RIM attempts to create Apple-like buzz with BlackBerry Torch event

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  • Reply 121 of 154
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    Nokia sells more than twice as many smartphones as Apple does.



    http://www.macdailynews.com/gfx/arti...martphones.gif



    That?s unit sales, not revenue, not profit. Apple became the most profitable handset maker in the world awhile ago. This is old news.
  • Reply 122 of 154
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by agolongo View Post


    I don?t mind it (The 9800) and OS6 looks to be vastly improved (Syncing over WIFI!). I know it doesn?t have an Apple logo on the back so it won?t get the majority of the Lemmings on this site to give it any consideration.



    "Apple-Like" Buzz? How do you know this, are you attending the event? Or is it a standard launch event like any other product? If it was truly an Apple-like event the audience would consist of a bunch or irrational disciples crying with every word that flowed out of the speaker?s mouth, and looking desperately for genitals on the new tech monolith to make love to.



    Ah, yet another paid shill taking up space.....
  • Reply 123 of 154
    ozexigeozexige Posts: 215member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by agolongo View Post


    .....

    .......I know it doesn?t have an Apple logo on the back so it won?t get the majority of the Lemmings on this site to give it any consideration.



    "Apple-Like" Buzz? How do you know this, are you attending the event? ...................



    hehe, Bias much?



    All 'Phone' launches are attempting an "Apple-Like" Buzz, where have you been?
  • Reply 124 of 154
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 799member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    That?s unit sales, not revenue, not profit. Apple became the most profitable handset maker in the world awhile ago. This is old news.



    Where has Apple directly provided current quarter iPhone profit margins (without lumping in profits form other revenue streams)?
  • Reply 125 of 154
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    Meh, I think it looks fine. It's no iPhone, but it's attractive in its own way. You guys do know that the iPhone isn't the only attractive phone on the market







    iPhones and Sony Ericssons, those are generally attractive. Blackberry? Just doesn't do it for me. That I despise standard boring corporate culture could have something to do with it. The only thing worse than a Blackberry phone is for me, having to wear a tie to work. I draw the line at a long-sleeved shirt and black shoes.



    BTW Nokias never really became attractive again after I switched to Sony E. five to six years ago.
  • Reply 126 of 154
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


    The kids are demanding the BB. BBM is simply better than texting and emailing on other phones.



    Yeah I guess I've never been heavy into texting and emailing is mainly done for work purposes. Maybe my social life sucks, or I prefer in-person contact. All this texting and facebooking, I wonder what real friendships you make out of it. Its good for keeping in touch with close friends and arranging to meet up, but like 30 texts a day and 3 hours to 5 hours of facebook each day, not for me...
  • Reply 127 of 154
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post




    In other words, why would millions of people throw their money away on such patently inferior products?





    For the same reason billions of people buy McDonald's hamburgers, or shop at Walmart .... price, price and only price .... certainly not because of them being of the highest quality. (and you're right .... buying such patently inferior products really is throwing your money away.)
  • Reply 128 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    Where has Apple directly provided current quarter iPhone profit margins (without lumping in profits form other revenue streams)?



    One can easily make a judgement from Segment Revenue and Units Sold (see the Notes section of the 10Qs), and making a conservative assumption regarding Net Income to Revenue (which, it is well-known, is higher on iPhones than for the company as a whole).



    Reasonable (ballpark) estimates? Nokia's forecasted profit (from all phone sales) for 2010 is likely in the region of $1B, RIM's (again from all phone sales) is $3B, which Apple's is well in excess of $4B.



    Nokia is not anywhere near the most profitable, not by a long shot.
  • Reply 129 of 154
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    Where has Apple directly provided current quarter iPhone profit margins (without lumping in profits form other revenue streams)?



    From their Q3-2010 press release, conference call...
    "The Company sold 8.4 million iPhones in the quarter, representing 61 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter.”



    "iPhone had an average selling price of $595.”
    Remember, that is their revenue per phone not profit.



    But here is a reputable site that has run the numbers for you.
    Apple not only makes more profit than any other handset vendor but also is moving to make more profit than everyone else together.



    Note, we’re talking about the entire handset market, not just smartphones. There is a reason why so Moto (and at least one other) have focused on a single high-end product at a time and have actually gone from red to black.



    But if you don’t believe me you can read about it on this fanboy site: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1051937420091110
  • Reply 130 of 154
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sophace View Post




    One thing that RIM is finally starting to capitalize on for the consumer market is BB Messenger. People are sticking with their BlackBerry's because their friends have them and using BBM is free and very convenient. This phone could help with the texting/web trade off too.



