I'd say the chances of that happening are zero. The iPhone 4's that have been tested all drop exactly the same amount of signal under the same circumstances.
Please provide more information about these 5 iPhones because otherwise it appears that the testing you're talking about is very dubious.
Well, yes, but you don't have any credibility left. You squandered what little you had long ago.
All true... except that all cell phones drop calls. So the appropriate comparison here isn't to cars or TVs, it's to other cellphones. Turns out that everyone who uses a cellphone will eventually experience a dropped call, if they actually go places with their phone.
So, how does the iPhone 4 compare to an iPhone 3GS or to a Droid phone in terms of reception and dropped calls? That's the real comparison.
From what I've read, the iPhone 4 actually is better than the 3GS in terms of dropped calls / reception, with the caveat that if you hold it in a particular way, the advantage disappears.
in my case, I almost never hold the phone when I'm talking -- I usually have it in my pocket, and I use the apple in-ear earphones with built-in mic. So this issue will not be an issue for me at all. As soon as the darn thing is available, I will definitely buy it.
I share a cube with an Apple 3GS user. His phone was part of the reason that I made the switch from Verizon to AT&T. He can not only reliably make calls from my cube, he can surf the net at 3G speeds. Now, we both have about the same number of bars when the phones are lying on the desk - but when he picks his phone up, he doesn't lose service. I do.
There is no real need for that for the average user. The real genius of Apple's design is what they leave out.
The 'Average User' would not dial the code required to pull it up. We are NOT talking about an App - we are talking about a 'secret' code that a person could type in. Who cares if the average user would never use it!?! The average user will never use the Dianostics Port on your car - shall we rip that out too?
The ONLY reason to remove a Diagnostic utility, is to make that data unavailable. Why would you intentionally hide data on how a phone is performing, unless you had data you did not want shared?
I have one of the iPhone 4s with antenna issues as well. But, how do you explain 5 total iPhones, in the exact same location, with 3 of them exhibiting the antenna issue problem, while the others seem to work fine and we can't reproduce the problem in those?
There it is right there. 100% proof that there is no design issue with the iPhone. Now if all the idiots with the conspiracy theories would shut the hell up maybe Apple will be able to figure out if its a production issue (will sort of embarrass the conspiracy nuts to find out this is all because one guy name Son Ge wasn't seating the antenna connectors right) or if its a software/network issue.
Hey axc51 could you try swapping around the sims in those phones and see if the problem ever follows the sim!
Yes, I know it must be annoying when it's pointed out that a) you don't know what you are talking about and b) don't care. Is there anyone who doesn't agree with you that hasn't lied?
No, I bought the iPhone on a promise. Deliver on that promise, fanboi.
If we allow Apple to lie, and deliver defective products and allow a fanboi like you to give them an excuse; then every other company is free to do the same. I opt to hold EVERYBODY to the same level. Deliver what you promised, so why don't you STFU and spit Stevie's member out of your mouth.
I have since purchased a case, and disabling the 3G has given me improved reception - but this isn't what was advertized, and this is not what I was would think would be an acceptable product.
Just about all the testing has shown so far that the addition of a case (or in the Consumer Reports' article, a simple piece of tape) has resolved the signal attenuation. AND you say that you have improved reception when you disable 3G. It sounds to me like the problem isn't with the phone itself, but rather AT&T's network.
I actually think the software upgrade will help you. If they do what they already said they'll do, which is tweak the calibration to report more closely to actual signal strength, you'll at least see that you probably have crappier reception at work than you thought. The not-as-advertised product here, if anything, is the 3G signal strength from AT&T. Hopefully future 700 MHz phones will help with this.
"...any RF Engineer knows..." And you call yourself an engineer after that? What grade did you drop out of school?
Please point out the error, fanboi. Why do you think modern equipment has an insulator around the antenna? Hmmm, please share some of your enlightenment on why it's a 'Good' thing to have an exposed antenna. Surely, if you knew anything of which you speak, you could give one reason. So, please share with the rest of us the benefits of exposing an antenna to human touch.
Feel free to use crayons, and maybe make a little constuction paper too. I'm sure Mommy has some safety scissors for you to use. Noob.
Extra credit. Why did Apple remove the Diagnostics Toolbox from iOS4? What is gained from removing a Diagnostics Utility that provides actual data measurements and parameters? Is there any reason to hide these numbers, other than to hide a design defect?
Do you have a iPhone 4? If not, I suggest you STFU. You have no skin in the game; you are background chatter. Somehow, I think if you had put your money where your mouth is, you'd be singing another song.
Some of us paid money for a defecive product, some of us face fines (re-stocking fees) and will then be forced to take another unwanted AT&T product for the remainder of our 2 yr committment - so having an ignorant Apple fanboi telling us to return the product is not helpful, or particularily intelligent.
