Possible, but I don't think it is a direct challenge to google. More like taking a smallish portion of google's search business on iOS. I don't think Apple has any interest in getting into the general search engine business. A single data centre, no matter how large, is not going to threaten google's search business.
Google's business isn't search. Google's business is ads. Search is just another mechanism (the most successful) to sell ads by gathering eyeballs through a free service. Like gtalk, gmail, android, etc.
iAd is a direct threat to Google's growth potential on the mobile market. One that may never appear on Android but who knows...maybe by allowing Bing Apple has arranged a quid pro quo with MS for iAd on WinPhone7.
Depends on how pissed Jobs really is with Google. iAds appear to be a competitive advantage for iOS app developers...one Apple isn't likely to give up to MS except for other strategic reasons. Like taking Google down a peg or two. Something Ballmer would get on board with I'm sure.
For $275M that's kinda chump change to annoy Google with. Given that Apple is selling every iOS product it can make, Android hasn't had much impact to Apple's bottom line.
The REAL metric is whether Android can beat iOS on the tablet side. That's a whole new market that Apple wants to dominate. Apple could never make/sell enough smartphones to dominate that market...but tablets are a good possibility.
One MS is worried about but probably not nearly as worried as the possibility that Android will do well on tablets. No iPad sale really takes away from a windows sale. Every Android tablet sale probably means one less Win7 tablet sale.
Faulty logic. While there maybe 60 or even a thousand Android models*, you cannot make the leap to say it takes all of these models to equal or surpass the iPhone sales. It could be that only 3 of the top selling Android are enough. Or 10 or 20. Unfortunately, the numbers do not break down between Android models.
*Are there even 60 models currently for sale? Or is that number all of the Android models ever released? There seems to be models introduced and retired every couple weeks.
As we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Could there be three Android devices together beating the iPhone numbers? I doubt it, but the world may never know. The fact is the sales numbers were very close when all sixty Android phones were put together. In other words, it took sixty of them to get just a little ahead. Draw your own conclusions.
A ton of models sold on a ton of carriers... to compete with Apple's ONE phone.
That's not winning, it's called churning out as much crap as possible because you can't produce any one killer device that can cut the mustard.
Wondroid Mobile by Googlesoft. Same old strategy the also-rans employ. Google has already conceded the Platinum end of the market to Apple, and then some.
Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.
A rather twisted way of thinking. Samsung sold 65.3 m devices vs Apples 8.7 m in the same period.
Then ask yourself, where does a large proportion of the components that make up those 8.7 m come from?
This is only the first time this has happened? Damn, I can't believe how well the iPhone sells. I never imagined, even in my worst fanboy moments 4 years ago, that it would sell this well.
I didn't read the whole article, (since reading about how an entire mobile OS is outselling 1 product is nauseatingly stupid) but could we compare all iOS devices to all Android devices? I'd be far more interested in those numbers.
Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.
Ok. Didn't know you wanted to be that specific about the "50" number. I thought you meant that no grouping of Android phones in general would ever outsell the iPhone.
But this always goes back to my question earlier of why this really matters. Sure it's impressive that the iPhone (3G, 3GS, 4) sold so well. But I don't believe it was ever Google's plan to have any single OEM partner outsell the iPhone one-on-one. Would they like to? Sure. But in the long term, I don't think anyone truly cares. Each OEM has a very successful line of Android phones that nets them plenty of money to develop the next line of devices.
Er, Micron (not longer sells PC), Gateway (now part of Acer), Packard Bell (now part of Acer), eMachines (now part of Acer), Compaq (now part of HP), IBM (sold to Lenovo) There are probably a couple other name brands I don't recall that are now gone.
As we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Could there be three Android devices together beating the iPhone numbers? I doubt it, but the world may never know. The fact is the sales numbers were very close when all sixty Android phones were put together. In other words, it took sixty of them to get just a little ahead. Draw your own conclusions.
