No, Snell probably wasn't quoting literally, as he was probably just trying to get things out quickly without missing anything important. That's why I qualified the quote as having come through Snell. I interpret everything that comes directly from Apple very carefully. I appreciate your clarification.
As someone else here noted, AppleCare isn't really a place that comes to my mind to call about design flaws. I went to an Apple store, spoke with a manager about the problem, and reasonably complained about Apple's poor response (the holding it wrong response).
No, Snell probably wasn't quoting literally, as he was probably just trying to get things out quickly without missing anything important. That's why I qualified the quote as having come through Snell. I interpret everything that comes directly from Apple very carefully. I appreciate your clarification.
As someone else here noted, AppleCare isn't really a place that comes to my mind to call about design flaws. I went to an Apple store, spoke with a manager about the problem, and reasonably complained about Apple's poor response (the holding it wrong response).
What I'm amazed at is how no news outlet brought this up during Q&A. How is that not the first followup question? "You talk about AppleCare phone support, but not about in-store customers, do you have a sense of how many people have come to the store to complain?"
My impression was the the story was true, but Steve had to emphatically deny it because of the threat of lawsuits for knowingly shipping a defective product.
What did you expect him to say? "Yeah it's true, but... who cares?"
As quoted by Jason Snell, the 0.55% figure of AppleCare calls with an "antenna issue" applies to "all iPhone customers", not just iPhone 4 customers. The figure also omits AppleCare calls about reception or anything near.
Quote:
Originally Posted by webmail
Steve Jobs is full of crap.
OF COURSE HE KNEW AND WAS WARNED IN ADVANCED.
He brags on stage that Apple owned and bought a $100 million dollar antenna testing facility during iphone design. Consumer reports used a $10,000 testing facility and found the problem immediately. Steve says they did thousands of tests, and it was only on a small percentage, and that they should have said something during the keynote.
OF COURSE THEY KNEW IN ADVANCE, and damn right that engineer told him?
You can't tell people you had a $100million dollar testing facility but expect them to believe you were so incompetent that you NEVER ONCE EVER SAW THIS ANTENNA ISSUE in advance, because IF THAT IS THE TRUTH?Then Apple doesn't belong in the cellphone business.
And anyway steve jobs refuted that when he said, we knew in advance that all smart phones do this?obviously it was discussed quite a bit BEFORE the launch and they were hoping consumers wouldn't figure it out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nalts
That was a little silly. I'm one of many who had some issues, but knew better than to waste my time on hold. And maybe 99 percent tried calling but the phone dropped while they were on hold.
Here's my parody of both sides of this silly story...
What I'm amazed at is how no news outlet brought this up during Q&A. How is that not the first followup question? "You talk about AppleCare phone support, but not about in-store customers, do you have a sense of how many people have come to the store to complain?"
From Jason Snell's MacWorld Live blog of the Press Conference:
11:08
Jason Snell: Q about returns at Apple Stores. A: Cook says there were fewer than 3GS.
How many of those scientists to too scared to tell Steve anything other than what he wants to hear?
Worst case from this is that if iPhone problems persist, Steve...and Apple could loose credibility with consumers.
Andy Hertzfeld had posted stories about Jobs in the 1980s when he was at his managerial worst, and engineers aren't "afraid" of Jobs. He's stubborn, but so are the engineers. And it's the engineers who actually create the thing.
My impression was the the story was true, but Steve had to emphatically deny it because of the threat of lawsuits for knowingly shipping a defective product.
What did you expect him to say? "Yeah it's true, but... who cares?"
Yeah, the only way we're gonna find out whether this story was true is if the lawsuit filed a few weeks ago gains class action status, and then subsequently goes to trial. You can bet that Ruben Caballero and Steve Jobs will be deposed multiple times, and will probably be subpoenaed to testify at trial. Discovery requests will also demand all internal correspondence dealing with the i4 antenna design.
Of course, the likeliness of that suit going to trial is very small. If it gains class action status, AAPL will settle out of court, every iPhone 4 owner will get a $30 check in the mail, and the attorneys for the plaintiffs will walk away with new Ferraris and huge bonuses from their law firms.
This kind of comments make me want to go kill myself...
As I said before millions of times...
THERE. IS. NO. ANTENNA. DESIGN. FLAW. SHUT THE FRACK UP AND STOP FUELING THIS GIZMODO DRIVEL.
GODDAMIT man. GODDAMIT...
I feel your pain.
