thing is, he's not afraid to say when he's called something incorrectly. and for an apple proponent he also points out where they've gone wrong or could be doing better, as well as pointing out strengths of other platforms.
The frustrating thing is that both companies (Apple and Verizon) would need to do some back peddling. They've both mocked each other in ads (Apple with the "no data while in voice call" and Verizon with the recent "Grip of Death-you can hold our phones any way you'd like" ads). If this is true, which I'm still struggling to believe, they will have to play off the mocking like it never happened.
South Korea, which recently approved the iPhone for its cellular networks, has CDMA only. Apple needs to produce a unique variant of the iPhone for that market. The iPhone continues to have higher penetration overseas than in the US.
South Korea, which recently approved the iPhone for its cellular networks, has CDMA only. Apple needs to produce a unique variant of the iPhone for that market. The iPhone continues to have higher penetration overseas than in the US.
How does this BS get pushed around. Yeah, they only have CDMA for their '2G' network but two of the three MNOs have UMTS/HSPA for their '3G' network. Only LG, the smallest of the three MNOs with something like 11M subs, uses CDMA2000/EV-DO for '3G'.
On top of that, THE iPHONE HAS BEEN SELLING IN SOUTH KOREA SINCE 2009. It's one of the top five fastest growing iPhone countries with 200k unit sales in 5 months. All using the standard 3GS and all working fine.
PS: China's entire CDMA subscriber base is only 65M.
Let me check. Yep AAPL just hit 375! Hellooooo.... Are you still there? I guess Verizon has dropped calls after all. Oh... did I do that?
There is no VZW stock, its lumped in with VZs landline side which isn't doing great even with the FIOS. The numbers would be better if it was a standalone stock and I'm sure ATTs stock suffers from the same thing.
How does this BS get pushed around. Yeah, they only have CDMA for their '2G' network but two of the three MNOs have UMTS/HSPA for their '3G' network. Only LG, the smallest of the three MNOs with something like 11M subs, uses CDMA2000/EV-DO for '3G'.
On top of that, THE iPHONE HAS BEEN SELLING IN SOUTH KOREA SINCE 2009. It's one of the top five fastest growing iPhone countries with 200k unit sales in 5 months. All using the standard 3GS and all working fine.
PS: China's entire CDMA subscriber base is only 65M.
Soli you're a saint. Don't you get tired of telling these guys the same thing over and over? I think you were being very kind when you said we might be intelligent bots.
I enjoy Gruber's work and, from what I hear, isn't exactly the nicest guy in the world to put it nicely. But I do give credit where it's due.
Maybe "prediction" is the wrong word. It's clear he has people on the inside who have a lot wide-ranging knowledge of Apple product development since his rumors are on both the Mac and iOS. As does AI.
Oh yeah. Totally agree. I read his site most days (although I almost quit when he made the ads un-blockable). He's a smart guy who knows what he's talking about.
People were making out like he was a genie or a genius though, so I just thought I'd point out that like most rumour-mill types, he is primarily the receiver of good intel. He knows a lot of the key players personally.
I would say that Joshua Topolsky from Engadget seems to have surpassed him in terms of inside info lately. Without Joshua, Engadget would just be a cesspool of MS fanboys and forum posters like "DaHarder."
It's true that existing Verizon customers would not feel the pain of losing access to data during calls (or vice versa), but the potential throngs of unhappy AT&T customers holding their breath for the opportunity to jump ship would.
This seems to be a much bigger problem to me than squeezing a CDMA chip into the slim 4 handset shape, etc.
I've had my doubts about a switch from the beginning, but signs do seem to be strengthening. I'm all for it personally. The fewer bandwidth hogs on AT&T, the better. I hope for the sake of customers on Verizon, iPhone or not, that the looming deluge of new data heavy users won't send them to the same slow networked place we AT&T customers endure today thanks to inadequate network hardware infrastructure upgrades as promised in '07.
It's true that existing Verizon customers would not feel the pain of losing access to data during calls (or vice versa), but the potential throngs of unhappy AT&T customers holding their breath for the opportunity to jump ship would.
This seems to be a much bigger problem to me than squeezing a CDMA chip into the slim 4 handset shape, etc.
