I hope that in the next religious thread the participants will have more to draw from other than repetative quips, phrases and obvious trolling techniques... I am sorry but the arguements I have heard for each sides point of view has been severly lacking IMO... the name calling, the obvious inability to control the anger and keep the conversation civil.
At least NoahJ has been able to maintain a sense of humor...
(Dont get me wrong I still dont like the guy that much grrrrr...)
However I look forward to NoahJs next thread entitled:
[quote]"Why am I always right?" by NoahJ <hr></blockquote>
I don't particularly like the way NoahJs threads go, but maybe if a new topic is started we can attemped to remain civil and communicate without any trolling, subtle or not...
Although Im firmly in the camp of non-believers of any religion, I could not say 100% that my choice is correct. Frankly arguing with people on the internet is pretty lame anyway, but the real point here is to actually listen to what a person has to say, If you go through life having made a decision early in life, prepared to never change that position then you are a fool. I may have started with the intent to shoot noahj down, but who is to say that my belief is any more valid than his. I listened and learned alot, my views didn't change much, but now I know abit more and thus have gained something more valuable than if I constantly shot NoahJ down. Don't go through life with your eyes shut. Cheers to NoahJ.
<strong>I hope that in the next religious thread the participants will have more to draw from other than repetative quips, phrases and obvious trolling techniques... I am sorry but the arguements I have heard for each sides point of view has been severly lacking IMO... the name calling, the obvious inability to control the anger and keep the conversation civil. <hr></blockquote></strong>
I agree about the civility issue. I hope that I remained adequately civil the whole time. I have learned a lot in this thread and feel it was not a total loss. And I too hope that the next thread will be more hospitable to a free exchange of ideas. We don't have to agree, but we should be civil in our arguments.
[quote]<strong>At least NoahJ has been able to maintain a sense of humor...
(Dont get me wrong I still dont like the guy that much grrrrr...)
However I look forward to NoahJs next thread entitled:
Thank you for noticing the sense of humor. That thread is a long way off however. When I am always right I will come back and let you all know.
[quote]<strong>I don't particularly like the way NoahJs threads go, but maybe if a new topic is started we can attemped to remain civil and communicate without any trolling, subtle or not... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, considereing why this thread was created to begin with it was practically doomed from the start. I am suprised how long it actually lasted.
Well, I've been away for a while and missed what was obviously a writhing monster of a thread. Even if this thread is semi-dormant now, I just wanted to respond to NoahJ's comments, because it would be rude not to:Yes, that's what my answer boils down to.
And I didn't intend my comments to be snide, I was just trying to make a point which so often gets overlooked with all the Bible-thumping on these boards.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
Your god has the power to stop evil and yet he doesn't claiming he'll sort everything out in the end. He can't mess with free will. Well, that's analogous to a police officer holding a shotgun to a criminal's head allowing the criminal to go on a rampage killing many people and then after the rampage is over, pulling the trigger. That's called too little, too late. The police officer could have stopped the acts but the bastard decided not to. The police officer is just as guilty as the criminal. God could have stopped the acts but the bastard decided not to.
If I had the power to stop an evil act from occuring, I would stop it. See, I'm more benevolent than your freaking cruel bastard of a god. BOW DOWN BEFORE ME AND WORSHIP THE BENEVOLENT ONE.
I really don't care if satan will pay fully for his actions after the fact. God could have stopped them but his inaction was just as much of a crime. Will god pay for his inactions?
All you are saying is that god uses free will as an excuse to have front row seats to a bloodbath that he could stop at any time and he'll try to make it all right in the end by punishing the pawns in his sick, twisted, sadistic little game.
Your god is evil. Your god is cruel. Worship me, for I am benevolent.
EDIT: Fixed random typos.
[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]
[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is one of the hoariest and IMHO weakest arguments in the atheistic camp:- if there's a God, how come He/ She/ It lets bad things happen? (Does God have a gender?)
