Really? I didn?t think the burqa jokes would start up this quickly? and I had hoped not at all.
Anyway, pedantically speaking it?s the niqab, or face veil, that would make a FaceTime call less effective, not the burqa. Note that the head veil is called a hijab.
. . .
It?s not broke, they haven?t enabled it yet. I seem to recall Jobs specifically saying 2011 during his demo as the carriers need time to add the necessary protocols.
. . .
Maybe, but remember that this service will be using the shortest and fastest distance to establish the connection and Apple stated they were submitted it to become an open standard the day after they demoed it, so I don?t see a requirement for it to rely on Apple?s servers. Especially servers in the US to okay a video chat and to get info on how to connect it.
Dude...Chill! It's Friday (at least where I am) and it is the holy weekday for Islam. I could have also Googled the right word for "Burqa".
Soooo Friday is now ignorance and bigotry allowed day? Got it. Thanks for the info.
No, this Friday is brought to us by more misogyny in the Middle East. Bigotry, ignorance, and support of repressive government policies apparent remain available any day of the week.
No, this Friday is brought to us by more misogyny in the Middle East. Bigotry, ignorance, and support of repressive government policies apparent remain available any day of the week.
Well, the US never met a dictatorship that it didn't love.
"It's not in our hands and we'll keep you posted of any further updates."
Yeah right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150
I doubt it. Apple doesn't operate like RIM. It's the whole conservatism of their governments more than likely. They're afraid their people would use it for live phone sex. I don't know..
It is not technical nor have anything to do with conservatism. Nokia and SE phones with front facing cameras been available in that region for years and you can video call if you are welling to pay the carrier per minute rate.
The carriers are pissed because FaceTime is over WiFi, and soon over 3G, and they can't charge for it so they probably throwing the blame on the government to force Apple to disable it. I wonder what they are going to do about the new iPod touch.
My nephew bought an iPhone 4 in Kuwait, where no official carrier for the iPhone 4 exist but it is sold by third parties, and FaceTime works like a charm.
Skype + FaceTime = No long distance/international calling fees
Well, the US never met a dictatorship that it didn't love.
Like the one in Iraq? Nazi Germany? Italy? Japan? Not that it hasn't supported plenty as well when convenient, but I'm pretty sure your comment isn't based on any actual historical research you've done.
I personally find policies that find that caning women for showing hair or stoning them for adultery disturbing, and presumably the burqa comment was commentary on the policies in place in much of the Mideast. I'm of course happy for you that instead of finding those policies disturbing, you instead are trying to decide how many lashes someone needs for the equivalent of using the word 'shirt' instead of 'blouse'.
Anyway, assuming the lack of Facetime isn't for technical reasons, it's not shocking.
Well, the US never met a dictatorship that it didn't love.
who gives a damn what we call a mask over your face. not 90% of the americans. you are free in the usa to call it whatever you like. and if you don't like our opinions go post on the iran or saudi blog site. it's a free country.
or why don't you stay home and protest to the french. it's a much shorter trip for you but if you come to the usa you can go to the proposed mosque in downtown nyc and protest there. they need more morons like you on the line.
Sure - But that meant I have to be either at Starbucks or place like that. I literally meant on road, as in a Metro or even in Taxi, where my connection to internet is through the 3G network and then are at home on our WIFI.
Get yourself a Samsung Galaxy - or whatever the local version of it is over there - and enable it as a WiFi router. Then connect your IP4 to the galaxy via WiFi.
I doubt it. Apple doesn't operate like RIM. It's the whole conservatism of their governments more than likely. They're afraid their people would use it for live phone sex. I don't know..
That's probably the main reason, to "officially appear to" discourage such things. Never mind webcams and the Intarwebs.
I am concerned about Muslim conservatism. It's a dicey subject.
Here in Malaysia during the Ramadan (fasting) month certain food outlets (except those in fancy shopping malls) may deny serving you food or drink, during fasting times (sunrise to sunset), if you look ethnic Malay (and therefore are Muslim by default - another dicey subject).
