I don´t think you were thinking. You hardly ever do.
Hang on, make that almost never.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well what I was thinking was that Europe was responsible for the murder of 6 million people, many of which were Jews, a little over 50 years ago. Remember that?
Well what I was thinking was that Europe was responsible for the murder of 6 million people, many of which were Jews, a little over 50 years ago. Remember that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wrong ... more then 30 million died in Europe in WW2 .. and 6 mill out of these WERE Jews... some cool place that Europe place ..innit ?!?! we should all try and be like them ....
edit:
Just to make it clear I'm not arguing with scott_h_phd. I support what he is saying in response to the 'deep helpful and meaningful' comments by Macvasco....
Actually, Israel, or to be more precise Jews already occupied the United States, and also many parts of the world. Plus also had a lot of control in many organizations.
Why do you think that Saturday become a public Â?hollidayÂ?? And Sunday shouldn't really become a public Â?hollidayÂ? either, it's just the First day converted into the Seventh day (to fit in with the Romans).
Really... People should have worked everyday, there's really no such thing as a no working day (or two) for each week.
If you think that Jews are a bunch of opressed minority people, think again. There are reasons on why some people don't like Jews, and it's not because they are a Â?minorityÂ? or just because they're Â?JewsÂ?.
Note: It's not precise to equalize that Israel = Jews. Descendants of Israel consist of many people, not just Jews. The Palestines are also descendants of Israel. But even the Palestines also consist of Jews.
You can't possibly be as stupid as your rambling post seems, can you? Nah, its impossible..................................
<strong>This has gone to a shouting match for no good reason.
I think the original poster was facetious. No one would suggest that the JEws give up their homeland.
It's better to wage an actual war for your home than to be murdered in the streets of an alien nation. Of course, that happens anyway. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I suggest they give up their homeland. No country should be based around a religion. That includes all religions. There must be a distinct separation between church and state. So, when I say that I suggest they need to give up their homeland, I'm not telling them to move. I'm telling them to create a secular democratic state.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
I suggest they give up their homeland. No country should be based around a religion. That includes all religions. There must be a distinct separation between church and state. So, when I say that I suggest they need to give up their homeland, I'm not telling them to move. I'm telling them to create a secular democratic state.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Isn't it funny how the country that provided most of the hijackers and gives money to the families of "martyrs" isn't listed in the "axis of evil?" Oh wait, I know why they aren't included on the list. They are our oil dealers. Can't diss the dealer cuz' we need our fix yo.
<strong>Actually, Israel, or to be more precise Jews already occupied the United States, and also many parts of the world. Plus also had a lot of control in many organizations.
Why do you think that Saturday become a public ?holliday?? And Sunday shouldn't really become a public ?holliday? either, it's just the First day converted into the Seventh day (to fit in with the Romans).
Really... People should have worked everyday, there's really no such thing as a no working day (or two) for each week.
If you think that Jews are a bunch of opressed minority people, think again. There are reasons on why some people don't like Jews, and it's not because they are a ?minority? or just because they're ?Jews?.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh really .... tell us please about those other reason why people hate the Jews .. enlighten me... pretty please <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Oh and while you educate me about why I should be hated by reasonable people please add (if you can be so kind) your explanation to your claim that Jews 'occupy' the US !
You sound like a good old anti-semite peddling the chewed up recycled old lies <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
That also goes for every islamic country as well as israel. All of them need to be secular.
Edit: I'm sure you understand this already but I'm just reiterating my point to help out those who are less cognitively endowed.
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I understand perfectly.
Only I hope that YOU also understand that just because Israel provides automatic refuge to Jews*, i.e. inhabitants of the land of Judea, does not disqualify it as a secular democratic state, which it is.
* a term that describes nationality and ethnicity, as well as religion.
Only I hope that YOU also understand that just because Israel provides automatic refuge to Jews*, i.e. inhabitants of the land of Judea, does not disqualify it as a secular democratic state, which it is.
* a term that describes nationality and ethnicity, as well as religion.
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are kidding yourself if you think that Israel is a secular democratic state. They may be democratic, but they sure as hell are not secular. Many of the decisions they make about immigration and various other topics are all based around keeping a jewish majority.
