From the standpoint of today there are still apps on the iPhone for which there isn't an Android equivalent in terms of quality. iMovie is one example. Enterprise support another. There are major game titles from major game studios on the iPhone that are not on Android.
That has always been true of Macs. Is it relevant? Is it a good reason to buy a PC?
Like it or not, Android is a strong competitor with iOS. All the whining and mud slinging will not change that simple fact. I think the new iPhone 4 is a great phone. So are most of the higher end Android phones...
There are thing I like better about both phones. There are things that annoy me with both phones. I would probably be happy with either....
In my opinion the only company that could kill Android is Verizon. They have a tendency to want to lock down all of their devices and force you to pay for their crappy apps and services. It is kind of funny because I think it is fair to say that the Original Motorola Droid saved there ass as the iPhone was stealing many of their more profitable smart phone customers. The Droid is about as open as a smart phone gets. The new Droid X and Droid 2 are locked down a lot tighter. The HTC Incredible is a lot more locked down. The new Samsung is a failure waiting to happen ( Killing Google search was a stupid idea ).... I can see Verizon killing Android and I think they are greedy enough to do it....
If Android becomes as locked down as the iPhone it certainly loses a lot of it's appeal to people who do not want to live in a walled garden.
I really hope Androind continues to do well. It forces Apple to step up their game and give users more features. that in turn makes Google and the Android phone manufactures step up their game.... I think that is a good thing...
That has always been true of Macs. Is it relevant? Is it a good reason to buy a PC?
Yes, it is a good reason to run Windows for applications that do not run on OSX.
Fortunately we can run Windows via Parallels, Fusion or bootcamp on our Macs. If this were not the case I do not believe that OSX would be quite as popular today as it is. I love my MBP but I could not have bought one if it could not run MS Project or Visio. That and gaming. Certain games genres are a good reason to buy a PC over a Mac from a hardware perspective even allowing for bootcamp.
If Android phones could run iOS or Macs couldn't run Windows your comment might actually be relevant. Alas, not.
Especially since the other poster was claiming there was nothing the iPhone could do that the EVO couldn't.
What kind of comparison is this?? They compare Phones from Apple, against Software from google?? What is the point?
If they want to compare how many people use Googles OS versus Apples iOS they have to count with ALL iOS devices, not just iphones. We are missing data from iPods Touchs and iPads.
They same goes to RIM and Microsoft. RIM phone builder, Microsoft software builder.
In terms of showing developers for which OS they should build first, in the case of Apple this information means nothing or better yet, it is not complete.
If they wanted to compare phone makers, than they should compare iPhone versus HTC phones, for example.
I hate when people just throw statistics like is the biggest truth in the world.
Well... you can tailor compare the way you like, but they decided to compare smart phones using different software platforms (in this case iOS and Android).
Sure you could add iPods and iPads to the soup... but why stop there? Windows Phone 7 is based on Windows CE, so lets add all the Windows CE devices as well - thin clients, for example. Plenty of them around.
At the end of the day, I personally agree with comparing devices with same functionality. You compare smart phones with smart phones. You compare media players with media players. And you compare thin clients with thin clients. You don't compare apples and oranges.
Back to original topic... I am sure Apple will remain single smartphone manufacturer with biggest market share, but it cannot fence off platform spread on vast number of devices. One single device cannot cater for too many different desires and tastes. Plus, iPhone has lost one of its strong selling points - exclusivity. There are so many of them around that it has became too common. That might sound silly to some reasonably folk here (and is silly, after all) but even I, moving mostly among computer geeks, know a few self-proclaimed "fashionistas" who were early adopters for iPhone, but are now considering something else just because too many people have it.
It has nothing to do with sophisticated or not. Just the sheer number of iPods vs iPhones. Btw all money in the world and a thousand luxury/sports cars does not make a person sophisticated nor does what phone one owns.
Yet you are arguing with me about the silliness I pointed out regarding calling someone sophisticated about the phone they use?
Microsoft hasn't exactly proven that it can roll out compelling software in the phone market. I would expect a lot of hype from them, but not much substance just like with the Zune device.