I've had my doubts about a switch from the beginning, but signs do seem to be strengthening. I'm all for it personally. The fewer bandwidth hogs on AT&T, the better. I hope for the sake of customers on Verizon, iPhone or not, that the looming deluge of new data heavy users won't send them to the same slow networked place we AT&T customers endure today thanks to inadequate network hardware infrastructure upgrades as promised in '07.
The bandwidth hogs won't be going anywhere, they'll be keeping their grandfathered plans. WHEN will ATT undo that? What a screwup.
Same rumor with new life to it. My question is ..........If APPLE truly is in the process of testing a new CDMA phone for release in January 2011 will it be Verizon as the carrier??
this is off topic, but i'll give the iPhone as a scenario.
I have a hard time believing that apple would put in production a CDMA only phone, when a year later, LTE will be mainstream... i could've sworn there was a mandate to make verizon smart phones LTE ready by a certain year (thinking Q1 2011)...
The real question tho is is LTE related. how would an LTE phone work in an area that's non LTE? would it somehow have a secondary CDMA radio? example: at&t didn't have 3g coverage yet in my area, then finally they did.. my iPhone (at the time) would toggle 3G and then EDGE depending on the area... i'm not sure how verizon would do the same with LTE vs. CDMA (evdo)
this is off topic, but i'll give the iPhone as a scenario.
I have a hard time believing that apple would put in production a CDMA only phone, when a year later, LTE will be mainstream... i could've sworn there was a mandate to make verizon smart phones LTE ready by a certain year (thinking Q1 2011)...
I don't see how LTE will be anywhere close to "mainstream" in 2011. The networks with some active l LTE support can be counted on one hand and there aren't even any chips for phones for LTE that I'm aware of. I'm sure that will change in 2011, maybe by the end of 2010, but that doesn't mean the chips will be any good for the smartphone, and almost certainly not snubbing for small smartphones like the iPhone out of the gate. Just look at how large the '4G' chips are and how poorly they manage power on the EVO 4G.
Quote:
The real question tho is is LTE related. how would an LTE phone work in an area that's non LTE? would it somehow have a secondary CDMA radio? example: at&t didn't have 3g coverage yet in my area, then finally they did.. my iPhone (at the time) would toggle 3G and then EDGE depending on the area... i'm not sure how verizon would do the same with LTE vs. CDMA (evdo)
That's the rub. They don't just flip a switch to start tech and deactivate the older tech. Any LTE phone on Verizon will have CDMA and CDMA2000 chips.
On top of that, consider that on AT&T's '2G' and '3G'. If you are using '3G' for data you are using '3G' for voice and vice versa. On Verizon, if you are using '3G' for data you still use '2G' for voice, but this is optimal because CDMA kicks GSM's voice algorithm's but and if you are a heavy voice user you will get more talk time compared to a GSM-based phone if both have '3G' enabled. Also, LTE currently has no provisions for voice data; it's all IP, bit that's fine because CDMA, GSM and 3GSM will be primary way for voice for carriers for many years to come and they could just route voice through their LTE network over IP if they wanted to.
I don't see how LTE will be anywhere close to "mainstream" in 2011.
i meant to say 2012... what i was trying to get to is that if u manufacture a phone in 2011, and it's jumping to LTE by 2012 on a 'mainstream' level...
Same rumor with new life to it. My question is ..........If APPLE truly is in the process of testing a new CDMA phone for release in January 2011 will it be Verizon as the carrier??
It's for VZ. It is LTE with CDMA fallback. I'm willing to bet it 's the MDM 9600 below. Gruber is not aware of it or it would have been in his article.
November 12, 2009
The MDM9200 and the MDM9600 chipsets are the industry's first multi-mode 3G/LTE solutions that allow UMTS and CDMA2000® operators to upgrade seamlessly to future LTE services while preserving backward compatibility to their existing 3G networks. MDM9200 supports UMTS, HSPA+ and LTE, while the MDM9600 supports CDMA2000® 1X, EV-DO Rev. B, SV-DO, SV-LTE, UMTS, HSPA+ and LTE. All of the new chipsets support FDD LTE and TDD LTE modes and different carrier bandwidths, and are capable of using orthogonal frequency division multiple access (OFDMA) and multiple-input and multiple-output (MIMO) antenna technology to support peak data rates of up to 100 Mbps on the downlink and 50 Mbps on the uplink.
