Apple's relaxing of App Store rules has 'muted' effect on Adobe

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    Yeah, I was much too broad. I'll backpedal to firmer ground:



    Apple wants lock-in, but many developers sure as hell don't.



    And the average joe doesn't know and doesn't care.



    But you mentioned Adobe was the one that didn't want lock-in. Now it's about the developers? Or the average Joe?



    Backpedalling is one thing, running a mile in reverse is another.
  • Reply 22 of 77
    rainrain Posts: 538member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Onhka View Post


    Apple, like Honda, Ford, GM, SONY, and just about every other company does not stop you from altering YOUR PROPERTY. You have every right to do so. However, if you decide to do so, there isn't a company or service in the world that is obligated to service and support your changes.



    If I decide to install high-performance Holley carbs in my Lexus, I don't expect Toyota to stock, sell, service or support them. Or for sure, honor my warranty. BTW, there is no difference modifying my car or iPhone. They are still forms of "jailbreaking."




    Whatever, a better analogy would be that Apple put a special gas cap on their car and you can only fill up with Apple petro at special Apple gas stations... And there is nothing different about Apple Gas... But you avoid your vehicle warranty if you fill up somewhere else.



    Tell me how that's awesome in any way shape or form?
  • Reply 23 of 77
    I was one of Apples biggest fans. An evangelist even. I was extolling the virtues of the Mac because it was going to legitimately HELP people. Now... not so much. I Apple is getting greedy. I hate to say it but it is true.



    You have the whole iPad market. It is simply a way for Apple to get cozy with publishers to enable the publishers to gain capital through a new medium, which also means a moumental gain for Apple as well.



    Apple TV is now rental only. Not even an option to buy and keep your movie. apple's excuse is that people don't want to manage storage. Tell that to the innumerable DVR users out there...



    You have the iPhone app store. you can't buy software anywhere else and you can develop it any other way. You can bet this is how they want it to be for the Mac too. And that is the direction they are headed.



    iTunes. Trying to move on past the CD before it's even close to time just to force Apple users into relying on them and paying for it. Forget archiving or anything like that. The commonly and heavily used "Burn CD" icon is missing and apple is testing the waters to see how far they can push the agenda.



    their tiff with Adobe is just another example of Apple's greed. They don't want Flash to be viable because it can basically do everything and Apple has not been helpful in working with them. Steve Job's lambast of Flash as old tech is a joke. If anything Flash was ahead of its time and still today does more than anyone can ask of it. Rather than trying to kill flash outright, Apple should have recommended improvements if they were worrying about it making the Mac look bad. but to be honest, the Windows version works great -- and Adobe is not the first to recognize areas of the Apple OS that cause issues with high performance software. I used to serve at a church that used MediaShout software and there was no Mac version at the time. The reason? A serious problem with Quicktime that apple was unwilling to address.



    I still love my Mac and will probably keep up in the Apple ecosystem, but only so nice as it plays nice with others. i moved from Microsoft 5 years ago because of their practices. I'd hate to do it again.
  • Reply 24 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    I don't know about illegal. But I would love to be able to get apps for my iPhone on download.cnet .com or at any of the other usual stores like Handango.



    Apple runs a nice store, especially for some types of people. But prohibiting the wares of any other store is - indescribable to me.



    I have to 100% agree on this.



    I should have the say so on what runs on MY system. Not Apple, or MS or Google, or anybody else. And if someone makes software I want to use, I should be able to use it, no matter what Apple thinks about it. Apple can keep their store and most likely, I will buy only stuff on their, because of the security it affords, however, the option to buy elsewhere is what free enterprise is all about. Apple is being quite monopolistic these days. And definitely using such power.
  • Reply 25 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rain View Post


    Whatever, a better analogy would be that Apple put a special gas cap on their car and you can only fill up with Apple petro at special Apple gas stations... And there is nothing different about Apple Gas... But you avoid your vehicle warranty if you fill up somewhere else.



    Tell me how that's awesome in any way shape or form?



    According to the more technologically-intimidated, it is because you have Apple's assurance that the gas is OK. Just like the apps in the curated app store.







    But to further the analogy, Apple would seek to have it declared illegal to put other gas in "their" cars, going so far as to invent national security threats, and the USPTO would declare that in America, consumers have the right to use any gas they choose.



    Apple would routinely change the engine's firmware so it would cease to function if it detected gas that didn't have Apple's sooper seekrit signature ingredient, and the user community would have to once again foil Apple's crap in order to use normal gas, instead of going to Apple's exclusive venue.