A rather twisted way of thinking. Samsung sold 65.3 m devices vs Apples 8.7 m in the same period.
Then ask yourself, where does a large proportion of the components that make up those 8.7 m come from?
Vertical integration - win, win.
Devices, not smartphones and not small limites product lineup all using the same components. How many of those 65.3M Samsung phones have 802.11n or Categpry 5 HSUPA or even the same high-end display panel type?
It's a very different world when you wait to see what aging components have been stockpiled before you design you phone than one where are designing and telling your manufacturing partner what to make.
I didn't read the whole article, (since reading about how an entire mobile OS is outselling 1 product is nauseatingly stupid)...
Ditto! Cut to the end and saw what needed to be said had already been said. At best, you can maybe say Apple is selling 2 devices, but even then, they are virtually the same thing.
A ton of models sold on a ton of carriers... to compete with Apple's ONE phone.
That's not winning, it's called churning out as much crap as possible because you can't produce any one killer device that can cut the mustard.
Wondroid Mobile by Googlesoft. Same old strategy the also-rans employ. Google has already conceded the Platinum end of the market to Apple, and then some.
Its not winning, but it's not losing either. The software is made by Google. Its mostly buggy, sloppy, with a typical unreliable google beta feel to it. The hardware is made by the lowest bidders, each model more of a piece of junk than the next.
None of that even has a prayer of adding up to what Apple does with the iPhone, but no one expects it to. Google knows there is a bigger market of people who buy something other than an iPhone, than there ever will be for the second place spot.
Just like it has always been for pcs. Apple will make the best, and someone else will make something for everyone else, who don't care or know better.
A ton of models sold on a ton of carriers... to compete with Apple's ONE phone.
That's not winning, it's called churning out as much crap as possible because you can't produce any one killer device that can cut the mustard.
Wondroid Mobile by Googlesoft. Same old strategy the also-rans employ. Google has already conceded the Platinum end of the market to Apple, and then some.
Apple has always been associated with premium products. It's a given and it's not going away. I'm sure that if 2 or 3 years down the line, iOS is relegated to the top 10% and Android running on the majority of the rest of the market, Google would have no qualms about conceding the "platinum end" to Apple.
Remember, Google wants Android on as many devices as possible out there to drive search and ads. Google's overall strategy is better suited for taking up the market just below the "platinum" level.
Sure it's impressive that the iPhone (3G, 3GS, 4) sold so well. But I don't believe it was ever Google's plan to have any single OEM partner outsell the iPhone one-on-one. Would they like to? Sure. But in the long term, I don't think anyone truly cares. Each OEM has a very successful line of Android phones that nets them plenty of money to develop the next line of devices.
Now, you are getting closer to the truth. These comparisons are stupid and misleading. The only part I would challenge you on is the idea that Google does not care is any one device competes with the iPhone. The Hero, and later, the Nexus One were direct competitors. They were the Google branded iPhone killers of their day. They are both dead. It is not that Google never cared; they just gave up after failing so badly. Otherwise, I agree.
Ok. Didn't know you wanted to be that specific about the "50" number. I thought you meant that no grouping of Android phones in general would ever outsell the iPhone.
But this always goes back to my question earlier of why this really matters. Sure it's impressive that the iPhone (3G, 3GS, 4) sold so well. But I don't believe it was ever Google's plan to have any single OEM partner outsell the iPhone one-on-one. Would they like to? Sure. But in the long term, I don't think anyone truly cares. Each OEM has a very successful line of Android phones that nets them plenty of money to develop the next line of devices.
It's certainly not Google's plan and they certainly don't care, except that it would be a milestone for Android.
I do think it's inevitable that many vendors will surpass Apple's iPhone in unit sales using the same OS. If they don’t it’s because they are incompetent. There are just too many longterm opportunities for cheap phones to ship with Android.