There is no fine if you are not satisfied with the iPhone4, Apple will take it back and provide a full refund with no restocking charge. This has been well advertised. So I wonder who among these 2 really has purchased an iPhone??
Given Apple's offer as described, the real test of the scope of the problem [i.e., whether the antenna design is a deal breaker for actual users] will be how many iPhones are actually returned.
Just about all the testing has shown so far that the addition of a case (or in the Consumer Reports' article, a simple piece of tape) has resolved the signal attenuation. AND you say that you have improved reception when you disable 3G. It sounds to me like the problem isn't with the phone itself, but rather AT&T's network.
I actually think the software upgrade will help you. If they do what they already said they'll do, which is tweak the calibration to report more closely to actual signal strength, you'll at least see that you probably have crappier reception at work than you thought. The not-as-advertised product here, if anything, is the 3G signal strength from AT&T. Hopefully future 700 MHz phones will help with this.
I agree there is a certain amount of 'tweaking' that can be done. For example, we have a new TriQuint chipset - are the drivers that were origionally releaseed optimized? Do we need to put the 3G to sleep during a phone call? Re-calibration of the face detect feature is almost a given.
But, the fact that the bar calculation has been used for EVERY generation of iPhone - and now, mysteriously this is the cause of all of the reception problems - that is utter BS. There are concessions made when you write firmware, I wonder if the firmware places greater emphsis on maintaining 3G than it does on voice. As I mentioned, since I disabled 3G the recpetion problem has been greatly improved. My data suggests a ~10-12dBA improvement.
Field testing is fine, it's a good thing to do. But, any RF Engineer knows that touching an antenna is NEVER a good thing - it introduces parasitical resistance (you can work with that) and a 10-40 pF capacitance (Very Bad). The capacitance issue is what will de-tune your antenna. This is why adding electical tape really has a minimal impact - you need distance between the antenna and your body - just a few millimeters is all it takes.
Apple opted for cosmetics over RF Antenna design. This is an intentional design flaw. A concesssion was made for function vs. pretty. It was a poor decision. You have probably seen the Diagnostics Toolbox in the earlier OS. Why was this removed? They had the software, and they intentionally removed it .... why?
Consider, for the first time ever ..... ever! Apple made an accessory for the iPhone, and what an amazing coincidence that the product doesn't work well without this accessory!! Why, it's almost beyond belief.
Have you gotten your $ 600 worth of bitching yet? As far as the antenna design you don't have a clue about Apple's RF design choices. Tell me why did the original cell phones use external antennas. Oh yes that's right to improve reception. And why did handset manufactures go with internal antennas, yes again to improve aesthetics. Apple has provided a design which meets both requirements performance and aesthetics but in the process may have overlooked the huge variation in human behavior. For example some people can't follow simple instructions like don't run red lights or keep your meaty palms off the antenna gap and therefore they believe the company owes them compensation. It has yet to be proven that the problem is actually the antenna design, it could just as likely be a problem in the receiver which occurs when you intentionally detune the antenna.
There is no fine if you are not satisfied with the iPhone4, Apple will take it back and provide a full refund with no restocking charge. This has been well advertised. So I wonder who among these 2 really has purchased an iPhone??
Given Apple's offer as described, the real test of the scope of the problem [i.e., whether the antenna design is a deal breaker for actual users] will be how many iPhones are actually returned.
I bought my phone through AT&T - as the Apple website was broken for much of the release day, due to the high demand. AT&T states that they have a re-stocking fee of 10%, and the next phone is the phone I am stuck with for the remainder of my 2 yr contract. That's what I have been told.
My point is that Apple delivered a product that does not function as promised. I'm demanding that they fix the problem and deliver what they advertized. My standards are consistent - whether it's a car, a jacket, backpack, TV or a home. Apple was free to advertize any product in any manner - they set the rules, they set the standards. I'm telling them to deliver on what they promised. Nothing more, nothing less.
Comments
When does the 30 day return policy kick in? What was the release date again? 30 days must be getting close for the early birds.
July 24th is the last day you can return it if you got one on launch.
I'd say the chances of that happening are zero. The iPhone 4's that have been tested all drop exactly the same amount of signal under the same circumstances.
Please provide more information about these 5 iPhones because otherwise it appears that the testing you're talking about is very dubious.
Well, yes, but you don't have any credibility left. You squandered what little you had long ago.
All true... except that all cell phones drop calls. So the appropriate comparison here isn't to cars or TVs, it's to other cellphones. Turns out that everyone who uses a cellphone will eventually experience a dropped call, if they actually go places with their phone.
So, how does the iPhone 4 compare to an iPhone 3GS or to a Droid phone in terms of reception and dropped calls? That's the real comparison.
