Try harder. I'm not sure what you're hoping for, but a redesign for a hyped antenna issue is not in the cards. Even AI is repeating the same news.
I wouldn't expect a complete redesign of the phone, but I think a design tweak of the antenna is quite possible. There was plenty of wiggle room left by the comments given during Q&A...
Quote:
Q: On the free bumpers. That goes until Sept. 30th; is that because by Sept. 30th, people should just know the phone has issues?
A: No, that just gives us time to reexamine. Maybe people will be less focused on this problem; maybe we'll have a better idea.
by Greg Kumparak at 1:53 PM
Quote:
...All of this hard data, we got that 3 days ago. In a few more weeks, we'll have even more data that'll help us hone in on this problem.
by Greg Kumparak at 1:59 PM
Quote:
Q: Can you reiterate this point about the hardware redesign? Is there a hardware redesign that is possible in this generation that can get rid of the problem?
A: What i'm saying is that you can go on the web and find pictures of Nokia phones that have stickers on the back that say "Don't touch here! Don't cover here with your hand!". You can go on youtube and find these things. Right now, the state of the art of the entire industry is that no one has solved this problem. Would I love apple to be the first? Yes. Can we make our situation better? Maybe, we'll see.
You do realize that AI is using the same news from the same bloggers? Any blogger should be taken with a grain of salt. That said, with such a low instance of reported complaints, it doesn't make financial sense to redesign. Especially when the same issue can be reproduced (5 bars to 1) on any number of non-Apple phones.
1) Bars mean nothing without the numbers. Why do you think the omitted the most relevant and import numbers?
2) After Sept 30, either the keep including cases, give those buyers nothing or make a change to the phone. I am betting on a change, being a coating, to the antenna. This might take weeks to ramp up in the factories, so for now, a free case.
3) If Apple really thought the drop in bars on the phones they showed was identical to the iPhone in cause, they would know that then the bumper does nothing. Since the other phones have a built in bumper (their shell) and still show the drop in bars was tightly squeezed.
4) Nothing the mentioned today really addressed the spot, other than admitting it was visible. It is more than visible. It is accessible. that is what a bumper actually corrects for. This is also what a coating on the antennas would correct for.
This is the best move Apple could make at the current time. In the end, the people that have been saying "if you don't like it, return it" are right. This isn't end of the world. If you want an iPhone and are afraid of this problem, there is an Apple provided solution. But I don't think Apple likes this solution in the long term.
If I buy a product and it does not do what I want or it is faulty and I have the chance for a full refund, I don't keep it and moan about it, I return it and move on.
Why keep a product that you don't like or want?
Some would say that was "cutting of your nose to spite your face".
It a perfectly reasonable offer from Apple:
1. If you are not 100% happy with the product we will give a 100% refund and you can get out of your contract, can't really do more than that.
2. If you are happy on the whole but feel a case would help then they will give you a case for free, no questions asked.
3. You are happy as you are, no case or return required. Great.
What exactly do you want to happen, a new iPhone design? Well it is not going to happen, so you have to choose one of the above options, end of.
Do you even read what you were replying to?
All I said was that "If you don't like the phone, return it" is the same as "If you don't like the discussion, don't read it"... simply pointing out the irony of people whining about whining when they are perfectly capable of simply not reading the discussion.
For the record though, i'm not saying either of those things. It is reasonable for people to encourage or discourage whatever behavior they like or dislike.
Saying: "If you don't like the phone it, return it".
Is the same as saying: "If you don't like the discussion, don't read it".
It?s like with anything in life. If you don?t like it you don?t it. Most of us are pragmatic about the issue. We have no problem with the forum or with those who wish to return any item because it doesn?t suit their needs, it?s the entitlement some are expressing that is pathetic and annoying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Which was that aluminum one with the optional carbon fiber back panel you posted the link to a while back?
Nah, just a basic black Bumper. I don?t think those aluminium cases are out yet, but I?d never spend that much on a case, especially one i would be as afraid to scuff as the iPhone.
