How about a poll? What is the deal with Verizon and Apple? Why can't they come to an agreement to sell the iPhone on Verizon's network?
1. The iPhone is still exclusively under contract to AT&T for another year or so.
2. Verizon wants to brand the iPhone if sold for its network.
3. AT&T provides a kick back of the monthly usage fees to Apple. Verizon doesn't want to do the same.
4. Other
I favor number 3. It's always about the money.
Dude how much more money do you want? ATT is already paying more than any other carrier pays another maker. Gets ZERO from the App Store. Damn can someone else eat for a change?
1. Current 4G chips are very power-intensive. Apple could have made their first iPhone compatible with UMTS 3G, but decided against it, believing that the chipsets weren't power-efficient enough, yet.
2. Sprint uses WiMax for 4G, which isn't a technology standard that will be used worldwide like LTE. Apple likes to work with established technologies. If there is a Sprint iPhone, it will be CDMA-only.
1. This won't be out until early next year at the soonest, who is to say that power efficiencies haven't been progressing? Plus if there is a process shrink around the corner, that would reduce power usage significantly.
2. A couple of interesting links from the CEOs of Sprint and Clearwire.
I really don't expect to see Sprint backpedal on 4G so soon after they started their rollout. The promise of profits from iPhone would have to be pretty immense or Apple would have to be subsidizing their switchover costs, which I just don't see happening
So for those of you that may have bought an Android-based phone from Verizon... What, if anything, has Verizon done to it? Does it come bone stock from the manufacturer? Or does Verizon litter it with its own applications/widgets/etc. Is there Verizon branding all over it? I'm just trying to imagine what Verizon might try to demand out of Apple.
I have the Moto Droid. It is more or less Verizon crapware free. I did put the Verizon usage app on my phone. I find it interesting... The Moto X, and Droid 2 have some Verison crapware. The HTC Incredible is mostly crapware free. While some phones do have some verizon applications you can typically remove them with having to root ( or jailbreak ) your phone. I does have one little verizon logo on the front and back. It is silk screened, so you could remove it with a little nail polish remover if it really bothered you...
The only phone from Verizon that is really locked down in the Samsung Fascinate. This phone uses Bing as it's default search engine and you cannot change it.... I would NOT recommend this phone....
The only phone that was a really bad Android phone was the HTC Droid ERIS. It was grossly underpowered and was not suitable to some of the newer Androidn OS versions...
I think Android is a much bigger threat to iOS than AT&T is to Verizon. Apple is at a distinct disadvantage by only being able to sell to 1/3 of the US cell phone market.
Wrong! Apple is world wide! They are selling their phones and iPads like hot cakes with no end in sight. Verizon is US centric and if they don't come around to the iPhone exactly the way apple offers it to them (and like it), they won't be getting 3G ipads and future idevices either. Which company will be making more money and therefore in apposition to dictate? US population vs Asia, SA, Europe...you do the math.
Point is, apple has nearly unlimited growth potential. Verizon, not so much. US centric market is small potatoes to apple making and selling 3G/4G/etc idevices going forward. Barring anti-trust issues, its not at all inconceivable that apple could just buy verizon sometime in the future. If verizon is smart, they will make sure to get on the second leg of this train ride before they get shut out again. They can't afford to snub the iPhone and idevices just because they are selling some droids. They need all the subscribers they can get.
Apple has never given in to anyone, be it Media companies, Music companies etc, etc, etc.
There is no way that APPLE needs Verizon as much as Verizon needs APPLE.
Hard to believe that APPLE would release a CDMA IPHONE in January before Verizons LTE network is up an running or IN THE MIDDLE OF A PRODUCT CYCLE. Meaning 6 months into IPHONE4 and 6 months before IPHONE 5.
+1
This is key, although I think there is still the critical unknown, that ATT semi-answered in it's investors call... When exactly does ATT's US Exclusivity run out? Jan 2011? Jan 2012?