They still have more experience in mobile phone market than Apple had when they released original iPhone.
I would keep my eye on them if I were Google/Apple/RIM. Just in case.
They still have more experience in mobile phone market than Apple had when they released original iPhone.
I would keep my eye on them if I were Google/Apple/RIM. Just in case.
I agree with you here. RIM and Android do not have an ecosystem, which is the key to Apple's success.
MS is offering an ecosystem for Windows users with WP7 - games (xbox live), movies and music (Zune marketplace), complete Office integration, Exchange/Enterprise.
I could be wrong and MS might blow it, but a lot of people (not just here) are completely dismissive of MS, which might be a mistake. Bing just became the 2nd most popular search engine, Windows 7 is a great OS. WP7 is getting favorable reviews, so MS is on a bit of a roll lately. We shall see
Yeah but google has a great phone now. Was playing with one today. Gps, wifi hotspot. Free calls to any carrier (sprint I think) unlimited text, 4g and syncs to google apps, like .mac for free.
There's a lot of positive things you can say and soon an OS!?!?!?! That's going to be wild.
Quote:
Originally Posted by widowsoft
First off those of you sitting in glee at the STATISTICS just remember if it had not been for Apple you would still be using your mobile with a crappy interface.
The whole episode proves that competition does not promote advancement, the whole mobile industry were delivering the same same phones year in year out.
Apple who were not mobile phone manufacturers saw that there was a better way and gave it to us.
Now all we can do is snipe etc at Apple.
It is obvious that Android will do better as they offer a free OS to those same dull mobile manufacturers who were content to just take our money without making any attempt to give us what we want or need.
So they can plaster that OS on cheap models as they did not spend much on R&D.
Do not praise them they have only their best interests at heart.
For all Apples failings they year in year out develop products that will make us work and live better. unlike the others in the IT industry who just want your money.
Research is not cheap so Apple products are not but when you buy a cheap PC thats what you get ok for word processing perhaps not much else.
Snipe if it makes you feel better but a lot of what you use today is courtesy of the infinite loop R&D
with the amount of android devices compared to iphone/iOS devices, Android should be ahead. It's kinda sad that they aren't. Google doesn't even make it's own hardware, it's kinda a lame comparison
That's a preety bold statement seeing how msft does not make PCs, yet win 7 is getting positive reviews, out sold vista and msft controls almost the whole computing world, why. I was at this guys house last night. He had a quad graphic card sli, i7, 64 gigs or high end ram and it blazes. All much less than a mac pro and ironically, he can install odd if he wanted, dual boot, blow away a mac pro and save almost half of what it would cost for a mac. You see in PC worlds. As ram and CPU prices drop, it's passed onto consumers. When Apple switched, people thought apple might do the same. No. In opposite. They took away features from all but the 17" mbp and still offer no mid range workstation when they could plus PC users can normally swap out an old CPU for a newer one, you can't do that with a mac nor increase the fsb speeds which gives you fast fx, audio/video and more of it.
Apple is the gatekeeper for the apps right? So who "safeguards" what apps can get onto the Android systems? Free game? What's the security like on Android?
The iPhone is a single platform from a single manufacturer. Android is multiple incompatible platforms that share some commonality, made by multiple different manufacturers, and with varying restrictions from the carriers. The commonality?some flavor (but not the same!) of Google?s OS, comes from being given away free (ultimately to sell ads).
Comparing iPhone and Android is interesting to a point, but it?s apples and oranges. There?s no one company selling all those Android phones, no one company directly making money on the OS (because it?s free) and no one platform for developers to make and sell apps for (thanks to incompatible hardware, multiple OS versions with low adoption of the latest, and very limited Android Market deployment to different countries).
In short, iOS is as strong as ever (and I believe iPhone 4 broke sales records yet again). Android is nowhere near catching up in anything but combined numbers. And don?t forget that iOS includes iPod and iPad. Unlike the different Android devices, they really CAN run most of the same apps, and most of the same OS features! (All of them in fact, if you look at recent models.)
you dint work in business do you??? People are dumping windows, servers and going with Google Pro apps. It's growing fast. That's where google makes some of it's money. When they release an OS, it will be even larger than they are now.
