When did the phone go on sale again? What's the 30 day mark? Oh right...
Lets take a closer look at return numbers when they start to become relevant.
Considering how widespread the negative flack Apple iPhone 4 got -- even the local station were quick to regurgitate the reports, and the talk shows were not far behind -- I will have crocodile tears for those who still go out and buy the iPhone 4, without testing the phone and asking others about their experience.
Do you have any data to support that the return rate for Apple iPhone products have been much much higher than other mobile phones?
Do you own one? I hope not,judging from the tone of many of your posts, even in this thread alone. Have you even tried one or go to an Apple Store to try one?
Where did you see that? My post came from the Macworld feed and JupiterOne's post came from MobileCrunch.
From Macworld Liveblog:
"Q: Are you considering any changes in the antenna design of future iPhones?
A: We've been kind of preoccupied with this. We're pretty happy with the antenna design than the iPhone 4. It's a better antenna than the 3GS in almost every way. We waved a red flag in front of a bull by putting the "grip me here" design and made it very obvious. So I don't know what our next antenna design will be. Maybe our wizards in the antenna lab will come up with something better. But we're not feeling that this is a giant problem we need to fix."
Yes, he apologized. But he's still in denial about the flaw, because "every phone has weak spots". Well, if the bumper makes your weak spot go away, then a) your statement is untrue and b) why not insulate the antenna at the factory?
No he really didn't ever say "i'm sorry our product has a flaw". He was even asked point-blank if an apology was in order...
"Q: Do you owe people an apology? A: People say it's the coolest phone they have ever had. But we want people to be satisfied, and they can return the company. We want investors who want a long-term view, who trust us in the long run to keep innovating."
So 98.3 per cent of users have yet to return their iPhones? What is wrong with these people? Don't they know how to replicate the infamous "monkey grip" in a low-signal area without a case and get their signal to drop?
It took me seven minutes in the middle of the countryside using both hands clasped tightly around the antenna to lose two bars of signal strength. Proof that this issue isn't all media hype. I don't know who's responsible but I'm getting a free case, so who cares?
What exactly do you want to happen, a new iPhone design? Well it is not going to happen, so you have to choose one of the above options, end of.
They don't have to redesign the phone from the ground up. They just need to separate the skin a little bit from the metal of the antenna. It's not rocket science. Maybe lamination, clear coat, anodizing, etc. etc. I'm sure they can find a way and still preserve the appearance aesthetics or even make them better. Makes a lot more sense than covering up those said aesthetics.
Along with a free case, they should give away a clean diaper.
LMAO
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
That?s a silly assumption. Can you not think of any other reason why one would want a thick ring of rubber around their iPhone? Hint: protection.
I'm all for cases. I just think the free ones should't necessarily go to those who declared that there was never an attenuation issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob
No, I'll just give it to the first person I meet that can demonstrate the problem.
Since launch I have unable to find one....
Well it depends on where you live. Maybe there aren't many iphone 4 owners on the second star. Here in NYC, however, there are Iphones of every generation, all over. So many people bought the 3GS, it's crazy. But the point is, there are more places here that the 4's attenuation can be reproduced, than not--at least from what I could tell in two days of testing.
No he really didn't ever say "i'm sorry our product has a flaw". He was even asked point-blank if an apology was in order...
"Q: Do you owe people an apology? A: People say it's the coolest phone they have ever had. But we want people to be satisfied, and they can return the company. We want investors who want a long-term view, who trust us in the long run to keep innovating."
If you call that an apology, then ok, he did.
Wasn't that in reference to the investors, not users?
10:45 "there are some customers who are having problems.. and i apologize to them.'
10:45: as far as investors go, we want investors who are in apple for the long haul. so for those investors who bought some stock and the price is down $5, I have no apology
Thanks for the info. But I don't see how you could get a real price without bidding an REQ with a complete list of materials. I haven't examined the bumpers but it seems more complicates than just a rubber band.
Thanks for pointing out that you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
It's not something that's no more complicated than a rubber band. It is made up of multiple components made of different materials and manufactured to much tighter tolerances than most rubber bands. It is difficult to make rubber materials to these tolerances.