I cannot see a CDMA iPhone being deployed. It's such a bandwidth consumer and the feature of call + data is key feature, that anything less than HSPA+ speeds is doggedly slow.
an LTE phone... well then it takes 2 to party. As noted, Verizon must come to apple's terms. I only see that if Verizon has no one using LTE (over capacity without cost recovery), they could ask apple nicely (higher subsidy... as Apple will only enter the market at the $199/$299 cost... an early entry means Apple bears more of the LTE early adopter price). Then of course Apple has to have the exclusivity agreement issue dealt with.
if those things happen in December/January... I could see 'One More Thing...' with a Feb Release.
They said they would cover 30 NFL teams, so keep in mind that there are 32 teams. I am guessing the scrub teams are going to be left out. That's you Detroit and St. Louis.
Wrong! Apple is world wide! They are selling their phones and iPads like hot cakes with no end in sight. Verizon is US centric and if they don't come around to the iPhone exactly the way apple offers it to them (and like it), they won't be getting 3G ipads and future idevices either. Which company will be making more money and therefore in apposition to dictate? US population vs Asia, SA, Europe...you do the math.
Point is, apple has nearly unlimited growth potential. Verizon, not so much. US centric market is small potatoes to apple making and selling 3G/4G/etc idevices going forward. Barring anti-trust issues, its not at all inconceivable that apple could just buy verizon sometime in the future. If verizon is smart, they will make sure to get on the second leg of this train ride before they get shut out again. They can't afford to snub the iPhone and idevices just because they are selling some droids. They need all the subscribers they can get.
Actually if you read a recent article, iPhone is sold by some 150 carriers and Android by 50 carriers. But Google's picked up the best carriers. Apple's got a problem with Verizon in the US, Vodafone in Europe and China Mobile in China.
A year ago, Verizon desperately needed the iPhone. Now. Not so much. The tables have been reversed. I think Android's exponential growth caught Apple by surprise. Apple needs Verizon a heck of a lot more than Verizon needs Apple if it wants to stop the bleeding of market share. You may well argue that profitability is all that counts. But long term, profitability is going to take a hit with dropping market share. Heck, forget long term, profitability is going to take a hit, the moment they go with Verizon at a lower price anyway. And you can bet that they will be taking a price hit with Verizon. Last year, before the Droid, Apple had a chance to nip Android before it became a household name. But IMO, hubris, greed and ego on Apple's part has possibly cost them big.
I have the Moto Droid. It is more or less Verizon crapware free. I did put the Verizon usage app on my phone. I find it interesting... The Moto X, and Droid 2 have some Verison crapware. The HTC Incredible is mostly crapware free. While some phones do have some verizon applications you can typically remove them with having to root ( or jailbreak ) your phone. I does have one little verizon logo on the front and back. It is silk screened, so you could remove it with a little nail polish remover if it really bothered you...
The only phone from Verizon that is really locked down in the Samsung Fascinate. This phone uses Bing as it's default search engine and you cannot change it.... I would NOT recommend this phone....
The only phone that was a really bad Android phone was the HTC Droid ERIS. It was grossly underpowered and was not suitable to some of the newer Androidn OS versions...
Personally, I have no problem with crapware coming from carriers if it will bring the cost of the phone down *AND* I'm able to uninstall it. Putting Bing on the Fascinate and not even allowing it to be replaced by Google Search is absolute BS. When the phone gets upgraded to Froyo, you can replace Bing with Google Search. But I don't know if you can replace Verizon Navigation with Google Nav. The hardware on that phone is awesome. I have the T-Mobile Vibrant. But as you said, I hope the Captivate is a complete flop for Verizon. If that happens, hopefully it will send Verizon a message. Sadly I think enough uninformed users will buy it and not know what they are missing.
Wrong! Apple is world wide! They are selling their phones and iPads like hot cakes with no end in sight. Verizon is US centric and if they don't come around to the iPhone exactly the way apple offers it to them (and like it), they won't be getting 3G ipads and future idevices either. Which company will be making more money and therefore in apposition to dictate? US population vs Asia, SA, Europe...you do the math.