This argument assumes that the concept of God is somehow dependent on judgements and assumptions we make about He/ She/ It - that God is loving, etc. Whereas if you think about it, the concept of God really depends on whether the universe as we know it could exist without some sort of ultimate intelligence or controlling mechanism. Go to each extreme of the universe - the farthest galaxies and the tiniest subatomic particles, and the universe disappears into mystery and an unknown void.
And 'why does God let bad things happen?' argument also assumes, taking a different tack, that suffering and pain are always completely bad things with no purpose. Not a very well designed universe if that's the case, eh? I like the concept of reincarnation here. Looked at from the point of view of one life, suffering and pain seems wrong, but looked at across the span of many lives, suffering may serve a function. Maybe suffering in physical lives allows people to evolve spiritually (if I can use that term) - the development of wisdom through experience. Okay, end of nutty sermon! Oh dear, is that a lotus flower I see before me?
This is one of the hoariest and IMHO weakest arguments in the atheistic camp:- if there's a God, how come He/ She/ It lets bad things happen? (Does God have a gender?)
This argument assumes that the concept of God is somehow dependent on judgements and assumptions we make about He/ She/ It - that God is loving, etc. Whereas if you think about it, the concept of God really depends on whether the universe as we know it could exist without some sort of ultimate intelligence or controlling mechanism. Go to each extreme of the universe - the farthest galaxies and the tiniest subatomic particles, and the universe disappears into mystery and an unknown void.
And 'why does God let bad things happen?' argument also assumes, taking a different tack, that suffering and pain are always completely bad things with no purpose. Not a very well designed universe if that's the case, eh? I like the concept of reincarnation here. Looked at from the point of view of one life, suffering and pain seems wrong, but looked at across the span of many lives, suffering may serve a function. Maybe suffering in physical lives allows people to evolve spiritually (if I can use that term) - the development of wisdom through experience. Okay, end of nutty sermon! Oh dear, is that a lotus flower I see before me? </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not atheist. I've been over that before.
You really need to pay attention to context. That comment was in response to Noah saying that satan won't get away with all his acts because he'll be punished in the end. Remember, when I said that, I was doing so under the guise of the christian view of the universe. So, when Noah mentioned that god would punish satan in the end for his evil acts and taking into account his acknowledgement that god is all powerful, I drew the conclusions that you responded to.
What you seem to fail to realize is that what I wrote is not what I really believe. As I said before, in order to demonstrate the stupidity that is built into christianity, I had to step into their universe and show that under their rules their god is evil. Remember, christianity dictates that all other religions are incorrect (along with all dissenting thought). The only way to refute these claims is to step into the flawed system and reveal said flaws.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
I'm not atheist. I've been over that before.
You really need to pay attention to context. That comment was in response to Noah saying that satan won't get away with all his acts because he'll be punished in the end. Remember, when I said that, I was doing so under the guise of the christian view of the universe. So, when Noah mentioned that god would punish satan in the end for his evil acts and taking into account his acknowledgement that god is all powerful, I drew the conclusions that you responded to.
What you seem to fail to realize is that what I wrote is not what I really believe. As I said before, in order to demonstrate the stupidity that is built into christianity, I had to step into their universe and show that under their rules their god is evil. Remember, christianity dictates that all other religions are incorrect (along with all dissenting thought). The only way to refute these claims is to step into the flawed system and reveal said flaws.</strong><hr></blockquote>
He was attempting to show how Christianity was what it was not. He put forth a strawman that was knocked down time and time again by me, and yet since he was the one who had stepped intoChristianity for a moment and put forth the assertion, he was the one who knew more about it than the ones who actually practiced it and thus his interpretation of it was the right one, while my own was fundamentally flawed and wrong.
Now this is not to say that he beleived what he said. Just to say that it was his attempt to interpret a "system" that he does not fully understand based on a few, quite biased, opinions and points not very well studied. As I said, made for an interesting and long topic that was hard fought.