Sadly, most people are idiots. Using a standard Stanford-Binet IQ test measure, only one half of one percent of the population can really be considered "smart," and even smart people can fool themselves.
The good news is that now we know the facts, we can identify the absolutely batshit insane types by whether they still stick to the conspiracy issues in spite of the facts. You now have to believe that not only is there a problem, there is a conspiracy to lie about it and cover it up by Apple, because ... you know, that makes more sense than the idea that they might want to produce good, working products to sell.
... Of course, the likeliness of that suit going to trial is very small. If it gains class action status, AAPL will settle out of court, every iPhone 4 owner will get a $30 check in the mail, and the attorneys for the plaintiffs will walk away with new Ferraris and huge bonuses from their law firms.
It will never go to trial.
For a class action suit like this to be approved, they have to prove a flaw in the product and they have to accept any reasonable "fix" the company provides. It's not carte blanche to suck money out of the company. It also has to be the case that you are "stuck" with the product (it's late in the cycle and it can't be returned).
With this press conference alone, Apple seems to have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that:
- there is no flaw (relative to other phones)
- iPhone 4 actually has better reception than any other phone.
- anyone that doesn't like it can bring it back for a full refund
- they will give out a free "fix" (case) to anyone that asks
They even got the other case manufacturers onboard so the "suffering" have a choice of cases, and got the carriers to promise not to screw people over the contract or charge fees for the change.
No judge in their right mind will let the class action suit even begin to move forward.
What I'm amazed at is how no news outlet brought this up during Q&A. How is that not the first followup question? "You talk about AppleCare phone support, but not about in-store customers, do you have a sense of how many people have come to the store to complain?"
They said that returns to the Apple Store were so minimal they were almost non measurable. If people were that upset about the antenna issue they could have returned it.
He brags on stage that Apple owned and bought a $100 million dollar antenna testing facility during iphone design. Consumer reports used a $10,000 testing facility and found the problem immediately. Steve says they did thousands of tests, and it was only on a small percentage, and that they should have said something during the keynote.
OF COURSE THEY KNEW IN ADVANCE, and damn right that engineer told him?
You can't tell people you had a $100million dollar testing facility but expect them to believe you were so incompetent that you NEVER ONCE EVER SAW THIS ANTENNA ISSUE in advance, because IF THAT IS THE TRUTH?Then Apple doesn't belong in the cellphone business.
And anyway steve jobs refuted that when he said, we knew in advance that all smart phones do this?obviously it was discussed quite a bit BEFORE the launch and they were hoping consumers wouldn't figure it out?
Sure, they may have seen and registered the issue but they made a calculated risk to release the phone to give it a bigger battery and keep the aesthetics intact. I suspect the next iteration will include a coating on the antenna as long as it looks good and is cheaper than a bumper.
So you and Jason Snell are both wrong? At the press conference there was a giant screen that said "0.55% Percent of all iPhone 4 users who have called about antenna or reception"
how many didn't bother to call? It's well known the numbers of people who actually call to complain about issue such as this is much lower than those who actually have it.
A whole bunch of pomp and ceremony, our phone is as bad as their phone's reception, blah blah blah.
The reason Apple was crucified in the media is because look at it, the we're the king of the castle and yer the dirty rascal kind of thing you get from the apple crowd (frig I'm in it I can see it) makes it even more a target.
The more smug the grins, the more people want to wipe them. Issue or no issue, that all it really is.
Comments
So you and Jason Snell are both wrong?
No, Snell probably wasn't quoting literally, as he was probably just trying to get things out quickly without missing anything important. That's why I qualified the quote as having come through Snell. I interpret everything that comes directly from Apple very carefully. I appreciate your clarification.
As someone else here noted, AppleCare isn't really a place that comes to my mind to call about design flaws. I went to an Apple store, spoke with a manager about the problem, and reasonably complained about Apple's poor response (the holding it wrong response).
No, Snell probably wasn't quoting literally, as he was probably just trying to get things out quickly without missing anything important. That's why I qualified the quote as having come through Snell. I interpret everything that comes directly from Apple very carefully. I appreciate your clarification.
As someone else here noted, AppleCare isn't really a place that comes to my mind to call about design flaws. I went to an Apple store, spoke with a manager about the problem, and reasonably complained about Apple's poor response (the holding it wrong response).
What I'm amazed at is how no news outlet brought this up during Q&A. How is that not the first followup question? "You talk about AppleCare phone support, but not about in-store customers, do you have a sense of how many people have come to the store to complain?"