Comments
Gruber is good, but he's not perfect.
thing is, he's not afraid to say when he's called something incorrectly. and for an apple proponent he also points out where they've gone wrong or could be doing better, as well as pointing out strengths of other platforms.
South Korea, which recently approved the iPhone for its cellular networks, has CDMA only. Apple needs to produce a unique variant of the iPhone for that market. The iPhone continues to have higher penetration overseas than in the US.
How does this BS get pushed around. Yeah, they only have CDMA for their '2G' network but two of the three MNOs have UMTS/HSPA for their '3G' network. Only LG, the smallest of the three MNOs with something like 11M subs, uses CDMA2000/EV-DO for '3G'.
On top of that, THE iPHONE HAS BEEN SELLING IN SOUTH KOREA SINCE 2009. It's one of the top five fastest growing iPhone countries with 200k unit sales in 5 months. All using the standard 3GS and all working fine.
PS: China's entire CDMA subscriber base is only 65M.
Let me check. Yep AAPL just hit 375! Hellooooo.... Are you still there? I guess Verizon has dropped calls after all. Oh... did I do that?
There is no VZW stock, its lumped in with VZs landline side which isn't doing great even with the FIOS. The numbers would be better if it was a standalone stock and I'm sure ATTs stock suffers from the same thing.
How does this BS get pushed around. Yeah, they only have CDMA for their '2G' network but two of the three MNOs have UMTS/HSPA for their '3G' network. Only LG, the smallest of the three MNOs with something like 11M subs, uses CDMA2000/EV-DO for '3G'.
On top of that, THE iPHONE HAS BEEN SELLING IN SOUTH KOREA SINCE 2009. It's one of the top five fastest growing iPhone countries with 200k unit sales in 5 months. All using the standard 3GS and all working fine.
PS: China's entire CDMA subscriber base is only 65M.
Soli you're a saint. Don't you get tired of telling these guys the same thing over and over? I think you were being very kind when you said we might be intelligent bots.
I enjoy Gruber's work and, from what I hear, isn't exactly the nicest guy in the world to put it nicely. But I do give credit where it's due.
Maybe "prediction" is the wrong word. It's clear he has people on the inside who have a lot wide-ranging knowledge of Apple product development since his rumors are on both the Mac and iOS. As does AI.
Oh yeah. Totally agree. I read his site most days (although I almost quit when he made the ads un-blockable). He's a smart guy who knows what he's talking about.
People were making out like he was a genie or a genius though, so I just thought I'd point out that like most rumour-mill types, he is primarily the receiver of good intel. He knows a lot of the key players personally.
I would say that Joshua Topolsky from Engadget seems to have surpassed him in terms of inside info lately. Without Joshua, Engadget would just be a cesspool of MS fanboys and forum posters like "DaHarder."
HEAD EXPLODES!
(he predicted the 940x640 iPhone 4 display months ahead of time)
960*640 actually. Exactly double the old resolution
Oh yeah. Totally agree. I read his site most days (although I almost quit when he made the ads un-blockable).
There are ads on Daring Fireball?
This seems to be a much bigger problem to me than squeezing a CDMA chip into the slim 4 handset shape, etc.
I've had my doubts about a switch from the beginning, but signs do seem to be strengthening. I'm all for it personally. The fewer bandwidth hogs on AT&T, the better. I hope for the sake of customers on Verizon, iPhone or not, that the looming deluge of new data heavy users won't send them to the same slow networked place we AT&T customers endure today thanks to inadequate network hardware infrastructure upgrades as promised in '07.
It's true that existing Verizon customers would not feel the pain of losing access to data during calls (or vice versa), but the potential throngs of unhappy AT&T customers holding their breath for the opportunity to jump ship would.
This seems to be a much bigger problem to me than squeezing a CDMA chip into the slim 4 handset shape, etc.
I've had my doubts about a switch from the beginning, but signs do seem to be strengthening. I'm all for it personally. The fewer bandwidth hogs on AT&T, the better. I hope for the sake of customers on Verizon, iPhone or not, that the looming deluge of new data heavy users won't send them to the same slow networked place we AT&T customers endure today thanks to inadequate network hardware infrastructure upgrades as promised in '07.
