Adobe resumes development of Packager for iPhone tool

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 86
    herbapouherbapou Posts: 2,214member
    Good thing. Not allowing cross platform tools was retarded. You need to think of dev cost and most dev's now wants to make apps for both Android and iOS. In fact, Android is getting fast toward a point where dev are going to choose it instead of iOS so Apple better allow those tools.



    Apple is in the business of selling hardware, its not going after Os world domination and you cant win an OS war if your the only one making hardware for it. Android will beat iOs pretty quickly so they need to adjust and allow easy porting of apps between OS.



    In fact, Apple should start planning on releasing an Android based iphone. The goal of Apple is making usefull, simple and superior hardware, not software.
  • Reply 42 of 86
    You know until Jobs point out the fact that Flash is the number one reason Mac's have crashed. I could not figure out from time to time why Safari locked up and sum time getting the you must shut down now warning message or worse yet the kernel panics with black and white text all over the screen.



    After that comment was made I paid much more attention to what was going on at the time when these odd events happened and Jobs was right. I was on a website that had flash running on it for some stupid advertising and 9 out of 10 time Safari would lock up. I could reproduce it buy going to that sight again and is the same ad came up since the random place ads in front of you so some developers of flash ads are more hackers then others but it would cause the mac all sort of problems.



    Since I have figure this out, I use Saft to block these ad sites so not to ever load their content in Safari.



    Also, I do not think Apple specially did this for Adobe, in reality they probably change the language to allow other companies to do things they want done and there was no way of disallowing adobe and allow everyone else.



    I hope someone comes out with an app like Saft for the mac that allows you to block ads. I also hope the developers of little snitch make and app for iOS so i can block out going information.
  • Reply 43 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You should probably start looking for a good therapist because your hated for Flash is psychotic. Now that Flash ports are going to be allowed on iPhone, you might just go postal on us without professional help.



    You are deluding yourself if you think this is being allowed because Apple decided they were wrong, that Flash wasn't a piece of shit. This is corporate influence over government in action, pure and simple. Flash is still dead on the web in 2-5 years, and this won't save it.
  • Reply 44 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    You are deluding yourself if you think this is being allowed because Apple decided they were wrong, that Flash wasn't a piece of shit. This is corporate influence over government in action, pure and simple. Flash is still dead on the web in 2-5 years, and this won't save it.



    Flash stands no chance of dying because Windows users have zero problems with Flash. Also with the speed of the new Android phones Flash 10.1 runs just fine.



    There is nothing to backup the statement that Flash is going to be dead in 2-5 years.
  • Reply 45 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    Flash stands no chance of dying because Windows users have zero problems with Flash. Also with the speed of the new Android phones Flash 10.1 runs just fine.



    Do you realize that this is BS or do you actually believe the nonsense you continually post on this forum?
  • Reply 46 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ViktorCode View Post


    It means that no app can use plug-ins / scripts downloaded from any other place but AppStore. Say, you can make a photo editor application and can offer its users additional image filters and effects for a fee. Those are essentially pieces of code. But you can offer them only through IAP (in-App Store), not from some internet server or local computer.



    In other words, every piece of code - integrated or not - must pass AppStore approval.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    My guess would be that these cross-compiled solutions (Flash, C# "Mono", Java etc) are actually interpreter engines for applications that can run on them, in a similar way that your web browser is an interpreter for HTML pages.



    Just like you can load multiple pages into your web browser once it is on your computer, so you can load the code for multiple applications into your cross-compiled solution once it is installed.



    It looks like Apple are limiting cross-compiled solutions to the one application that Apple certifies and blocking them from downloading more applications. This is kind of like bundling up your web browser and a specific HTML page together, and blocking the browser from going to different pages.



    It makes sense. If Apple let Adobe load multiple applications into their Flash application on the iPhone then Adobe could essentially build their own competing application store.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


    Very simply that is has to use only the code that is part of the app submitted to the app store, it's not allowed to call/download extra code during runtime.



    I'm not a programmer, but I wonder if this is entirely correct. An app like Netflix seems like it's developed with HTML, which means it's probably using Java or Javascript. Any app that calls for data to be delivered from a server could execute something which is arguably "code" from that server. How can this be prevented entirely?
  • Reply 47 of 86
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Flash is still dead on the web in 2-5 years, and this won't save it.





    Flash will be dead when something can replace it.