    My 2 cents.



    Apple is aware of this. So far they are allowing app developers to sort this out (eg WhatsApp). But if Apple took the reigns and competed with BB messenger having to use touchscreen would be more acceptable to that market.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stillman View Post


    Not sure about this. Isn't the screen resolution a bit on the low side for a supposed flagship device? And a keyboard and touchscreen combined? I mean who is crying out for both?



    I've nothing against Blackberry. Professional-looking devices. But it just feels a bit desperate. And is it gonna be that much cheaper than an iPhone?



    It should be cheaper than the iPhone, I'm guessing.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


    They use BBM for several reasons. Its included in the BB service, meaning it doesn't count as a SMS/MMS, the msgs aren't limited to 160 characters and its almost instantaneous.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


    Begging to differ, BlackBerries have become quite popular amongst teenagers. Just look around. This is because RIM has continued to expand its competitive advantage when it comes to messaging. Someone else mentioned this somewhere above:The BlackBerry messaging (BBM) system is proprietary and independent of texting or emails. Teens like it because you can easily set up groups and invite others to join. Once teens join a group, they are effectively hooked on Crackberry.



    As I mentioned, Apple could step in and compete with their own official system. However, how would the data you use be adjusted accordingly? Could that data be isolated and considered not part of your monthly quota? This would be great then. But that would mean some sort of Apple Messaging protocol that all carriers would need to roll out. Could be tough to implement uniformly across the world.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sonicsands View Post


    Agreed. In fact, I see no disagreement herein. I root for RIM but the Torch doesn't quite cut it as it's at best a catch-up product at a time when they need more than that. 8 GB, sub-gigahertz processor, all inferior specs. But I'm happy to see they finally caught up on the web browsing front.



    I do have a question. In all Apple stores, you can test use the iPhones including Facetime, calling and web surfing. Where I live, all carriers only have fake phones on display and so I can only buy BBs and Android phones on spec. Is this the same everywhere?



    I have actually grown to hate the mobile phone industry in many ways over the past decade. And I am glad Apple gave everyone a kick in the nuts, at the risk of them being embroiled and party to mobile industry annoyances. Afaik around the world, mobile phones are usually all dummy displays except for specific concept stores in major cities... Only Apple really specifies that virtually all resellers must use a functioning demo unit.
  • Reply 131 of 154
    sennensennen Posts: 1,465member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    Meh, I think it looks fine. It's no iPhone, but it's attractive in its own way. You guys do know that the iPhone isn't the only attractive phone on the market



    Whilst not to my taste, I agree. Some people knock apple's competitor's efforts simply because they are apple's competitors.
  • Reply 132 of 154
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Can you clarify average selling price for some of us? That would be helpful. I thought asp is the average revenue (not profit) for each unit. Therefore asp x units sold = revenue for that segment. Therefore 8 million times $600 = 4800 million or 4.8 billion. Then profit for this segment, is, say 40% on the high side which is less then 2.4 billion. Oh but thats one quarter, so we are looking at about 10 billion for the year on the high side. Am I counting things right? Haven't installed a calculator app for my iPad yet



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    From their latest 2010-Q3 results press release, conference call and Yahoo?s finance to get their net income...
    "The Company sold 8.4 million iPhones in the quarter, representing 61 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter.?



    "iPhone had an average selling price of $595.?
    Remember, that is their overall net profit. Do you think the iPhone is responsible for more or less of their profit? I think we all know the answer to that.



    But here is a reputable site that has run the numbers for you.
    Apple not only makes more profit than any other handset vendor but also is moving to make more profit than everyone else together.



    Note, we?re talking about the entire handset market, not just smartphones. There is a reason why so Moto (and at least one other) have focused on a single high-end product at a time and have actually gone from red to black.



    But if you don?t believe me you can read about it on this fanboy site: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1051937420091110



  • Reply 133 of 154
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Can you clarify average selling price for some of us? That would be helpful. I thought asp is the average revenue (not profit) for each unit. Therefore asp x units sold = revenue for that segment. Therefore 8 million times $600 = 4800 million or 4.8 billion. Then profit for this segment, is, say 40% on the high side which is less then 2.4 billion. Oh but thats one quarter, so we are looking at about 10 billion for the year on the high side. Am I counting things right? Haven't installed a calculator app for my iPad yet



    Your math looks right to me and, yes, $595 is for revenue, not profit of the iPhone. According to my calculations based on Yahoo! Finance we get 39.08% gross profit, 26.97% operating income and 20.70% net income.