Oh really .... tell us please about those other reason why people hate the Jews .. enlighten me... pretty please <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Oh and while you educate me about why I should be hated by reasonable people please add (if you can be so kind) your explanation to your claim that Jews 'occupy' the US !
You sound like a good old anti-semite peddling the chewed up recycled old lies <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Shhh, ? The guy can't even put a sentence together. Leave him alone.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
I suggest they give up their homeland. No country should be based around a religion. That includes all religions. There must be a distinct separation between church and state. So, when I say that I suggest they need to give up their homeland, I'm not telling them to move. I'm telling them to create a secular democratic state.</strong><hr></blockquote>
EIF, Israel is a secular democracy .. in many ways the Israeli political, Judicial system is more liberal than that of the US ... or at least as free ... Israel was not established by a religious people or movement .. the Zionist movement was a secular one, its a nationalistic idea .. just like the British are a nation or Americans are a nation. Israelis are a nation .. some of them aren't Jews there over a million (out of seven ) Christian, Muslim, Druz, Coptic, Armenian .etc... Israeli citizens with exactly the same rights as Jews. I am not even remotely religious but I am an israeli just like you are a citizen of your country. this has nothing to do with religion. its about the basic right of a people to live they way they want in the only country where they can be independent .
EIF, Israel is a secular democracy .. in many ways the Israeli political, Judicial system is more liberal than that of the US ... or at least as free ... Israel was not established by a religious people or movement .. the Zionist movement was a secular one, its a nationalistic idea .. just like the British are a nation or Americans are a nation. Israelis are a nation .. some of them aren't Jews there over a million (out of seven ) Christian, Muslim, Druz, Coptic, Armenian .etc... Israeli citizens with exactly the same rights as Jews. I am not even remotely religious but I am an israeli just like you are a citizen of your country. this has nothing to do with religion. its about the basic right of a people to live they way they want in the only country where they can be independent .</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of course they are tolerant. I never denied that. No one ever said that religious states had to be intolerant. Intolerance is simply a very common attitude in such countries.
Now, are you going to tell me with a straight face that Israel is not a Jewish State?
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
Many of the decisions they make about immigration and various other topics are all based around keeping a jewish majority.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jewish being a nation .. NOT necessarily a religion ! every country in the western world concerns itself with preserving its ethnic composition and maintaining its core values and limiting immigration into its borders.
every nation in the EU does it and so does the US .. they don't just take anyone who wants to become a citizen do they ... why is it wrong for Israel to apply the same considerations when they accept new people into their society ? why does that make it a religious state ?
Jewish being a nation .. NOT necessarily a religion ! every country in the western world concerns itself with preserving its ethnic composition and maintaining its core values and limiting immigration into its borders.
every nation in the EU does it and so does the US .. they don't just take anyone who wants to become a citizen do they ... why is it wrong for Israel to apply the same considerations when they accept new people into their society ? why does that make it a religious state ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Whether you like it or not, in addition to being a culture, Judaism is a religion. Frankly preserving ethnic composition as a motivation for immigration laws is not an acceptable reason. The reason why the US doesn't let just anyone in is for security and job availability. Anyone who is trying to "preserve ethnic composition" is just a bigot.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
You are kidding yourself if you think that Israel is a secular democratic state. They may be democratic, but they sure as hell are not secular. Many of the decisions they make about immigration and various other topics are all based around keeping a jewish majority.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think you do understand....
Again,
To be Jewish describes nationality and ethnicity, as well as religion.
Furthermore, I'd say 70-80% of Jews in Israel don't consider themselves religious. Nor were any of the founding fathers of Israel religious. In fact, Ben-Gurion, Israel's first prime minister, modeled his political party after Communist ideals. You know what Communism had to say about religion, right?
Now how does that compare with other states you consider secular democracies? Let?s take France for example and the story of Joan of Ark, or the British and their monarchs who where also heads of the Church.
Comments
<strong>
I don´t think you were thinking. You hardly ever do.
Hang on, make that almost never.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well what I was thinking was that Europe was responsible for the murder of 6 million people, many of which were Jews, a little over 50 years ago. Remember that?
<strong>
Well what I was thinking was that Europe was responsible for the murder of 6 million people, many of which were Jews, a little over 50 years ago. Remember that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wrong
edit:
Just to make it clear I'm not arguing with scott_h_phd. I support what he is saying in response to the 'deep helpful and meaningful' comments by Macvasco....