I look ethnic Malay even though I'm half-Chinese half-Indian by ethnicity and consider myself agnostic/"freethinker", so every year I run into this discomfort. Theoretically if you show your nationally-issued identity card you can prove you're not Malay/Muslim and be served. Ironically some Malays/Muslims that don't fast because of medical reasons or choice, just get the food or drink takeaway and eat it privately, away from the public.
There are generally three levels of covered Muslim women. The burqa is the most "hardcore", niqab is the common Middle Eastern one. In Malaysia, Indonesia, and western countries generally the hijab (tight headscarf not showing hair nor ears, but showing the face) is more common. Hijab would most likely be seen quite a bit outside of the Middle East in Asia and western countries. The weird thing is, you can see women (and increasingly teenagers - which I am concerned about them having to cover themselves so young, mainly as an attempt at encouraging chastity) -- you can see women with hijab wearing jeans and tighter fitting tops.
Honestly, then, I'm not looking at their face but their T&A, which detracts from the point of covering the head in the first place.
Well anyways, Malaysia and Indonesia, the only few non-Middle East Muslim-majority countries, will have FaceTime allowed on iPhone 4.
As for the Middle East, I just think sometimes, it's a big cosmic joke of some sort that 3 of the few major world religions all ended up coming from the same place and arose in a short period of time. It was like "God", if you will, had to repeat the message a few times, and I think some of us still don't get "it".
that's why it's not allowed. facetime goes live, the burquas come off.
That's a stupid comment. As it's been said before, people don't wear Burqas in the UAE (Burqa is an Afghan thing). The UAE lets you wear bikinis or niqabs, your choice.
Some women do cover their faces (that's called a niqab and the eyes show), and that is because they cover it from strangers and not other family members. Families would love to use FaceTime, they use Skype and other apps already.
Really? I didn’t think the burqa jokes would start up this quickly… and I had hoped not at all.
Anyway, pedantically speaking it’s the niqab, or face veil, that would make a FaceTime call less effective, not the burqa. Note that the head veil is called a hijab.
Not pedantic, you're clarifying some important differences. Niqab is a very serious covering compared to hijab. Burqa, as I mentioned, to me, is almost cult-like fashion.
But I think the point of concern for the governments is that now you have the privacy of your own home where you can where anything you want, or not at all, when using FaceTime.
The big issue in Muslim societies is the dichotomy of public and private behaviour. Even Asian culture has many of these issues. In public, you're supposed to be this, that and not the other. Privately, you can more or less do whatever the f**k you want... As long as no one finds out. If they do, well, it can be as severe as "honour killings", to court action (Sharia laws), to something as mild as personal embarrassment or where nobody cares.
It's a tough question when it comes to social "tolerance". If most people tomorrow thought anything more than a tank-top and short shorts was too conservative, I may feel uncomfortable... (Probably because I'd have to go to the gym more, but you get my drift)
Also, with most societies becoming real multi-cultural, you can have, for example, caucasian women in casual dress, Middle Eastern women in niqab, Asian women in hijab, and Chinese women wearing tight clothes, all mixed around everywhere you look. It can be a confusing situation for men, women, teenagers and children.
Not pedantic, you're clarifying some important differences. Niqab is a very serious covering compared to hijab. Burqa, as I mentioned, to me, is almost cult-like fashion.
But I think the point of concern for the governments is that now you have the privacy of your own home where you can where anything you want, or not at all, when using FaceTime.
The big issue in Muslim societies is the dichotomy of public and private behaviour. Even Asian culture has many of these issues. In public, you're supposed to be this, that and not the other. Privately, you can more or less do whatever the f**k you want... As long as no one finds out. If they do, well, it can be as severe as "honour killings", to court action (Sharia laws), to something as mild as personal embarrassment or where nobody cares.