For example, I don't see anything keeping Android 2.1 off a cheap "feature phone" that is free with contract. A device that offers some of the integration and connectivity to the cloud for snycing contacts and calanders. Perhaps working as a simple USB thumb drive, too, but mostly still a basic phone without the huge touchscreen and complex feature set. I'm thinking of a couple years down the road when Android is shipping as version 4 or 5 on the latest devices.
As we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Could there be three Android devices together beating the iPhone numbers? I doubt it, but the world may never know. The fact is the sales numbers were very close when all sixty Android phones were put together. In other words, it took sixty of them to get just a little ahead. Draw your own conclusions.
There are more people in all countries in Asia combined than in the US. That doesn't mean it takes every country in Asia to exceed the population of the US. All Android units combined outsold the iPhone does not mean it took all sixty of them. It only means that is how many were included in the numbers.
This isn't hard. Very, very basic math. That article doesn't say much, other than all Androids together exceeded sales of the iPhone. We know that. That is accepted. Now, can you say with certainty that Android only beats the iPhone only if you include every Android model? No way you can say that reasonably. That is simply flawed and very poor logic. It is possible but you cannot make that claim honestly by citing only the overall numbers.
Now, you are getting closer to the truth. These comparisons are stupid and misleading. The only part I would challenge you on is the idea that Google does not care is any one device competes with the iPhone. The Hero, and later, the Nexus One were direct competitors. They were the Google branded iPhone killers of their day. They are both dead. It is not that Google never cared; they just gave up after failing so badly. Otherwise, I agree.
I would agree that Google did try with their Nexus One as a direct competitor. They made some major mistakes in their selling plan. The biggest one was that they didn't have any physical stores where they could put the device on display and let users play with it. Not many people I know of are willing to put down hundreds for a device they've never tried.
However, I think the silver lining in them creating the N1 was that it created a kind of baseline for all the OEMs to reference. All the high-end Android phones that came out after the N1 all revolved around similar specs. And the newer phones being released don't dip below the N1.
There are more people in all countries in Asia combined than in the US. That doesn't mean it takes every country in Asia to exceed the population of the US. All Android units combined outsold the iPhone does not mean it took all sixty of them. It only means that is how many were included in the numbers. ...
Well, if these stats include the Asian forks of Android, and it's not clear whether they do or not, then they can't be relied on to mean anything.
It's certainly not Google's plan and they certainly don't care except that it would be a milestone for Android.
I do think it's inevitable that many vendors will surpass Apple's iPhone in unit sales using the same OS. If they don't because they are incompetent. There are just too many longterm opportunities for cheap phones to ship with Android.
For example, I don't see anything keeping Android 2.1 off a cheap "feature phone" that is free with contract. A device that offers some of the integration and connectivity to cloud fr snycing contacts and calanders. Perhaps works as a simple USB thumb drive, too, but mostly still a basic phone without the huge touchscreen and complex feature set. I'm thinking of a couple years down the road when Android is shipping as version 4 or 5 on the latest devices.
I agree. I believe that this will always be how Android devices will be split. The latest version for the high-end phones, and the "just passed" version for feature phones. High-end would have 3.0 while feature phones will get 2.1.
I think this will be by design because if all phones had the latest version of Android, then what would separate the high-end from the feature phones as a selling point (as hardware becomes cheaper and cheaper to manufacture)? Apple must have all their iDevices on the latest version because they aren't marketing any of them as feature phones.
Well, if these stats include the Asian forks of Android, and it's not clear whether they do or not, then they can't be relied on to mean anything.
You mean the Chinese implementation of Android? Have they even released that to manufacturing yet? I'd read it the announced it was coming but didn't think they were ready to start shipping units.
You mean the Chinese implementation of Android? Have they even released that to manufacturing yet? I'd read it the announced it was coming but didn't think they were ready to start shipping units.
Comments
Possible, but I don't think it is a direct challenge to google. More like taking a smallish portion of google's search business on iOS. I don't think Apple has any interest in getting into the general search engine business. A single data centre, no matter how large, is not going to threaten google's search business.