However, an assertion put forth by a person with no real backup but the assertion itself is not a won argument. If you are going to step into the role of a Christian and argue christianity, you need to be prepared to argue it based on that premise. That means, you will have to show scripture that backs you up, not say, "I said it, the bible is false so it cannot be used as an argument, so I win." So in truth, you never really did as you claim.
He was attempting to show how Christianity was what it was not. He put forth a strawman that was knocked down time and time again by me, and yet since he was the one who had stepped intoChristianity for a moment and put forth the assertion, he was the one who knew more about it than the ones who actually practiced it and thus his interpretation of it was the right one, while my own was fundamentally flawed and wrong.
Now this is not to say that he beleived what he said. Just to say that it was his attempt to interpret a "system" that he does not fully understand based on a few, quite biased, opinions and points not very well studied. As I said, made for an interesting and long topic that was hard fought.
However, an assertion put forth by a person with no real backup but the assertion itself is not a won argument. If you are going to step into the role of a Christian and argue christianity, you need to be prepared to argue it based on that premise. That means, you will have to show scripture that backs you up, not say, "I said it, the bible is false so it cannot be used as an argument, so I win." So in truth, you never really did as you claim.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Knocked down like a straw man? Hah. My message went in one ear and out the other while you were just mumbling the party line.
[ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</p>
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
Knocked down like a straw man? Hah. My message went in one ear and out the other while you were just mumbling the party line.
[ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mumbling? My recollection ws that I was shouting, must have been some ohter argument where you and others were telling me that...
However, you do know what a strawman argument is right? If so, then youwill know it is not something to get riled over. A person puts out a premise, that may or may not be right. That premise is called in some circles a strawman argument. Once it is built up people pick it apart and see if it falls down or not. Simple debate term, not an insult.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
I'm not atheist. I've been over that before.
You really need to pay attention to context. That comment was in response to Noah saying that satan won't get away with all his acts because he'll be punished in the end. Remember, when I said that, I was doing so under the guise of the christian view of the universe. So, when Noah mentioned that god would punish satan in the end for his evil acts and taking into account his acknowledgement that god is all powerful, I drew the conclusions that you responded to.
What you seem to fail to realize is that what I wrote is not what I really believe. As I said before, in order to demonstrate the stupidity that is built into christianity, I had to step into their universe and show that under their rules their god is evil. Remember, christianity dictates that all other religions are incorrect (along with all dissenting thought). The only way to refute these claims is to step into the flawed system and reveal said flaws.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, okay, I may not have read all six pages of this thread in fine detail, and I might have lost a few of the nuances. So, Exercise, what do you think of The Blue Meanie's perspective on God then? NoahJ too?
Well, okay, I may not have read all six pages of this thread in fine detail, and I might have lost a few of the nuances. So, Exercise, what do you think of The Blue Meanie's perspective on God then? NoahJ too?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think it's pointless to have a perspective on god. Whether it is the whacked out bible thumping beliefs of Noah or the more liberal beliefs that you have, it is arrogant and just plain silly to try to explain the unexplainable.
We are here, now. Deal with it. That's all that matters. Take all of your gods and shove it.
EDIT: random typos..
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</p>
:- if there's a God, how come He/ She/ It lets bad things happen? (Does God have a gender?)
This argument assumes that the concept of God is somehow dependent on judgements and assumptions we make about He/ She/ It - that God is loving, etc. Whereas if you think about it, the concept of God really depends on whether the universe as we know it could exist without some sort of ultimate intelligence or controlling mechanism. Go to each extreme of the universe - the farthest galaxies and the tiniest subatomic particles, and the universe disappears into mystery and an unknown void. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree here, I think completely. we try as hard as we can to let God be God, but our limited minds still want to place him on a power meter, love meter, righteousness meter, etc, which limits him.
[quote]<strong>And 'why does God let bad things happen?' argument also assumes, taking a different tack, that suffering and pain are always completely bad things with no purpose. Not a very well designed universe if that's the case, eh?</strong><hr></blockquote>
There is much to be gained from suffering and going through hard times. It builds character and faith just for two good things. Agreed here as well.
