It is, but RIM was right in what they said. Apple used other examples to divert attention to their specific problem, which is signal decrease higher than the norm in terms of dbm. There was no need to draw them into this, especially if they weren't going to be thorough in the style of anandtech and show exactly how this counts in terms of dbm and how it affects the performance of the phones.
no Apple used examples to show that this ISN'T an apple specific problem. And all the other phones actually lost MORE bars then iPhone 4 when held in their so called "Death Grip"
Notice how none of these companies statements actually addressed how their phones showed the same results as iPhone 4 when gripped in a certain way. Despite the fact most of them poked at apple for this very reason. Did you expect Apple NOT to fight back??
And in all honestly Steve actually praised the quality of these phones when showing their videos. He specifically gave every other phone company a chance to join him and say "yes, this is a challenge for the entire industry" but instead they all immaturely denied everything. Funny, isn't that what every one was mad at Apple for these past few weeks?? Not addressing an issue??
Toyota never went out of their way to say that the stuck accelerator problem really wasn't a problem, then drag GM and Honda into the mix.
I find what Apple did, is sort of sketchy, they admitted a problem, but didn't own up to it. They didn't fix the problem, just put a band aid over it, then used the Chewbacca defense to give the cult something to divert their attention towards.
Seriously while other phones may lose bars when the phones are held in the 'death grip', ie normal handheld position, do any of them drop calls like the iPhone 4 can? Probably not. Not that it couldn't happen, but Apple is the one that uses hyperbole to describe everything they do, and there simply aren't a lot of other companies that can sell 3 million phones that quickly; Apple is one of the big boys, they have to be more forthcoming with mistakes.
So, your assertion is that the other phones drop bars, but only the iPhone 4 actually drops the calls? How do you know? Do you have one? Or are you just going by the word of the tech press? How does someone admit a problem without owning up to it? What is the time limit for full disclosure? If a company's metrics don't show a problematic trend are they supposed to just jump at the beck and call of the blogs begging and pleading to be forgiven for an egregious mistake?
I only know one person with an iPhone 4. I played around with it a couple of days after she got it before antennagate took off. I didn't speak with her again until last night when I jokingly asked how she likes her horrible iPhone 4. She said she gets better reception and can make calls in what were deadspots for her 3GS. We can nerd-rage about dBm and bars all we want, but in the end if the phone works there is no problem.
Toyota never went out of their way to say that the stuck accelerator problem really wasn't a problem, then drag GM and Honda into the mix.
I find what Apple did, is sort of sketchy, they admitted a problem, but didn't own up to it. They didn't fix the problem, just put a band aid over it, then used the Chewbacca defense to give the cult something to divert their attention towards.
Seriously while other phones may lose bars when the phones are held in the 'death grip', ie normal handheld position, do any of them drop calls like the iPhone 4 can? Probably not. Not that it couldn't happen, but Apple is the one that uses hyperbole to describe everything they do, and there simply aren't a lot of other companies that can sell 3 million phones that quickly; Apple is one of the big boys, they have to be more forthcoming with mistakes.
Are you retarded?? He clearly PROVED that this ISN'T just an apple issue!! Why would he "own up" and take responsibility to something that is just simple physics?? If you cover up a signal.. it will get weaker. period. It makes no difference what company you are or what product it is.
Don't do it! If you get one, there's only a 99.45% chance you'll be happy with it enough to keep it. And if you believe the flip-floppers over at Consumer Reports, you'll just be settling for the best smartphone on the market. You should demand more. Perhaps a cheap and clunky Nokia phone.
Don't you want a Nokia Hello Kitty phone? A plastic fantastic Dell Inspiron craptop loaded with shovelware?
Thanks, on both points, for making me laugh so hard I blew hot tea through my nose.
I cant make my Bold 9700 lose signal that bad. I tried holding it really really tight and i only lost one bar. On my sister's iphone 3G, it only loses like 1 or 2 bars.
I think it is a good stop for Apple to provide cases, but i think they should have done better admitting that there is something hardwarewise that needs to be addressed. I did the single finger tip on my friend's iphone 4 and lost signal and call was degraded. it never dropped the call, however.
Are you retarded?? He clearly PROVED that this ISN'T just an apple issue!! Why would he "own up" and take responsibility to something that is just simple physics?? If you cover up a signal.. it will get weaker. period. It makes no difference what company you are or what product it is.
If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.
I cant make my Bold 9700 lose signal that bad. I tried holding it really really tight and i only lost one bar. On my sister's iphone 3G, it only loses like 1 or 2 bars.