I can't believe that they are trying to appease the haters. That never works, and they will continue to whine and whine, even while enjoying the heck out of their IP4 and their free case.
I would wager more money that a vast majority of those who continually whine in the recent iPhone 4 threads don't even own one.
I had a bumper case from the start and had dropped calls with the case but I really think something else is doing it like checking for email or something to that effect.!!
I'm curious how you came to that price. Is that including packing and shipping? What about R&D. Or are you just quoting a "dock price".
Could you list your experience in manufacturing molded consumer items in China? Or perhaps here in the U.S. What other items have you worked on?
Not sure about the first poster, but I deal with quotes from over-seas regularly, and $1.00 or $2.00 is not far off. We're talking about MILLIONS of these things, being made OVER-SEAS were things ARE produced much cheaper (which is why all of our jobs are going over there). Besides which, $1, 42, or $3.00 ? it's a hell of a lot cheaper then a re-call!
Seriously. As much as I think all the people complaining are useless whiners, those that *don't* think there is a problem (like me) who then turn around and get their free bumper are lower than pond scum IMO.
You think so highly of your own opinion judging the motivations of others. If I have to be unkind, I would say, it was because you did not make the correct prediction about Apple giving away the bumper for free. In fact, it went even further -- return the phone, no restocking fee, AT&T will refund with no penalty.
But, back to the issue you raised about pond scums, If Steves Jobs, through Apple's testing, have shown that the bumper would help prevent the problem under certain situations, is there a possibility that one who has not experienced the problem before might experienced it too? The answer is: It is always possible. Consumer Report postings indicated so. Initially, they stated that they could not replicate the problem -- until they did more testing.
This can happen to others, and so there is nothing scummy for them availing of the offer proposed by Steve Jobs.
Nah, just a basic black Bumper. I don?t think those aluminium cases are out yet, but I?d never spend that much on a case, especially one i would be as afraid to scuff as the iPhone.
Sorry, poorly worded question, was wondering if you still had the link or remembered the name.
The 'right thing' would have been NOT to release/re-enginner a device for which, "We knew that you could see bars drop on the phone when you hold it in a certain way..." - Steve Jobs
It's That Simple - IMO
So explain how Apple is supposed to override the laws of physics. EVERY phone loses some signal when you place your hand in front of it. EVERY phone drops some calls. Just how is Apple supposed to get around those facts? If you have some magical way to circumvent electromagnetism laws, feel free to publish it and win the Nobel prize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
So, JR, you going to opt for the free bumpers? Even though you don't need one, there is not problem and you said they shouldn't? Going to take advantage?
Probably not. I already have a case and don't think I'd like the bumper any more. Not that it really matters. If Apple wants to give away free cases as a PR stunt, why shouldn't I be able to take advantage of the offer?
Maybe. I think by Aug/Sept, they will be ramping up their lines to add a new coating to the antenna. Like Steve said, they can't get around physics. And physics says that touching the antenna or touching both will cause more of a problem than wrapping your hand around the phone.
If they really thought that simply holding the phone in that way caused the same problem it caused on other phones, then they know that a bumper doesn't change anything. The Blackberry and the other phones he showed already have a build in bumper...the shell of the phone itself. They know that the issue is touching it. They will adjust it accordingly, but it will take weeks to ramp up. So, free bumpers till sept.
I think that, at some point, Apple will change the physical design of the antenna. One obvious [to me] fix would be to move the antenna separators on both sides to the bottom of the case. That way you would have to cover up the mic/speaker to bridge the gap.
If I take off my bumper I can replicate the problem 100%, but I'm not moaning I love the phine and the bumper stops the issue.
Maybe I have one of the small sample with problems or maybe they all have the issue in the right conditions. Who knows.
I'm keeping my iPhone 4, and I will be getting my Bumper refund thank you Apple.
Just for the record, I am really sorry if you have had problems. I wasn't attempting to poor salt in anyone's wound. Just stating a simple fact.