New data shows Apple, RIM, and Microsoft continue to lose ground to Google in the U.S. smartphone market.
Marketing intelligence company comScore published its quarterly Mobile Subscriber Market Share findings, which tracked total smartphone subscribers for the three months ending in July.
So during the three month period that includes two months of presumably depressed 3GS sales, due to anticipation of the iPhone 4, but only one month of iPhone 4 sales, Apple's share dropped only 1.3%?
There's no doubt Android is and will continue to be a major player. There's no doubt that current king of the hill, RIM, is sliding and it's an open question how far that slide will go. There's no doubt that Microsoft is on the outside of this party looking in, and it's unclear whether 7 will change that much.
Doesn't it also seem likely that a full quarter of iPhone 4 availability might reverse some, if not all, of that 1.3% drop?
Shouldn't Android, with its free licensing and greater openness, clearly be in the lead?
Shouldn't Microsoft, with the installed base of Windows to draw on and compatibility with desktop apps and services like Exchange, be dominating?
Isn't it still sort of remarkable that, with no experience in radio or cellular devices, Apple has reached the position is has in a few short years?
Android offers a great deal that is near parity with Apple's offering, but none of the others even come close. Isn't that also remarkable-- more remarkable than a 1.3% drop in marketshare during a period that included a major product launch by Apple in the last third of the period? Is there any possible justification for leaving that salient fact out of the commentary for those figures?
Control where you buy your apps, what services you access, etc., etc., etc. You know, like the good old days, when they made money off all that.
I see what you mean. Isn't it funny 'tho that, prior to iPhone, "talk time" was the most used feature on most cell phones (still is, on mine). Plus I guess, when the rest of the industry sees AT&Ts increased profits since iPhone ..... ( 5,000 percent increase in wireless data traffic ...... wireless data revenue up 27 percent.) .... they would, understandably want a piece of the action. Apple seems to be showing a lot of people that .... adding value can increase profits .. something a lot of companies still don't understand.
I was at this guys house last night. He had a quad graphic card sli, i7, 64 gigs or high end ram and it blazes. All much less than a mac pro and ironically, he can install odd if he wanted, dual boot, blow away a mac pro and save almost half of what it would cost for a mac.
BUT i have owned BOTH phones with both OSes. I have had an iPhone 3G then 3GS then iPhone 4 and now I have a HTC EVO. There is nothing functionally that that my iPhone could do that my EVO cannot do..........budget and schedule constraints have nothing to do with my using the phones....
And this statement, for the most part, is true! Though there are many specialized apps in the App Store, and especially games, for which there is no comparable product on Android. You also wrote earlier, IIRC, that there is nothing that iOS can do that Android cannot do better. I disagree with this wholeheartedly. This is where consumers seem to make the most mistakes in comparing products. For the most part iOS does all of these takes better than Android. It does them with greater ease, more accessibly, with more polish, and in a less time consuming manner. There absolutely are exceptions, including special phone features and elements of Android which are only available to iPhone users who have jailbroken their devices, but the level of engineering which has gone into iOS, and the much higher level of quality through the App Store, is of rather critical importance in making this comparison.
Where the line blurs is in the hands of an experienced technical user. They don't mind all the extra steps and hurdles involved in making their device work the way they want it to. They probably should more than they claim to—it impacts everyone else in their ecosystem—but this is nothing new. Linux is an excellent example of an operating system which can do so many things, but precious few things as well as might be done in Windows or OS X in the hands of a proper computer user (and near nothing as well in the hands of an inexperienced computer user).
Android is great for the right user, and it is a good platform, but I'm not sure how you can make such a statement having used both devices.
Good job, Android. You are nearly able to catch up with iPhone's market share (oops, not yet) by a gazillion of devices.
How fair it is!
Fair? Is this the 17th century where we had "gentlemenly rules"?
It like the iPhone is a huge battleship and Android is made up of a mass of fighters. And when Android starts chipping away at the iPhone battleship's armor, you complain that it was unfair because you don't have a single target to attack. We all know how that turned out in the Pacific during WWII.