I think it is a good stop for Apple to provide cases, but i think they should have done better admitting that there is something hardwarewise that needs to be addressed. I did the single finger tip on my friend's iphone 4 and lost signal and call was degraded. it never dropped the call, however.
Did you do all these test in the exact same spot.. at the same time of day to ensure you where the same distance from a tower and during a time when cell traffic was about the same??
Steve made it clear that all the test he was doing were in an area of relatively weak cell phone strength, as thats where all the issues with iPhone 4 are derived from.
I own a 3GS and my GF own's a Blackberry and I can achieve the same results on our phones as Steve got in his videos.
I have to wonder if it is more than a coincidence that the first time Apple has offered a case for a phone is also for a phone which needs a case to solve an antenna problem. (There *is* a problem, but it's minor and most people would never notice it.) Maybe Apple was thinking that the antenna would probably be fine, but just in case there's a problem we'll have a case available. On the other hand, the reason for the case may be just because the phone has glass on the front and the back.
It doesn't really matter though, because for whatever the reason Apple is providing free cases. I have a bumper for my iPhone 4, and I'm very satisfied with it. It does give the phone a different look, but it's still up to Apple's standards of attractive appearance. It doesn't interfere in any way with using the phone, and has the same metal buttons as on the phone itself for volume. There are varying opinions about how well the phone works without a bumper, but with it the iPhone 4 is definitely Apple's best phone ever, and arguably the best of all the smart phones.
"The answer you seek may be in the forum name. Yes, it is."
True.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorybalmer
no Apple used examples to show that this ISN'T an apple specific problem. And all the other phones actually lost MORE bars then iPhone 4 when held in their so called "Death Grip"
Notice how none of these companies statements actually addressed how their phones showed the same results as iPhone 4 when gripped in a certain way. Despite the fact most of them poked at apple for this very reason. Did you expect Apple NOT to fight back??
And in all honestly Steve actually praised the quality of these phones when showing their videos. He specifically gave every other phone company a chance to join him and say "yes, this is a challenge for the entire industry" but instead they all immaturely denied everything. Funny, isn't that what every one was mad at Apple for these past few weeks?? Not addressing an issue??
I agree that it isn't an iphone only issue. But that doesn't touch on whether the impact is greater on the iphone or not. It seems, at least compared to the 3gs, it is. I would've liked to see apple test this in their facility for better accuracy though.
What would have been useful was the amount lost in dbm for each phone. This would result in greater or smaller effect depending on the phone. This kind of test would have been much better as opposed to simply touching on using the death grip, which I doubt anyone would ever use. Also, the thresholds for the amount of bars for each phone would have been useful. Another thing to be noted is whether this is before or after apple updated their algorithm, since that makes a difference in how the bars appear to decrease.
Signal loss when holding the phone in a death grip happens everywhere, yes. But the iphone (affected ones at least) doesn't seem to have to be held in a death grip to lose signal. Apple never did a thorough test at all, just enough to support the claim that it happens to everyone. Let's face it, there were many important things regarding signal that they never touched on. I would've preferred they did something more like anandtech, giving us some values instead of simply bars-- which can vary from phone to phone.
I'm not sure if apple is right or wrong in their assertion. But everyone seems to be clinging onto this unscientific test as if its the holy grail, when just recently everyone thought the online videos were useless for being unscientific.
i Think apple is trying to deflect the actual issue here, yes death grip is real for every other phone, but because of death grip, call drop is only unique problem with iphone 4. more call drop is real problem with iphone 4,not just bar dancing.
Historically, Apple executes very well and when they do fall short, their competitors love to make a big deal out of it. Sometimes I think Apple's own customers need to take a pause and remember that Apple is comprised of human beings with human flaws. They will make mistakes from time to time.
Apple isn't perfect, but I have been far happier with their computers, mp3 players and phones than those made by other companies. If I have ever had an issue, they have always made things right.
RIM and NOKIA make good products, but like it or not some of their phones have the very same flaw. I know that they'd prefer no one point that out, but they do. Apple had no choice but to address this when the very same companies and the media are blowing this all out of proportion and making it sound like an iPhone 4 problem only.
Apple admitted that the iPhone 4 isn't perfect and that they are working hard to rectify the situation. But, in the meantime, here is a free bumper. We understand it is not a fix but a work-around, but it will alleviate the problem for the time being. If you are still unhappy, we'll refund your money.
Personally, I'm cool with that.
Gee-- What a totally unreasonable, practical outlook!
Wait, where did he say that? I swore he only said it had more dropped calls than the 3GS, not fewer dropped calls than any phone on the market except the 3GS.
What is the difference? The 3GS is the best phone out there except for the 4.
If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.
