<<I'm opposed to christmas and easter being national holidays. Christian secular is a contradiction of terms by the way. Unlike most arrogant americans, I believe that we are far from perfect as well. Religion should not factor into any decision in any government. You cannot possibly say with a straight face that the jewish religion does not enter into the decision making process in Israel.>>
the reason that Christmas is a national holiday frankly, is because no one would show up for work that day anyway. what would they do... fire everyone? mass job loss? oh, that's great for America. and Easter doesn't matter 'cause it's on a sunday anyway. many people don't have friday or monday off, so that's moot.
and my take on the whole Israel as a Jewish state thing is, well, yes, it is a Jewish state. it claims to be, and it is. Marriages aren't officially recognized if they aren't performed by a rabbi, Jews get nearly automatic citizenship, and only Jews can hold an office of any consequence. they don't claim to be a secular state.
in 1948, the UN voted for the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Islamic states, but Jordan got mad and invaded the West Bank. the Mufti of Jerusalem started a jihad against all jews, because he swore if the palestinians couldn't have Jerusalem, no one could. so if the palestinians should be mad at anyone, they should be mad at the deranged leaders that they let stay in power, and Jordan, because they could have had their own state, but they had an all-or-nothing attitude.
[quote]Originally posted by Exercise in Frivolity:
<strong>
Did I ever say they should all move? NO FOR THE LAST TIME GOD DAMMIT YOU PEOPLE DON'T LISTEN! They can live wherever they want. However, NO ETHNIC GROUP SHOULD HAVE A STATE JUST FOR THEM.</strong><hr></blockquote>
why? what reason do you have? what logic is behind this? what business do you have legislating what a country does 10,000 miles away from you? for that matter, why not do this one world thing, abolish all cultural displays, and outlaw religion altogether?
and my take on the whole Israel as a Jewish state thing is, well, yes, it is a Jewish state. it claims to be, and it is. Marriages aren't officially recognized if they aren't performed by a rabbi, Jews get nearly automatic citizenship, and only Jews can hold an office of any consequence. they don't claim to be a secular state.
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Israel is a secular state. and non jews can hold offices of power .. some of the Army's top officers are Arab Bedouin and Arab Druz and there are 3 Arab parties holding quite a few seats in the Knesset (Israeli parliament). its true that some things like marriage for Jews are controlled by the rabbinical establishment, a fact which is strongly resented by Israel's overwhelming secular majority. but in law and by its constitutional declarations Israel is the land of all its citizens be they Jaws Christians or Muslims.
Well, here?s a little more brainwashing, this time from the Koran ?
"God chose as the best the children af Ishmael, the son of Abraham. From Ishmael's descendants, God chose the Quresh (the tribe of Muhammad) as the best of people; from the Quresh, God chose the Banu Hashim (Muhammad's clan) as the best of people, and from the Banu Hashim, God chose Muhammad as the best of all men.." (Jame Tirmze, Vol: 2 )
"This day have I (Allah) perfected your religion
for you and completed My favour unto you,
and have chosen for you as religion AL-ISLAM.
( The Table, V- 3 )
"Certainly, God is an enemy to unbelievers." ( The Cow 11: 90 )
?Oh believers! the non-Muslims are unclean." ( Repentance IX: 27 )
"Surely, the worst of beasts in God's sight are the unbelievers." (The Spoil VIII: 57)
"O believers, take not Jews and Christians
as friends; they are friends of each other.
Whoso of you makes them his friends
is one of them." (The Table V: 55)
"O believers, do not treat your fathers and mothers as your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief; whosoever of you takes them for friends, they are evil-doers." (Repentance IX: 20)
"... For their saying 'we slew the Messiah, Jesus son
of Mary, the Messenger of God.
Yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him
only a likeness of that was shown them .....
God raised him up to Him." (Women IV: 155)
"Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden - such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book - until they pay the tribute out of hand ani have been humbled." (Repentance IX: 28)
Marriages aren't officially recognized if they aren't performed by a rabbi, Jews get nearly automatic citizenship, and only Jews can hold an office of any consequence. they don't claim to be a secular state.
