Nice how you do not answer the points I make and resort to attacking me once more. I was not speaking as you being sad, but the attitude behind your post. But, that is ok. I have already seen that you do are not interested in conversation or discussion. You are so convinced you are right and I am wrong that anything I said, even if it agreed slightly with you, would be wrong. Sad, really.
<strong>Nice how you do not answer the points I make and resort to attacking me once more. I was not speaking as you being sad, but the attitude behind your post. But, that is ok. I have already seen that you do are not interested in conversation or discussion. You are so convinced you are right and I am wrong that anything I said, even if it agreed slightly with you, would be wrong. Sad, really.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, I'm not convinced I'm right. I'm just convinced you are wrong. I really couldn't care less whether or not there is a god. I just find your viewpoint to be ignorant.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
No, I'm not convinced I'm right. I'm just convinced you are wrong. I really couldn't care less whether or not there is a god. I just find your viewpoint to be ignorant.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are convinced you are right, otherwise how would you know I was wrong? Why don't you admit it? You have been brutally honest up till now.
You are convinced you are right, otherwise how would you know I was wrong? Why don't you admit it? You have been brutally honest up till now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Again, you fail to understand. I am convinced that I don't care to make up silly stories to explain the unexplainable. I'm convinced that your silly story is just that: a silly story. I do not claim to know the answers to any of the questions that can't possibly be answered.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
Again, you fail to understand. I am convinced that I don't care to make up silly stories to explain the unexplainable. I'm convinced that your silly story is just that: a silly story. I do not claim to know the answers to any of the questions that can't possibly be answered.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So I'm a stupid person who believes silly stories and you just have no idea what the real truth is? Is that what you are saying?
If so, then you are arrogant if not knowing the truth you feel that you know that my answer is absolutely wrong without knowing what the answer really is. Just because you don't agree with it does not make me stupid, or weak minded, or intolerant. And if you say it does just based on my beleifs I have stated here and nothing more then you are acting like the dictionary definition of an intolerant bigot. Especially towards me and Christianity in general. But then again, that cannot apply to you can it. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
So I'm a stupid person who believes silly stories and you just have no idea what the real truth is? Is that what you are saying?
If so, then you are arrogant if not knowing the truth you feel that you know that my answer is absolutely wrong without knowing what the answer really is. Just because you don't agree with it does not make me stupid, or weak minded, or intolerant. And if you say it does just based on my beleifs I have stated here and nothing more then you are acting like the dictionary definition of an intolerant bigot. Especially towards me and Christianity in general. But then again, that cannot apply to you can it. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Garbage In->Garbage Out.
Christianity is intolerant and I have a firm stance of intolerance to intolerance.
Q. What should people place their religious beliefs in if not the bible?
A. Easy. Whatever suits their purpose. Whether it be the Q'uran, Torah, Trees, the Sun, Fish, whatever.
Who cares what people base their superstitions on, really? There are tons of them out there. They can either all be right, or they can all be wrong, or a person can pick one and be happy with it.
Who cares? There isn't any evidence to back up any religion. Hence Faith being "a belief based on something for which there is no evidence".
You want evidence look to science. You want faith, pick a god.
<strong>Q. What should people place their religious beliefs in if not the bible?
A. Easy. Whatever suits their purpose. Whether it be the Q'uran, Torah, Trees, the Sun, Fish, whatever.
Who cares what people base their superstitions on, really? There are tons of them out there. They can either all be right, or they can all be wrong, or a person can pick one and be happy with it.
Who cares? There isn't any evidence to back up any religion. Hence Faith being "a belief based on something for which there is no evidence".
You want evidence look to science. You want faith, pick a god.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So religion is what you make it? And you should be allowed to invent whatever religious experience you want to so long as it suits you and your purposes then?
So religion is what you make it? And you should be allowed to invent whatever religious experience you want to so long as it suits you and your purposes then?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I guess so. Afterall, it's what humans have been doing since we first got scared of creepy sounds in the dark and weather that wipes out our crops.
Of course, now we have flashlights, tractors, and irrigation, so our gods have changed.
We don't have raindances or sacrificial lambs, we have Sunday mass, confession and dial-a-prayer while you watch the telepreacher pretend to "heal people".
<strong>We don't have raindances or sacrificial lambs, we have Sunday mass, confession and dial-a-prayer while you watch the telepreacher pretend to "heal people".</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree partially here. People are changing their religion to match the fast food culture they live in. They want instant answers from a vending machine god. Plug in two prayers with the right words and out pops a new job and reconciliation with your angry teen.