Point is, apple has nearly unlimited growth potential. Verizon, not so much. US centric market is small potatoes to apple making and selling 3G/4G/etc idevices going forward. Barring anti-trust issues, its not at all inconceivable that apple could just buy verizon sometime in the future. If verizon is smart, they will make sure to get on the second leg of this train ride before they get shut out again. They can't afford to snub the iPhone and idevices just because they are selling some droids. They need all the subscribers they can get.
Well, since you invited me to "do the math", let's do some...
I've seen estimates that the % of iPhones/iOS devices in the US vs worldwide range from 1/3 to 1/2. Part of the reason for the broad range is because sometimes people talk about the mobile phones only (iPhone) and some talk about iOS (iPhone, iPad, iPod touch). So let's be conservative and say that only 1/3 are sold in the US. We'll also limit the discussion to iPhones only, which counts against me because the iPod touch is far more popular in the US than overseas (perhaps because it's harder to get an iPhone here since it's ATT only?).
ATT represents about 1/3 of the US cell phone market. It's probably a bit higher than that, but close enough. If there was a Verizon iPhone and assuming similar penetration as for ATT, that would more than double the potential customer base in the US, which is currently 1/3 of worldwide sales. So a Verizon phone alone would add 33% to Apple's iPhone sales. Add Sprint and Tmobile (the other 1/3 of the US market) and you just added 67% to iPhone worldwide sales, assuming they could make that many phones. Or to put it another way, Apple is missing out on 40% of the worldwide sales they could have if the iPhone was abailable on all US carriers.
Missing out on 40% of sales because of a carrier restriction your competitor doesn't have...I'd say that's a competitive disadvantage, wouldn't you?
Your 2nd paragraph is just mixing apples and oranges. Yes, Apple's growth potential is nearly unlimited. But so is Android's. And ATT's growth is just as limited as Verizon's is. They are both US only companies. And they are both on equal footing in the US, neither really has a big competitive advantage over the other and can both access the same potential market. But in the Android vs iOS battle, Android has that advantage of having access to the entire US market, which as discussed above, isn't exactly the "small potatos" some like to think it is.
Edit: And this is not including putting a CDMA phone on other non-US carriers, China being the biggest opportunity with other smaller markets elsewhere.
Only the Droid 1 and HTC DInc came stock. Bloatware has been installed on the Droid X and Droid 2, plus all of Google's services were taken off the Fascinate but I think that's Samsung's doing. Im one that was waiting for an iPhone on VZW but settled for the Droid and I'm very happy with it. It was to sat the least light years ahead of the phones they were offering. There's one lil Verizon brand on it and a Droid eye during booting. I think VZW would agree on Apple's demands but I think price is the remaining hurdle.
Well, since you invited me to "do the math", let's do some...
I've seen estimates that the % of iPhones/iOS devices in the US vs worldwide range from 1/3 to 1/2. Part of the reason for the broad range is because sometimes people talk about the mobile phones only (iPhone) and some talk about iOS (iPhone, iPad, iPod touch). So let's be conservative and say that only 1/3 are sold in the US. We'll also limit the discussion to iPhones only, which counts against me because the iPod touch is far more popular in the US than overseas (perhaps because it's harder to get an iPhone here since it's ATT only?).
ATT represents about 1/3 of the US cell phone market. It's probably a bit higher than that, but close enough. If there was a Verizon iPhone and assuming similar penetration as for ATT, that would more than double the potential customer base in the US, which is currently 1/3 of worldwide sales. So a Verizon phone alone would add 33% to Apple's iPhone sales. Add Sprint and Tmobile (the other 1/3 of the US market) and you just added 67% to iPhone worldwide sales, assuming they could make that many phones. Or to put it another way, Apple is missing out on 40% of the worldwide sales they could have if the iPhone was abailable on all US carriers.
Missing out on 40% of sales because of a carrier restriction your competitor doesn't have...I'd say that's a competitive disadvantage, wouldn't you?
Your 2nd paragraph is just mixing apples and oranges. Yes, Apple's growth potential is nearly unlimited. But so is Android's. And ATT's growth is just as limited as Verizon's is. They are both US only companies. And they are both on equal footing in the US, neither really has a big competitive advantage over the other and can both access the same potential market. But in the Android vs iOS battle, Android has that advantage of having access to the entire US market, which as discussed above, isn't exactly the "small potatos" some like to think it is.