Hmm, ? I guess marriges of non-Jews don?t count. So the million or so non-Jews living in Israel don?t have their marriges recognized? Is that what you?re saying? This is such nonsense. Where do people get this crap?
Well, tell you what. You just keep em coming. I got plenty more to share. Any opportunity you give me to beat up on a skunk like you and your jackel friends, is an opportunity I will gladly take.
Wow ..that's deeeeeeep OK , i'm converted you are right ( tough i haven't a clue what you are trying to say) so so sorry to be a Jew .. and an Israeli... and lying all these years to the poor dumb yanks ..
I'll just wonder off now and behead myself if thats ok with ya ...
Well, here?s a little more brainwashing, this time from the Koran ?
"God chose as the best the children af Ishmael, the son of Abraham. From Ishmael's descendants, God chose the Quresh (the tribe of Muhammad) as the best of people; from the Quresh, God chose the Banu Hashim (Muhammad's clan) as the best of people, and from the Banu Hashim, God chose Muhammad as the best of all men.." (Jame Tirmze, Vol: 2 )
"This day have I (Allah) perfected your religion
for you and completed My favour unto you,
and have chosen for you as religion AL-ISLAM.
( The Table, V- 3 )
"Certainly, God is an enemy to unbelievers." ( The Cow 11: 90 )
?Oh believers! the non-Muslims are unclean." ( Repentance IX: 27 )
"Surely, the worst of beasts in God's sight are the unbelievers." (The Spoil VIII: 57)
"O believers, take not Jews and Christians
as friends; they are friends of each other.
Whoso of you makes them his friends
is one of them." (The Table V: 55)
"O believers, do not treat your fathers and mothers as your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief; whosoever of you takes them for friends, they are evil-doers." (Repentance IX: 20)
"... For their saying 'we slew the Messiah, Jesus son
of Mary, the Messenger of God.
Yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him
only a likeness of that was shown them .....
God raised him up to Him." (Women IV: 155)
"Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden - such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book - until they pay the tribute out of hand ani have been humbled." (Repentance IX: 28)
Out of context, place, event, and purpose of revelations. When you put the whole Quran on the table, then maybe you will have a valid argument.
Add to that, that the first quote is not from the Quran as you have claimed.
Add to that, devious miss-translation.
Now this is propaganda. You will grow to be a good Israeli politician one day. </strong><hr></blockquote>
hahahah, ... Jakko the smiling Jackal.
You forgot yourself smiley. And you forgot who you?re speaking with. I?m not some poor uneducated Afghan that you can sing this siren song to, take over his country, and then go out and destroy his cultural heritage, like the UNESCO protected Buddha statues you destroyed at Bamiyan.
The quotes are NOT ?out of context, place, event, and purpose of revelations?. At least your Mullahs don?t think so. You also forgot where I?m from. I live in a city where there's a significant Arab population. So I know you jackals quite well, and the acting plays you put on. You can drop the smiley routine with me Jakko. I know you better than that. I also know Arabic habibi. And those quotes are perfectly accurate.
Now go and read some of those essays by Anwar Shaikh on the link I provided. Maybe then we?ll have some useful conversations.
And yes I?d love the privilege to press the button, and bring all you jackals 6 feet closer to your Allah. That?s what you all wish for, right?
I'm a Jewish-American (not religious), who doesn't mind that Easter and Christmas are national holidays.Why? Well, a needed day off for one. Also, the holidays are so commercialized there is really no religious undertones to the holidays anymore. Also, this is a Christian country. We may be secular, but lets face it, the VAST majority of Americans are Christian-very cool Christians, but Christian nonetheless. Lastly, the kids like it................................................ .......
You forgot yourself smiley. And you forgot who you?re speaking with. I?m not some poor uneducated Afghan that you can sing this siren song to, take over his country, and then go out and destroy his cultural heritage, like the UNESCO protected Buddha statues you destroyed at Bamiyan.