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: rashumon ]</p>
I think the original poster was facetious. No one would suggest that the JEws give up their homeland.
It's better to wage an actual war for your home than to be murdered in the streets of an alien nation. Of course, that happens anyway.
Joined: Apr 2002
\tposted 05-21-2002 02:46 AM Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* Â* Â*Â* Â* Â* Â*Â*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, Israel, or to be more precise Jews already occupied the United States, and also many parts of the world. Plus also had a lot of control in many organizations.
Why do you think that Saturday become a public Â?hollidayÂ?? And Sunday shouldn't really become a public Â?hollidayÂ? either, it's just the First day converted into the Seventh day (to fit in with the Romans).
Really... People should have worked everyday, there's really no such thing as a no working day (or two) for each week.
If you think that Jews are a bunch of opressed minority people, think again. There are reasons on why some people don't like Jews, and it's not because they are a Â?minorityÂ? or just because they're Â?JewsÂ?.
Note: It's not precise to equalize that Israel = Jews. Descendants of Israel consist of many people, not just Jews. The Palestines are also descendants of Israel. But even the Palestines also consist of Jews.
You can't possibly be as stupid as your rambling post seems, can you? Nah, its impossible..................................
<strong>This has gone to a shouting match for no good reason.
I think the original poster was facetious. No one would suggest that the JEws give up their homeland.
It's better to wage an actual war for your home than to be murdered in the streets of an alien nation. Of course, that happens anyway.
I suggest they give up their homeland. No country should be based around a religion. That includes all religions. There must be a distinct separation between church and state. So, when I say that I suggest they need to give up their homeland, I'm not telling them to move. I'm telling them to create a secular democratic state.
<strong>Well i have a much more clever idear : why dont we move the axis of evil in moon : Irack, north korea and Iran ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
heheh, ...
i'll second that motion.
mika.
<strong>
I suggest they give up their homeland. No country should be based around a religion. That includes all religions. There must be a distinct separation between church and state. So, when I say that I suggest they need to give up their homeland, I'm not telling them to move. I'm telling them to create a secular democratic state.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Amen.
<strong>
heheh, ...
i'll second that motion.
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Isn't it funny how the country that provided most of the hijackers and gives money to the families of "martyrs" isn't listed in the "axis of evil?" Oh wait, I know why they aren't included on the list. They are our oil dealers. Can't diss the dealer cuz' we need our fix yo.
<strong>
Amen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That also goes for every islamic country as well as israel. All of them need to be secular.
Edit: I'm sure you understand this already but I'm just reiterating my point to help out those who are less cognitively endowed.
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</p>
<strong>Actually, Israel, or to be more precise Jews already occupied the United States, and also many parts of the world. Plus also had a lot of control in many organizations.
Why do you think that Saturday become a public ?holliday?? And Sunday shouldn't really become a public ?holliday? either, it's just the First day converted into the Seventh day (to fit in with the Romans).
Really... People should have worked everyday, there's really no such thing as a no working day (or two) for each week.
If you think that Jews are a bunch of opressed minority people, think again. There are reasons on why some people don't like Jews, and it's not because they are a ?minority? or just because they're ?Jews?.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh really .... tell us please about those other reason why people hate the Jews .. enlighten me... pretty please <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Oh and while you educate me about why I should be hated by reasonable people please add (if you can be so kind) your explanation to your claim that Jews 'occupy' the US !
You sound like a good old anti-semite peddling the chewed up recycled old lies <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
<strong>
That also goes for every islamic country as well as israel. All of them need to be secular.
Edit: I'm sure you understand this already but I'm just reiterating my point to help out those who are less cognitively endowed.
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I understand perfectly.
Only I hope that YOU also understand that just because Israel provides automatic refuge to Jews*, i.e. inhabitants of the land of Judea, does not disqualify it as a secular democratic state, which it is.
* a term that describes nationality and ethnicity, as well as religion.
mika.
<strong>
I understand perfectly.
Only I hope that YOU also understand that just because Israel provides automatic refuge to Jews*, i.e. inhabitants of the land of Judea, does not disqualify it as a secular democratic state, which it is.
* a term that describes nationality and ethnicity, as well as religion.