However, healing is real, even if it is faked in some instances I have known people who were healed of softball sized cancer growths in their stomach and other such deadly diseases. And to clarify, they went to the Doctor, had the MRI, probes, tissue samples, etc. Found to be malignant. went to church, recieved prayer for a healing and for wisdom for the doctors. Went back to the doctor to start radiaton treatment and there was no tumor anymore. This is a real life story. The doctors were baffled. In one case a radiologist refused to believe the tumor was gone and did a whole regiment of tests, and found nothing. Needless to say he was baffled. Healing happens. Really.
Yeah, "healing" happens. I knew a gay guy once who had a throat tumor - some gland or something. He wasn't religious or anything though. He did a lot of meditation, mind over matter and diet type stuff and the thing pretty much went away.
I think he might have tried some acupuncture. He was into a lot of alternative stuff.
Religion requires faith. Faith is belief without proof. Attempting to prove religion nullifies whatever faith you have because faith is belief WITHOUT proof. You have no faith. Under your arbitrary christian rules, you are going to hell.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
Religion requires faith. Faith is belief without proof. Attempting to prove religion nullifies whatever faith you have because faith is belief WITHOUT proof. You have no faith. Under your arbitrary christian rules, you are going to hell.
Have a nice eternity. Give my regards to lucifer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wrong.
[edit]Let me expand a bit. Faith is the belief in things unseen, true. Religion requires faith, true. If you prove that your religion and your God is real you are going to hell. False.
The only thing Jesus ever said about proof was about those who were asking him to perform a miracle to prove he was the son of God. He responded that it is a perverse and wicked generation that requires a sign. There is nothing wrong with seeking to prove your viewpoint, there is however something wrong with requiring a sign from God before you will beleive in him. You sir appear to be on the wrong side of this argument. Sorry.
When trying to prove your beliefs, you no longer have faith.
To believe in a god, you must have faith.
When trying to prove your belief in a god, you lose that faith.
You have repeatedly tried to "prove" your faith. Proof and faith cannot co-exist. You do not have faith in god. You are going to hell. Give my regards to the big dude with the horns.
[edit]Let me expand a bit. Faith is the belief in things unseen, true. Religion requires faith, true. If you prove that your religion and your God is real you are going to hell. False.
The only thing Jesus ever said about proof was about those who were asking him to perform a miracle to prove he was the son of God. He responded that it is a perverse and wicked generation that requires a sign. There is nothing wrong with seeking to prove your viewpoint, there is however something wrong with requiring a sign from God before you will beleive in him. You sir appear to be on the wrong side of this argument. Sorry.
I am on the wrong side of the argument? You are the one bantering about with your ridiculous stories that your parents taught you because their parents taught them because their parents taught them, et cetera. Religion is an accident of birth. It's silly. It really is. You want to know why one can't fight religion with logic? Religion isn't logical. It's illogic at its finest. You only believe what you believe because you were born into the damn "faith" (which I already proved you no longer have because you try to prove your faith). Quit being a pussy and stop confusing life's repercussions with grand design.
EDIT: fixed random typos
[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</p>
An accident of birth? Really. And all those people who "find" religion in their later years who grew up athiest households or simply non-religious households must be accidents of society then? Are we going to call religious people accidents of nature next. Maybe we should wipe them all out and stop this "accident" from spreading?
I just don't understand how an omnipotent God would let people like this, and child molesting priests, be his representatives. I mean, what's the allure??
It's almost as though you have to be weak minded to buy into it. Not saying you're weak minded Noah. You're probably not a 700 club fan. But religious obsession, raptures et al, just seems to border on something not quite healthy.
<strong>An accident of birth? Really. And all those people who "find" religion in their later years who grew up athiest households or simply non-religious households must be accidents of society then? Are we going to call religious people accidents of nature next. Maybe we should wipe them all out and stop this "accident" from spreading? </strong><hr></blockquote>
The first religion you have IS an accident of birth. If you "find" a religion later in life, you are just an ignorant toad.
Comments
<strong>Nice how you do not answer the points I make and resort to attacking me once more. I was not speaking as you being sad, but the attitude behind your post. But, that is ok. I have already seen that you do are not interested in conversation or discussion. You are so convinced you are right and I am wrong that anything I said, even if it agreed slightly with you, would be wrong. Sad, really.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, I'm not convinced I'm right. I'm just convinced you are wrong. I really couldn't care less whether or not there is a god. I just find your viewpoint to be ignorant.