The quotes are NOT ?out of context, place, event, and purpose of revelations?. At least your Mullahs don?t think so. You also forgot where I?m from. I live in a city where there's a significant Arab population. So I know you jackals quite well, and the acting plays you put on. You can drop the smiley routine with me Jakko. I know you better than that. I also know Arabic habibi. And those quotes are perfectly accurate.
Now go and read some of those essays by Anwar Shaikh on the link I provided. Maybe then we?ll have some useful conversations.
And yes I?d love the privilege to press the button, and bring all you jackals 6 feet closer to your Allah. That?s what you all wish for, right?
Well, if you know Arabic so well, which I personally do not. Then please pull out for me how do you say "friend" in classical Arabic language?
Also, on another count, you have been away for a while. Maybe you missed my last post asking about who did Joshua conquer in the lands east and west of the river? Could you provide and answer for this also?
Interesting that you admit your lack of knowledge of classical Arabic, yet still claim that the quotes provided are not accurate. How would you know? The Mullahs in Iran skipped that little detail about learning the Arabic language huh?
But again, you?re forgetting who you?re speaking to. My knowledge of classical Hebrew, a daughter language of the Aramaic language from which Arabic also evolved, facilitates easy learning of classic Arabic. Kind of like German and English sharing 25% percent of their language in common.
Now, as far as your questions go. I think you know the answers very well. But you?re trying to make a point, right Jakko?
Well, Joshua conquered the land that was already formerly occupied by his forefathers. Remember Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, their families, etc. They happen to seek shelter one year with the Egyptians during a famine, like most of the people of Canaan, and got enslaved by the Egyptians in the process. So what?s your point now?
A better question to ask is what the hell are Arabs doing on the lands of Judea and Samaria? What the hell are they doing in Afghanistan? What the hell are they doing in Egypt? Or for that matter, what the hell are they doing in North Africa, period? Can you answer that for me?
<strong>Interesting that you admit your lack of knowledge of classical Arabic, yet still claim that the quotes provided are not accurate. How would you know? The Mullahs in Iran skipped that little detail about learning the Arabic language huh?
But again, you?re forgetting who you?re speaking to. My knowledge of classical Hebrew, a daughter language of the Aramaic language from which Arabic also evolved, facilitates easy learning of classic Arabic. Kind of like German and English sharing 25% percent of their language in common.
Now, as far as your questions go. I think you know the answers very well. But you?re trying to make a point, right Jakko?
Well, Joshua conquered the land that was already formerly occupied by his forefathers. Remember Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, their families, etc. They happen to seek shelter one year with the Egyptians during a famine, like most of the people of Canaan, and got enslaved by the Egyptians in the process. So what?s your point now?
A better question to ask is what the hell are Arabs doing on the lands of Judea and Samaria? What the hell are they doing in Afghanistan? What the hell are they doing in Egypt? Or for that matter, what the hell are they doing in North Africa? Can you answer that for me?
You still did not answer the question of how do you say "friend" in classical arabic, which your native language is a sister of. I would appreciate it if you provide a clear answer.
Otherwise there is no use to carry on with this argument and I will just consider the subject closed for the lack of your knowledge to support what you claim to be the right translated word for the said verse.
Regarding what you claim about Samaria and Judea, Abraham have moved from the lands between the rivers, Tigris & Euphrates, to settle in a land which the Canaan's [I am not sure if the Philistines were at that time yet] were already occupying. Can you refute that?
Regarding your inquiry about what Arabs are doing all over the countries they are in now, well, it is simple. They conquered, settled, and immigrated to those lands, over time they have became the majority and ruled over up to this date. In the case of Afghan, I believe you are talking about Qaeda members here, well it is very clear that there are political interests to have the Afghan lands on the Arab sides of the equation rather than any other side. Qaeda members have found a good heaven for their terrorist training activities in Afghanistan due to the support they found from the extremist ruling government at the time. Not to mention American support for the so called mujahedin in their war against USSR.