[quote]<strong> I like the concept of reincarnation here. Looked at from the point of view of one life, suffering and pain seems wrong, but looked at across the span of many lives, suffering may serve a function. Maybe suffering in physical lives allows people to evolve spiritually (if I can use that term) - the development of wisdom through experience. Okay, end of nutty sermon! Oh dear, is that a lotus flower I see before me? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Here is where I disagree. Reincarnation is false by what is written in the bible. It is appointed for man once to die and then the judgement. No reincarnation there.
Here is where I disagree. Reincarnation is false by what is written in the bible. It is appointed for man once to die and then the judgement. No reincarnation there.
Here is where I disagree. Reincarnation is false by what is written in the bible. It is appointed for man once to die and then the judgement. No reincarnation there.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>If it's not in there,
it can't be right.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, you got part of it right. If it disagrees with what the bible says outright, it is not correct.
[quote]<strong>I'm an arrogant prick
and all non-believers I'll smite!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I of course disagree with the first part of the statement, and as far as the second part, the only smiting that has been going on around here has come from you sir.
Umm, yeah, and since it is in comic form it carries a lot of weight. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Being in comic form doesn't preclude it from being correct either. Hell, half the stuff in the bible is quite comical.
[ 05-15-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</p>
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
I think it's pointless to have a perspective on god. Whether it is the whacked out bible thumping beliefs of Noah or the more liberal beliefs that you have, it is arrogant and just plain silly to try to explain the unexplainable.
We are here, now. Deal with it. That's all that matters. Take all of your gods and shove it.
EDIT: random typos..
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I'm glad you think The Blue Meanie's beliefs are liberal, but I'm not so sure a "shove it" attiitude takes us very far. Having said that, I would agree that right here, right now is what really counts.
[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: The Blue Meanie ]</p>
Comments
At least NoahJ has been able to maintain a sense of humor...
(Dont get me wrong I still dont like the guy that much
However I look forward to NoahJs next thread entitled:
[quote]"Why am I always right?" by NoahJ
hehehe... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
I don't particularly like the way NoahJs threads go, but maybe if a new topic is started we can attemped to remain civil and communicate without any trolling, subtle or not...
------------------------------------
© FERRO 2001-2002
<strong>I hope that in the next religious thread the participants will have more to draw from other than repetative quips, phrases and obvious trolling techniques... I am sorry but the arguements I have heard for each sides point of view has been severly lacking IMO... the name calling, the obvious inability to control the anger and keep the conversation civil. <hr></blockquote></strong>
I agree about the civility issue. I hope that I remained adequately civil the whole time. I have learned a lot in this thread and feel it was not a total loss. And I too hope that the next thread will be more hospitable to a free exchange of ideas. We don't have to agree, but we should be civil in our arguments.
[quote]<strong>At least NoahJ has been able to maintain a sense of humor...
(Dont get me wrong I still dont like the guy that much
However I look forward to NoahJs next thread entitled:
Why am I always right. By NoahJ
hehehe... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank you for noticing the sense of humor. That thread is a long way off however. When I am always right I will come back and let you all know.
[quote]<strong>I don't particularly like the way NoahJs threads go, but maybe if a new topic is started we can attemped to remain civil and communicate without any trolling, subtle or not... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, considereing why this thread was created to begin with it was practically doomed from the start. I am suprised how long it actually lasted.
Thanks again!
<strong>
When you pull out all the snide comments and witty (I suppose) reparte this seems to be what your answer boils down to. Correct?
[edit] placed the books back in as I did ask what books.
[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I've been away for a while and missed what was obviously a writhing monster of a thread. Even if this thread is semi-dormant now, I just wanted to respond to NoahJ's comments, because it would be rude not to:Yes, that's what my answer boils down to.
And I didn't intend my comments to be snide, I was just trying to make a point which so often gets overlooked with all the Bible-thumping on these boards.