Google's business isn't search. Google's business is ads. Search is just another mechanism (the most successful) to sell ads by gathering eyeballs through a free service. Like gtalk, gmail, android, etc.
iAd is a direct threat to Google's growth potential on the mobile market. One that may never appear on Android but who knows...maybe by allowing Bing Apple has arranged a quid pro quo with MS for iAd on WinPhone7.
Depends on how pissed Jobs really is with Google. iAds appear to be a competitive advantage for iOS app developers...one Apple isn't likely to give up to MS except for other strategic reasons. Like taking Google down a peg or two. Something Ballmer would get on board with I'm sure.
For $275M that's kinda chump change to annoy Google with. Given that Apple is selling every iOS product it can make, Android hasn't had much impact to Apple's bottom line.
The REAL metric is whether Android can beat iOS on the tablet side. That's a whole new market that Apple wants to dominate. Apple could never make/sell enough smartphones to dominate that market...but tablets are a good possibility.
One MS is worried about but probably not nearly as worried as the possibility that Android will do well on tablets. No iPad sale really takes away from a windows sale. Every Android tablet sale probably means one less Win7 tablet sale.
Faulty logic. While there maybe 60 or even a thousand Android models*, you cannot make the leap to say it takes all of these models to equal or surpass the iPhone sales. It could be that only 3 of the top selling Android are enough. Or 10 or 20. Unfortunately, the numbers do not break down between Android models.
*Are there even 60 models currently for sale? Or is that number all of the Android models ever released? There seems to be models introduced and retired every couple weeks.
As we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Could there be three Android devices together beating the iPhone numbers? I doubt it, but the world may never know. The fact is the sales numbers were very close when all sixty Android phones were put together. In other words, it took sixty of them to get just a little ahead. Draw your own conclusions.
And here is some bonus reading just for playing.
http://www.tipb.com/2010/08/13/andro...Pad%2C+iPod%29
That's not winning, it's called churning out as much crap as possible because you can't produce any one killer device that can cut the mustard.
Wondroid Mobile by Googlesoft. Same old strategy the also-rans employ. Google has already conceded the Platinum end of the market to Apple, and then some.
Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.
A rather twisted way of thinking. Samsung sold 65.3 m devices vs Apples 8.7 m in the same period.
Then ask yourself, where does a large proportion of the components that make up those 8.7 m come from?
Vertical integration - win, win.
I didn't read the whole article, (since reading about how an entire mobile OS is outselling 1 product is nauseatingly stupid) but could we compare all iOS devices to all Android devices? I'd be far more interested in those numbers.
Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.
Ok. Didn't know you wanted to be that specific about the "50" number. I thought you meant that no grouping of Android phones in general would ever outsell the iPhone.
But this always goes back to my question earlier of why this really matters. Sure it's impressive that the iPhone (3G, 3GS, 4) sold so well. But I don't believe it was ever Google's plan to have any single OEM partner outsell the iPhone one-on-one. Would they like to? Sure. But in the long term, I don't think anyone truly cares. Each OEM has a very successful line of Android phones that nets them plenty of money to develop the next line of devices.
Er, Micron (not longer sells PC), Gateway (now part of Acer), Packard Bell (now part of Acer), eMachines (now part of Acer), Compaq (now part of HP), IBM (sold to Lenovo) There are probably a couple other name brands I don't recall that are now gone.
Yes, I was agreeing with the poster I replied to.
As we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Could there be three Android devices together beating the iPhone numbers? I doubt it, but the world may never know. The fact is the sales numbers were very close when all sixty Android phones were put together. In other words, it took sixty of them to get just a little ahead. Draw your own conclusions.
And here is some bonus reading just for playing.
http://www.tipb.com/2010/08/13/andro...Pad%2C+iPod%29
Here's a bonus to your bonus article:
http://www.androidcentral.com/gartne...-androids-huge
A rather twisted way of thinking. Samsung sold 65.3 m devices vs Apples 8.7 m in the same period.