But then again, I never had problems with my 3G, or 3Gs for that matter. I do, however, want to send a copy of the Eagles' "Get Over It" to all those that jumped on the bandwagon and spewed FUD for the past few weeks, when most don't even own an iPhone, let alone an iPhone 4.
It’s like with anything in life. If you don’t like it you don’t it. Most of us are pragmatic about the issue. We have no problem with the forum or with those who wish to return any item because it doesn’t suit their needs, it’s the entitlement some are expressing that is pathetic and annoying.
Just as annoying as being told to shut up after merely posting one's experience with the iPhone4.
But because you don't believe the problem is real, it seems that you're ok with people being told to shut up. Otherwise you'd be just as outraged at that kind of behavior. Perhaps more outraged. Instead, you've consistently harped on idiots from one side of the argument but not idiots from the other side of the argument.
Come on solipsism, i know you can be more level-headed than that.
Not sure about the first poster, but I deal with quotes from over-seas regularly, and $1.00 or $2.00 is not far off. We're talking about MILLIONS of these things, being made OVER-SEAS were things ARE produced much cheaper (which is why all of our jobs are going over there). Besides which, $1, 42, or $3.00 ? it's a hell of a lot cheaper then a re-call!
Skip
Thanks for the info. But I don't see how you could get a real price without bidding an REQ with a complete list of materials. I haven't examined the bumpers but it seems more complicates than just a rubber band.
Yes, he apologized. But he's still in denial about the flaw, because "every phone has weak spots?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
And you don?t think this is true despite the multitude of videos.
What proof do you have that there is a [design] flaw, which I assume you to mean it would require a total recall of each and every iPhone 4 sold?
No, the fact that any phone has *some* attentuation when held certain ways is true enough. Some may even have as much as the iP4 if held a certain way. However, Jobs is still in denial, and the proof is in his very own statements and actions.
They are providing a bumper to "fix" the problem. That means they already have the method and means of mitigating the serious "weak spot" on this particular phone. If the problem can be made to go away by insulating the antenna from the hand, then it would seem logical that such insulation should be part of the design of the phone. Sure, the iphone will still suffer some attenuation based on any number of factors including grip. But it will not suffer the extreme attenuation that some people now get when holding in what seems to them to be a natural way.
If the problem is caused by skin contact on the antenna, then you design so that skin does not directly contact the antenna. It's that simple. Pointing at other cellphones is a cop-out. Saying it's a problem that PhD's can't figure out is disingenuous. They can't prevent all attenuation, but they can certainly fix this issue of bridging the antennas.
Does this mean I expect a total recall?
I think that Apple will revise the design so that an accessory is not needed to mitigate the design flaw. And when those revised phones are available, owners of the current design should have the option to return their phone for a free upgrade. The return phones could be refurbished and upgraded, depending on what the fix is. Heck, Apple may still be hoping they can rectify with software. If they can, then more power to them. Either way, the free case is a temporary measure, imho. It mitigates the problem, but doesn't fulfill the promise of the device. Some people don't like cases. I, for one, have a pouch made by SFBAGS.COM. It holds my phone tight, but when I get a call, I can pull out the phone, and hold it, without a case. Apple can't have it both ways -- on one hand justifiably proud of the form and appearance of the phone, and on the other hand insisting that users need to wrap it in something for it to function fully.
The 30-day return window has already expired for most people who currently have an iPhone 4. Maybe they would have already returned them if it were not for the constant "stay tuned" comments implying a fix. AT&T has a restocking fee regardless and even Steve Jobs didn't really know what happens with your contract.
I know date arithmetic can be tricky, but yours is off, by about a week. July 23rd would be the 30th day from the release date of the iPhone 4, June 24th, including June 24th, and the contract would be canceled by the return. And it has been said over and over again that there will be no restocking fee,
Comments
Try harder. I'm not sure what you're hoping for, but a redesign for a hyped antenna issue is not in the cards. Even AI is repeating the same news.
I wouldn't expect a complete redesign of the phone, but I think a design tweak of the antenna is quite possible. There was plenty of wiggle room left by the comments given during Q&A...