<strong>
Your god has the power to stop evil and yet he doesn't claiming he'll sort everything out in the end. He can't mess with free will. Well, that's analogous to a police officer holding a shotgun to a criminal's head allowing the criminal to go on a rampage killing many people and then after the rampage is over, pulling the trigger. That's called too little, too late. The police officer could have stopped the acts but the bastard decided not to. The police officer is just as guilty as the criminal. God could have stopped the acts but the bastard decided not to.
If I had the power to stop an evil act from occuring, I would stop it. See, I'm more benevolent than your freaking cruel bastard of a god. BOW DOWN BEFORE ME AND WORSHIP THE BENEVOLENT ONE.
I really don't care if satan will pay fully for his actions after the fact. God could have stopped them but his inaction was just as much of a crime. Will god pay for his inactions?
All you are saying is that god uses free will as an excuse to have front row seats to a bloodbath that he could stop at any time and he'll try to make it all right in the end by punishing the pawns in his sick, twisted, sadistic little game.
Your god is evil. Your god is cruel. Worship me, for I am benevolent.
EDIT: Fixed random typos.
[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]
[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is one of the hoariest and IMHO weakest arguments in the atheistic camp:- if there's a God, how come He/ She/ It lets bad things happen? (Does God have a gender?)
This argument assumes that the concept of God is somehow dependent on judgements and assumptions we make about He/ She/ It - that God is loving, etc. Whereas if you think about it, the concept of God really depends on whether the universe as we know it could exist without some sort of ultimate intelligence or controlling mechanism. Go to each extreme of the universe - the farthest galaxies and the tiniest subatomic particles, and the universe disappears into mystery and an unknown void.
And 'why does God let bad things happen?' argument also assumes, taking a different tack, that suffering and pain are always completely bad things with no purpose. Not a very well designed universe if that's the case, eh? I like the concept of reincarnation here. Looked at from the point of view of one life, suffering and pain seems wrong, but looked at across the span of many lives, suffering may serve a function. Maybe suffering in physical lives allows people to evolve spiritually (if I can use that term) - the development of wisdom through experience. Okay, end of nutty sermon! Oh dear, is that a lotus flower I see before me?
<strong>
This is one of the hoariest and IMHO weakest arguments in the atheistic camp:- if there's a God, how come He/ She/ It lets bad things happen? (Does God have a gender?)
This argument assumes that the concept of God is somehow dependent on judgements and assumptions we make about He/ She/ It - that God is loving, etc. Whereas if you think about it, the concept of God really depends on whether the universe as we know it could exist without some sort of ultimate intelligence or controlling mechanism. Go to each extreme of the universe - the farthest galaxies and the tiniest subatomic particles, and the universe disappears into mystery and an unknown void.
And 'why does God let bad things happen?' argument also assumes, taking a different tack, that suffering and pain are always completely bad things with no purpose. Not a very well designed universe if that's the case, eh? I like the concept of reincarnation here. Looked at from the point of view of one life, suffering and pain seems wrong, but looked at across the span of many lives, suffering may serve a function. Maybe suffering in physical lives allows people to evolve spiritually (if I can use that term) - the development of wisdom through experience. Okay, end of nutty sermon! Oh dear, is that a lotus flower I see before me?
I'm not atheist. I've been over that before.
You really need to pay attention to context. That comment was in response to Noah saying that satan won't get away with all his acts because he'll be punished in the end. Remember, when I said that, I was doing so under the guise of the christian view of the universe. So, when Noah mentioned that god would punish satan in the end for his evil acts and taking into account his acknowledgement that god is all powerful, I drew the conclusions that you responded to.
What you seem to fail to realize is that what I wrote is not what I really believe. As I said before, in order to demonstrate the stupidity that is built into christianity, I had to step into their universe and show that under their rules their god is evil. Remember, christianity dictates that all other religions are incorrect (along with all dissenting thought). The only way to refute these claims is to step into the flawed system and reveal said flaws.
<strong>
I'm not atheist. I've been over that before.