Edit: And this is not including putting a CDMA phone on other non-US carriers, China being the biggest opportunity with other smaller markets elsewhere.
Yes, currently the US numbers are big but going forward, they will become a much smaller percentage of the pie. Look at what is happening globally and you see that China alone is enough to tip the scales down the road. Is apple making inroads into China? Yes. Other parts of asia? You betcha! And I'm sure they have their eye on other lucrative markets as yet untapped. Things look very good for apple and all this android hysteria ignores the fact that the smartphone and idevice market is growing and there is room for everyone to make money--especially as it relates to global growth. All I'm saying is that the global market is way more significant than getting a verizon iPhone. And I am not conceding other us carriers. Verizon is no impediment on apple making deals with tmobile, sprint, etc. This is not about CDMA. I fully expect apple to have a CDMA phone. Whether verizon gets it any time soon is another story.
But biz being biz, this discussion is probably moot. Chances are that verizon and apple will make a deal at some point because it's to both their advantages. I still think that verizonn needs apple more than apple needs verizon and the future global numbers are what i base my opinion on.I
Verizon's chief executive said this week he hopes Apple will build an iPhone compatible with his company's forthcoming 4G LTE network, downplaying rumors of an iPhone launch on his company's existing CDMA network in early 2011.
Why would Verizon be interested in getting a "a tiara-wearing digitally-clueless beauty pageant queen" for their network, as they put it only last December?
I imagine the verizon version of the iphone being filled with VZW apps which run like shit, take up a ton of resources, and require extra subscription cost to boot.
Really, I got my fascinate (galaxy s) last week and was shocked at the battery life. After rooting the phone and removing their crappy bloatware, battery life is the best I've ever seen on any device, and the system is much snappier.
Verizon needs to learn that their garbage software pisses people off. If I don't want it, I shouldn't have to root my phone to remove it damnit.
Yes, currently the US numbers are big but going forward, they will become a much smaller percentage of the pie. Look at what is happening globally and you see that China alone is enough to tip the scales down the road. Is apple making inroads into China? Yes. Other parts of asia? You betcha! And I'm sure they have their eye on other lucrative markets as yet untapped. Things look very good for apple and all this android hysteria ignores the fact that the smartphone and idevice market is growing and there is room for everyone to make money--especially as it relates to global growth. All I'm saying is that the global market is way more significant than getting a verizon iPhone. And I am not conceding other us carriers. Verizon is no impediment on apple making deals with tmobile, sprint, etc. This is not about CDMA. I fully expect apple to have a CDMA phone. Whether verizon gets it any time soon is another story.
But biz being biz, this discussion is probably moot. Chances are that verizon and apple will make a deal at some point because it's to both their advantages. I still think that verizonn needs apple more than apple needs verizon and the future global numbers are what i base my opinion on.I
Fair enough. Note, I didn't say Apple wouldn't be triumphant , just that they are currently at a disadvantage due to carrier restrictions in the US making it easier for Android to gain momentum. Us old folk here will recall the Beta vs VHS wars...just because you have a better solution doesn't mean you'll win. You can still be out maneuvered.
Fair enough. Note, I didn't say Apple wouldn't be triumphant , just that they are currently at a disadvantage due to carrier restrictions in the US making it easier for Android to gain momentum. Us old folk here will recall the Beta vs VHS wars...just because you have a better solution doesn't mean you'll win. You can still be out maneuvered.
Haha. I'm old too so I remember the beta/VHS thing. Interesting times in mobile technology and many more twists in the road coming up.
Comments
wow. Eh, I guess I'm used to these comments. But you need to at least pick on Cleveland too.
It is always fun to pick on the Browns. Only problem is that even my Cleveland friends don't care much about the Browns anymore.
Go Steelers!
How about a poll? What is the deal with Verizon and Apple? Why can't they come to an agreement to sell the iPhone on Verizon's network?