He will have to be severely disciplined. Mistress Ballmer, do you have your whip handy?! (Stay tuned to this station - video at 10.)
Ballmer would throw a chair in a sweaty orgy of words.
... or that he's not kidding.
My impression was the the story was true, but Steve had to emphatically deny it because of the threat of lawsuits for knowingly shipping a defective product.
What did you expect him to say? "Yeah it's true, but... who cares?"
As quoted by Jason Snell, the 0.55% figure of AppleCare calls with an "antenna issue" applies to "all iPhone customers", not just iPhone 4 customers. The figure also omits AppleCare calls about reception or anything near.
Steve Jobs is full of crap.
OF COURSE HE KNEW AND WAS WARNED IN ADVANCED.
He brags on stage that Apple owned and bought a $100 million dollar antenna testing facility during iphone design. Consumer reports used a $10,000 testing facility and found the problem immediately. Steve says they did thousands of tests, and it was only on a small percentage, and that they should have said something during the keynote.
OF COURSE THEY KNEW IN ADVANCE, and damn right that engineer told him?
You can't tell people you had a $100million dollar testing facility but expect them to believe you were so incompetent that you NEVER ONCE EVER SAW THIS ANTENNA ISSUE in advance, because IF THAT IS THE TRUTH?Then Apple doesn't belong in the cellphone business.
And anyway steve jobs refuted that when he said, we knew in advance that all smart phones do this?obviously it was discussed quite a bit BEFORE the launch and they were hoping consumers wouldn't figure it out?
That was a little silly. I'm one of many who had some issues, but knew better than to waste my time on hold. And maybe 99 percent tried calling but the phone dropped while they were on hold.
Here's my parody of both sides of this silly story...
iPhone4G Press Conference parody
How many of those scientists to too scared to tell Steve anything other than what he wants to hear?
Worst case from this is that if iPhone problems persist, Steve...and Apple could loose credibility with consumers.
This kind of comments make me want to go kill myself...
As I said before millions of times...
THERE. IS. NO. ANTENNA. DESIGN. FLAW. SHUT THE FRACK UP AND STOP FUELING THIS GIZMODO DRIVEL.
GODDAMIT man. GODDAMIT...
This is how all of the so-called analysts make their money. Let's run a story that sounds good and will get lots of clicks to our site.
the awesome powers of anonymous source.
These kind of "anonymous source" might work on other companies, but for Apple there is only a handful of people who is really in the knows.
What I'm amazed at is how no news outlet brought this up during Q&A. How is that not the first followup question? "You talk about AppleCare phone support, but not about in-store customers, do you have a sense of how many people have come to the store to complain?"
From Jason Snell's MacWorld Live blog of the Press Conference:
11:08
Jason Snell: Q about returns at Apple Stores. A: Cook says there were fewer than 3GS.
Check your amazement at the door, clickmyface.
How many of those scientists to too scared to tell Steve anything other than what he wants to hear?
Worst case from this is that if iPhone problems persist, Steve...and Apple could loose credibility with consumers.
Andy Hertzfeld had posted stories about Jobs in the 1980s when he was at his managerial worst, and engineers aren't "afraid" of Jobs. He's stubborn, but so are the engineers. And it's the engineers who actually create the thing.
Well, conspiracy theory time...
The most loyal lieutenants and disciples didn't join Steve on the stage....
What are you talking about?
Tim Cook is probably tops in that category and he was sitting right beside Jobs.
What are you talking about?
Tim Cook is probably tops in that category and he was sitting right beside Jobs.
I was talking about my conspiracy theory. Period.
You mean the New York Times MAKES the news it doesn't REPORT the news ...? Well I for one am shocked beyond words.
(for the sarcastically challenged ... read between the lines)
the ny times said: "dewey wins" "dewey wins"
for the uninitiated, he was running against truman
Look, the media as a whole (including FOX, CNN, Etc) have stopped reporting fact. (
The New York Times just makes stuff up. That we can rely on.
What a friggin rag. Why would anybody ever read a newspaper that just makes stuff up?
My impression was the the story was true, but Steve had to emphatically deny it because of the threat of lawsuits for knowingly shipping a defective product.
What did you expect him to say? "Yeah it's true, but... who cares?"
Yeah, the only way we're gonna find out whether this story was true is if the lawsuit filed a few weeks ago gains class action status, and then subsequently goes to trial. You can bet that Ruben Caballero and Steve Jobs will be deposed multiple times, and will probably be subpoenaed to testify at trial. Discovery requests will also demand all internal correspondence dealing with the i4 antenna design.