Second, regarding my origins which distract you a lot from the subjects we discuss at the time, I noticed:
If you find my origins bothersome and distracting, please note that I was born from an american father and mother in kentucky, lived in the States for five years, then moved with family in diplomatic mission for about 13 years in the middle east and went back for my college degree to the University of Kentucky [go Wild Cats], at the moment I am living in Tokyo.
Long ago, due to the atmosphere in the middle east where I lived at the time, I have came across those quotes you have mentioned above [further worse ones also] and was so troubled to even think about making friends with the muslims and arabs of the region. I consider myself lucky to have met someone who was patient enough to show me how false some of those quotes are, and how misleading the rest will be if taken out of context, and how each verse must be related to the time at which it was revealed, the place, and the incident that caused it to be revealed in order for it to be interpreted in the right way.
I am not a muslim by the way.
I don't mind the truth being said, there are many things we can compile against muslims, christians, and those of Judiac faith.
Just leave "Islam", "Quran", "Christianity", "Bible", "Judaism", and "Torah" out of that attack.
I hope that your next line of attack, which you seem to consider very often and I can not blame you for it because you are living there in the middle of all that mess, will not be "oh they have brain washed you".
I don?t want to be accused of highjacking this thread (again). I?ll start a new thread where we can go at it. (I?m not sure what to call the thread yet. Ok. How about: Arab nationalism and the Middle East.) I?ll copy your msg to it, and give you replies to your questions. Hope to see there soon.
Comments
One nation under God!
I'll shut up now!
<strong>
My country needs to change. Your country needs to change. Israel needs to change.
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Exercise in Frivolity ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
hmmmm...
maybe you need to change
the reason that Christmas is a national holiday frankly, is because no one would show up for work that day anyway. what would they do... fire everyone? mass job loss? oh, that's great for America. and Easter doesn't matter 'cause it's on a sunday anyway. many people don't have friday or monday off, so that's moot.
and my take on the whole Israel as a Jewish state thing is, well, yes, it is a Jewish state. it claims to be, and it is. Marriages aren't officially recognized if they aren't performed by a rabbi, Jews get nearly automatic citizenship, and only Jews can hold an office of any consequence. they don't claim to be a secular state.
in 1948, the UN voted for the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Islamic states, but Jordan got mad and invaded the West Bank. the Mufti of Jerusalem started a jihad against all jews, because he swore if the palestinians couldn't have Jerusalem, no one could. so if the palestinians should be mad at anyone, they should be mad at the deranged leaders that they let stay in power, and Jordan, because they could have had their own state, but they had an all-or-nothing attitude.
<strong>
Did I ever say they should all move? NO FOR THE LAST TIME GOD DAMMIT YOU PEOPLE DON'T LISTEN! They can live wherever they want. However, NO ETHNIC GROUP SHOULD HAVE A STATE JUST FOR THEM.</strong><hr></blockquote>
why? what reason do you have? what logic is behind this? what business do you have legislating what a country does 10,000 miles away from you? for that matter, why not do this one world thing, abolish all cultural displays, and outlaw religion altogether?
<strong>
and my take on the whole Israel as a Jewish state thing is, well, yes, it is a Jewish state. it claims to be, and it is. Marriages aren't officially recognized if they aren't performed by a rabbi, Jews get nearly automatic citizenship, and only Jews can hold an office of any consequence. they don't claim to be a secular state.
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Israel is a secular state. and non jews can hold offices of power .. some of the Army's top officers are Arab Bedouin and Arab Druz and there are 3 Arab parties holding quite a few seats in the Knesset (Israeli parliament). its true that some things like marriage for Jews are controlled by the rabbinical establishment, a fact which is strongly resented by Israel's overwhelming secular majority. but in law and by its constitutional declarations Israel is the land of all its citizens be they Jaws Christians or Muslims.
suckers
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>you poor yanks have been brainwashed by the jews..
suckers
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Would you be so kind and help the poor ones unwash their brains then ? please ? show us the light !
Figures ?
Facts ?
Who the hell are you ?