Comments
From the standpoint of today there are still apps on the iPhone for which there isn't an Android equivalent in terms of quality. iMovie is one example. Enterprise support another. There are major game titles from major game studios on the iPhone that are not on Android.
That has always been true of Macs. Is it relevant? Is it a good reason to buy a PC?
AGH, why did I click the un-ignore button?!?!
It would be interesting to see how many folks have any particular user on ignore...
There are thing I like better about both phones. There are things that annoy me with both phones. I would probably be happy with either....
In my opinion the only company that could kill Android is Verizon. They have a tendency to want to lock down all of their devices and force you to pay for their crappy apps and services. It is kind of funny because I think it is fair to say that the Original Motorola Droid saved there ass as the iPhone was stealing many of their more profitable smart phone customers. The Droid is about as open as a smart phone gets. The new Droid X and Droid 2 are locked down a lot tighter. The HTC Incredible is a lot more locked down. The new Samsung is a failure waiting to happen ( Killing Google search was a stupid idea ).... I can see Verizon killing Android and I think they are greedy enough to do it....
If Android becomes as locked down as the iPhone it certainly loses a lot of it's appeal to people who do not want to live in a walled garden.
I really hope Androind continues to do well. It forces Apple to step up their game and give users more features. that in turn makes Google and the Android phone manufactures step up their game.... I think that is a good thing...
That has always been true of Macs. Is it relevant? Is it a good reason to buy a PC?
Yes, it is a good reason to run Windows for applications that do not run on OSX.
Fortunately we can run Windows via Parallels, Fusion or bootcamp on our Macs. If this were not the case I do not believe that OSX would be quite as popular today as it is. I love my MBP but I could not have bought one if it could not run MS Project or Visio. That and gaming. Certain games genres are a good reason to buy a PC over a Mac from a hardware perspective even allowing for bootcamp.
If Android phones could run iOS or Macs couldn't run Windows your comment might actually be relevant. Alas, not.
Especially since the other poster was claiming there was nothing the iPhone could do that the EVO couldn't.
What kind of comparison is this?? They compare Phones from Apple, against Software from google?? What is the point?
If they want to compare how many people use Googles OS versus Apples iOS they have to count with ALL iOS devices, not just iphones. We are missing data from iPods Touchs and iPads.
They same goes to RIM and Microsoft. RIM phone builder, Microsoft software builder.
In terms of showing developers for which OS they should build first, in the case of Apple this information means nothing or better yet, it is not complete.
If they wanted to compare phone makers, than they should compare iPhone versus HTC phones, for example.
I hate when people just throw statistics like is the biggest truth in the world.
Well... you can tailor compare the way you like, but they decided to compare smart phones using different software platforms (in this case iOS and Android).
Sure you could add iPods and iPads to the soup... but why stop there? Windows Phone 7 is based on Windows CE, so lets add all the Windows CE devices as well - thin clients, for example. Plenty of them around.
At the end of the day, I personally agree with comparing devices with same functionality. You compare smart phones with smart phones. You compare media players with media players. And you compare thin clients with thin clients. You don't compare apples and oranges.
Back to original topic... I am sure Apple will remain single smartphone manufacturer with biggest market share, but it cannot fence off platform spread on vast number of devices. One single device cannot cater for too many different desires and tastes. Plus, iPhone has lost one of its strong selling points - exclusivity. There are so many of them around that it has became too common. That might sound silly to some reasonably folk here (and is silly, after all) but even I, moving mostly among computer geeks, know a few self-proclaimed "fashionistas" who were early adopters for iPhone, but are now considering something else just because too many people have it.
It has nothing to do with sophisticated or not. Just the sheer number of iPods vs iPhones. Btw all money in the world and a thousand luxury/sports cars does not make a person sophisticated nor does what phone one owns.
Yet you are arguing with me about the silliness I pointed out regarding calling someone sophisticated about the phone they use?
Microsoft hasn't exactly proven that it can roll out compelling software in the phone market. I would expect a lot of hype from them, but not much substance just like with the Zune device.