1. The iPhone is still exclusively under contract to AT&T for another year or so.
2. Verizon wants to brand the iPhone if sold for its network.
3. AT&T provides a kick back of the monthly usage fees to Apple. Verizon doesn't want to do the same.
4. Other
I favor number 3. It's always about the money.
Dude how much more money do you want? ATT is already paying more than any other carrier pays another maker. Gets ZERO from the App Store. Damn can someone else eat for a change?
Two problems:
1. Current 4G chips are very power-intensive. Apple could have made their first iPhone compatible with UMTS 3G, but decided against it, believing that the chipsets weren't power-efficient enough, yet.
2. Sprint uses WiMax for 4G, which isn't a technology standard that will be used worldwide like LTE. Apple likes to work with established technologies. If there is a Sprint iPhone, it will be CDMA-only.
1. This won't be out until early next year at the soonest, who is to say that power efficiencies haven't been progressing? Plus if there is a process shrink around the corner, that would reduce power usage significantly.
2. A couple of interesting links from the CEOs of Sprint and Clearwire.
Clearwire CEO says LTE and WiMax compatibile down line: http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/24/c...s-one-verizon/
Sprint CEO not ruling out LTE in future for Sprint: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/05/21/s...ongside-wimax/
I really don't expect to see Sprint backpedal on 4G so soon after they started their rollout. The promise of profits from iPhone would have to be pretty immense or Apple would have to be subsidizing their switchover costs, which I just don't see happening
How about a poll? What is the deal with Verizon and Apple? Why can't they come to an agreement to sell the iPhone on Verizon's network?
1. The iPhone is still exclusively under contract to AT&T for another year or so.
2. Verizon wants to brand the iPhone if sold for its network.
3. AT&T provides a kick back of the monthly usage fees to Apple. Verizon doesn't want to do the same.
4. Other
I favor number 3. It's always about the money.
How about
5. VZ will not allow Apple to sell directly to their customer and they want their software loaded on the phone.
So for those of you that may have bought an Android-based phone from Verizon... What, if anything, has Verizon done to it? Does it come bone stock from the manufacturer? Or does Verizon litter it with its own applications/widgets/etc. Is there Verizon branding all over it? I'm just trying to imagine what Verizon might try to demand out of Apple.
I have the Moto Droid. It is more or less Verizon crapware free. I did put the Verizon usage app on my phone. I find it interesting... The Moto X, and Droid 2 have some Verison crapware. The HTC Incredible is mostly crapware free. While some phones do have some verizon applications you can typically remove them with having to root ( or jailbreak ) your phone. I does have one little verizon logo on the front and back. It is silk screened, so you could remove it with a little nail polish remover if it really bothered you...
The only phone from Verizon that is really locked down in the Samsung Fascinate. This phone uses Bing as it's default search engine and you cannot change it.... I would NOT recommend this phone....
The only phone that was a really bad Android phone was the HTC Droid ERIS. It was grossly underpowered and was not suitable to some of the newer Androidn OS versions...
I think Android is a much bigger threat to iOS than AT&T is to Verizon. Apple is at a distinct disadvantage by only being able to sell to 1/3 of the US cell phone market.
Wrong! Apple is world wide! They are selling their phones and iPads like hot cakes with no end in sight. Verizon is US centric and if they don't come around to the iPhone exactly the way apple offers it to them (and like it), they won't be getting 3G ipads and future idevices either. Which company will be making more money and therefore in apposition to dictate? US population vs Asia, SA, Europe...you do the math.
Point is, apple has nearly unlimited growth potential. Verizon, not so much. US centric market is small potatoes to apple making and selling 3G/4G/etc idevices going forward. Barring anti-trust issues, its not at all inconceivable that apple could just buy verizon sometime in the future. If verizon is smart, they will make sure to get on the second leg of this train ride before they get shut out again. They can't afford to snub the iPhone and idevices just because they are selling some droids. They need all the subscribers they can get.
Apple has never given in to anyone, be it Media companies, Music companies etc, etc, etc.
There is no way that APPLE needs Verizon as much as Verizon needs APPLE.
Hard to believe that APPLE would release a CDMA IPHONE in January before Verizons LTE network is up an running or IN THE MIDDLE OF A PRODUCT CYCLE. Meaning 6 months into IPHONE4 and 6 months before IPHONE 5.