Whats your point ?
Show us the truth behind the brainwash oh great enlightened one ... pretty pleaze....
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>you poor yanks have been brainwashed by the jews..
suckers
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
heheh, ... as opposed to ?
Well, here?s a little more brainwashing, this time from the Koran ?
"God chose as the best the children af Ishmael, the son of Abraham. From Ishmael's descendants, God chose the Quresh (the tribe of Muhammad) as the best of people; from the Quresh, God chose the Banu Hashim (Muhammad's clan) as the best of people, and from the Banu Hashim, God chose Muhammad as the best of all men.." (Jame Tirmze, Vol: 2 )
"This day have I (Allah) perfected your religion
for you and completed My favour unto you,
and have chosen for you as religion AL-ISLAM.
( The Table, V- 3 )
"Certainly, God is an enemy to unbelievers." ( The Cow 11: 90 )
?Oh believers! the non-Muslims are unclean." ( Repentance IX: 27 )
"Surely, the worst of beasts in God's sight are the unbelievers." (The Spoil VIII: 57)
"O believers, take not Jews and Christians
as friends; they are friends of each other.
Whoso of you makes them his friends
is one of them." (The Table V: 55)
"O believers, do not treat your fathers and mothers as your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief; whosoever of you takes them for friends, they are evil-doers." (Repentance IX: 20)
"... For their saying 'we slew the Messiah, Jesus son
of Mary, the Messenger of God.
Yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him
only a likeness of that was shown them .....
God raised him up to Him." (Women IV: 155)
"Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden - such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book - until they pay the tribute out of hand ani have been humbled." (Repentance IX: 28)
"The unbelievers of the People of the Book
and the idolaters shall be in the Fire; of Hell
therein dwelling for ever:
those are the worst of creatures,
But those who believe, and do righteous deeds,
those are the best of creatures."
( The Clear Sign XCVIII: 5 )
<a href="http://www.realislam.org"; target="_blank">http://www.realislam.org</a>;
[ 05-26-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
Marriages aren't officially recognized if they aren't performed by a rabbi, Jews get nearly automatic citizenship, and only Jews can hold an office of any consequence. they don't claim to be a secular state.
Hmm, ? I guess marriges of non-Jews don?t count. So the million or so non-Jews living in Israel don?t have their marriges recognized? Is that what you?re saying? This is such nonsense. Where do people get this crap?
mika.
dorks
<strong>ha ha ha , gotcha goin' then..!
dorks
Ahhh, ? the self professed troll.
Well, tell you what. You just keep em coming. I got plenty more to share. Any opportunity you give me to beat up on a skunk like you and your jackel friends, is an opportunity I will gladly take.
Best regads,
mika.
<strong>last 45 years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow ..that's deeeeeeep OK , i'm converted you are right ( tough i haven't a clue what you are trying to say) so so sorry to be a Jew .. and an Israeli... and lying all these years to the poor dumb yanks ..
I'll just wonder off now and behead myself if thats ok with ya ...
<strong>
heheh, ... as opposed to ?
Well, here?s a little more brainwashing, this time from the Koran ?
"God chose as the best the children af Ishmael, the son of Abraham. From Ishmael's descendants, God chose the Quresh (the tribe of Muhammad) as the best of people; from the Quresh, God chose the Banu Hashim (Muhammad's clan) as the best of people, and from the Banu Hashim, God chose Muhammad as the best of all men.." (Jame Tirmze, Vol: 2 )
"This day have I (Allah) perfected your religion
for you and completed My favour unto you,
and have chosen for you as religion AL-ISLAM.
( The Table, V- 3 )
"Certainly, God is an enemy to unbelievers." ( The Cow 11: 90 )
?Oh believers! the non-Muslims are unclean." ( Repentance IX: 27 )
"Surely, the worst of beasts in God's sight are the unbelievers." (The Spoil VIII: 57)
"O believers, take not Jews and Christians
as friends; they are friends of each other.