They still have more experience in mobile phone market than Apple had when they released original iPhone.
I would keep my eye on them if I were Google/Apple/RIM. Just in case.
They still have more experience in mobile phone market than Apple had when they released original iPhone.
I would keep my eye on them if I were Google/Apple/RIM. Just in case.
I agree with you here. RIM and Android do not have an ecosystem, which is the key to Apple's success.
MS is offering an ecosystem for Windows users with WP7 - games (xbox live), movies and music (Zune marketplace), complete Office integration, Exchange/Enterprise.
I could be wrong and MS might blow it, but a lot of people (not just here) are completely dismissive of MS, which might be a mistake. Bing just became the 2nd most popular search engine, Windows 7 is a great OS. WP7 is getting favorable reviews, so MS is on a bit of a roll lately. We shall see
There's a lot of positive things you can say and soon an OS!?!?!?! That's going to be wild.
First off those of you sitting in glee at the STATISTICS just remember if it had not been for Apple you would still be using your mobile with a crappy interface.
The whole episode proves that competition does not promote advancement, the whole mobile industry were delivering the same same phones year in year out.
Apple who were not mobile phone manufacturers saw that there was a better way and gave it to us.
Now all we can do is snipe etc at Apple.
It is obvious that Android will do better as they offer a free OS to those same dull mobile manufacturers who were content to just take our money without making any attempt to give us what we want or need.
So they can plaster that OS on cheap models as they did not spend much on R&D.
Do not praise them they have only their best interests at heart.
For all Apples failings they year in year out develop products that will make us work and live better. unlike the others in the IT industry who just want your money.
Research is not cheap so Apple products are not but when you buy a cheap PC thats what you get ok for word processing perhaps not much else.
Snipe if it makes you feel better but a lot of what you use today is courtesy of the infinite loop R&D
with the amount of android devices compared to iphone/iOS devices, Android should be ahead. It's kinda sad that they aren't. Google doesn't even make it's own hardware, it's kinda a lame comparison
That's a preety bold statement seeing how msft does not make PCs, yet win 7 is getting positive reviews, out sold vista and msft controls almost the whole computing world, why. I was at this guys house last night. He had a quad graphic card sli, i7, 64 gigs or high end ram and it blazes. All much less than a mac pro and ironically, he can install odd if he wanted, dual boot, blow away a mac pro and save almost half of what it would cost for a mac. You see in PC worlds. As ram and CPU prices drop, it's passed onto consumers. When Apple switched, people thought apple might do the same. No. In opposite. They took away features from all but the 17" mbp and still offer no mid range workstation when they could plus PC users can normally swap out an old CPU for a newer one, you can't do that with a mac nor increase the fsb speeds which gives you fast fx, audio/video and more of it.
The iPhone is a single platform from a single manufacturer. Android is multiple incompatible platforms that share some commonality, made by multiple different manufacturers, and with varying restrictions from the carriers. The commonality?some flavor (but not the same!) of Google?s OS, comes from being given away free (ultimately to sell ads).
Comparing iPhone and Android is interesting to a point, but it?s apples and oranges. There?s no one company selling all those Android phones, no one company directly making money on the OS (because it?s free) and no one platform for developers to make and sell apps for (thanks to incompatible hardware, multiple OS versions with low adoption of the latest, and very limited Android Market deployment to different countries).
In short, iOS is as strong as ever (and I believe iPhone 4 broke sales records yet again). Android is nowhere near catching up in anything but combined numbers. And don?t forget that iOS includes iPod and iPad. Unlike the different Android devices, they really CAN run most of the same apps, and most of the same OS features! (All of them in fact, if you look at recent models.)
you dint work in business do you??? People are dumping windows, servers and going with Google Pro apps. It's growing fast. That's where google makes some of it's money. When they release an OS, it will be even larger than they are now.
Blessings!!!
New data shows Apple, RIM, and Microsoft continue to lose ground to Google in the U.S. smartphone market.