You really need to pay attention to context. That comment was in response to Noah saying that satan won't get away with all his acts because he'll be punished in the end. Remember, when I said that, I was doing so under the guise of the christian view of the universe. So, when Noah mentioned that god would punish satan in the end for his evil acts and taking into account his acknowledgement that god is all powerful, I drew the conclusions that you responded to.
What you seem to fail to realize is that what I wrote is not what I really believe. As I said before, in order to demonstrate the stupidity that is built into christianity, I had to step into their universe and show that under their rules their god is evil. Remember, christianity dictates that all other religions are incorrect (along with all dissenting thought). The only way to refute these claims is to step into the flawed system and reveal said flaws.</strong><hr></blockquote>
He was attempting to show how Christianity was what it was not. He put forth a strawman that was knocked down time and time again by me, and yet since he was the one who had stepped intoChristianity for a moment and put forth the assertion, he was the one who knew more about it than the ones who actually practiced it and thus his interpretation of it was the right one, while my own was fundamentally flawed and wrong.
Now this is not to say that he beleived what he said. Just to say that it was his attempt to interpret a "system" that he does not fully understand based on a few, quite biased, opinions and points not very well studied. As I said, made for an interesting and long topic that was hard fought.
However, an assertion put forth by a person with no real backup but the assertion itself is not a won argument. If you are going to step into the role of a Christian and argue christianity, you need to be prepared to argue it based on that premise. That means, you will have to show scripture that backs you up, not say, "I said it, the bible is false so it cannot be used as an argument, so I win." So in truth, you never really did as you claim.
<strong>
He was attempting to show how Christianity was what it was not. He put forth a strawman that was knocked down time and time again by me, and yet since he was the one who had stepped intoChristianity for a moment and put forth the assertion, he was the one who knew more about it than the ones who actually practiced it and thus his interpretation of it was the right one, while my own was fundamentally flawed and wrong.
Now this is not to say that he beleived what he said. Just to say that it was his attempt to interpret a "system" that he does not fully understand based on a few, quite biased, opinions and points not very well studied. As I said, made for an interesting and long topic that was hard fought.
However, an assertion put forth by a person with no real backup but the assertion itself is not a won argument. If you are going to step into the role of a Christian and argue christianity, you need to be prepared to argue it based on that premise. That means, you will have to show scripture that backs you up, not say, "I said it, the bible is false so it cannot be used as an argument, so I win." So in truth, you never really did as you claim.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Knocked down like a straw man? Hah. My message went in one ear and out the other while you were just mumbling the party line.
[ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</p>
<strong>
Knocked down like a straw man? Hah. My message went in one ear and out the other while you were just mumbling the party line.
[ 05-13-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mumbling? My recollection ws that I was shouting, must have been some ohter argument where you and others were telling me that...
However, you do know what a strawman argument is right? If so, then youwill know it is not something to get riled over. A person puts out a premise, that may or may not be right. That premise is called in some circles a strawman argument. Once it is built up people pick it apart and see if it falls down or not. Simple debate term, not an insult.
<strong>
I'm not atheist. I've been over that before.
You really need to pay attention to context. That comment was in response to Noah saying that satan won't get away with all his acts because he'll be punished in the end. Remember, when I said that, I was doing so under the guise of the christian view of the universe. So, when Noah mentioned that god would punish satan in the end for his evil acts and taking into account his acknowledgement that god is all powerful, I drew the conclusions that you responded to.
What you seem to fail to realize is that what I wrote is not what I really believe. As I said before, in order to demonstrate the stupidity that is built into christianity, I had to step into their universe and show that under their rules their god is evil. Remember, christianity dictates that all other religions are incorrect (along with all dissenting thought). The only way to refute these claims is to step into the flawed system and reveal said flaws.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, okay, I may not have read all six pages of this thread in fine detail, and I might have lost a few of the nuances. So, Exercise, what do you think of The Blue Meanie's perspective on God then? NoahJ too?
<strong>
Well, okay, I may not have read all six pages of this thread in fine detail, and I might have lost a few of the nuances. So, Exercise, what do you think of The Blue Meanie's perspective on God then? NoahJ too?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think it's pointless to have a perspective on god. Whether it is the whacked out bible thumping beliefs of Noah or the more liberal beliefs that you have, it is arrogant and just plain silly to try to explain the unexplainable.