+1
This is key, although I think there is still the critical unknown, that ATT semi-answered in it's investors call... When exactly does ATT's US Exclusivity run out? Jan 2011? Jan 2012?
I cannot see a CDMA iPhone being deployed. It's such a bandwidth consumer and the feature of call + data is key feature, that anything less than HSPA+ speeds is doggedly slow.
an LTE phone... well then it takes 2 to party. As noted, Verizon must come to apple's terms. I only see that if Verizon has no one using LTE (over capacity without cost recovery), they could ask apple nicely (higher subsidy... as Apple will only enter the market at the $199/$299 cost... an early entry means Apple bears more of the LTE early adopter price). Then of course Apple has to have the exclusivity agreement issue dealt with.
if those things happen in December/January... I could see 'One More Thing...' with a Feb Release.
They said they would cover 30 NFL teams, so keep in mind that there are 32 teams. I am guessing the scrub teams are going to be left out. That's you Detroit and St. Louis.
some markets have more than one team
Wrong! Apple is world wide! They are selling their phones and iPads like hot cakes with no end in sight. Verizon is US centric and if they don't come around to the iPhone exactly the way apple offers it to them (and like it), they won't be getting 3G ipads and future idevices either. Which company will be making more money and therefore in apposition to dictate? US population vs Asia, SA, Europe...you do the math.
Point is, apple has nearly unlimited growth potential. Verizon, not so much. US centric market is small potatoes to apple making and selling 3G/4G/etc idevices going forward. Barring anti-trust issues, its not at all inconceivable that apple could just buy verizon sometime in the future. If verizon is smart, they will make sure to get on the second leg of this train ride before they get shut out again. They can't afford to snub the iPhone and idevices just because they are selling some droids. They need all the subscribers they can get.
Actually if you read a recent article, iPhone is sold by some 150 carriers and Android by 50 carriers. But Google's picked up the best carriers. Apple's got a problem with Verizon in the US, Vodafone in Europe and China Mobile in China.
A year ago, Verizon desperately needed the iPhone. Now. Not so much. The tables have been reversed. I think Android's exponential growth caught Apple by surprise. Apple needs Verizon a heck of a lot more than Verizon needs Apple if it wants to stop the bleeding of market share. You may well argue that profitability is all that counts. But long term, profitability is going to take a hit with dropping market share. Heck, forget long term, profitability is going to take a hit, the moment they go with Verizon at a lower price anyway. And you can bet that they will be taking a price hit with Verizon. Last year, before the Droid, Apple had a chance to nip Android before it became a household name. But IMO, hubris, greed and ego on Apple's part has possibly cost them big.
I have the Moto Droid. It is more or less Verizon crapware free. I did put the Verizon usage app on my phone. I find it interesting... The Moto X, and Droid 2 have some Verison crapware. The HTC Incredible is mostly crapware free. While some phones do have some verizon applications you can typically remove them with having to root ( or jailbreak ) your phone. I does have one little verizon logo on the front and back. It is silk screened, so you could remove it with a little nail polish remover if it really bothered you...
The only phone from Verizon that is really locked down in the Samsung Fascinate. This phone uses Bing as it's default search engine and you cannot change it.... I would NOT recommend this phone....
The only phone that was a really bad Android phone was the HTC Droid ERIS. It was grossly underpowered and was not suitable to some of the newer Androidn OS versions...
Personally, I have no problem with crapware coming from carriers if it will bring the cost of the phone down *AND* I'm able to uninstall it. Putting Bing on the Fascinate and not even allowing it to be replaced by Google Search is absolute BS. When the phone gets upgraded to Froyo, you can replace Bing with Google Search. But I don't know if you can replace Verizon Navigation with Google Nav. The hardware on that phone is awesome. I have the T-Mobile Vibrant. But as you said, I hope the Captivate is a complete flop for Verizon. If that happens, hopefully it will send Verizon a message. Sadly I think enough uninformed users will buy it and not know what they are missing.