Of course, the likeliness of that suit going to trial is very small. If it gains class action status, AAPL will settle out of court, every iPhone 4 owner will get a $30 check in the mail, and the attorneys for the plaintiffs will walk away with new Ferraris and huge bonuses from their law firms.
This kind of comments make me want to go kill myself...
As I said before millions of times...
THERE. IS. NO. ANTENNA. DESIGN. FLAW. SHUT THE FRACK UP AND STOP FUELING THIS GIZMODO DRIVEL.
GODDAMIT man. GODDAMIT...
+1 What he said...
This kind of comments make me want to go kill myself...
As I said before millions of times...
THERE. IS. NO. ANTENNA. DESIGN. FLAW. SHUT THE FRACK UP AND STOP FUELING THIS GIZMODO DRIVEL.
GODDAMIT man. GODDAMIT...
I feel your pain.
Sadly, most people are idiots. Using a standard Stanford-Binet IQ test measure, only one half of one percent of the population can really be considered "smart," and even smart people can fool themselves.
The good news is that now we know the facts, we can identify the absolutely batshit insane types by whether they still stick to the conspiracy issues in spite of the facts. You now have to believe that not only is there a problem, there is a conspiracy to lie about it and cover it up by Apple, because ... you know, that makes more sense than the idea that they might want to produce good, working products to sell.
+1 What he said...
+1 again
If you don't like the way your phone performs RETURN IT!!!
... Of course, the likeliness of that suit going to trial is very small. If it gains class action status, AAPL will settle out of court, every iPhone 4 owner will get a $30 check in the mail, and the attorneys for the plaintiffs will walk away with new Ferraris and huge bonuses from their law firms.
It will never go to trial.
For a class action suit like this to be approved, they have to prove a flaw in the product and they have to accept any reasonable "fix" the company provides. It's not carte blanche to suck money out of the company. It also has to be the case that you are "stuck" with the product (it's late in the cycle and it can't be returned).
With this press conference alone, Apple seems to have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that:
- there is no flaw (relative to other phones)
- iPhone 4 actually has better reception than any other phone.
- anyone that doesn't like it can bring it back for a full refund
- they will give out a free "fix" (case) to anyone that asks
They even got the other case manufacturers onboard so the "suffering" have a choice of cases, and got the carriers to promise not to screw people over the contract or charge fees for the change.
No judge in their right mind will let the class action suit even begin to move forward.
It's over.
What I'm amazed at is how no news outlet brought this up during Q&A. How is that not the first followup question? "You talk about AppleCare phone support, but not about in-store customers, do you have a sense of how many people have come to the store to complain?"
They said that returns to the Apple Store were so minimal they were almost non measurable. If people were that upset about the antenna issue they could have returned it.
Steve Jobs is full of crap.
OF COURSE HE KNEW AND WAS WARNED IN ADVANCED.
He brags on stage that Apple owned and bought a $100 million dollar antenna testing facility during iphone design. Consumer reports used a $10,000 testing facility and found the problem immediately. Steve says they did thousands of tests, and it was only on a small percentage, and that they should have said something during the keynote.
OF COURSE THEY KNEW IN ADVANCE, and damn right that engineer told him?
You can't tell people you had a $100million dollar testing facility but expect them to believe you were so incompetent that you NEVER ONCE EVER SAW THIS ANTENNA ISSUE in advance, because IF THAT IS THE TRUTH?Then Apple doesn't belong in the cellphone business.
And anyway steve jobs refuted that when he said, we knew in advance that all smart phones do this?obviously it was discussed quite a bit BEFORE the launch and they were hoping consumers wouldn't figure it out?
Sure, they may have seen and registered the issue but they made a calculated risk to release the phone to give it a bigger battery and keep the aesthetics intact. I suspect the next iteration will include a coating on the antenna as long as it looks good and is cheaper than a bumper.
So you and Jason Snell are both wrong? At the press conference there was a giant screen that said "0.55% Percent of all iPhone 4 users who have called about antenna or reception"
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/l...ss-conference/
how many didn't bother to call? It's well known the numbers of people who actually call to complain about issue such as this is much lower than those who actually have it.
A whole bunch of pomp and ceremony, our phone is as bad as their phone's reception, blah blah blah.
The reason Apple was crucified in the media is because look at it, the we're the king of the castle and yer the dirty rascal kind of thing you get from the apple crowd (frig I'm in it I can see it) makes it even more a target.
The more smug the grins, the more people want to wipe them. Issue or no issue, that all it really is.