Actually you don't. The three Apple execs on stage at the press conference all showed their iPhone 4s WITHOUT a bumper. It must work for them although I'm sure AT&T has made sure they get a good cell signal there!
From my experience, in a poor signal area, the bumper would help. In a good signal area, you don't need it. However, even without a bumper, I get better reception in my home than with my old iPhone 1.
My point is... I never needed a case on my iPhone 3G or original iPhone and I could hold it any way I wanted and data never stopped working. I can hold my iPhone 3G as tight as I want in my "low signal" area and it doesn't drop my call and it doesn't stop my data from working. Yes, the bars go down a little bit, but never has it cut my data off or stopped a call. If I need a case for my iPhone 4 to behave the same way, then I feel like I *need* an accessory (ugly one) to make my phone work... that's crap.
A case is not a solution. Not for me anyway.
My iPhone 3G is working great. I don't need to be careful how I hold it.
One more thing... if it was a problem with all previous iPhones, how come nobody was complaining about the bars dropping and data stopping when holding previous generation iPhones?
So someone who has an iPhone that doesn't work is a hater for expecting it to be resolved? Interesting.
He didn't say that! If you have been following these threads, you would know that the haters are those who don't have the iPhone 4, or those who do and don't have an issue, and were looking for a freebie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984
The 30-day return window has already expired for most people who currently have an iPhone 4. Maybe they would have already returned them if it were not for the constant "stay tuned" comments implying a fix. AT&T has a restocking fee regardless and even Steve Jobs didn't really know what happens with your contract.
The first shipments were June 23-24. Today is July 16. It looks to me as if there are 8 days left.
Also, it is unclear, but Steve may have verbally extended the offer to 30 days from today-- we won't know until we see a transcript or video of the press meeting,
But, back to the issue you raised about pond scums, If Steves Jobs, through Apple's testing, have shown that the bumper would help prevent the problem under certain situations, is there a possibility that one who has not experienced the problem before might experienced it too? The answer is: It is always possible. Consumer Report postings indicated so. Initially, they stated that they could not replicate the problem -- until they did more testing.
This can happen to others, and so there is nothing scummy for them availing of the offer proposed by Steve Jobs.
The 30-day return window has already expired for most people who currently have an iPhone 4. Maybe they would have already returned them if it were not for the constant "stay tuned" comments implying a fix. AT&T has a restocking fee regardless and even Steve Jobs didn't really know what happens with your contract.
I'm pretty sure if you go in and ask for the bumper, you'll get one. Same for returns.
-- were waiting for Apple's response before purchasing an iPhone 4
-- have already returned their iPhone 4s, awaiting a hardware change
think of Apple's response.
Are you satisfied, or, at least, mollified?
Will you purchase your first iPhone 4?
will you purchase another iPhone 4 to replace a returned iPhone 4?
.
I was ready to buy the iPhone 4, but then this antenna issue came up. So i waited. I was also waiting for the WHITE model to become available too and I was glad I waited.
Personally, I think this press conference did some good with me. I think they are still hiding behind the whole "every phone has this problem" excuse and if they would have insulated the antenna more, then this wouldn't be a problem. I have the iP3g and tried to hold it the way they do on the APPLE website shows (http://www.apple.com/antenna/) and have not been able to replicate the problem. However, I do appreciate the response from Apple.
I've been saying on this blog that they're (Apple) not stupid, they are probably looking into a fix. And I have also said if so many people are disappointed, the only way to force a response is to return in mass droves. As we've read in the press conference, they track returns and Warranty Calls (AppleCare). If more people had just up and returned their phones, Apple might have responded quicker. But, like many people (as do I) they just bitch and moan on a blog and never contact the proper resources when you have a problem.
