RIM plans to counter Apple's iPad with 'Blackpad' in November

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  • Reply 41 of 112
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    One of the most important entry barriers -- and one of the least talked-about -- that Apple has created for new entrants is its ability to combine perception of quality with high profit margins. They have hardware profit margins that competitors would kill for but cannot match, and yet manage to do this with (generally) high-quality components, esp. the ones that are visible and more expensive.



    Competitors can't match Apple's prices since they cannot match its product differentiation, so they are left with only one choice in their quest to match Apple's margins: offer lower quality to offset the required lower prices.



    Some might ask: why should RIM bother with margins? I can bet you that financial markets, and as a result their CEO and Board, will look at any new product intro through the lens of Apple's profit margins; anything less would be internally viewed as a second-class product, and be punished by the financial market (as Nokia and its CEO discovered to their peril).



    Bottom line: Companies like RIM are trapped on both the cost end (inferior quality) and the price end (lack of product differentiation). The only way forward for them is to create a product category that Apple has not yet taken on, instead of these feeble me-too attempts.



    It's not just perception, it's factually based. The raw materials going into Apple's machines and their assembly design process that they've patented in many areas allows Apple to be efficient in assembly, include higher quality capacitors, custom motherboards, higher quality batteries, etc., and get those high profit margins, where as the general PC clone vendor puts in bottom quality parts in assembly, capacitors, etc., until you suddenly see them come out with their one or two models that are their workstation class products and suddenly the cost is up there with Apple's, but with inferior design assembly, motherboard assembly with all the cables and non-passive backplane slots for hard drives, etc.
  • Reply 42 of 112
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member
    I think RIM is out of its depths. It's not just Apple that it has to contend with, but also HP, Google, Nokia and Samsung, all of which have deeper pockets and most of which have superior software creds.



    Apple particularly looks unstoppable. With all the news about AntennaGate, and today's iP4 launch is a mad success in Canada:



    http://www.ankleskater.com/pagemaker...20100730165200
  • Reply 43 of 112
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    One of the most important entry barriers -- and one of the least talked-about -- that Apple has created for new entrants is its ability to combine perception of quality with high profit margins. They have hardware profit margins that competitors would kill for but cannot match, and yet manage to do this with (generally) high-quality components, esp. the ones that are visible and more expensive.



    Competitors can't match Apple's prices since they cannot match its product differentiation, so they are left with only one choice in their quest to match Apple's margins: offer lower quality to offset the required lower prices.



    Some might ask: why should RIM bother with margins? I can bet you that financial markets, and as a result their CEO and Board, will look at any new product intro through the lens of Apple's profit margins; anything less would be internally viewed as a second-class product, and be punished by the financial market (as Nokia and its CEO discovered to their peril).



    Bottom line: Companies like RIM are trapped on both the cost end (inferior quality) and the price end (lack of product differentiation). The only way forward for them is to create a product category that Apple has not yet taken on, instead of these feeble me-too attempts.



    Very well said.



    They could theoretically compete with Apple on both price and product, but to me this clearly looks like a defensive move by RIM.
  • Reply 44 of 112
    veblenveblen Posts: 201member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post


    Could you please edit his comments out of yours? Those are not worth repeating here and apparently he edited his.



    Gotcha.
  • Reply 45 of 112
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    This is so obvious as to make me wonder about people that deny it.



    This is why I have a feeling that iPad will get rev'ed real soon possibly with the iPod refresh. Why you might ask, well for a couple of reasons. One is that more RAM is really needed in the iPad and iPhone clearly indicates that it is possible to beef up memory to better support 4.x. Second Facetime is likely to be supported in many Apple devices by the end of the year and such supportvin iPad would be welcomed by many.



    The key here is FaceTime and how strongly it is accepted in the market place. I could see the competition having huge problems if FaceTime takes off.



    In any event RIMs success or failure here means nothing. More important is the realization that Apple will have lots of competition in the near future. It is not impossible for one of those competitors to hit the right combo of features to be successful. After all it is a question of software, iPad actually has rather simple hardware.





    Dave
  • Reply 46 of 112
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Very well said.