Q: On the free bumpers. That goes until Sept. 30th; is that because by Sept. 30th, people should just know the phone has issues?
A: No, that just gives us time to reexamine. Maybe people will be less focused on this problem; maybe we'll have a better idea.
by Greg Kumparak at 1:53 PM
...All of this hard data, we got that 3 days ago. In a few more weeks, we'll have even more data that'll help us hone in on this problem.
by Greg Kumparak at 1:59 PM
Q: Can you reiterate this point about the hardware redesign? Is there a hardware redesign that is possible in this generation that can get rid of the problem?
A: What i'm saying is that you can go on the web and find pictures of Nokia phones that have stickers on the back that say "Don't touch here! Don't cover here with your hand!". You can go on youtube and find these things. Right now, the state of the art of the entire industry is that no one has solved this problem. Would I love apple to be the first? Yes. Can we make our situation better? Maybe, we'll see.
by Greg Kumparak at 2:04 PM
You do realize that AI is using the same news from the same bloggers? Any blogger should be taken with a grain of salt. That said, with such a low instance of reported complaints, it doesn't make financial sense to redesign. Especially when the same issue can be reproduced (5 bars to 1) on any number of non-Apple phones.
1) Bars mean nothing without the numbers. Why do you think the omitted the most relevant and import numbers?
2) After Sept 30, either the keep including cases, give those buyers nothing or make a change to the phone. I am betting on a change, being a coating, to the antenna. This might take weeks to ramp up in the factories, so for now, a free case.
3) If Apple really thought the drop in bars on the phones they showed was identical to the iPhone in cause, they would know that then the bumper does nothing. Since the other phones have a built in bumper (their shell) and still show the drop in bars was tightly squeezed.
4) Nothing the mentioned today really addressed the spot, other than admitting it was visible. It is more than visible. It is accessible. that is what a bumper actually corrects for. This is also what a coating on the antennas would correct for.
This is the best move Apple could make at the current time. In the end, the people that have been saying "if you don't like it, return it" are right. This isn't end of the world. If you want an iPhone and are afraid of this problem, there is an Apple provided solution. But I don't think Apple likes this solution in the long term.
No it is not. It is a sensible suggestion.
If I buy a product and it does not do what I want or it is faulty and I have the chance for a full refund, I don't keep it and moan about it, I return it and move on.
Why keep a product that you don't like or want?
Some would say that was "cutting of your nose to spite your face".
It a perfectly reasonable offer from Apple:
1. If you are not 100% happy with the product we will give a 100% refund and you can get out of your contract, can't really do more than that.
2. If you are happy on the whole but feel a case would help then they will give you a case for free, no questions asked.
3. You are happy as you are, no case or return required. Great.
What exactly do you want to happen, a new iPhone design? Well it is not going to happen, so you have to choose one of the above options, end of.
Do you even read what you were replying to?
All I said was that "If you don't like the phone, return it" is the same as "If you don't like the discussion, don't read it"... simply pointing out the irony of people whining about whining when they are perfectly capable of simply not reading the discussion.
For the record though, i'm not saying either of those things. It is reasonable for people to encourage or discourage whatever behavior they like or dislike.
Just close this browser window and go away.
But seriously.
Saying: "If you don't like the phone it, return it".
Is the same as saying: "If you don't like the discussion, don't read it".
It?s like with anything in life. If you don?t like it you don?t it. Most of us are pragmatic about the issue. We have no problem with the forum or with those who wish to return any item because it doesn?t suit their needs, it?s the entitlement some are expressing that is pathetic and annoying.
Which was that aluminum one with the optional carbon fiber back panel you posted the link to a while back?
Nah, just a basic black Bumper. I don?t think those aluminium cases are out yet, but I?d never spend that much on a case, especially one i would be as afraid to scuff as the iPhone.
So no, I won't be getting one of these free cases.
Get one anyways. When you sell your phone, you can include it for free.