<strong>
No, I'm not convinced I'm right. I'm just convinced you are wrong. I really couldn't care less whether or not there is a god. I just find your viewpoint to be ignorant.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are convinced you are right, otherwise how would you know I was wrong? Why don't you admit it? You have been brutally honest up till now.
<strong>
You are convinced you are right, otherwise how would you know I was wrong? Why don't you admit it? You have been brutally honest up till now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Again, you fail to understand. I am convinced that I don't care to make up silly stories to explain the unexplainable. I'm convinced that your silly story is just that: a silly story. I do not claim to know the answers to any of the questions that can't possibly be answered.
<strong>
Again, you fail to understand. I am convinced that I don't care to make up silly stories to explain the unexplainable. I'm convinced that your silly story is just that: a silly story. I do not claim to know the answers to any of the questions that can't possibly be answered.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So I'm a stupid person who believes silly stories and you just have no idea what the real truth is? Is that what you are saying?
If so, then you are arrogant if not knowing the truth you feel that you know that my answer is absolutely wrong without knowing what the answer really is. Just because you don't agree with it does not make me stupid, or weak minded, or intolerant. And if you say it does just based on my beleifs I have stated here and nothing more then you are acting like the dictionary definition of an intolerant bigot. Especially towards me and Christianity in general. But then again, that cannot apply to you can it. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>
So I'm a stupid person who believes silly stories and you just have no idea what the real truth is? Is that what you are saying?
If so, then you are arrogant if not knowing the truth you feel that you know that my answer is absolutely wrong without knowing what the answer really is. Just because you don't agree with it does not make me stupid, or weak minded, or intolerant. And if you say it does just based on my beleifs I have stated here and nothing more then you are acting like the dictionary definition of an intolerant bigot. Especially towards me and Christianity in general. But then again, that cannot apply to you can it. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Garbage In->Garbage Out.
Christianity is intolerant and I have a firm stance of intolerance to intolerance.
<strong>
Garbage In->Garbage Out.
Christianity is intolerant and I have a firm stance of intolerance to intolerance.</strong><hr></blockquote>
An eye for an eye, eh?
A. Easy. Whatever suits their purpose. Whether it be the Q'uran, Torah, Trees, the Sun, Fish, whatever.
Who cares what people base their superstitions on, really? There are tons of them out there. They can either all be right, or they can all be wrong, or a person can pick one and be happy with it.
Who cares? There isn't any evidence to back up any religion. Hence Faith being "a belief based on something for which there is no evidence".
You want evidence look to science. You want faith, pick a god.
and
<a href="http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/rr1995/r&r9505a.htm?google.com"; target="_blank">http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/rr1995/r&r9505a.htm?google.com</a>;
[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>
<strong>Q. What should people place their religious beliefs in if not the bible?
A. Easy. Whatever suits their purpose. Whether it be the Q'uran, Torah, Trees, the Sun, Fish, whatever.
Who cares what people base their superstitions on, really? There are tons of them out there. They can either all be right, or they can all be wrong, or a person can pick one and be happy with it.
Who cares? There isn't any evidence to back up any religion. Hence Faith being "a belief based on something for which there is no evidence".
You want evidence look to science. You want faith, pick a god.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So religion is what you make it? And you should be allowed to invent whatever religious experience you want to so long as it suits you and your purposes then?
<strong>
So religion is what you make it? And you should be allowed to invent whatever religious experience you want to so long as it suits you and your purposes then?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I guess so. Afterall, it's what humans have been doing since we first got scared of creepy sounds in the dark and weather that wipes out our crops.
Of course, now we have flashlights, tractors, and irrigation, so our gods have changed.
We don't have raindances or sacrificial lambs, we have Sunday mass, confession and dial-a-prayer while you watch the telepreacher pretend to "heal people".
<strong>We don't have raindances or sacrificial lambs, we have Sunday mass, confession and dial-a-prayer while you watch the telepreacher pretend to "heal people".</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree partially here. People are changing their religion to match the fast food culture they live in. They want instant answers from a vending machine god. Plug in two prayers with the right words and out pops a new job and reconciliation with your angry teen.