Had i have purchased a iP4, I would take the free bumper, but would still be a bit unsatisfied with the fix. I hate cases, they don't work well in pants, unless they are slick plastic. I had an INCase for my ipod classic and hated it. Plus it takes away from the beauty of the Apple design. So i would have taken it, but I would not have been happy about it. I understand that this issue probably affects (i'm guessing here) maybe as much as 10% of users, and a recall would have been way too costly. so I might have returned the phone and waited for a next Gen model. My iP3g works great with the iOS4 update and, besides battery life, the iOS4 has everything I need out of my phone. The new features, like the forward camera, improved 5 megapixel camera, Hi-Res display and the above mentioned battery life are all things that are a nice to have but not a need to have. Plus, I just got laid off yesterday so I have no plans to purchase anything unecessary for the time being.
Gosh guys.. that was a sarcastic remark. Open your eyes! There is no real queue. It's just a sarcastic remark against some people out here.
It was not identified as sarcasm, rather it appeared as a criticism of some, here, who feel the issue is overhyped.
Many posters here, me included, will use sarcasm to poke fun-- if there is a controversial issue being discussed, most will identify it as such, with a smiley or a /sarcasm tag.
Just what did the post contribute to the issue being discussed?
I may have to retract the "This is over IMHO" comment.
I was just watching the live Q&A based on answer to a question, I am not sure if the refunds apply to people that bought their iphone from someone other than Apple.
A question was asked if the refund applies to AT&T and jobs response was "I believe so." Hopefully, everyone will honor the refund (AT&T, Best Buy, etc) but if they don't, there will probably be a lot noise about it.
-kpluck
If you bought your iPhone from a private party, not sure Apple will be able to help you.
You say Jobs is in denial of their being a "design flaw? but then go on to say that they are going to redesign the iPhone 4 to fix this ?design flaw?? Do you not see how that contradicts your statement?
this is the best move apple could make at the current time. In the end, the people that have been saying "if you don't like it, return it" are right. This isn't end of the world. If you want an iphone and are afraid of this problem, there is an apple provided solution. But i don't think apple likes this solution in the long term.
Comments
When did the phone go on sale again? What's the 30 day mark? Oh right...
Lets take a closer look at return numbers when they start to become relevant.
Considering how widespread the negative flack Apple iPhone 4 got -- even the local station were quick to regurgitate the reports, and the talk shows were not far behind -- I will have crocodile tears for those who still go out and buy the iPhone 4, without testing the phone and asking others about their experience.
Do you have any data to support that the return rate for Apple iPhone products have been much much higher than other mobile phones?
Do you own one? I hope not,judging from the tone of many of your posts, even in this thread alone. Have you even tried one or go to an Apple Store to try one?
CGC
Where did you see that? My post came from the Macworld feed and JupiterOne's post came from MobileCrunch.
From Macworld Liveblog:
"Q: Are you considering any changes in the antenna design of future iPhones?
A: We've been kind of preoccupied with this. We're pretty happy with the antenna design than the iPhone 4. It's a better antenna than the 3GS in almost every way. We waved a red flag in front of a bull by putting the "grip me here" design and made it very obvious. So I don't know what our next antenna design will be. Maybe our wizards in the antenna lab will come up with something better. But we're not feeling that this is a giant problem we need to fix."
Yes, he apologized. But he's still in denial about the flaw, because "every phone has weak spots". Well, if the bumper makes your weak spot go away, then a) your statement is untrue and b) why not insulate the antenna at the factory?
No he really didn't ever say "i'm sorry our product has a flaw". He was even asked point-blank if an apology was in order...
"Q: Do you owe people an apology? A: People say it's the coolest phone they have ever had. But we want people to be satisfied, and they can return the company. We want investors who want a long-term view, who trust us in the long run to keep innovating."
If you call that an apology, then ok, he did.
http://www.apple.com/antenna/
It took me seven minutes in the middle of the countryside using both hands clasped tightly around the antenna to lose two bars of signal strength. Proof that this issue isn't all media hype. I don't know who's responsible but I'm getting a free case, so who cares?
What exactly do you want to happen, a new iPhone design? Well it is not going to happen, so you have to choose one of the above options, end of.
They don't have to redesign the phone from the ground up. They just need to separate the skin a little bit from the metal of the antenna. It's not rocket science. Maybe lamination, clear coat, anodizing, etc. etc. I'm sure they can find a way and still preserve the appearance aesthetics or even make them better. Makes a lot more sense than covering up those said aesthetics.