I can't believe that they are trying to appease the haters. That never works, and they will continue to whine and whine, even while enjoying the heck out of their IP4 and their free case.
I would wager more money that a vast majority of those who continually whine in the recent iPhone 4 threads don't even own one.
Best Post EVER!!!!!!
http://www.apple.com/apple-events/july-2010/
I'm curious how you came to that price. Is that including packing and shipping? What about R&D. Or are you just quoting a "dock price".
Could you list your experience in manufacturing molded consumer items in China? Or perhaps here in the U.S. What other items have you worked on?
Not sure about the first poster, but I deal with quotes from over-seas regularly, and $1.00 or $2.00 is not far off. We're talking about MILLIONS of these things, being made OVER-SEAS were things ARE produced much cheaper (which is why all of our jobs are going over there). Besides which, $1, 42, or $3.00 ? it's a hell of a lot cheaper then a re-call!
Skip
I
Seriously. As much as I think all the people complaining are useless whiners, those that *don't* think there is a problem (like me) who then turn around and get their free bumper are lower than pond scum IMO.
You think so highly of your own opinion judging the motivations of others. If I have to be unkind, I would say, it was because you did not make the correct prediction about Apple giving away the bumper for free. In fact, it went even further -- return the phone, no restocking fee, AT&T will refund with no penalty.
But, back to the issue you raised about pond scums, If Steves Jobs, through Apple's testing, have shown that the bumper would help prevent the problem under certain situations, is there a possibility that one who has not experienced the problem before might experienced it too? The answer is: It is always possible. Consumer Report postings indicated so. Initially, they stated that they could not replicate the problem -- until they did more testing.
This can happen to others, and so there is nothing scummy for them availing of the offer proposed by Steve Jobs.
CGC
Nah, just a basic black Bumper. I don?t think those aluminium cases are out yet, but I?d never spend that much on a case, especially one i would be as afraid to scuff as the iPhone.
Sorry, poorly worded question, was wondering if you still had the link or remembered the name.
The 'right thing' would have been NOT to release/re-enginner a device for which, "We knew that you could see bars drop on the phone when you hold it in a certain way..." - Steve Jobs
It's That Simple - IMO
So explain how Apple is supposed to override the laws of physics. EVERY phone loses some signal when you place your hand in front of it. EVERY phone drops some calls. Just how is Apple supposed to get around those facts? If you have some magical way to circumvent electromagnetism laws, feel free to publish it and win the Nobel prize.
So, JR, you going to opt for the free bumpers? Even though you don't need one, there is not problem and you said they shouldn't? Going to take advantage?
Probably not. I already have a case and don't think I'd like the bumper any more. Not that it really matters. If Apple wants to give away free cases as a PR stunt, why shouldn't I be able to take advantage of the offer?
Maybe. I think by Aug/Sept, they will be ramping up their lines to add a new coating to the antenna. Like Steve said, they can't get around physics. And physics says that touching the antenna or touching both will cause more of a problem than wrapping your hand around the phone.
If they really thought that simply holding the phone in that way caused the same problem it caused on other phones, then they know that a bumper doesn't change anything. The Blackberry and the other phones he showed already have a build in bumper...the shell of the phone itself. They know that the issue is touching it. They will adjust it accordingly, but it will take weeks to ramp up. So, free bumpers till sept.
I think that, at some point, Apple will change the physical design of the antenna. One obvious [to me] fix would be to move the antenna separators on both sides to the bottom of the case. That way you would have to cover up the mic/speaker to bridge the gap.
.
If I take off my bumper I can replicate the problem 100%, but I'm not moaning I love the phine and the bumper stops the issue.
Maybe I have one of the small sample with problems or maybe they all have the issue in the right conditions. Who knows.
I'm keeping my iPhone 4, and I will be getting my Bumper refund thank you Apple.
Just for the record, I am really sorry if you have had problems. I wasn't attempting to poor salt in anyone's wound. Just stating a simple fact.