From what I've read, the iPhone 4 actually is better than the 3GS in terms of dropped calls / reception, with the caveat that if you hold it in a particular way, the advantage disappears.
in my case, I almost never hold the phone when I'm talking -- I usually have it in my pocket, and I use the apple in-ear earphones with built-in mic. So this issue will not be an issue for me at all. As soon as the darn thing is available, I will definitely buy it.
I share a cube with an Apple 3GS user. His phone was part of the reason that I made the switch from Verizon to AT&T. He can not only reliably make calls from my cube, he can surf the net at 3G speeds. Now, we both have about the same number of bars when the phones are lying on the desk - but when he picks his phone up, he doesn't lose service. I do.
Please provide more information about these 5 iPhones because otherwise it appears that the testing you're talking about is very dubious.
There was nothing scientific about those tests. They are unreliable.
Well, yes, but you don't have any credibility left. You squandered what little you had long ago.
No Apple did when they lied annoyingmouse.
There is no real need for that for the average user. The real genius of Apple's design is what they leave out.
The 'Average User' would not dial the code required to pull it up. We are NOT talking about an App - we are talking about a 'secret' code that a person could type in. Who cares if the average user would never use it!?! The average user will never use the Dianostics Port on your car - shall we rip that out too?
The ONLY reason to remove a Diagnostic utility, is to make that data unavailable. Why would you intentionally hide data on how a phone is performing, unless you had data you did not want shared?
I have one of the iPhone 4s with antenna issues as well. But, how do you explain 5 total iPhones, in the exact same location, with 3 of them exhibiting the antenna issue problem, while the others seem to work fine and we can't reproduce the problem in those?
There it is right there. 100% proof that there is no design issue with the iPhone. Now if all the idiots with the conspiracy theories would shut the hell up maybe Apple will be able to figure out if its a production issue (will sort of embarrass the conspiracy nuts to find out this is all because one guy name Son Ge wasn't seating the antenna connectors right) or if its a software/network issue.
Hey axc51 could you try swapping around the sims in those phones and see if the problem ever follows the sim!
No Apple did when they lied annoyingmouse.
Yes, I know it must be annoying when it's pointed out that a) you don't know what you are talking about and b) don't care. Is there anyone who doesn't agree with you that hasn't lied?
I couldn't have said it better.
Now return your iPhone and STFU.
No, I bought the iPhone on a promise. Deliver on that promise, fanboi.
If we allow Apple to lie, and deliver defective products and allow a fanboi like you to give them an excuse; then every other company is free to do the same. I opt to hold EVERYBODY to the same level. Deliver what you promised, so why don't you STFU and spit Stevie's member out of your mouth.
I have since purchased a case, and disabling the 3G has given me improved reception - but this isn't what was advertized, and this is not what I was would think would be an acceptable product.
Just about all the testing has shown so far that the addition of a case (or in the Consumer Reports' article, a simple piece of tape) has resolved the signal attenuation. AND you say that you have improved reception when you disable 3G. It sounds to me like the problem isn't with the phone itself, but rather AT&T's network.
I actually think the software upgrade will help you. If they do what they already said they'll do, which is tweak the calibration to report more closely to actual signal strength, you'll at least see that you probably have crappier reception at work than you thought. The not-as-advertised product here, if anything, is the 3G signal strength from AT&T. Hopefully future 700 MHz phones will help with this.
"...any RF Engineer knows..." And you call yourself an engineer after that? What grade did you drop out of school?
Please point out the error, fanboi. Why do you think modern equipment has an insulator around the antenna? Hmmm, please share some of your enlightenment on why it's a 'Good' thing to have an exposed antenna. Surely, if you knew anything of which you speak, you could give one reason. So, please share with the rest of us the benefits of exposing an antenna to human touch.
Feel free to use crayons, and maybe make a little constuction paper too. I'm sure Mommy has some safety scissors for you to use. Noob.
Extra credit. Why did Apple remove the Diagnostics Toolbox from iOS4? What is gained from removing a Diagnostics Utility that provides actual data measurements and parameters? Is there any reason to hide these numbers, other than to hide a design defect?
The expected software update is a COSMETIC change only that deals with the signal bar display. It will have zero affect on the dropped call issue.
Somehow, I'll choose to believe Apple. They have never let us down.
Do you have a iPhone 4? If not, I suggest you STFU. You have no skin in the game; you are background chatter. Somehow, I think if you had put your money where your mouth is, you'd be singing another song.
Some of us paid money for a defecive product, some of us face fines (re-stocking fees) and will then be forced to take another unwanted AT&T product for the remainder of our 2 yr committment - so having an ignorant Apple fanboi telling us to return the product is not helpful, or particularily intelligent.
There is no fine if you are not satisfied with the iPhone4, Apple will take it back and provide a full refund with no restocking charge. This has been well advertised. So I wonder who among these 2 really has purchased an iPhone??