Wrong! Apple is world wide! They are selling their phones and iPads like hot cakes with no end in sight. Verizon is US centric and if they don't come around to the iPhone exactly the way apple offers it to them (and like it), they won't be getting 3G ipads and future idevices either. Which company will be making more money and therefore in apposition to dictate? US population vs Asia, SA, Europe...you do the math.
Point is, apple has nearly unlimited growth potential. Verizon, not so much. US centric market is small potatoes to apple making and selling 3G/4G/etc idevices going forward. Barring anti-trust issues, its not at all inconceivable that apple could just buy verizon sometime in the future. If verizon is smart, they will make sure to get on the second leg of this train ride before they get shut out again. They can't afford to snub the iPhone and idevices just because they are selling some droids. They need all the subscribers they can get.
Well, since you invited me to "do the math", let's do some...
I've seen estimates that the % of iPhones/iOS devices in the US vs worldwide range from 1/3 to 1/2. Part of the reason for the broad range is because sometimes people talk about the mobile phones only (iPhone) and some talk about iOS (iPhone, iPad, iPod touch). So let's be conservative and say that only 1/3 are sold in the US. We'll also limit the discussion to iPhones only, which counts against me because the iPod touch is far more popular in the US than overseas (perhaps because it's harder to get an iPhone here since it's ATT only?).
ATT represents about 1/3 of the US cell phone market. It's probably a bit higher than that, but close enough. If there was a Verizon iPhone and assuming similar penetration as for ATT, that would more than double the potential customer base in the US, which is currently 1/3 of worldwide sales. So a Verizon phone alone would add 33% to Apple's iPhone sales. Add Sprint and Tmobile (the other 1/3 of the US market) and you just added 67% to iPhone worldwide sales, assuming they could make that many phones. Or to put it another way, Apple is missing out on 40% of the worldwide sales they could have if the iPhone was abailable on all US carriers.
Missing out on 40% of sales because of a carrier restriction your competitor doesn't have...I'd say that's a competitive disadvantage, wouldn't you?
Your 2nd paragraph is just mixing apples and oranges. Yes, Apple's growth potential is nearly unlimited. But so is Android's. And ATT's growth is just as limited as Verizon's is. They are both US only companies. And they are both on equal footing in the US, neither really has a big competitive advantage over the other and can both access the same potential market. But in the Android vs iOS battle, Android has that advantage of having access to the entire US market, which as discussed above, isn't exactly the "small potatos" some like to think it is.
Edit: And this is not including putting a CDMA phone on other non-US carriers, China being the biggest opportunity with other smaller markets elsewhere.
Only the Droid 1 and HTC DInc came stock. Bloatware has been installed on the Droid X and Droid 2, plus all of Google's services were taken off the Fascinate but I think that's Samsung's doing. Im one that was waiting for an iPhone on VZW but settled for the Droid and I'm very happy with it. It was to sat the least light years ahead of the phones they were offering. There's one lil Verizon brand on it and a Droid eye during booting. I think VZW would agree on Apple's demands but I think price is the remaining hurdle.
The Incredible has crapware on it too.
wow. Eh, I guess I'm used to these comments. But you need to at least pick on Cleveland too.
Same goes with all the cold and snow comments.
What about Buffalo? The team is now worse than the Lions and Rams, and there is no one left in the city who can afford an LTE laptop card.
Spoken like someone who has never been here.
Well, since you invited me to "do the math", let's do some...
I've seen estimates that the % of iPhones/iOS devices in the US vs worldwide range from 1/3 to 1/2. Part of the reason for the broad range is because sometimes people talk about the mobile phones only (iPhone) and some talk about iOS (iPhone, iPad, iPod touch). So let's be conservative and say that only 1/3 are sold in the US. We'll also limit the discussion to iPhones only, which counts against me because the iPod touch is far more popular in the US than overseas (perhaps because it's harder to get an iPhone here since it's ATT only?).