It's a tough question when it comes to social "tolerance". If most people tomorrow thought anything more than a tank-top and short shorts was too conservative, I may feel uncomfortable... (Probably because I'd have to go to the gym more, but you get my drift)
Also, with most societies becoming real multi-cultural, you can have, for example, caucasian women in casual dress, Middle Eastern women in niqab, Asian women in hijab, and Chinese women wearing tight clothes, all mixed around everywhere you look. It can be a confusing situation for men, women, teenagers and children.
Thanks nvidia, these clarifications are very welcome (to me at least).
That's probably the main reason, to "officially appear to" discourage such things. Never mind webcams and the Intarwebs.
I am concerned about Muslim conservatism. It's a dicey subject.
Here in Malaysia during the Ramadan (fasting) month certain food outlets (except those in fancy shopping malls) may deny serving you food or drink, during fasting times (sunrise to sunset), if you look ethnic Malay (and therefore are Muslim by default - another dicey subject).
I look ethnic Malay even though I'm half-Chinese half-Indian by ethnicity and consider myself agnostic/"freethinker", so every year I run into this discomfort. Theoretically if you show your nationally-issued identity card you can prove you're not Malay/Muslim and be served. Ironically some Malays/Muslims that don't fast because of medical reasons or choice, just get the food or drink takeaway and eat it privately, away from the public.
There are generally three levels of covered Muslim women. The burqa is the most "hardcore", niqab is the common Middle Eastern one. In Malaysia, Indonesia, and western countries generally the hijab (tight headscarf not showing hair nor ears, but showing the face) is more common. Hijab would most likely be seen quite a bit outside of the Middle East in Asia and western countries. The weird thing is, you can see women (and increasingly teenagers - which I am concerned about them having to cover themselves so young, mainly as an attempt at encouraging chastity) -- you can see women with hijab wearing jeans and tighter fitting tops.
Honestly, then, I'm not looking at their face but their T&A, which detracts from the point of covering the head in the first place.
Well anyways, Malaysia and Indonesia, the only few non-Middle East Muslim-majority countries, will have FaceTime allowed on iPhone 4.
As for the Middle East, I just think sometimes, it's a big cosmic joke of some sort that 3 of the few major world religions all ended up coming from the same place and arose in a short period of time. It was like "God", if you will, had to repeat the message a few times, and I think some of us still don't get "it".
Thanks Nvidia2008. Really appreciate you setting the bigot crowd straight. I've lived in the Mid East from Egypt (not really Mid East), to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain and many of the comments here show a complete ignorance of the region at best and in some cases out and out racism at worse. Pretty pathetic in my view.
In Indonesia, where the hijab is more popular than niqabs, it's more about conforming to social norms than adhering to any religious tenets. You see women in hijab going to night clubs and bars. A friend wears it so rude men on the street don't bother her. It's quite effective in that sense really. What bothers me most is that the local imams are trying to enforce this even to really young girls. In rural villages I've seen hijabs on babies which is really quite disturbing.
In Indonesia, where the hijab is more popular than niqabs, it's more about conforming to social norms than adhering to any religious tenets. You see women in hijab going to night clubs and bars. A friend wears it so rude men on the street don't bother her. It's quite effective in that sense really. What bothers me most is that the local imams are trying to enforce this even to really young girls. In rural villages I've seen hijabs on babies which is really quite disturbing.
Nice observations Tania. Women are not allowed to wear the hijab until they reach puberty or the age when they can start to bear children. One interesting fact that I am sure only 4 or 5 would know here is that the hijab is not Islamic in nature but comes from Christianity. Such an informed crowd we have here.
Comments
Really? I didn?t think the burqa jokes would start up this quickly? and I had hoped not at all.
Anyway, pedantically speaking it?s the niqab, or face veil, that would make a FaceTime call less effective, not the burqa. Note that the head veil is called a hijab.
. . .