Given Apple's offer as described, the real test of the scope of the problem [i.e., whether the antenna design is a deal breaker for actual users] will be how many iPhones are actually returned.
Just about all the testing has shown so far that the addition of a case (or in the Consumer Reports' article, a simple piece of tape) has resolved the signal attenuation. AND you say that you have improved reception when you disable 3G. It sounds to me like the problem isn't with the phone itself, but rather AT&T's network.
I actually think the software upgrade will help you. If they do what they already said they'll do, which is tweak the calibration to report more closely to actual signal strength, you'll at least see that you probably have crappier reception at work than you thought. The not-as-advertised product here, if anything, is the 3G signal strength from AT&T. Hopefully future 700 MHz phones will help with this.
I agree there is a certain amount of 'tweaking' that can be done. For example, we have a new TriQuint chipset - are the drivers that were origionally releaseed optimized? Do we need to put the 3G to sleep during a phone call? Re-calibration of the face detect feature is almost a given.
But, the fact that the bar calculation has been used for EVERY generation of iPhone - and now, mysteriously this is the cause of all of the reception problems - that is utter BS. There are concessions made when you write firmware, I wonder if the firmware places greater emphsis on maintaining 3G than it does on voice. As I mentioned, since I disabled 3G the recpetion problem has been greatly improved. My data suggests a ~10-12dBA improvement.
If the product is a problem for you, take it back, don't buy it, or just shut up about it.
This whinning and stategerizing about what Apple does or doesn't do or it's effect on Apple is Apple's business.
Get a life. Move on. Buy something else and bitch about it's problems.
July 24th is the last day you can return it if you got one on launch.
Rest assured that the software will be fixed long before that.
Field testing is fine, it's a good thing to do. But, any RF Engineer knows that touching an antenna is NEVER a good thing - it introduces parasitical resistance (you can work with that) and a 10-40 pF capacitance (Very Bad). The capacitance issue is what will de-tune your antenna. This is why adding electical tape really has a minimal impact - you need distance between the antenna and your body - just a few millimeters is all it takes.
Apple opted for cosmetics over RF Antenna design. This is an intentional design flaw. A concesssion was made for function vs. pretty. It was a poor decision. You have probably seen the Diagnostics Toolbox in the earlier OS. Why was this removed? They had the software, and they intentionally removed it .... why?
Consider, for the first time ever ..... ever! Apple made an accessory for the iPhone, and what an amazing coincidence that the product doesn't work well without this accessory!! Why, it's almost beyond belief.
Have you gotten your $ 600 worth of bitching yet? As far as the antenna design you don't have a clue about Apple's RF design choices. Tell me why did the original cell phones use external antennas. Oh yes that's right to improve reception. And why did handset manufactures go with internal antennas, yes again to improve aesthetics. Apple has provided a design which meets both requirements performance and aesthetics but in the process may have overlooked the huge variation in human behavior. For example some people can't follow simple instructions like don't run red lights or keep your meaty palms off the antenna gap and therefore they believe the company owes them compensation. It has yet to be proven that the problem is actually the antenna design, it could just as likely be a problem in the receiver which occurs when you intentionally detune the antenna.
There is no fine if you are not satisfied with the iPhone4, Apple will take it back and provide a full refund with no restocking charge. This has been well advertised. So I wonder who among these 2 really has purchased an iPhone??
Given Apple's offer as described, the real test of the scope of the problem [i.e., whether the antenna design is a deal breaker for actual users] will be how many iPhones are actually returned.
I bought my phone through AT&T - as the Apple website was broken for much of the release day, due to the high demand. AT&T states that they have a re-stocking fee of 10%, and the next phone is the phone I am stuck with for the remainder of my 2 yr contract. That's what I have been told.
My point is that Apple delivered a product that does not function as promised. I'm demanding that they fix the problem and deliver what they advertized. My standards are consistent - whether it's a car, a jacket, backpack, TV or a home. Apple was free to advertize any product in any manner - they set the rules, they set the standards. I'm telling them to deliver on what they promised. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm sick and tired of reading this crap. It is time for AI and the rest to move on from this stupid antenna thing.
If the product is a problem for you, take it back, don't buy it, or just shut up about it.
This whinning and stategerizing about what Apple does or doesn't do or it's effect on Apple is Apple's business.
Get a life. Move on. Buy something else and bitch about it's problems.
Hey look everyone! Steve Jobs is posting here under the name Orangeoutsider!
Hi Steve! I just had a pitcher of Kool Aid so I don't mind your arrogance! I love ya and I'll buy whatever you want to sell me!!
Why would you intentionally hide data on how a phone is performing, unless you had data you did not want shared?
The iPhone is an appliance - not some geek toy.
I'm sure the data is available to a proper technician, like Apple's Geniuses. There is no need for any end user to see Apple's data.