However, healing is real, even if it is faked in some instances I have known people who were healed of softball sized cancer growths in their stomach and other such deadly diseases. And to clarify, they went to the Doctor, had the MRI, probes, tissue samples, etc. Found to be malignant. went to church, recieved prayer for a healing and for wisdom for the doctors. Went back to the doctor to start radiaton treatment and there was no tumor anymore. This is a real life story. The doctors were baffled. In one case a radiologist refused to believe the tumor was gone and did a whole regiment of tests, and found nothing. Needless to say he was baffled. Healing happens. Really.
I think he might have tried some acupuncture. He was into a lot of alternative stuff.
crazy.
<strong><a href="http://www.godandscience.org/"; target="_blank">http://www.godandscience.org/</a>;
and
<a href="http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/rr1995/r&r9505a.htm?google.com"; target="_blank">http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/rr1995/r&r9505a.htm?google.com</a>;
[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Religion requires faith. Faith is belief without proof. Attempting to prove religion nullifies whatever faith you have because faith is belief WITHOUT proof. You have no faith. Under your arbitrary christian rules, you are going to hell.
Have a nice eternity. Give my regards to lucifer.
<strong>
Religion requires faith. Faith is belief without proof. Attempting to prove religion nullifies whatever faith you have because faith is belief WITHOUT proof. You have no faith. Under your arbitrary christian rules, you are going to hell.
Have a nice eternity. Give my regards to lucifer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wrong.
[edit]Let me expand a bit. Faith is the belief in things unseen, true. Religion requires faith, true. If you prove that your religion and your God is real you are going to hell. False.
The only thing Jesus ever said about proof was about those who were asking him to perform a miracle to prove he was the son of God. He responded that it is a perverse and wicked generation that requires a sign. There is nothing wrong with seeking to prove your viewpoint, there is however something wrong with requiring a sign from God before you will beleive in him. You sir appear to be on the wrong side of this argument. Sorry.
[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>
<strong>
Wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wrong? How? My logic is flawless.
Faith is belief without proof.
When trying to prove your beliefs, you no longer have faith.
To believe in a god, you must have faith.
When trying to prove your belief in a god, you lose that faith.
You have repeatedly tried to "prove" your faith. Proof and faith cannot co-exist. You do not have faith in god. You are going to hell. Give my regards to the big dude with the horns.
<strong>
Wrong.
[edit]Let me expand a bit. Faith is the belief in things unseen, true. Religion requires faith, true. If you prove that your religion and your God is real you are going to hell. False.
The only thing Jesus ever said about proof was about those who were asking him to perform a miracle to prove he was the son of God. He responded that it is a perverse and wicked generation that requires a sign. There is nothing wrong with seeking to prove your viewpoint, there is however something wrong with requiring a sign from God before you will beleive in him. You sir appear to be on the wrong side of this argument. Sorry.
[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am on the wrong side of the argument? You are the one bantering about with your ridiculous stories that your parents taught you because their parents taught them because their parents taught them, et cetera. Religion is an accident of birth. It's silly. It really is. You want to know why one can't fight religion with logic? Religion isn't logical. It's illogic at its finest. You only believe what you believe because you were born into the damn "faith" (which I already proved you no longer have because you try to prove your faith). Quit being a pussy and stop confusing life's repercussions with grand design.
EDIT: fixed random typos
[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</p>
<a href="http://cbn.org/living/amazingstories/salvation-fallinglimb.asp"; target="_blank">http://cbn.org/living/amazingstories/salvation-fallinglimb.asp</a>;
That story is plain wacked out. Those people were practically taken advantage of in a time of need. Rapture...indeed!
More Dial-a-prayer:
<a href="http://cbn.com/700club/partners/YourMiracleCouldBeJustAPhoneCallAway.asp"; target="_blank">http://cbn.com/700club/partners/YourMiracleCouldBeJustAPhoneCallAway.asp</a>;
They even have a "Shop CBN" button.
I just don't understand how an omnipotent God would let people like this, and child molesting priests, be his representatives. I mean, what's the allure??
It's almost as though you have to be weak minded to buy into it. Not saying you're weak minded Noah. You're probably not a 700 club fan. But religious obsession, raptures et al, just seems to border on something not quite healthy.
<strong>An accident of birth? Really. And all those people who "find" religion in their later years who grew up athiest households or simply non-religious households must be accidents of society then? Are we going to call religious people accidents of nature next. Maybe we should wipe them all out and stop this "accident" from spreading?
The first religion you have IS an accident of birth. If you "find" a religion later in life, you are just an ignorant toad.