Whoso of you makes them his friends
is one of them." (The Table V: 55)
"O believers, do not treat your fathers and mothers as your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief; whosoever of you takes them for friends, they are evil-doers." (Repentance IX: 20)
"... For their saying 'we slew the Messiah, Jesus son
of Mary, the Messenger of God.
Yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him
only a likeness of that was shown them .....
God raised him up to Him." (Women IV: 155)
"Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden - such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book - until they pay the tribute out of hand ani have been humbled." (Repentance IX: 28)
"The unbelievers of the People of the Book
and the idolaters shall be in the Fire; of Hell
therein dwelling for ever:
those are the worst of creatures,
But those who believe, and do righteous deeds,
those are the best of creatures."
( The Clear Sign XCVIII: 5 )
<a href="http://www.realislam.org"; target="_blank">http://www.realislam.org</a>;
[ 05-26-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Out of context, place, event, and purpose of revelations. When you put the whole Quran on the table, then maybe you will have a valid argument.
Add to that, that the first quote is not from the Quran as you have claimed.
Add to that, devious miss-translation.
Now this is propaganda. You will grow to be a good Israeli politician one day.
<strong>
Out of context, place, event, and purpose of revelations. When you put the whole Quran on the table, then maybe you will have a valid argument.
Add to that, that the first quote is not from the Quran as you have claimed.
Add to that, devious miss-translation.
Now this is propaganda. You will grow to be a good Israeli politician one day.
hahahah, ... Jakko the smiling Jackal.
You forgot yourself smiley. And you forgot who you?re speaking with. I?m not some poor uneducated Afghan that you can sing this siren song to, take over his country, and then go out and destroy his cultural heritage, like the UNESCO protected Buddha statues you destroyed at Bamiyan.
The quotes are NOT ?out of context, place, event, and purpose of revelations?. At least your Mullahs don?t think so. You also forgot where I?m from. I live in a city where there's a significant Arab population. So I know you jackals quite well, and the acting plays you put on. You can drop the smiley routine with me Jakko. I know you better than that. I also know Arabic habibi. And those quotes are perfectly accurate.
Now go and read some of those essays by Anwar Shaikh on the link I provided. Maybe then we?ll have some useful conversations.
And yes I?d love the privilege to press the button, and bring all you jackals 6 feet closer to your Allah. That?s what you all wish for, right?
mika.
[ 05-27-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>
hahahah, ... Jakko the smiling Jackal.
You forgot yourself smiley. And you forgot who you?re speaking with. I?m not some poor uneducated Afghan that you can sing this siren song to, take over his country, and then go out and destroy his cultural heritage, like the UNESCO protected Buddha statues you destroyed at Bamiyan.
The quotes are NOT ?out of context, place, event, and purpose of revelations?. At least your Mullahs don?t think so. You also forgot where I?m from. I live in a city where there's a significant Arab population. So I know you jackals quite well, and the acting plays you put on. You can drop the smiley routine with me Jakko. I know you better than that. I also know Arabic habibi. And those quotes are perfectly accurate.
Now go and read some of those essays by Anwar Shaikh on the link I provided. Maybe then we?ll have some useful conversations.
And yes I?d love the privilege to press the button, and bring all you jackals 6 feet closer to your Allah. That?s what you all wish for, right?
mika.
[ 05-27-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Name calling.
Well, if you know Arabic so well, which I personally do not. Then please pull out for me how do you say "friend" in classical Arabic language?
Also, on another count, you have been away for a while. Maybe you missed my last post asking about who did Joshua conquer in the lands east and west of the river? Could you provide and answer for this also?
Thanks.
But again, you?re forgetting who you?re speaking to. My knowledge of classical Hebrew, a daughter language of the Aramaic language from which Arabic also evolved, facilitates easy learning of classic Arabic. Kind of like German and English sharing 25% percent of their language in common.
Now, as far as your questions go. I think you know the answers very well. But you?re trying to make a point, right Jakko?