It?s not broke, they haven?t enabled it yet. I seem to recall Jobs specifically saying 2011 during his demo as the carriers need time to add the necessary protocols.
. . .
Maybe, but remember that this service will be using the shortest and fastest distance to establish the connection and Apple stated they were submitted it to become an open standard the day after they demoed it, so I don?t see a requirement for it to rely on Apple?s servers. Especially servers in the US to okay a video chat and to get info on how to connect it.
Dude...Chill! It's Friday (at least where I am) and it is the holy weekday for Islam. I could have also Googled the right word for "Burqa".
No FaceTime is the iPhone version of a burqa.
Stupid comment.... By the way, they don't wear burqa's in the Mid East. It's called a Niqab. Get a clue before you decide to let your bigotry loose.
Or more like - What good is FaceTime when the face is behind the Burqa.
Do you know the difference between a burqa and niqab? Get a clue before you open your mouth with stupidity.
Dude...Chill! It's Friday (at least where I am) and it is the holy weekday for Islam. I could have also Googled the right word for "Burqa".
Soooo Friday is now ignorance and bigotry allowed day? Got it. Thanks for the info.
Or more like - What good is FaceTime when the face is behind the Burqa.
that's why it's not allowed. facetime goes live, the burquas come off.
Apple removed any mention of it in their documentation too.. so it's not just the screenshots.
i wonder what the problem is. I assume desktop based videochat works over there?
Soooo Friday is now ignorance and bigotry allowed day? Got it. Thanks for the info.
No, this Friday is brought to us by more misogyny in the Middle East. Bigotry, ignorance, and support of repressive government policies apparent remain available any day of the week.
No, this Friday is brought to us by more misogyny in the Middle East. Bigotry, ignorance, and support of repressive government policies apparent remain available any day of the week.
Well, the US never met a dictatorship that it didn't love.
"It's not in our hands and we'll keep you posted of any further updates."
Yeah right!
I doubt it. Apple doesn't operate like RIM. It's the whole conservatism of their governments more than likely. They're afraid their people would use it for live phone sex. I don't know..
It is not technical nor have anything to do with conservatism. Nokia and SE phones with front facing cameras been available in that region for years and you can video call if you are welling to pay the carrier per minute rate.
The carriers are pissed because FaceTime is over WiFi, and soon over 3G, and they can't charge for it so they probably throwing the blame on the government to force Apple to disable it. I wonder what they are going to do about the new iPod touch.
My nephew bought an iPhone 4 in Kuwait, where no official carrier for the iPhone 4 exist but it is sold by third parties, and FaceTime works like a charm.
Skype + FaceTime = No long distance/international calling fees
Well, the US never met a dictatorship that it didn't love.
Like the one in Iraq? Nazi Germany? Italy? Japan? Not that it hasn't supported plenty as well when convenient, but I'm pretty sure your comment isn't based on any actual historical research you've done.
I personally find policies that find that caning women for showing hair or stoning them for adultery disturbing, and presumably the burqa comment was commentary on the policies in place in much of the Mideast. I'm of course happy for you that instead of finding those policies disturbing, you instead are trying to decide how many lashes someone needs for the equivalent of using the word 'shirt' instead of 'blouse'.
Anyway, assuming the lack of Facetime isn't for technical reasons, it's not shocking.
Well, the US never met a dictatorship that it didn't love.
Yet, here we are, mired in two wars over dictators and the like (such as the Taliban) .......
Well, the US never met a dictatorship that it didn't love.
who gives a damn what we call a mask over your face. not 90% of the americans. you are free in the usa to call it whatever you like. and if you don't like our opinions go post on the iran or saudi blog site. it's a free country.
or why don't you stay home and protest to the french. it's a much shorter trip for you but if you come to the usa you can go to the proposed mosque in downtown nyc and protest there. they need more morons like you on the line.
Sure - But that meant I have to be either at Starbucks or place like that. I literally meant on road, as in a Metro or even in Taxi, where my connection to internet is through the 3G network and then are at home on our WIFI.