Yes they would. The only reason he did that all was to cool off the press. You and I BOTH know that the press has a fantastic history of exaggerating and mis-representing stories. And you and I both know there are enough people out that who actually make decisions based on what the story of the day tells them instead of just trying it for themselves.
Everyone said last week Apple was ignorant for NOT giving people free Bumpers if they know it makes the phones reception better.. now people are saying they are just masking the problem.
The phone is fine.. and from the sounds of it, has been proven better then any other phone in all areas INCLUDING reception, but like all phones can loss signal when held in a certain way in certain areas of already weak signal strength. But if that still isn't enough for you then actually go out and try it, instead of just buying all this at it's word??
On a personal note, sorry for calling you retarded in my last post man. It was pretty immature. This stuff just bugs me is all.
If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't. They can't win. If they hand the PR in the normal fashion with uncaring press releases they look like jerks. If they give out free cases they look like they are admitting that the problem is actually as big as the tech press has made it out to be.
Just be honest and admit that what Apple haters want is for Apple to say they are horrible people and that they are going to refund every cent to any one that has ever bought an Apple product before they close their doors for good, but not before Steve Jobs commits suicide in his secret underground bunker.
I think people are mad at "Apple's Issue" because iPhones in the past still held onto their 3G signal when held lightly (normally). Yeah, I can grip my 3G really hard and make it drop dramatically, but you don't have to grip the iPhone 4 hard, you just have to have that black strip touching skin and the signal goes WAY down. THAT'S the difference between Apple's problem and other phones. THAT'S why people are mad. A phone shouldn't do that.
Perhaps after Sept. 30, Apple will start shipping the iPhone with a little sticker on the side that points to the line and says "Antenna - Do not touch ---->".
Either that or BUILD a case around the phone that you can't remove.
i Think apple is trying to deflect the actual issue here, yes death grip is real for every other phone, but because of death grip, call drop is only unique problem with iphone 4. more call drop is real problem with iphone 4,not just bar dancing.
Could you take some call drop data on your iPhone 4 for a month or two to give us some real-world data so we can see what the actual drop rate is from an unbiased non-Apple tester? You do have an iPhone 4, right? You certainly speak as if you do.
If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.
Apple loves its customers. They learned, maybe not for the first time, just how intensely they love every customer because of the horrible bloggers and media blowing everything all up out of proportion.
They want each and every customer to be totally and completely happy. That is why they are giving away free Bumpers - to make us happy - and NOT because any problem exists.
Comments
Why is this the automatic assumption to anything not "pro-apple" here?
To mis-qoute Yoda:
"The answer you seek may be in the forum name. Yes, it is."
It is, but RIM was right in what they said. Apple used other examples to divert attention to their specific problem, which is signal decrease higher than the norm in terms of dbm. There was no need to draw them into this, especially if they weren't going to be thorough in the style of anandtech and show exactly how this counts in terms of dbm and how it affects the performance of the phones.
no Apple used examples to show that this ISN'T an apple specific problem. And all the other phones actually lost MORE bars then iPhone 4 when held in their so called "Death Grip"
Notice how none of these companies statements actually addressed how their phones showed the same results as iPhone 4 when gripped in a certain way. Despite the fact most of them poked at apple for this very reason. Did you expect Apple NOT to fight back??
And in all honestly Steve actually praised the quality of these phones when showing their videos. He specifically gave every other phone company a chance to join him and say "yes, this is a challenge for the entire industry" but instead they all immaturely denied everything. Funny, isn't that what every one was mad at Apple for these past few weeks?? Not addressing an issue??
Toyota never went out of their way to say that the stuck accelerator problem really wasn't a problem, then drag GM and Honda into the mix.
I find what Apple did, is sort of sketchy, they admitted a problem, but didn't own up to it. They didn't fix the problem, just put a band aid over it, then used the Chewbacca defense to give the cult something to divert their attention towards.
Seriously while other phones may lose bars when the phones are held in the 'death grip', ie normal handheld position, do any of them drop calls like the iPhone 4 can? Probably not. Not that it couldn't happen, but Apple is the one that uses hyperbole to describe everything they do, and there simply aren't a lot of other companies that can sell 3 million phones that quickly; Apple is one of the big boys, they have to be more forthcoming with mistakes.
So, your assertion is that the other phones drop bars, but only the iPhone 4 actually drops the calls? How do you know? Do you have one? Or are you just going by the word of the tech press? How does someone admit a problem without owning up to it? What is the time limit for full disclosure? If a company's metrics don't show a problematic trend are they supposed to just jump at the beck and call of the blogs begging and pleading to be forgiven for an egregious mistake?