    Other car manufacturers would tout that their cars will run on any brand of gas, and many Apple customers will say that the other gas is too sour for their taste, and that you get what you pay for, and that Apple's gas stations have a better User Experience, thankyouverymuch.
  • Reply 26 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post




    And the iPhone is a good product - but it should be criminal to lock up a device to the extent Apple has with the iPhone. I shouldn't have to do a procedure called "jailbreaking" just so I can run software on a device which is MY PROPERTY without approval from Apple. It should be the default that I can run whatever I want on MY device.




    well, techinically, its NOT your property. you signed a two-year contract with a AT&T. the phone is not "officially" yours until that contract is up. that's why its only $99, $199, $299.



    strangely until apple built the iphone, you heard no complaints about what a phone should be, how phone contracts should broken down, and the TRUE cost of a product, let alone smartphone specs and hacking. Apple builds a phone all of sudden there is a world of phone engineers and arm chair designers. shheesshhh...



    before the iphone it was totally wasteland of disjointed UIs, and battery pulling for hard reboots...



    Did you sign a contract when you bought any other apple or mac product?
  • Reply 27 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post


    I was one of Apples biggest fans. An evangelist even. I was extolling the virtues of the Mac because it was going to legitimately HELP people. Now... not so much. I Apple is getting greedy. I hate to say it but it is true.



    You have the whole iPad market. It is simply a way for Apple to get cozy with publishers to enable the publishers to gain capital through a new medium, which also means a moumental gain for Apple as well.



    Apple TV is now rental only. Not even an option to buy and keep your movie. apple's excuse is that people don't want to manage storage. Tell that to the innumerable DVR users out there...



    You have the iPhone app store. you can't buy software anywhere else and you can develop it any other way. You can bet this is how they want it to be for the Mac too. And that is the direction they are headed.



    iTunes. Trying to move on past the CD before it's even close to time just to force Apple users into relying on them and paying for it. Forget archiving or anything like that. The commonly and heavily used "Burn CD" icon is missing and apple is testing the waters to see how far they can push the agenda.



    their tiff with Adobe is just another example of Apple's greed. They don't want Flash to be viable because it can basically do everything and Apple has not been helpful in working with them. Steve Job's lambast of Flash as old tech is a joke. If anything Flash was ahead of its time and still today does more than anyone can ask of it. Rather than trying to kill flash outright, Apple should have recommended improvements if they were worrying about it making the Mac look bad. but to be honest, the Windows version works great -- and Adobe is not the first to recognize areas of the Apple OS that cause issues with high performance software. I used to serve at a church that used MediaShout software and there was no Mac version at the time. The reason? A serious problem with Quicktime that apple was unwilling to address.



    I still love my Mac and will probably keep up in the Apple ecosystem, but only so nice as it plays nice with others. i moved from Microsoft 5 years ago because of their practices. I'd hate to do it again.



    You see that gun to your head forcing you to use Apple products? Yeah, it's invisible.



    Introducing a new product that's single-handedly revitalizing a once-dying industry (print media) is greedy and has absolutely nothing to do with keeping the industry alive.



    All the zero people I know with a DVR swear by it, and the millions of Netflix users and Hulu watchers out there can't stand not owning what they're only going to watch once.



    Hello, Cydia? Adobe? Yeah, apparently you guys don't exist.



    I do agree that consumers want to go back to the $15-$20 album model where you pay full price when you only want to listen to one or two songs.



    If Mac was at fault with Flash performance issues, then why is it equally bad on Linux? You also said one of the primary reasons Apple would reject Flash for iOS even if Adobe had one: high performance. It's a CPU hog, yes even on Windows, and us mobile device users like not having to keep plugged in.
  • Reply 28 of 77
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rain View Post


    Whatever, a better analogy would be that Apple put a special gas cap on their car and you can only fill up with Apple petro at special Apple gas stations... And there is nothing different about Apple Gas... But you avoid your vehicle warranty if you fill up somewhere else.



    Tell me how that's awesome in any way shape or form?





    A worse analogy really. From my involvement of over 30 years in the automotive industry, it's been my experience that all auto manufacturers recommend a certain grade of fuel, and indeed, usually put a sticker under the fuel flap, with that recommendation, and if you use a certain fuel that did not meet their recommendations and was found to be at fault in wreaking havoc with the engine .... the warranty would not cover damages.
  • Reply 29 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post


    well, techinically, its NOT your property. you signed a two-year contract with a AT&T. the phone is not "officially" yours until that contract is up. that's why its only $99, $199, $299.



    That is incorrect.



    The ownership of the phone passes to the buyer. The best that the vendor may retain is some sort of unperfected purchase-money security interest, but I doubt that they even have that.
  • Reply 30 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    I don't know about illegal. But I would love to be able to get apps for my iPhone on download.cnet .com or at any of the other usual stores like Handango.



    Apple runs a nice store, especially for some types of people. But prohibiting the wares of any other store is - indescribable to me.



    i know YOU think you are clever with the Newton/Newtron thing.. but if you can not understand why apple would not allow for instance Andrip apps into the APPLE store, then i do not think a description or even pretty pictures with small boxes and arrows would help either..
  • Reply 31 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mbarriault View Post


    All the zero people I know with a DVR



    Seemingly, that is not a very representative sample of the relevant market. In point of fact, there are tens of millions, and perhaps more than 100 million households with DVRs.