Marketing intelligence company comScore published its quarterly Mobile Subscriber Market Share findings, which tracked total smartphone subscribers for the three months ending in July.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
So during the three month period that includes two months of presumably depressed 3GS sales, due to anticipation of the iPhone 4, but only one month of iPhone 4 sales, Apple's share dropped only 1.3%?
There's no doubt Android is and will continue to be a major player. There's no doubt that current king of the hill, RIM, is sliding and it's an open question how far that slide will go. There's no doubt that Microsoft is on the outside of this party looking in, and it's unclear whether 7 will change that much.
Doesn't it also seem likely that a full quarter of iPhone 4 availability might reverse some, if not all, of that 1.3% drop?
Shouldn't Android, with its free licensing and greater openness, clearly be in the lead?
Shouldn't Microsoft, with the installed base of Windows to draw on and compatibility with desktop apps and services like Exchange, be dominating?
Isn't it still sort of remarkable that, with no experience in radio or cellular devices, Apple has reached the position is has in a few short years?
Android offers a great deal that is near parity with Apple's offering, but none of the others even come close. Isn't that also remarkable-- more remarkable than a 1.3% drop in marketshare during a period that included a major product launch by Apple in the last third of the period? Is there any possible justification for leaving that salient fact out of the commentary for those figures?
How, exactly, does one drown in a school cafeteria?
Danger #36, strangely enough, from the best seller .... The Top 100 Dangers of Narcolepsy) ..... falling asleep in the soup! ....
Control where you buy your apps, what services you access, etc., etc., etc. You know, like the good old days, when they made money off all that.
I see what you mean. Isn't it funny 'tho that, prior to iPhone, "talk time" was the most used feature on most cell phones (still is, on mine). Plus I guess, when the rest of the industry sees AT&Ts increased profits since iPhone ..... ( 5,000 percent increase in wireless data traffic ...... wireless data revenue up 27 percent.) .... they would, understandably want a piece of the action. Apple seems to be showing a lot of people that .... adding value can increase profits .. something a lot of companies still don't understand.
I was at this guys house last night. He had a quad graphic card sli, i7, 64 gigs or high end ram and it blazes. All much less than a mac pro and ironically, he can install odd if he wanted, dual boot, blow away a mac pro and save almost half of what it would cost for a mac.
Rule #36 ....
BUT i have owned BOTH phones with both OSes. I have had an iPhone 3G then 3GS then iPhone 4 and now I have a HTC EVO. There is nothing functionally that that my iPhone could do that my EVO cannot do..........budget and schedule constraints have nothing to do with my using the phones....
And this statement, for the most part, is true! Though there are many specialized apps in the App Store, and especially games, for which there is no comparable product on Android. You also wrote earlier, IIRC, that there is nothing that iOS can do that Android cannot do better. I disagree with this wholeheartedly. This is where consumers seem to make the most mistakes in comparing products. For the most part iOS does all of these takes better than Android. It does them with greater ease, more accessibly, with more polish, and in a less time consuming manner. There absolutely are exceptions, including special phone features and elements of Android which are only available to iPhone users who have jailbroken their devices, but the level of engineering which has gone into iOS, and the much higher level of quality through the App Store, is of rather critical importance in making this comparison.
Where the line blurs is in the hands of an experienced technical user. They don't mind all the extra steps and hurdles involved in making their device work the way they want it to. They probably should more than they claim to—it impacts everyone else in their ecosystem—but this is nothing new. Linux is an excellent example of an operating system which can do so many things, but precious few things as well as might be done in Windows or OS X in the hands of a proper computer user (and near nothing as well in the hands of an inexperienced computer user).
Android is great for the right user, and it is a good platform, but I'm not sure how you can make such a statement having used both devices.
Good job, Android. You are nearly able to catch up with iPhone's market share (oops, not yet) by a gazillion of devices.
How fair it is!
Fair? Is this the 17th century where we had "gentlemenly rules"?
It like the iPhone is a huge battleship and Android is made up of a mass of fighters. And when Android starts chipping away at the iPhone battleship's armor, you complain that it was unfair because you don't have a single target to attack. We all know how that turned out in the Pacific during WWII.