    But that is for all areas of business for the quarter, and I think we can assume the iPhone does better for Apple than other legs of their business. Still, even with that average it’s still damn impressive, shows a clear lead. On top of that, we’re using the quarter in which iPhone sales and supply are dramatically slowed as a new model gets released at the end of that quarter. I would image Q4-2010 will be even more impressive for iPhone sales and profit.
  • Reply 134 of 154
    benicebenice Posts: 382member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bagman View Post


    Wow- I'm a moderate Republican, but I refuse to watch Fox, due to obvious bias. Why would you possibly think Fox is the most trusted news site (among Republicans, perhaps, but how bout everyone else). Give me a break, and give me a trusted link to back up your remark.



    Here's a link from what I believe is an apolitical source http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/32039.html



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    He thinks it is because Fox News tells him so



    I don't actually watch it but someone here was trying to equate AppleInsider and Fox News as being the same thing. Was it you? Either way it's unfair to try and trash either.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by isaidso View Post


    Wow. What you don't know about polling....



    I agree very small sample size and we know nothing about where it was conducted. But the poll was conducted by what is a trusted polling group linked to the Democrats. If anything it means the results might be more biased to suit the Democrats right?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rorybalmer View Post


    lol The most trusted news source in America... According to fox news commercials.



    They probably all claim something like that or whatever they can get away with!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justflybob View Post


    Oh, puhleaze...



    By whom? Those that can't think, or those can and don't?



    Public Policy Polling. Assumedly each person polled thought about their answer.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.








    I agree, it's a shame. Happens in the movies too.



    Finally, I don't want to take the thread off topic and I was never the one who compared AppleInsider to Fox News.
  • Reply 135 of 154
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,181member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


    Meh, I think it looks fine. It's no iPhone, but it's attractive in its own way. You guys do know that the iPhone isn't the only attractive phone on the market







    Oh, but love is blind....



    I think what most other handsets are lacking isn't so much about looks. The combination of multi-touch, the GUI, and the simplicity of the iPhone creates "intimacy". It becomes 'personal' very quickly. That's something most phones lack. They are still "all business", or mostly so, in the relationship one creates with them...



    I know all this may sound a bit odd, but in fact it's deeply integrated with Apple's overall brand, masterfully managed by the team at Apple. It isn't only about marketing, but creating products that enable empathy, and easily establish themselves in the framework of one's own identity... few product lines manage to create "emotional ownership" as readily as Apple products do. In fact, they're designed to do just that. One of the ways they do that is they consistently meet and exceed expectations.



    It isn't a bad thing....



    So even if it isn't the nicest looking object out there, when someone 'adores' it, it becomes the most attractive... not too different from love, is it...
  • Reply 136 of 154
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,181member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benice View Post


    Fox News is considered the most trusted news source in America and you're trying to equate it somehow to a single issue website.



    The most trusted news source.......?? You can't be serious.



    Fair and balanced too? Uh-huh...





    Personally, I'll keep my 'questionably trustworthy' 60 minutes and Mother Jones, thanks.
  • Reply 137 of 154
    The only reason the iPhone has been successful is because of the media events. Everyone I see is so excited about September and of course the gleam in our eye's for the Windows 8 party. I'M SO EXCITED! LOADS OF ACTIVITIES!
  • Reply 138 of 154
    .



    Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen said RIM would bring Flash support to its devices in the

    xxxxxx

    second third half of this year.



    .
  • Reply 139 of 154
    dean812dean812 Posts: 32member
    IPhones trump ANY Blackberry. And when are they gonna learn that virtual keyboards are what pol want?! Instead of somev3 inch thick slider?! Rimjobs failsvagain.
  • Reply 140 of 154
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    Step 1: Post in thread, writing something vaguely positive about an Apple competitor

    Step 2: Get distracted by other things, carry on with life

    Step 3: Come back to thread to find 20,000 replies from anantksundaram



    Well, yes, it's obviously Apple that's top of the profits league table but RIM outperform the rest of the market by a long distance too. I don't see how me mentioning this is braggadocio though. I don't work for RIM, so what would I be boasting about? Only people like Daniel Eran Dilger boast about other people's success.



    I was simply trying to put things into perspective after reading several "RIM are doomed" posts.
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