    They could theoretically compete with Apple on both price and product, but to me this clearly looks like a defensive move by RIM.



    I think anyone planning on a tablet now is doing the right thing. Apple created this tablet market with a rich but highly optimized OS and UI from scratch so there is plenty of opportunities for others to jump in, especially those who have experience with leading HW and SW development for a mobile device the wy RiM does. I can easily see RiM being the 2nd most profitable tablet maker.
  • Reply 47 of 112
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    I assume the will have a pull out keyboard so they can use their thumbs. I clearly recall RIM and BB enthusiasts mocking any mention of virtual keyboards. Or do you think they will simply copy all Apple's ingenuity for their Pad as they have now with phones and make themselves look pretty lame?



    Good question. I obviously don't know, but if I were to speculate, it would have a virtual keyboard, but you never know. If the tablet had a physical keyboard, I would expect it to be full sized (landscape) with real keys, but to do it right would raise of the cost of producing the hardware and add weight & complexity. Apple showed that a multitouch virtual keyboard can in fact work very well.
  • Reply 48 of 112
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Bottom line: Companies like RIM are trapped on both the cost end (inferior quality) and the price end (lack of product differentiation).



    It is truly amazing then that such a sad, pathetic, horrible company such as RIM (by your analysis), manages to sell so many phones. If I recall, they outsold Apple last year. Yes, I am aware that it is one phone against many, but according to your view RIM is a company has a limited selection of shoddy inferior crappy products, and should not be selling many phones at all.



    Whether this product is successful is anybody's guess, and they have a steep uphill climb, but assert that RIM makes crappy phones is absurd.
  • Reply 49 of 112
    sheffsheff Posts: 1,407member
    Blackpad = A+ for the name, made me chuckle. We'll see how it will stack up in hardware/software though.
  • Reply 50 of 112
    Here come the sheep following the leader once again! RIM with its BaaaPad, Microsoft with its BaaaSlate, HP with its BaaaPalm, and Google with its whole flock of BaaaDroids.



    All will fail because they haven't yet worked out how to copy Apple's product development strategy involving integrated hardware, operating system and application development and delivery.



    They simply deserve to fail because they don't want to do all that essential R&D work that Apple has done over the past decade. They just want to do product development on the cheap and tap into the increasingly desperate and irrelevant anti-Apple market.
  • Reply 51 of 112
    WELL. I dont have an ipad because I am waiting for a good windows pad front beck camera with usb support BUT Rim himmm. I had an blackberry storm I will never ever buy any blackberry product again because I have never seen so clumsy operating system before.
  • Reply 52 of 112
    sheffsheff Posts: 1,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


    I think RIM is out of its depths. It's not just Apple that it has to contend with, but also HP, Google, Nokia and Samsung, all of which have deeper pockets and most of which have superior software creds.



    Apple particularly looks unstoppable. With all the news about AntennaGate, and today's iP4 launch is a mad success in Canada:



    http://www.ankleskater.com/pagemaker...20100730165200



    Are you kidding. No executive will rock an iPhone or android. Blackberry is as standard as the suit and tie and I doubt that will change. All RIM has to do is make sure it stays somewhat current (which it will with Blackberry 6) and just like MS they will have a long and healthy life in the enterprise. I doubt RIM really cares much for the consumer market.



    Addition: Well maybe some executives now that I think of it, but most business owners I've met had blackberries because they are blackberries and that's what business people use.
  • Reply 53 of 112
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I think anyone planning on a tablet now is doing the right thing. Apple created this tablet market with a rich but highly optimized OS and UI from scratch so there is plenty of opportunities for others to jump in, especially those who have experience with leading HW and SW development for a mobile device the wy RiM does. I can easily see RiM being the 2nd most profitable tablet maker.



    I've never owned a RIM product, so perhaps I am underrating their chances, but I really don't see what they are bringing to the table with this product that Apple has not done already. They apparently are not even trying to do anything original. A "me too" product isn't going to cut it at this point, IMO. It virtually concedes that Apple has already done it right and they're just trying to play catchup.
  • Reply 54 of 112
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I've never owned a RIM product, so perhaps I am underrating their chances, but I really don't see what they are bringing to the table with this product that Apple has not done already. They apparently are not even trying to do anything original. A "me too" product isn't going to cut it at this point, IMO. It virtually concedes that Apple has already done it right and they're just trying to play catchup.