I only know one person with an iPhone 4. I played around with it a couple of days after she got it before antennagate took off. I didn't speak with her again until last night when I jokingly asked how she likes her horrible iPhone 4. She said she gets better reception and can make calls in what were deadspots for her 3GS. We can nerd-rage about dBm and bars all we want, but in the end if the phone works there is no problem.
Toyota never went out of their way to say that the stuck accelerator problem really wasn't a problem, then drag GM and Honda into the mix.
I find what Apple did, is sort of sketchy, they admitted a problem, but didn't own up to it. They didn't fix the problem, just put a band aid over it, then used the Chewbacca defense to give the cult something to divert their attention towards.
Seriously while other phones may lose bars when the phones are held in the 'death grip', ie normal handheld position, do any of them drop calls like the iPhone 4 can? Probably not. Not that it couldn't happen, but Apple is the one that uses hyperbole to describe everything they do, and there simply aren't a lot of other companies that can sell 3 million phones that quickly; Apple is one of the big boys, they have to be more forthcoming with mistakes.
Are you retarded?? He clearly PROVED that this ISN'T just an apple issue!! Why would he "own up" and take responsibility to something that is just simple physics?? If you cover up a signal.. it will get weaker. period. It makes no difference what company you are or what product it is.
Don't do it! If you get one, there's only a 99.45% chance you'll be happy with it enough to keep it. And if you believe the flip-floppers over at Consumer Reports, you'll just be settling for the best smartphone on the market. You should demand more. Perhaps a cheap and clunky Nokia phone.
Don't you want a Nokia Hello Kitty phone? A plastic fantastic Dell Inspiron craptop loaded with shovelware?
Thanks, on both points, for making me laugh so hard I blew hot tea through my nose.
My attorney will be it touch with you shortly....
That probably explains the Nokia X5 then:
Holy crap!
I actually had to google that phone model because I couldn't believe that was a real picture of a real phone! ...Unbelievable.
Kinda' pimped-out isn't it
Would you use a phone that looked like that in the presence of your mother (or anyone)?
.
I think it is a good stop for Apple to provide cases, but i think they should have done better admitting that there is something hardwarewise that needs to be addressed. I did the single finger tip on my friend's iphone 4 and lost signal and call was degraded. it never dropped the call, however.
Are you retarded?? He clearly PROVED that this ISN'T just an apple issue!! Why would he "own up" and take responsibility to something that is just simple physics?? If you cover up a signal.. it will get weaker. period. It makes no difference what company you are or what product it is.
If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.
You can go on the web and look at pictures of Nokia phones that ship with stickers on the back that say ?don?t touch here
Can anyone find these pictures? Anyone?
I cant make my Bold 9700 lose signal that bad. I tried holding it really really tight and i only lost one bar. On my sister's iphone 3G, it only loses like 1 or 2 bars.
I think it is a good stop for Apple to provide cases, but i think they should have done better admitting that there is something hardwarewise that needs to be addressed. I did the single finger tip on my friend's iphone 4 and lost signal and call was degraded. it never dropped the call, however.
Did you do all these test in the exact same spot.. at the same time of day to ensure you where the same distance from a tower and during a time when cell traffic was about the same??
Steve made it clear that all the test he was doing were in an area of relatively weak cell phone strength, as thats where all the issues with iPhone 4 are derived from.
I own a 3GS and my GF own's a Blackberry and I can achieve the same results on our phones as Steve got in his videos.
It doesn't really matter though, because for whatever the reason Apple is providing free cases. I have a bumper for my iPhone 4, and I'm very satisfied with it. It does give the phone a different look, but it's still up to Apple's standards of attractive appearance. It doesn't interfere in any way with using the phone, and has the same metal buttons as on the phone itself for volume. There are varying opinions about how well the phone works without a bumper, but with it the iPhone 4 is definitely Apple's best phone ever, and arguably the best of all the smart phones.
To mis-qoute Yoda:
"The answer you seek may be in the forum name. Yes, it is."
True.
no Apple used examples to show that this ISN'T an apple specific problem. And all the other phones actually lost MORE bars then iPhone 4 when held in their so called "Death Grip"
Notice how none of these companies statements actually addressed how their phones showed the same results as iPhone 4 when gripped in a certain way. Despite the fact most of them poked at apple for this very reason. Did you expect Apple NOT to fight back??
And in all honestly Steve actually praised the quality of these phones when showing their videos. He specifically gave every other phone company a chance to join him and say "yes, this is a challenge for the entire industry" but instead they all immaturely denied everything. Funny, isn't that what every one was mad at Apple for these past few weeks?? Not addressing an issue??