    One reason Flash appears to overwork the CPU, the single biggest complaint I hear, is that it is doing something that HTML 5 cannot. It is preloading while streaming at the same time. Take for example a picture viewer application that has thumbnails and large images. With HTML you have basically two choices. Load all the images and thumbnails before displaying anything, or load images as needed. In both cases you experience undesirable delays, however with Flash it starts loading what it needs to get started and continues to load all the content so that it is immediately available when requested. This is what is heating up the CPU, the high speed background processing, but it is for a good reason. Better user experience. That is just one example. There are many others why Flash is still unmatched for what it does best - animation.



    By the way I'm looking for good HTML 5 programmers. Send me a PM.
  • Reply 48 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I'm not a programmer, but I wonder if this is entirely correct. An app like Netflix seems like it's developed with HTML, which means it's probably using Java or Javascript. Any app that calls for data to be delivered from a server could execute something which is arguably "code" from that server. How can this be prevented entirely?



    Because a) the code that runs on the server isn't downloaded to the iPhone, and b) any "code" downloaded from the server may only be run by WebKit, which doesn't support Flash. Any app that operates outside these restrictions will be rejected.
  • Reply 49 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    You are deluding yourself if you think this is being allowed because Apple decided they were wrong, that Flash wasn't a piece of shit. This is corporate influence over government in action, pure and simple. Flash is still dead on the web in 2-5 years, and this won't save it.



    hmm lets not mixed up interpreted flash code with converted flash apps. Converted flash apps will be pre-compile apps in iOS code. Flash on the net is code that is interpreted on the fly has its received.



    Flash reminds me of the Basic language we had on PC's long ago. You could have an app abend on a syntax error, something a compiler will pick up before the app is release. Not to mention compiled apps are much faster and a lot more secure.
  • Reply 50 of 86
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I'm not a programmer, but I wonder if this is entirely correct. An app like Netflix seems like it's developed with HTML, which means it's probably using Java or Javascript. Any app that calls for data to be delivered from a server could execute something which is arguably "code" from that server. How can this be prevented entirely?



    Not Java, but apps are allowed to use Webkit. The rules have been changed a few times but at one point if you used a web browser like interface in your app that downloaded HTML/JS then it was considered adult content. The difference with this new clause is probably in reference to compiled code. HTML/JS is not compiled and runs in a sandbox. Compiled code can potentially do a lot of damage if the programmer had some malicious intent.
  • Reply 51 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post


    Oh oh. Name calling. Gonna report you.



    But for the record, there is a word for someone who doesn't respond to what a person says and tries to dismiss the person with name calling and insults. You, sir, are a...



    Agh, I can't name call. I have too many points already.



    Stop whining, and grow up.
  • Reply 52 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by herbapou View Post


    hmm lets not mixed up interpreted flash code with converted flash apps. Converted flash apps will be pre-compile apps in iOS code. Flash on the net is code that is interpreted on the fly has its received.



    Flash reminds me of the Basic language we had on PC's long ago. You could have an app abend on a syntax error, something a compiler will pick up before the app is release. Not to mention compiled apps are much faster and a lot more secure.



    No, I'm not mixing up the two. That's why I don't believe this will save Flash on the web, because it will have no impact there.
  • Reply 53 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Stop whining, and grow up.





    Did you just call me a winer? I'm gonna report you!
  • Reply 54 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I'm not a programmer, but I wonder if this is entirely correct. An app like Netflix seems like it's developed with HTML, which means it's probably using Java or Javascript. Any app that calls for data to be delivered from a server could execute something which is arguably "code" from that server. How can this be prevented entirely?



    My instant reaction to that comment was "no, that's different"... but when you get down to it the example you gave (i.e. an application using HTML\\Javascript) is quite similar to other cross-compiled solutions. The main difference is that in the case of HTML\\Javascript Apple control the interpreter (e.g. Webkit\\Safari) so they are able to control what the interpreted application can and cannot access on the phone.



    If we assume "code" means "a set of instructions that tell an application how to behave" then basically any application that supports complex file formats with some level of scripting could potentially be blocked under this clause.



    I wouldn't be surprised if Apple left the definition intentionally ambiguous so the blocking of an application could be left up to their discretion.
  • Reply 55 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    Flash stands no chance of dying because Windows users have zero problems with Flash



    Seriously? Run that statement by anyone who manages an IT dept, and prepare to get an earful about continuous updates for bugs and security holes.
  • Reply 56 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maccherry View Post


    let me tell yall something! I'm on my 2ghz macbook original AL(13 inch) with 2 gigs of ram and 250 megs of Nvidia shared video. I tell you when I play quake live it looks like I'm in a pixar movie. The macbook can handle high-end graphics like a mothe*****.