But then again, I never had problems with my 3G, or 3Gs for that matter. I do, however, want to send a copy of the Eagles' "Get Over It" to all those that jumped on the bandwagon and spewed FUD for the past few weeks, when most don't even own an iPhone, let alone an iPhone 4.
It’s like with anything in life. If you don’t like it you don’t it. Most of us are pragmatic about the issue. We have no problem with the forum or with those who wish to return any item because it doesn’t suit their needs, it’s the entitlement some are expressing that is pathetic and annoying.
Just as annoying as being told to shut up after merely posting one's experience with the iPhone4.
But because you don't believe the problem is real, it seems that you're ok with people being told to shut up. Otherwise you'd be just as outraged at that kind of behavior. Perhaps more outraged. Instead, you've consistently harped on idiots from one side of the argument but not idiots from the other side of the argument.
Come on solipsism, i know you can be more level-headed than that.
Not sure about the first poster, but I deal with quotes from over-seas regularly, and $1.00 or $2.00 is not far off. We're talking about MILLIONS of these things, being made OVER-SEAS were things ARE produced much cheaper (which is why all of our jobs are going over there). Besides which, $1, 42, or $3.00 ? it's a hell of a lot cheaper then a re-call!
Skip
Thanks for the info. But I don't see how you could get a real price without bidding an REQ with a complete list of materials. I haven't examined the bumpers but it seems more complicates than just a rubber band.
Yes, he apologized. But he's still in denial about the flaw, because "every phone has weak spots?.
And you don?t think this is true despite the multitude of videos.
What proof do you have that there is a [design] flaw, which I assume you to mean it would require a total recall of each and every iPhone 4 sold?
No, the fact that any phone has *some* attentuation when held certain ways is true enough. Some may even have as much as the iP4 if held a certain way. However, Jobs is still in denial, and the proof is in his very own statements and actions.
They are providing a bumper to "fix" the problem. That means they already have the method and means of mitigating the serious "weak spot" on this particular phone. If the problem can be made to go away by insulating the antenna from the hand, then it would seem logical that such insulation should be part of the design of the phone. Sure, the iphone will still suffer some attenuation based on any number of factors including grip. But it will not suffer the extreme attenuation that some people now get when holding in what seems to them to be a natural way.
If the problem is caused by skin contact on the antenna, then you design so that skin does not directly contact the antenna. It's that simple. Pointing at other cellphones is a cop-out. Saying it's a problem that PhD's can't figure out is disingenuous. They can't prevent all attenuation, but they can certainly fix this issue of bridging the antennas.
Does this mean I expect a total recall?
I think that Apple will revise the design so that an accessory is not needed to mitigate the design flaw. And when those revised phones are available, owners of the current design should have the option to return their phone for a free upgrade. The return phones could be refurbished and upgraded, depending on what the fix is. Heck, Apple may still be hoping they can rectify with software. If they can, then more power to them. Either way, the free case is a temporary measure, imho. It mitigates the problem, but doesn't fulfill the promise of the device. Some people don't like cases. I, for one, have a pouch made by SFBAGS.COM. It holds my phone tight, but when I get a call, I can pull out the phone, and hold it, without a case. Apple can't have it both ways -- on one hand justifiably proud of the form and appearance of the phone, and on the other hand insisting that users need to wrap it in something for it to function fully.
The 30-day return window has already expired for most people who currently have an iPhone 4. Maybe they would have already returned them if it were not for the constant "stay tuned" comments implying a fix. AT&T has a restocking fee regardless and even Steve Jobs didn't really know what happens with your contract.
I know date arithmetic can be tricky, but yours is off, by about a week. July 23rd would be the 30th day from the release date of the iPhone 4, June 24th, including June 24th, and the contract would be canceled by the return. And it has been said over and over again that there will be no restocking fee,
It was said at the press conference that a web site will be up next week and you can make your selection there.
Ah, but the OP called people hypocrites for claiming no iP4 problems and being on the queue to receive a free case.
Certainly he was not lying-- so I'd like him to post a link to the queue, so I, too, can denigrate the hypocrites.
.