The bandwidth hogs won't be going anywhere, they'll be keeping their grandfathered plans. WHEN will ATT undo that? What a screwup.
960*640 actually. Exactly double the old resolution
Exactly quadruple the old resolution, actually.
Exactly quadruple the old resolution, actually.
I just meant that each number was doubled. I realize that means a four-fold total number of pixels
There are ads on Daring Fireball?
yes there is
I have a hard time believing that apple would put in production a CDMA only phone, when a year later, LTE will be mainstream... i could've sworn there was a mandate to make verizon smart phones LTE ready by a certain year (thinking Q1 2011)...
The real question tho is is LTE related. how would an LTE phone work in an area that's non LTE? would it somehow have a secondary CDMA radio? example: at&t didn't have 3g coverage yet in my area, then finally they did.. my iPhone (at the time) would toggle 3G and then EDGE depending on the area... i'm not sure how verizon would do the same with LTE vs. CDMA (evdo)
this is off topic, but i'll give the iPhone as a scenario.
I have a hard time believing that apple would put in production a CDMA only phone, when a year later, LTE will be mainstream... i could've sworn there was a mandate to make verizon smart phones LTE ready by a certain year (thinking Q1 2011)...
I don't see how LTE will be anywhere close to "mainstream" in 2011. The networks with some active l LTE support can be counted on one hand and there aren't even any chips for phones for LTE that I'm aware of. I'm sure that will change in 2011, maybe by the end of 2010, but that doesn't mean the chips will be any good for the smartphone, and almost certainly not snubbing for small smartphones like the iPhone out of the gate. Just look at how large the '4G' chips are and how poorly they manage power on the EVO 4G.
The real question tho is is LTE related. how would an LTE phone work in an area that's non LTE? would it somehow have a secondary CDMA radio? example: at&t didn't have 3g coverage yet in my area, then finally they did.. my iPhone (at the time) would toggle 3G and then EDGE depending on the area... i'm not sure how verizon would do the same with LTE vs. CDMA (evdo)
That's the rub. They don't just flip a switch to start tech and deactivate the older tech. Any LTE phone on Verizon will have CDMA and CDMA2000 chips.
On top of that, consider that on AT&T's '2G' and '3G'. If you are using '3G' for data you are using '3G' for voice and vice versa. On Verizon, if you are using '3G' for data you still use '2G' for voice, but this is optimal because CDMA kicks GSM's voice algorithm's but and if you are a heavy voice user you will get more talk time compared to a GSM-based phone if both have '3G' enabled. Also, LTE currently has no provisions for voice data; it's all IP, bit that's fine because CDMA, GSM and 3GSM will be primary way for voice for carriers for many years to come and they could just route voice through their LTE network over IP if they wanted to.
I don't see how LTE will be anywhere close to "mainstream" in 2011.
i meant to say 2012... what i was trying to get to is that if u manufacture a phone in 2011, and it's jumping to LTE by 2012 on a 'mainstream' level...
Thank you for your reply.
Same rumor with new life to it. My question is ..........If APPLE truly is in the process of testing a new CDMA phone for release in January 2011 will it be Verizon as the carrier??
It's for VZ. It is LTE with CDMA fallback. I'm willing to bet it 's the MDM 9600 below. Gruber is not aware of it or it would have been in his article.
November 12, 2009
The MDM9200 and the MDM9600 chipsets are the industry's first multi-mode 3G/LTE solutions that allow UMTS and CDMA2000® operators to upgrade seamlessly to future LTE services while preserving backward compatibility to their existing 3G networks. MDM9200 supports UMTS, HSPA+ and LTE, while the MDM9600 supports CDMA2000® 1X, EV-DO Rev. B, SV-DO, SV-LTE, UMTS, HSPA+ and LTE. All of the new chipsets support FDD LTE and TDD LTE modes and different carrier bandwidths, and are capable of using orthogonal frequency division multiple access (OFDMA) and multiple-input and multiple-output (MIMO) antenna technology to support peak data rates of up to 100 Mbps on the downlink and 50 Mbps on the uplink.
http://www.qualcomm.com/news/release...multi-mode-3gl