Then ask yourself, where does a large proportion of the components that make up those 8.7 m come from?
Vertical integration - win, win.
Devices, not smartphones and not small limites product lineup all using the same components. How many of those 65.3M Samsung phones have 802.11n or Categpry 5 HSUPA or even the same high-end display panel type?
It's a very different world when you wait to see what aging components have been stockpiled before you design you phone than one where are designing and telling your manufacturing partner what to make.
I didn't read the whole article, (since reading about how an entire mobile OS is outselling 1 product is nauseatingly stupid)...
Ditto! Cut to the end and saw what needed to be said had already been said. At best, you can maybe say Apple is selling 2 devices, but even then, they are virtually the same thing.
A ton of models sold on a ton of carriers... to compete with Apple's ONE phone.
That's not winning, it's called churning out as much crap as possible because you can't produce any one killer device that can cut the mustard.
Wondroid Mobile by Googlesoft. Same old strategy the also-rans employ. Google has already conceded the Platinum end of the market to Apple, and then some.
Its not winning, but it's not losing either. The software is made by Google. Its mostly buggy, sloppy, with a typical unreliable google beta feel to it. The hardware is made by the lowest bidders, each model more of a piece of junk than the next.
None of that even has a prayer of adding up to what Apple does with the iPhone, but no one expects it to. Google knows there is a bigger market of people who buy something other than an iPhone, than there ever will be for the second place spot.
Just like it has always been for pcs. Apple will make the best, and someone else will make something for everyone else, who don't care or know better.
A ton of models sold on a ton of carriers... to compete with Apple's ONE phone.
That's not winning, it's called churning out as much crap as possible because you can't produce any one killer device that can cut the mustard.
Wondroid Mobile by Googlesoft. Same old strategy the also-rans employ. Google has already conceded the Platinum end of the market to Apple, and then some.
Apple has always been associated with premium products. It's a given and it's not going away. I'm sure that if 2 or 3 years down the line, iOS is relegated to the top 10% and Android running on the majority of the rest of the market, Google would have no qualms about conceding the "platinum end" to Apple.
Remember, Google wants Android on as many devices as possible out there to drive search and ads. Google's overall strategy is better suited for taking up the market just below the "platinum" level.
Sure it's impressive that the iPhone (3G, 3GS, 4) sold so well. But I don't believe it was ever Google's plan to have any single OEM partner outsell the iPhone one-on-one. Would they like to? Sure. But in the long term, I don't think anyone truly cares. Each OEM has a very successful line of Android phones that nets them plenty of money to develop the next line of devices.
Now, you are getting closer to the truth. These comparisons are stupid and misleading. The only part I would challenge you on is the idea that Google does not care is any one device competes with the iPhone. The Hero, and later, the Nexus One were direct competitors. They were the Google branded iPhone killers of their day. They are both dead. It is not that Google never cared; they just gave up after failing so badly. Otherwise, I agree.
Ok. Didn't know you wanted to be that specific about the "50" number. I thought you meant that no grouping of Android phones in general would ever outsell the iPhone.
But this always goes back to my question earlier of why this really matters. Sure it's impressive that the iPhone (3G, 3GS, 4) sold so well. But I don't believe it was ever Google's plan to have any single OEM partner outsell the iPhone one-on-one. Would they like to? Sure. But in the long term, I don't think anyone truly cares. Each OEM has a very successful line of Android phones that nets them plenty of money to develop the next line of devices.
It's certainly not Google's plan and they certainly don't care, except that it would be a milestone for Android.
I do think it's inevitable that many vendors will surpass Apple's iPhone in unit sales using the same OS. If they don’t it’s because they are incompetent. There are just too many longterm opportunities for cheap phones to ship with Android.