I agree that it isn't an iphone only issue. But that doesn't touch on whether the impact is greater on the iphone or not. It seems, at least compared to the 3gs, it is. I would've liked to see apple test this in their facility for better accuracy though.
What would have been useful was the amount lost in dbm for each phone. This would result in greater or smaller effect depending on the phone. This kind of test would have been much better as opposed to simply touching on using the death grip, which I doubt anyone would ever use. Also, the thresholds for the amount of bars for each phone would have been useful. Another thing to be noted is whether this is before or after apple updated their algorithm, since that makes a difference in how the bars appear to decrease.
Signal loss when holding the phone in a death grip happens everywhere, yes. But the iphone (affected ones at least) doesn't seem to have to be held in a death grip to lose signal. Apple never did a thorough test at all, just enough to support the claim that it happens to everyone. Let's face it, there were many important things regarding signal that they never touched on. I would've preferred they did something more like anandtech, giving us some values instead of simply bars-- which can vary from phone to phone.
I'm not sure if apple is right or wrong in their assertion. But everyone seems to be clinging onto this unscientific test as if its the holy grail, when just recently everyone thought the online videos were useless for being unscientific.
Historically, Apple executes very well and when they do fall short, their competitors love to make a big deal out of it. Sometimes I think Apple's own customers need to take a pause and remember that Apple is comprised of human beings with human flaws. They will make mistakes from time to time.
Apple isn't perfect, but I have been far happier with their computers, mp3 players and phones than those made by other companies. If I have ever had an issue, they have always made things right.
RIM and NOKIA make good products, but like it or not some of their phones have the very same flaw. I know that they'd prefer no one point that out, but they do. Apple had no choice but to address this when the very same companies and the media are blowing this all out of proportion and making it sound like an iPhone 4 problem only.
Apple admitted that the iPhone 4 isn't perfect and that they are working hard to rectify the situation. But, in the meantime, here is a free bumper. We understand it is not a fix but a work-around, but it will alleviate the problem for the time being. If you are still unhappy, we'll refund your money.
Personally, I'm cool with that.
Gee-- What a totally unreasonable, practical outlook!
/sarcasm
Wish I'd said that!
.
Wait, where did he say that? I swore he only said it had more dropped calls than the 3GS, not fewer dropped calls than any phone on the market except the 3GS.
What is the difference? The 3GS is the best phone out there except for the 4.
If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.
Yes they would. The only reason he did that all was to cool off the press. You and I BOTH know that the press has a fantastic history of exaggerating and mis-representing stories. And you and I both know there are enough people out that who actually make decisions based on what the story of the day tells them instead of just trying it for themselves.
Everyone said last week Apple was ignorant for NOT giving people free Bumpers if they know it makes the phones reception better.. now people are saying they are just masking the problem.
The phone is fine.. and from the sounds of it, has been proven better then any other phone in all areas INCLUDING reception, but like all phones can loss signal when held in a certain way in certain areas of already weak signal strength. But if that still isn't enough for you then actually go out and try it, instead of just buying all this at it's word??
On a personal note, sorry for calling you retarded in my last post man. It was pretty immature. This stuff just bugs me is all.
If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't. They can't win. If they hand the PR in the normal fashion with uncaring press releases they look like jerks. If they give out free cases they look like they are admitting that the problem is actually as big as the tech press has made it out to be.
Just be honest and admit that what Apple haters want is for Apple to say they are horrible people and that they are going to refund every cent to any one that has ever bought an Apple product before they close their doors for good, but not before Steve Jobs commits suicide in his secret underground bunker.
Perhaps after Sept. 30, Apple will start shipping the iPhone with a little sticker on the side that points to the line and says "Antenna - Do not touch ---->".
Either that or BUILD a case around the phone that you can't remove.
i Think apple is trying to deflect the actual issue here, yes death grip is real for every other phone, but because of death grip, call drop is only unique problem with iphone 4. more call drop is real problem with iphone 4,not just bar dancing.
Could you take some call drop data on your iPhone 4 for a month or two to give us some real-world data so we can see what the actual drop rate is from an unbiased non-Apple tester? You do have an iPhone 4, right? You certainly speak as if you do.
If there was absolutely no problem, Apple would not concern themselves in giving away free cases, they would've just released a press statement, saying something to the effect, "It happens to all phones, we can't control physics.", nor would they want to give up on the profit made on the bumpers.
Apple loves its customers. They learned, maybe not for the first time, just how intensely they love every customer because of the horrible bloggers and media blowing everything all up out of proportion.
They want each and every customer to be totally and completely happy. That is why they are giving away free Bumpers - to make us happy - and NOT because any problem exists.