Get yourself a Samsung Galaxy - or whatever the local version of it is over there - and enable it as a WiFi router. Then connect your IP4 to the galaxy via WiFi.
The Galaxy will be connected to the net via 3G.
I doubt it. Apple doesn't operate like RIM. It's the whole conservatism of their governments more than likely. They're afraid their people would use it for live phone sex. I don't know..
That's probably the main reason, to "officially appear to" discourage such things. Never mind webcams and the Intarwebs.
I am concerned about Muslim conservatism. It's a dicey subject.
Here in Malaysia during the Ramadan (fasting) month certain food outlets (except those in fancy shopping malls) may deny serving you food or drink, during fasting times (sunrise to sunset), if you look ethnic Malay (and therefore are Muslim by default - another dicey subject).
I look ethnic Malay even though I'm half-Chinese half-Indian by ethnicity and consider myself agnostic/"freethinker", so every year I run into this discomfort. Theoretically if you show your nationally-issued identity card you can prove you're not Malay/Muslim and be served. Ironically some Malays/Muslims that don't fast because of medical reasons or choice, just get the food or drink takeaway and eat it privately, away from the public.
There are generally three levels of covered Muslim women. The burqa is the most "hardcore", niqab is the common Middle Eastern one. In Malaysia, Indonesia, and western countries generally the hijab (tight headscarf not showing hair nor ears, but showing the face) is more common. Hijab would most likely be seen quite a bit outside of the Middle East in Asia and western countries. The weird thing is, you can see women (and increasingly teenagers - which I am concerned about them having to cover themselves so young, mainly as an attempt at encouraging chastity) -- you can see women with hijab wearing jeans and tighter fitting tops.
Honestly, then, I'm not looking at their face but their T&A, which detracts from the point of covering the head in the first place.
Well anyways, Malaysia and Indonesia, the only few non-Middle East Muslim-majority countries, will have FaceTime allowed on iPhone 4.
As for the Middle East, I just think sometimes, it's a big cosmic joke of some sort that 3 of the few major world religions all ended up coming from the same place and arose in a short period of time. It was like "God", if you will, had to repeat the message a few times, and I think some of us still don't get "it".
that's why it's not allowed. facetime goes live, the burquas come off.
That's a stupid comment. As it's been said before, people don't wear Burqas in the UAE (Burqa is an Afghan thing). The UAE lets you wear bikinis or niqabs, your choice.
Some women do cover their faces (that's called a niqab and the eyes show), and that is because they cover it from strangers and not other family members. Families would love to use FaceTime, they use Skype and other apps already.
Really? I didn’t think the burqa jokes would start up this quickly… and I had hoped not at all.
Anyway, pedantically speaking it’s the niqab, or face veil, that would make a FaceTime call less effective, not the burqa. Note that the head veil is called a hijab.
Not pedantic, you're clarifying some important differences. Niqab is a very serious covering compared to hijab. Burqa, as I mentioned, to me, is almost cult-like fashion.
But I think the point of concern for the governments is that now you have the privacy of your own home where you can where anything you want, or not at all, when using FaceTime.
The big issue in Muslim societies is the dichotomy of public and private behaviour. Even Asian culture has many of these issues. In public, you're supposed to be this, that and not the other. Privately, you can more or less do whatever the f**k you want... As long as no one finds out. If they do, well, it can be as severe as "honour killings", to court action (Sharia laws), to something as mild as personal embarrassment or where nobody cares.
It's a tough question when it comes to social "tolerance". If most people tomorrow thought anything more than a tank-top and short shorts was too conservative, I may feel uncomfortable... (Probably because I'd have to go to the gym more, but you get my drift)
Also, with most societies becoming real multi-cultural, you can have, for example, caucasian women in casual dress, Middle Eastern women in niqab, Asian women in hijab, and Chinese women wearing tight clothes, all mixed around everywhere you look. It can be a confusing situation for men, women, teenagers and children.