ATT represents about 1/3 of the US cell phone market. It's probably a bit higher than that, but close enough. If there was a Verizon iPhone and assuming similar penetration as for ATT, that would more than double the potential customer base in the US, which is currently 1/3 of worldwide sales. So a Verizon phone alone would add 33% to Apple's iPhone sales. Add Sprint and Tmobile (the other 1/3 of the US market) and you just added 67% to iPhone worldwide sales, assuming they could make that many phones. Or to put it another way, Apple is missing out on 40% of the worldwide sales they could have if the iPhone was abailable on all US carriers.
Missing out on 40% of sales because of a carrier restriction your competitor doesn't have...I'd say that's a competitive disadvantage, wouldn't you?
Your 2nd paragraph is just mixing apples and oranges. Yes, Apple's growth potential is nearly unlimited. But so is Android's. And ATT's growth is just as limited as Verizon's is. They are both US only companies. And they are both on equal footing in the US, neither really has a big competitive advantage over the other and can both access the same potential market. But in the Android vs iOS battle, Android has that advantage of having access to the entire US market, which as discussed above, isn't exactly the "small potatos" some like to think it is.
Edit: And this is not including putting a CDMA phone on other non-US carriers, China being the biggest opportunity with other smaller markets elsewhere.
Yes, currently the US numbers are big but going forward, they will become a much smaller percentage of the pie. Look at what is happening globally and you see that China alone is enough to tip the scales down the road. Is apple making inroads into China? Yes. Other parts of asia? You betcha! And I'm sure they have their eye on other lucrative markets as yet untapped. Things look very good for apple and all this android hysteria ignores the fact that the smartphone and idevice market is growing and there is room for everyone to make money--especially as it relates to global growth. All I'm saying is that the global market is way more significant than getting a verizon iPhone. And I am not conceding other us carriers. Verizon is no impediment on apple making deals with tmobile, sprint, etc. This is not about CDMA. I fully expect apple to have a CDMA phone. Whether verizon gets it any time soon is another story.
But biz being biz, this discussion is probably moot. Chances are that verizon and apple will make a deal at some point because it's to both their advantages. I still think that verizonn needs apple more than apple needs verizon and the future global numbers are what i base my opinion on.I
The Incredible has crapware on it too.
BTW aside from the iPhone ATT does its fair share of crippling features and branding of phones.
Verizon's chief executive said this week he hopes Apple will build an iPhone compatible with his company's forthcoming 4G LTE network, downplaying rumors of an iPhone launch on his company's existing CDMA network in early 2011.
Why would Verizon be interested in getting a "a tiara-wearing digitally-clueless beauty pageant queen" for their network, as they put it only last December?
Really, I got my fascinate (galaxy s) last week and was shocked at the battery life. After rooting the phone and removing their crappy bloatware, battery life is the best I've ever seen on any device, and the system is much snappier.
Verizon needs to learn that their garbage software pisses people off. If I don't want it, I shouldn't have to root my phone to remove it damnit.
BTW aside from the iPhone ATT does its fair share of crippling features and branding of phones.
What sort of stuff do they have on the iphone?
Yes, currently the US numbers are big but going forward, they will become a much smaller percentage of the pie. Look at what is happening globally and you see that China alone is enough to tip the scales down the road. Is apple making inroads into China? Yes. Other parts of asia? You betcha! And I'm sure they have their eye on other lucrative markets as yet untapped. Things look very good for apple and all this android hysteria ignores the fact that the smartphone and idevice market is growing and there is room for everyone to make money--especially as it relates to global growth. All I'm saying is that the global market is way more significant than getting a verizon iPhone. And I am not conceding other us carriers. Verizon is no impediment on apple making deals with tmobile, sprint, etc. This is not about CDMA. I fully expect apple to have a CDMA phone. Whether verizon gets it any time soon is another story.
But biz being biz, this discussion is probably moot. Chances are that verizon and apple will make a deal at some point because it's to both their advantages. I still think that verizonn needs apple more than apple needs verizon and the future global numbers are what i base my opinion on.I
Fair enough. Note, I didn't say Apple wouldn't be triumphant
Fair enough. Note, I didn't say Apple wouldn't be triumphant
Haha. I'm old too so I remember the beta/VHS thing. Interesting times in mobile technology and many more twists in the road coming up.