    My wife loves her BB 9700, and to be honest, as a phone it is better than my 3G.



    RIM did not get to where they are by being some sort of cheap unskilled, unimagianitive maker of crap, as some on this board would have you believe. OTOH, they do have an uphill battle in this market.
  • Reply 55 of 112
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post


    It is truly amazing then that such a sad, pathetic, horrible company such as RIM (by your analysis), manages to sell so many phones. If I recall, they outsold Apple last year. Yes, I am aware that it is one phone against many, but according to your view RIM is a company has a limited selection of shoddy inferior crappy products.



    Whether this product is successful is anybody's guess, and they have a steep uphill climb, but assert that RIM makes crappy phones is absurd.



    1) Using unit sales doesn't help you help your point and reinforces anantksundaram's.



    2) RiM's ability to increase profits YoY despite the iPhone steadily creeping into its territory while others have fallen consoliderably is a testament to how well RiM is managed and would be a great counter-argument to RiM being "such a sad, pathetic, horrible company", but I can't see where he stated or even implied that. All he seems to have stated was RiM's need to make their own path, which implies a lack of creativity and/or risk taking, to which I agree.
  • Reply 56 of 112
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    1) Using unit sales doesn't help you help your point and reinforces anantksundaram's.



    2) RiM's ability to increase profits YoY despite the iPhone steadily creeping into its territory while others have fallen consoliderably is a testament to how well RiM is managed and would be a great counter-argument to RiM being "such a sad, pathetic, horrible company", but I can't see where he stated or even implied that. All he seems to have stated was RiM's need to make their own path, which implies a lack of creativity and/or risk taking, to which I agree.





    He stated that RIM is a company trapped by inferior quality, hence my statement regarding sad . .



    YoY profits are not relevant to the point he was making. He stated that RIM makes a limited number (lack of product differentiation) crappy (inferior quality) products.



    If that was really true, then they should not be selling many phones, no matter what the profit margin on a phone is or what their YoY profits are.
  • Reply 57 of 112
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I've never owned a RIM product, so perhaps I am underrating their chances, but I really don't see what they are bringing to the table with this product that Apple has not done already. They apparently are not even trying to do anything original. A "me too" product isn't going to cut it at this point, IMO. It virtually concedes that Apple has already done it right and they're just trying to play catchup.



    There is nothing with "me, too" products. In business you can 'lead, follow or get out of the way' with the latter being death of your product and/ company because you didnt do either of the first two things.



    Take Android OS and all these touch-based phones copying Apple's lead in a market they reinvented just 3 years ago. Cell phone vendors that were losing money each quarter are now back in the black from slim up their product line and focusing on the next "iPhone killer".



    The fact is, you can't be a leader unless you have followers and they follow because they benefit from your leadership.
  • Reply 58 of 112
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sheff View Post


    Blackpad = A+ for the name, made me chuckle. We'll see how it will stack up in hardware/software though.



    Tabula Onyx?
  • Reply 59 of 112
    justbobfjustbobf Posts: 261member
    Gee, original name.
  • Reply 60 of 112
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post


    He stated that RIM makes a limited number (lack of product differentiation) crappy (inferior quality) products.



    If that was really true, then they should not be selling many phones, no matter what the profit margin on a phone is or what their YoY profits are.



    It tends to be quite the opposite in most cases.
    1. McDonalds meal v. Ruth Chris' Steakhouse

    2. Mac OS X v. Windows

    3. MacBook Pros v. $400 Notebooks

    4. Something cheap v. Something expensive in the category

    The list is virtually endless. If it's cheaper it opens it up to more potential customers, but it also has to be more cheaply produced to make it viable for your market. Some things you work around to save costs without jeopardizing quality but typically it's done by cutting many corners, thus making a comparatively inferior product. RiM has done well to cut costs while maximizing profits (they're a great company), but I wouldn't call any RiM phone equal to or "ferior" to the iPhone.
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