Not pedantic, you're clarifying some important differences. Niqab is a very serious covering compared to hijab. Burqa, as I mentioned, to me, is almost cult-like fashion.
But I think the point of concern for the governments is that now you have the privacy of your own home where you can where anything you want, or not at all, when using FaceTime.
The big issue in Muslim societies is the dichotomy of public and private behaviour. Even Asian culture has many of these issues. In public, you're supposed to be this, that and not the other. Privately, you can more or less do whatever the f**k you want... As long as no one finds out. If they do, well, it can be as severe as "honour killings", to court action (Sharia laws), to something as mild as personal embarrassment or where nobody cares.
It's a tough question when it comes to social "tolerance". If most people tomorrow thought anything more than a tank-top and short shorts was too conservative, I may feel uncomfortable... (Probably because I'd have to go to the gym more, but you get my drift)
Also, with most societies becoming real multi-cultural, you can have, for example, caucasian women in casual dress, Middle Eastern women in niqab, Asian women in hijab, and Chinese women wearing tight clothes, all mixed around everywhere you look. It can be a confusing situation for men, women, teenagers and children.
Thanks nvidia, these clarifications are very welcome (to me at least).
That's probably the main reason, to "officially appear to" discourage such things. Never mind webcams and the Intarwebs.
I am concerned about Muslim conservatism. It's a dicey subject.
Here in Malaysia during the Ramadan (fasting) month certain food outlets (except those in fancy shopping malls) may deny serving you food or drink, during fasting times (sunrise to sunset), if you look ethnic Malay (and therefore are Muslim by default - another dicey subject).
I look ethnic Malay even though I'm half-Chinese half-Indian by ethnicity and consider myself agnostic/"freethinker", so every year I run into this discomfort. Theoretically if you show your nationally-issued identity card you can prove you're not Malay/Muslim and be served. Ironically some Malays/Muslims that don't fast because of medical reasons or choice, just get the food or drink takeaway and eat it privately, away from the public.
There are generally three levels of covered Muslim women. The burqa is the most "hardcore", niqab is the common Middle Eastern one. In Malaysia, Indonesia, and western countries generally the hijab (tight headscarf not showing hair nor ears, but showing the face) is more common. Hijab would most likely be seen quite a bit outside of the Middle East in Asia and western countries. The weird thing is, you can see women (and increasingly teenagers - which I am concerned about them having to cover themselves so young, mainly as an attempt at encouraging chastity) -- you can see women with hijab wearing jeans and tighter fitting tops.
Honestly, then, I'm not looking at their face but their T&A, which detracts from the point of covering the head in the first place.
Well anyways, Malaysia and Indonesia, the only few non-Middle East Muslim-majority countries, will have FaceTime allowed on iPhone 4.
As for the Middle East, I just think sometimes, it's a big cosmic joke of some sort that 3 of the few major world religions all ended up coming from the same place and arose in a short period of time. It was like "God", if you will, had to repeat the message a few times, and I think some of us still don't get "it".
Thanks Nvidia2008. Really appreciate you setting the bigot crowd straight. I've lived in the Mid East from Egypt (not really Mid East), to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain and many of the comments here show a complete ignorance of the region at best and in some cases out and out racism at worse. Pretty pathetic in my view.
In Indonesia, where the hijab is more popular than niqabs, it's more about conforming to social norms than adhering to any religious tenets. You see women in hijab going to night clubs and bars. A friend wears it so rude men on the street don't bother her. It's quite effective in that sense really. What bothers me most is that the local imams are trying to enforce this even to really young girls. In rural villages I've seen hijabs on babies which is really quite disturbing.
Nice observations Tania. Women are not allowed to wear the hijab until they reach puberty or the age when they can start to bear children. One interesting fact that I am sure only 4 or 5 would know here is that the hijab is not Islamic in nature but comes from Christianity. Such an informed crowd we have here.