For example, I don't see anything keeping Android 2.1 off a cheap "feature phone" that is free with contract. A device that offers some of the integration and connectivity to the cloud for snycing contacts and calanders. Perhaps working as a simple USB thumb drive, too, but mostly still a basic phone without the huge touchscreen and complex feature set. I'm thinking of a couple years down the road when Android is shipping as version 4 or 5 on the latest devices.
As we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Could there be three Android devices together beating the iPhone numbers? I doubt it, but the world may never know. The fact is the sales numbers were very close when all sixty Android phones were put together. In other words, it took sixty of them to get just a little ahead. Draw your own conclusions.
And here is some bonus reading just for playing.
http://www.tipb.com/2010/08/13/andro...Pad%2C+iPod%29
There are more people in all countries in Asia combined than in the US. That doesn't mean it takes every country in Asia to exceed the population of the US. All Android units combined outsold the iPhone does not mean it took all sixty of them. It only means that is how many were included in the numbers.
This isn't hard. Very, very basic math. That article doesn't say much, other than all Androids together exceeded sales of the iPhone. We know that. That is accepted. Now, can you say with certainty that Android only beats the iPhone only if you include every Android model? No way you can say that reasonably. That is simply flawed and very poor logic. It is possible but you cannot make that claim honestly by citing only the overall numbers.
Stats might lie, but logic never will.
Now, you are getting closer to the truth. These comparisons are stupid and misleading. The only part I would challenge you on is the idea that Google does not care is any one device competes with the iPhone. The Hero, and later, the Nexus One were direct competitors. They were the Google branded iPhone killers of their day. They are both dead. It is not that Google never cared; they just gave up after failing so badly. Otherwise, I agree.
I would agree that Google did try with their Nexus One as a direct competitor. They made some major mistakes in their selling plan. The biggest one was that they didn't have any physical stores where they could put the device on display and let users play with it. Not many people I know of are willing to put down hundreds for a device they've never tried.
However, I think the silver lining in them creating the N1 was that it created a kind of baseline for all the OEMs to reference. All the high-end Android phones that came out after the N1 all revolved around similar specs. And the newer phones being released don't dip below the N1.
There are more people in all countries in Asia combined than in the US. That doesn't mean it takes every country in Asia to exceed the population of the US. All Android units combined outsold the iPhone does not mean it took all sixty of them. It only means that is how many were included in the numbers. ...
Well, if these stats include the Asian forks of Android, and it's not clear whether they do or not, then they can't be relied on to mean anything.
It's certainly not Google's plan and they certainly don't care except that it would be a milestone for Android.
I do think it's inevitable that many vendors will surpass Apple's iPhone in unit sales using the same OS. If they don't because they are incompetent. There are just too many longterm opportunities for cheap phones to ship with Android.
For example, I don't see anything keeping Android 2.1 off a cheap "feature phone" that is free with contract. A device that offers some of the integration and connectivity to cloud fr snycing contacts and calanders. Perhaps works as a simple USB thumb drive, too, but mostly still a basic phone without the huge touchscreen and complex feature set. I'm thinking of a couple years down the road when Android is shipping as version 4 or 5 on the latest devices.
I agree. I believe that this will always be how Android devices will be split. The latest version for the high-end phones, and the "just passed" version for feature phones. High-end would have 3.0 while feature phones will get 2.1.
I think this will be by design because if all phones had the latest version of Android, then what would separate the high-end from the feature phones as a selling point (as hardware becomes cheaper and cheaper to manufacture)? Apple must have all their iDevices on the latest version because they aren't marketing any of them as feature phones.
Well, if these stats include the Asian forks of Android, and it's not clear whether they do or not, then they can't be relied on to mean anything.
You mean the Chinese implementation of Android? Have they even released that to manufacturing yet? I'd read it the announced it was coming but didn't think they were ready to start shipping units.
You mean the Chinese implementation of Android? Have they even released that to manufacturing yet? I'd read it the announced it was coming but didn't think they were ready to start shipping units.
That's my question, whether it's included or not.