Along with a free case, they should give away a clean diaper.
LMAO
That?s a silly assumption. Can you not think of any other reason why one would want a thick ring of rubber around their iPhone? Hint: protection.
I'm all for cases. I just think the free ones should't necessarily go to those who declared that there was never an attenuation issue.
No, I'll just give it to the first person I meet that can demonstrate the problem.
Since launch I have unable to find one....
Well it depends on where you live. Maybe there aren't many iphone 4 owners on the second star. Here in NYC, however, there are Iphones of every generation, all over. So many people bought the 3GS, it's crazy. But the point is, there are more places here that the 4's attenuation can be reproduced, than not--at least from what I could tell in two days of testing.
No he really didn't ever say "i'm sorry our product has a flaw". He was even asked point-blank if an apology was in order...
"Q: Do you owe people an apology? A: People say it's the coolest phone they have ever had. But we want people to be satisfied, and they can return the company. We want investors who want a long-term view, who trust us in the long run to keep innovating."
If you call that an apology, then ok, he did.
Wasn't that in reference to the investors, not users?
10:45 "there are some customers who are having problems.. and i apologize to them.'
10:45: as far as investors go, we want investors who are in apple for the long haul. so for those investors who bought some stock and the price is down $5, I have no apology
Thanks for the info. But I don't see how you could get a real price without bidding an REQ with a complete list of materials. I haven't examined the bumpers but it seems more complicates than just a rubber band.
Thanks for pointing out that you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
It's not something that's no more complicated than a rubber band. It is made up of multiple components made of different materials and manufactured to much tighter tolerances than most rubber bands. It is difficult to make rubber materials to these tolerances.
Actually you don't. The three Apple execs on stage at the press conference all showed their iPhone 4s WITHOUT a bumper. It must work for them although I'm sure AT&T has made sure they get a good cell signal there!
From my experience, in a poor signal area, the bumper would help. In a good signal area, you don't need it. However, even without a bumper, I get better reception in my home than with my old iPhone 1.
My point is... I never needed a case on my iPhone 3G or original iPhone and I could hold it any way I wanted and data never stopped working. I can hold my iPhone 3G as tight as I want in my "low signal" area and it doesn't drop my call and it doesn't stop my data from working. Yes, the bars go down a little bit, but never has it cut my data off or stopped a call. If I need a case for my iPhone 4 to behave the same way, then I feel like I *need* an accessory (ugly one) to make my phone work... that's crap.
A case is not a solution. Not for me anyway.
My iPhone 3G is working great. I don't need to be careful how I hold it.
One more thing... if it was a problem with all previous iPhones, how come nobody was complaining about the bars dropping and data stopping when holding previous generation iPhones?
So someone who has an iPhone that doesn't work is a hater for expecting it to be resolved? Interesting.
He didn't say that! If you have been following these threads, you would know that the haters are those who don't have the iPhone 4, or those who do and don't have an issue, and were looking for a freebie.
The 30-day return window has already expired for most people who currently have an iPhone 4. Maybe they would have already returned them if it were not for the constant "stay tuned" comments implying a fix. AT&T has a restocking fee regardless and even Steve Jobs didn't really know what happens with your contract.
The first shipments were June 23-24. Today is July 16. It looks to me as if there are 8 days left.
Also, it is unclear, but Steve may have verbally extended the offer to 30 days from today-- we won't know until we see a transcript or video of the press meeting,
.
Where is this queue... I'd like to see it too! Do you have a link, or are you just making an assumption?
.
Gosh guys.. that was a sarcastic remark. Open your eyes! There is no real queue. It's just a sarcastic remark against some people out here.
...
But, back to the issue you raised about pond scums, If Steves Jobs, through Apple's testing, have shown that the bumper would help prevent the problem under certain situations, is there a possibility that one who has not experienced the problem before might experienced it too? The answer is: It is always possible. Consumer Report postings indicated so. Initially, they stated that they could not replicate the problem -- until they did more testing.