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are kidding yourself if you think that Israel is a secular democratic state. They may be democratic, but they sure as hell are not secular. Many of the decisions they make about immigration and various other topics are all based around keeping a jewish majority.
<strong>
Oh really .... tell us please about those other reason why people hate the Jews .. enlighten me... pretty please <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Oh and while you educate me about why I should be hated by reasonable people please add (if you can be so kind) your explanation to your claim that Jews 'occupy' the US !
You sound like a good old anti-semite peddling the chewed up recycled old lies <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Shhh, ? The guy can't even put a sentence together. Leave him alone.
mika.
<strong>
I suggest they give up their homeland. No country should be based around a religion. That includes all religions. There must be a distinct separation between church and state. So, when I say that I suggest they need to give up their homeland, I'm not telling them to move. I'm telling them to create a secular democratic state.</strong><hr></blockquote>
EIF, Israel is a secular democracy .. in many ways the Israeli political, Judicial system is more liberal than that of the US ... or at least as free ... Israel was not established by a religious people or movement .. the Zionist movement was a secular one, its a nationalistic idea .. just like the British are a nation or Americans are a nation. Israelis are a nation .. some of them aren't Jews there over a million (out of seven ) Christian, Muslim, Druz, Coptic, Armenian .etc... Israeli citizens with exactly the same rights as Jews. I am not even remotely religious but I am an israeli just like you are a citizen of your country. this has nothing to do with religion. its about the basic right of a people to live they way they want in the only country where they can be independent .
Now that's moving them...!
<strong>
EIF, Israel is a secular democracy .. in many ways the Israeli political, Judicial system is more liberal than that of the US ... or at least as free ... Israel was not established by a religious people or movement .. the Zionist movement was a secular one, its a nationalistic idea .. just like the British are a nation or Americans are a nation. Israelis are a nation .. some of them aren't Jews there over a million (out of seven ) Christian, Muslim, Druz, Coptic, Armenian .etc... Israeli citizens with exactly the same rights as Jews. I am not even remotely religious but I am an israeli just like you are a citizen of your country. this has nothing to do with religion. its about the basic right of a people to live they way they want in the only country where they can be independent .</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of course they are tolerant. I never denied that. No one ever said that religious states had to be intolerant. Intolerance is simply a very common attitude in such countries.
Now, are you going to tell me with a straight face that Israel is not a Jewish State?
<strong>
Now that's moving them...!
Outward from the epicenter at around 20,000 mph...
<strong>
Many of the decisions they make about immigration and various other topics are all based around keeping a jewish majority.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jewish being a nation .. NOT necessarily a religion ! every country in the western world concerns itself with preserving its ethnic composition and maintaining its core values and limiting immigration into its borders.
every nation in the EU does it and so does the US .. they don't just take anyone who wants to become a citizen do they ... why is it wrong for Israel to apply the same considerations when they accept new people into their society ? why does that make it a religious state ?
<strong>
Jewish being a nation .. NOT necessarily a religion ! every country in the western world concerns itself with preserving its ethnic composition and maintaining its core values and limiting immigration into its borders.
every nation in the EU does it and so does the US .. they don't just take anyone who wants to become a citizen do they ... why is it wrong for Israel to apply the same considerations when they accept new people into their society ? why does that make it a religious state ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Whether you like it or not, in addition to being a culture, Judaism is a religion. Frankly preserving ethnic composition as a motivation for immigration laws is not an acceptable reason. The reason why the US doesn't let just anyone in is for security and job availability. Anyone who is trying to "preserve ethnic composition" is just a bigot.
<strong>
You are kidding yourself if you think that Israel is a secular democratic state. They may be democratic, but they sure as hell are not secular. Many of the decisions they make about immigration and various other topics are all based around keeping a jewish majority.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think you do understand....
Again,
To be Jewish describes nationality and ethnicity, as well as religion.
Furthermore, I'd say 70-80% of Jews in Israel don't consider themselves religious. Nor were any of the founding fathers of Israel religious. In fact, Ben-Gurion, Israel's first prime minister, modeled his political party after Communist ideals. You know what Communism had to say about religion, right?
Now how does that compare with other states you consider secular democracies? Let?s take France for example and the story of Joan of Ark, or the British and their monarchs who where also heads of the Church.
mika.