate an extreme of what people (and consumer reports) are complaining about.
  • Reply 140 of 406
    cgrisarcgrisar Posts: 54member
    I don't believe this.



    Has no one at Apple told CR how you need to hold the iPhone4.

    No one told CR that the consumer's grip is the issue, not the iPhone4?
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