Well, Joshua conquered the land that was already formerly occupied by his forefathers. Remember Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, their families, etc. They happen to seek shelter one year with the Egyptians during a famine, like most of the people of Canaan, and got enslaved by the Egyptians in the process. So what?s your point now?
A better question to ask is what the hell are Arabs doing on the lands of Judea and Samaria? What the hell are they doing in Afghanistan? What the hell are they doing in Egypt? Or for that matter, what the hell are they doing in North Africa, period? Can you answer that for me?
mika.
[ 05-28-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>Interesting that you admit your lack of knowledge of classical Arabic, yet still claim that the quotes provided are not accurate. How would you know? The Mullahs in Iran skipped that little detail about learning the Arabic language huh?
But again, you?re forgetting who you?re speaking to. My knowledge of classical Hebrew, a daughter language of the Aramaic language from which Arabic also evolved, facilitates easy learning of classic Arabic. Kind of like German and English sharing 25% percent of their language in common.
Now, as far as your questions go. I think you know the answers very well. But you?re trying to make a point, right Jakko?
Well, Joshua conquered the land that was already formerly occupied by his forefathers. Remember Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, their families, etc. They happen to seek shelter one year with the Egyptians during a famine, like most of the people of Canaan, and got enslaved by the Egyptians in the process. So what?s your point now?
A better question to ask is what the hell are Arabs doing on the lands of Judea and Samaria? What the hell are they doing in Afghanistan? What the hell are they doing in Egypt? Or for that matter, what the hell are they doing in North Africa? Can you answer that for me?
mika.
[ 05-28-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
First, regarding my questions and your answers:
You still did not answer the question of how do you say "friend" in classical arabic, which your native language is a sister of. I would appreciate it if you provide a clear answer.
Otherwise there is no use to carry on with this argument and I will just consider the subject closed for the lack of your knowledge to support what you claim to be the right translated word for the said verse.
Regarding what you claim about Samaria and Judea, Abraham have moved from the lands between the rivers, Tigris & Euphrates, to settle in a land which the Canaan's [I am not sure if the Philistines were at that time yet] were already occupying. Can you refute that?
Regarding your inquiry about what Arabs are doing all over the countries they are in now, well, it is simple. They conquered, settled, and immigrated to those lands, over time they have became the majority and ruled over up to this date. In the case of Afghan, I believe you are talking about Qaeda members here, well it is very clear that there are political interests to have the Afghan lands on the Arab sides of the equation rather than any other side. Qaeda members have found a good heaven for their terrorist training activities in Afghanistan due to the support they found from the extremist ruling government at the time. Not to mention American support for the so called mujahedin in their war against USSR.
Second, regarding my origins which distract you a lot from the subjects we discuss at the time, I noticed:
If you find my origins bothersome and distracting, please note that I was born from an american father and mother in kentucky, lived in the States for five years, then moved with family in diplomatic mission for about 13 years in the middle east and went back for my college degree to the University of Kentucky [go Wild Cats], at the moment I am living in Tokyo.
Long ago, due to the atmosphere in the middle east where I lived at the time, I have came across those quotes you have mentioned above [further worse ones also] and was so troubled to even think about making friends with the muslims and arabs of the region. I consider myself lucky to have met someone who was patient enough to show me how false some of those quotes are, and how misleading the rest will be if taken out of context, and how each verse must be related to the time at which it was revealed, the place, and the incident that caused it to be revealed in order for it to be interpreted in the right way.
I am not a muslim by the way.
I don't mind the truth being said, there are many things we can compile against muslims, christians, and those of Judiac faith.
Just leave "Islam", "Quran", "Christianity", "Bible", "Judaism", and "Torah" out of that attack.
I hope that your next line of attack, which you seem to consider very often and I can not blame you for it because you are living there in the middle of all that mess, will not be "oh they have brain washed you".
I don?t want to be accused of highjacking this thread (again). I?ll start a new thread where we can go at it. (I?m not sure what to call the thread yet. Ok. How about: Arab nationalism and the Middle East.) I?ll copy your msg to it, and give you replies to your questions. Hope to see there soon.
mika.