We are here, now. Deal with it. That's all that matters. Take all of your gods and shove it.
EDIT: random typos..
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</p>
<strong>
<snip>
:- if there's a God, how come He/ She/ It lets bad things happen? (Does God have a gender?)
This argument assumes that the concept of God is somehow dependent on judgements and assumptions we make about He/ She/ It - that God is loving, etc. Whereas if you think about it, the concept of God really depends on whether the universe as we know it could exist without some sort of ultimate intelligence or controlling mechanism. Go to each extreme of the universe - the farthest galaxies and the tiniest subatomic particles, and the universe disappears into mystery and an unknown void. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree here, I think completely. we try as hard as we can to let God be God, but our limited minds still want to place him on a power meter, love meter, righteousness meter, etc, which limits him.
[quote]<strong>And 'why does God let bad things happen?' argument also assumes, taking a different tack, that suffering and pain are always completely bad things with no purpose. Not a very well designed universe if that's the case, eh?</strong><hr></blockquote>
There is much to be gained from suffering and going through hard times. It builds character and faith just for two good things. Agreed here as well.
[quote]<strong> I like the concept of reincarnation here. Looked at from the point of view of one life, suffering and pain seems wrong, but looked at across the span of many lives, suffering may serve a function. Maybe suffering in physical lives allows people to evolve spiritually (if I can use that term) - the development of wisdom through experience. Okay, end of nutty sermon! Oh dear, is that a lotus flower I see before me?
Here is where I disagree. Reincarnation is false by what is written in the bible. It is appointed for man once to die and then the judgement. No reincarnation there.
That answer your question The Blue Meanie?
Here is where I disagree. Reincarnation is false by what is written in the bible. It is appointed for man once to die and then the judgement. No reincarnation there.
[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Thump thump thump.
Everyone do the bible thump.
Thump thump thump.
If it's not in there,
it can't be right.
I'm an arrogant prick
and all non-believers I'll smite!
Thump thump thump.
Everyone do the bible thump.
Thump thump thump.
Go Jesus! Go Jesus!
Thump thump thump.
Everyone do the bible thump.
Thump thump thump.
<strong>
Here is where I disagree. Reincarnation is false by what is written in the bible. It is appointed for man once to die and then the judgement. No reincarnation there.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>If it's not in there,
it can't be right.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, you got part of it right. If it disagrees with what the bible says outright, it is not correct.
[quote]<strong>I'm an arrogant prick
and all non-believers I'll smite!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I of course disagree with the first part of the statement, and as far as the second part, the only smiting that has been going on around here has come from you sir.
<strong>
Umm, yeah, and since it is in comic form it carries a lot of weight. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
<strong>
Umm, yeah, and since it is in comic form it carries a lot of weight. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Being in comic form doesn't preclude it from being correct either. Hell, half the stuff in the bible is quite comical.
[ 05-15-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</p>
<strong>
the only smiting that has been going on around here has come from you sir.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wrong. I'm just up front about it. What you do is even more perverse because you do it insidiously.
<strong>
Wrong. I'm just up front about it. What you do is even more perverse because you do it insidiously.</strong><hr></blockquote>
"since you do it, it's ok that I do it." Yeah.
Show me the last time I have told you that you were going to hell. You are alone in the smiting department sir.
<strong>
I think it's pointless to have a perspective on god. Whether it is the whacked out bible thumping beliefs of Noah or the more liberal beliefs that you have, it is arrogant and just plain silly to try to explain the unexplainable.
We are here, now. Deal with it. That's all that matters. Take all of your gods and shove it.
EDIT: random typos..
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I'm glad you think The Blue Meanie's beliefs are liberal, but I'm not so sure a "shove it" attiitude takes us very far. Having said that, I would agree that right here, right now is what really counts.
[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: The Blue Meanie ]</p>