This can happen to others, and so there is nothing scummy for them availing of the offer proposed by Steve Jobs.
CGC
Ah, logic!
I'm all for cases. I just think the free ones should't necessarily go to those who declared that there was never an attenuation issue.
I hope you aren't implying that I ever said attenuation doesn't occur when you block RF or that no iPhones had any issues.
The 30-day return window has already expired for most people who currently have an iPhone 4. Maybe they would have already returned them if it were not for the constant "stay tuned" comments implying a fix. AT&T has a restocking fee regardless and even Steve Jobs didn't really know what happens with your contract.
I'm pretty sure if you go in and ask for the bumper, you'll get one. Same for returns.
.
I am interested to know what those who:
-- were experiencing real problems
-- were waiting for Apple's response before purchasing an iPhone 4
-- have already returned their iPhone 4s, awaiting a hardware change
think of Apple's response.
Are you satisfied, or, at least, mollified?
Will you purchase your first iPhone 4?
will you purchase another iPhone 4 to replace a returned iPhone 4?
.
I was ready to buy the iPhone 4, but then this antenna issue came up. So i waited. I was also waiting for the WHITE model to become available too and I was glad I waited.
Personally, I think this press conference did some good with me. I think they are still hiding behind the whole "every phone has this problem" excuse and if they would have insulated the antenna more, then this wouldn't be a problem. I have the iP3g and tried to hold it the way they do on the APPLE website shows (http://www.apple.com/antenna/) and have not been able to replicate the problem. However, I do appreciate the response from Apple.
I've been saying on this blog that they're (Apple) not stupid, they are probably looking into a fix. And I have also said if so many people are disappointed, the only way to force a response is to return in mass droves. As we've read in the press conference, they track returns and Warranty Calls (AppleCare). If more people had just up and returned their phones, Apple might have responded quicker. But, like many people (as do I) they just bitch and moan on a blog and never contact the proper resources when you have a problem.
Had i have purchased a iP4, I would take the free bumper, but would still be a bit unsatisfied with the fix. I hate cases, they don't work well in pants, unless they are slick plastic. I had an INCase for my ipod classic and hated it. Plus it takes away from the beauty of the Apple design. So i would have taken it, but I would not have been happy about it. I understand that this issue probably affects (i'm guessing here) maybe as much as 10% of users, and a recall would have been way too costly. so I might have returned the phone and waited for a next Gen model. My iP3g works great with the iOS4 update and, besides battery life, the iOS4 has everything I need out of my phone. The new features, like the forward camera, improved 5 megapixel camera, Hi-Res display and the above mentioned battery life are all things that are a nice to have but not a need to have. Plus, I just got laid off yesterday so I have no plans to purchase anything unecessary for the time being.
Gosh guys.. that was a sarcastic remark. Open your eyes! There is no real queue. It's just a sarcastic remark against some people out here.
It was not identified as sarcasm, rather it appeared as a criticism of some, here, who feel the issue is overhyped.
Many posters here, me included, will use sarcasm to poke fun-- if there is a controversial issue being discussed, most will identify it as such, with a smiley or a /sarcasm tag.
Just what did the post contribute to the issue being discussed?
.
I may have to retract the "This is over IMHO" comment.
I was just watching the live Q&A based on answer to a question, I am not sure if the refunds apply to people that bought their iphone from someone other than Apple.
A question was asked if the refund applies to AT&T and jobs response was "I believe so." Hopefully, everyone will honor the refund (AT&T, Best Buy, etc) but if they don't, there will probably be a lot noise about it.
-kpluck
If you bought your iPhone from a private party, not sure Apple will be able to help you.
You say Jobs is in denial of their being a "design flaw? but then go on to say that they are going to redesign the iPhone 4 to fix this ?design flaw?? Do you not see how that contradicts your statement?
I simply expect them to come out of their denial.
this is the best move apple could make at the current time. In the end, the people that have been saying "if you don't like it, return it" are right. This isn't end of the world. If you want an iphone and are afraid of this problem, there is an apple provided solution. But i don't think apple likes this solution in the long term.
+++ qft
.