    Any conclusions you draw from the behavior of the sample you cite are therefor unreliable.
  • Reply 32 of 77
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post


    I have to 100% agree on this.



    I should have the say so on what runs on MY system. Not Apple, or MS or Google, or anybody else. And if someone makes software I want to use, I should be able to use it, no matter what Apple thinks about it. ..... most likely, I will buy only stuff on their, because of the security it affords,



    Do you even think about how stupid these conflicting statements sound before you post ???



    I agree ... I don't agree ... I agree ... I don't agree .... agghh , my head is spinning.
  • Reply 33 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post


    if you can not understand why apple would not allow for instance Andrip apps into the APPLE store,



    Please read my posts more carefully before stating conclusions about my understanding.
  • Reply 34 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rain View Post


    Whatever, a better analogy would be that Apple put a special gas cap on their car and you can only fill up with Apple petro at special Apple gas stations... And there is nothing different about Apple Gas... But you avoid your vehicle warranty if you fill up somewhere else.



    Tell me how that's awesome in any way shape or form?



    well your analogy is even worse... for many, many reasons just jumping off my head.



    gas is expendable energy... like a battery...



    apps are non-expendable, more like a modification to a car that does it only thing, and only depletes when you decide to delete them..



    that was just the low hanging fruit... if that previous post was sarcasm, then i apologize..
  • Reply 35 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crift2012 View Post


    apps are non-expendable, more like a modification to a car that does it only thing, and only depletes when you decide to delete them..



    t



    Much like third-party car stereo systems? We can riff on that too.
  • Reply 36 of 77
    What we know for sure is that Flash is crap regardless of its effect on Adobe's bottom line. My Safari web browser now has a new trick where open windows take 5-10 seconds to close when Flash is running. Otherwise, they close instantly, as they should.
  • Reply 37 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    According to the more technologically-intimidated, it is because you have Apple's assurance that the gas is OK. Just like the apps in the curated app store.



    But to further the analogy, Apple would seek to have it declared illegal to put other gas in "their" cars, going so far as to invent national security threats, and the USPTO would declare that in America, consumers have the right to use any gas they choose.



    Apple would routinely change the engine's firmware so it would cease to function if it detected gas that didn't have Apple's sooper seekrit signature ingredient, and the user community would have to once again foil Apple's crap in order to use normal gas, instead of going to Apple's exclusive venue.



    Other car manufacturers would tout that their cars will run on any brand of gas, and many Apple customers will say that the other gas is too sour for their taste, and that you get what you pay for, and that Apple's gas stations have a better User Experience, thankyouverymuch.



    You say you bought an iPhone even knowing about Apple's closed system... and then you complain. If that isn't the very definition of nuts.



    To you and others like you... use someone else's product if you don't like Apple's product. Otherwise.. stfu.
  • Reply 38 of 77
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    No, it is a "standard" product that comes preinstalled on every desktop, laptop and notebook sold in the entire world. You just don't like it.



    No. It does not come pre-installled on every desktop, laptop and notebook sold. It only comes on specific OEM vendor systems, pre-packaged.



    It is also not a standard. It is a substandard product that is a locked-in product. It is a substandard product in terms of quality and performance. It is a substandard product in terms of not being an agreed upon industry standard.



    We can go on and on.



    HTML5 is a standard, not Flash binaries.
  • Reply 39 of 77
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    No. It does not come pre-installled on every desktop, laptop and notebook sold. It only comes on specific OEM vendor systems, pre-packaged.



    It is also not a standard. It is a substandard product that is a locked-in product. It is a substandard product in terms of quality and performance. It is a substandard product in terms of not being an agreed upon industry standard.



    We can go on and on.



    HTML5 is a standard, not Flash binaries.



    I believe you are wrong on all accounts.



    I don't think you can name one computer brand that does not come with Flash.



    There is no other product that can come even close in features and performance of Flash.



    Regardless of whether a standards board has acknowledged it or not it is already on 99% of all computers used to surf the Internet.



    HTML 5 is not an approved standard and it does not run well on the most prevalent browser in the market.



    And no, we can't go on and on because that is all I have to say to you on this subject.
  • Reply 40 of 77
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,989member
    ...see how far that gets you.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Newtron View Post


    According to the more technologically-intimidated, it is because you have Apple's assurance that the gas is OK. Just like the apps in the curated app store.







    But to further the analogy, Apple would seek to have it declared illegal to put other gas in "their" cars, going so far as to invent national security threats, and the USPTO would declare that in America, consumers have the right to use any gas they choose.



    Apple would routinely change the engine's firmware so it would cease to function if it detected gas that didn't have Apple's sooper seekrit signature ingredient, and the user community would have to once again foil Apple's crap in order to use normal gas, instead of going to Apple's exclusive venue.



    Other car manufacturers would tout that their cars will run on any brand of gas, and many Apple customers will say that the other gas is too sour for their taste, and that you get what you pay for, and that Apple's gas stations have a better User Experience, thankyouverymuch.



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