    Anyway, I was on that Nike.com site tonight and I wanted to explode! That site with all its nasty freaking flash is hell to navigate through. Flash is a disease. Kill it.



    rofl! Quake live is high end graphics?
  • Reply 57 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ArchAngel21x View Post


    Seriously? Run that statement by anyone who manages an IT dept, and prepare to get an earful about continuous updates for bugs and security holes.



    I just did. He told me to tell you to shut up. Apparently it's better to patch security holes than not to or something?



    I'm not even kidding.
  • Reply 58 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    rofl! Quake live is high end graphics?



    For Apple's video card choices, seemingly.
  • Reply 59 of 86
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    There is nothing to backup the statement that Flash is going to be dead in 2-5 years.



    You don't understand. Apple users account for almost 5% of web page hits.



    If Apple devices won't work with Flash, every content provider will invest however many millions of dollars it takes to reach those users. Or so say some...
  • Reply 60 of 86
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,195moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


    Adobe already support HTML5. HTLM5 != a flash replacement.



    HTML5 is the successor to HTML4 - hyper text mark up language - its nothing new, and most professional developers already use it. It's the core language of web page development, nothing else. It's not some brand new black magic and seems to be very misunderstood on these posts.



    It's not misunderstood at all. Flash is made up of two main parts, the Actionscript API and the vector graphics component. Apple submitted the Canvas HTML element to take the role of the vector graphics component and Javascript is an Actionscript equivalent.



    The tools aren't as mature as Flash yet but without any shadow of doubt, the HTML 5 demoes that exist replace over 90% of the applications that Flash is used for:



    http://www.chromeexperiments.com/



    - web fonts

    - vector graphics animation and interactive control

    - embedded video and audio



    Not only this but HTML 5 + JS separates the loading out so it's not just one long wait for a 5MB SWF to download before you can do anything and it's accessible so it downgrades for older browsers or screen readers. Just because Google says things like HTML 5 can't replace Flash on Youtube, they just mean not yet. Any minor features will be added in time like being able to skip to part of a clip without waiting for the whole movie to load.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly


    Most people seem to think that html+js is a viable alternative to flash now that html5 is around. I would challenge those people to go to a website like http://10k.aneventapart.com/ and see how their iphone just EATS IT UP. It won't.



    To me the real reason Flash sucks is that the horsepower isn't there. Not for flash, and in my experience, not for html5+js, either.



    I agree that many HTML 5 apps aren't designed for touch just like Flash so the iPhone won't work well with them and interpreted code in Flash is slow as is JS. But HTML 5 + JS isn't worse than Flash performance-wise and it's open for any manufacturer to implement, they don't have to wait on Adobe doing it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron


    If not for Adobe, the Mac Pro would be unlikely to still exist. You should be kissing their feet for supporting Apple.



    Only After Effects in the CS Suite would tax a Mac Pro, there are many more apps that a workstation is needed for. Also, Apple made Adobe what they are and I think their love notes to Apple show that they know this. Both companies have driven each other's business models so I think there is a mutual respect. This conflict had to arise at some point though and they just have to work through it - neither company will suffer as a result.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone


    Probably an indirect reference to Flash. The way some advanced Flash programmers write applications is to create a shell application that loads other swf files (compiled code) into the main stage. These other swf files could actually come from a internet and not reside in the local app package. I think that is the part that is prohibited.



    It means interpreted code, which is all Flash code. Flash is authored as bytecode as you said, which is downloaded and run on a virtual machine. The Flash packager converts to native code at compile time so there can be no dynamic code run with it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone


    It is actually kind of a bummer though because it could serve as a great platform to deliver animated magazine subscriptions which are loaded into the reader app, if they allowed it.



    They can dynamically load content and even dynamic code so long as it runs through one of Apple's interpreters like the Javascript engine so regularly updated magazines are fine.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr.Millmoss


    Any app that calls for data to be delivered from a server could execute something which is arguably "code" from that server. How can this be prevented entirely?



    That's what the sandbox is for. To run code, something has to allow it to run. In the case of interpreted code, that's up to the VM, in the case of native code, it's the system kernel. On the iPhone, you'd want to call a function like system() with the path to a binary that you'd downloaded but a non-jailbroken iPhone won't let you. Plus if they did allow it, Apple would quarantine it before release to ensure the calls only ran code that was bundled with the app.



    For example, Apple could allow you to run an emulator so long as every emulated call was to run code bundled with the app and nothing else.
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