Unless I'm mistaken, coffee comes from Arabia Felix... Actually, it's even why there is a port called Moka (or probably, the other way round...) So it would be strange for Islam to ban coffee, and make it so that the only place where you can't drink coffee is where it comes from, wouldn't it?
Now again, it is still a debate in Occidental Societies whether to ban alcohol, ban it from advertisement, etc... I've heard that in Texas you need to be over 21 to drink alcohol.
I believe coffee originated in Ethiopia, but that is irrelevant to any such argument as coffee is grown and harvested around the world. However, even if it was only grown in a country that passed a law on local consumption it still wouldn't be strange. The Native Virginians didn't care for the English consuming tobacco for recreational purposes when their culture dictated it was for ceremonial purposes. We now hve plebrynof laws and taxes in the US on tobacco products. And how do Indians feels (I am referring to India now) about their tamarind being the distinct ingredient in Lee & Perrins delicious worcestershire sauce which is used primary on beef.
And which religion is responsible for stoning women who aren't wearing one?
None. But I do remember a religion that used to burn women who are being accused of witchcraft.
Christianity, Islam, and many other religions are a victim of power and politics. In Europe, the church was used to gain and maintain power at all cost. Right now the same thing is happening to Islam. In the Middle East, Islam is being twisted by the monarchist governments to control the people in order to maintain power. If those governments wanted to live by Islamic law then the first thing they need to do is give up their power and begin elections so people choose who to govern because this is an Islamic law.
For example, FaceTime is not allowed in the UAE because, they claim without any evidence, it is against something in the Islamic teachings. However, the government of UAE don't have problems alcohol, prostitution, and nightclubs in Dubai even if those are clearly and strongly prohibited in Islam.
Another example, in Qatar a citizen cannot buy alcohol but foreigner can!
There are thousands and thousands of men AND women world wide who convert to Islam every year because they read and understand the real Islam from the original sources (Quran and Hadith).
None. But I do remember a religion that used to burn women who are being accused of witchcraft.
Awesome!
Quote:
For example, FaceTime is not allowed in the UAE because, they claim without any evidence, it is against something in the Islamic teachings. However, the government of UAE don't have problems alcohol, prostitution, and nightclubs in Dubai even if those are clearly and strongly prohibited in Islam.
Ah, so the excuse iis religion-based.
Question: Between FaceTime, alcohol, prostitution and nightclubs, which is the UAE least likely to profit from?
Question: Between FaceTime, alcohol, prostitution and nightclubs, which is the UAE least likely to profit from?
LOL
There is always an excuse. In Egypt, GPS devices are illegal and multifunction laser printers are only sold with a written authorization from the Ministry of Interior for security reasons. If a phone comes with a GPS feature (like the iPhone) then the GPS feature must be disabled.
I think the FaceTime ban in the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt is stupid because there are already apps (like fring) than can do video calls. I think it is more about money and the religious excuse is just on the surface like always. The telcos want to charge for it but they can't and because the royal family own every business in UAE they can put and lift any laws they want, including "let's ban FaceTime until we can figure a way to charge for it".
I think it is more about money and the religious excuse is just on the surface like always. The telcos want to charge for it but they can't and because the royal family own every business in UAE they can put and lift any laws they want, including "let's ban FaceTime until we can figure a way to charge for it".
Wait a minute!¡ You're saying that people are using religion to justify an unjust political and/or financial gain?¡ I'm surprised no one has ever thought of this before¡ I just hope they don't figure out that fear works, too¡
Wait a minute!¡ You're saying that people are using religion to justify an unjust political and/or financial gain?¡ I'm surprised no one has ever thought of this before¡ I just hope they don't figure out that fear works, too¡
You know what's funny.. When they stone women for adultery they always stone the man too.. But you never hear about the poor guy LOL
I think it is more about money and the religious excuse is just on the surface like always. The telcos want to charge for it but they can't and because the royal family own every business in UAE they can put and lift any laws they want, including "let's ban FaceTime until we can figure a way to charge for it".
Yes, it is about money --- but it doesn't necessarily have to do with royal family owing everything.
France's SFR and Vodafone Germany have blocked VoIP traffic in the past.
Governments allows them to do it because it's about local economy and jobs. If you allow skype and GV, then you are basically taking out money from your economy and moving them into the pockets of silicon valley companies --- which doesn't provide any jobs in your country.
The funny thing about this is American consumer groups are dragging out poor immigrants as an example of the necessity of net neutrality --- because VoIP is the only affordable way for them to call their home country. The problem is that there is no such thing as net neutrality anywhere else either. Poor immigrants can't phone home --- not because Verizon/Google destroying net neutrality in the US --- but because their home country block voip traffic.
Anyhow - When are they going to fix the FaceTime between Wi-Fi and Cell users? I would love to do FaceTime with my kids with their latest iPod Touches while I am on road with my iPhone 4 over my cell Data plan.
Jailbreak your phone and you can do that right now.
Otherwise, wait til at least mid 2011 if not later.
You know, what people do with each other is really their own business. as long it does not endanger anyone then it is not the business for the imams, nor the mullahs, and not even the neighbors to mind about.
Shariah is a stone age law not at all applicable to the modern world.
That's probably the main reason, to "officially appear to" discourage such things. Never mind webcams and the Intarwebs.
I am concerned about Muslim conservatism. It's a dicey subject.
Here in Malaysia during the Ramadan (fasting) month certain food outlets (except those in fancy shopping malls) may deny serving you food or drink, during fasting times (sunrise to sunset), if you look ethnic Malay (and therefore are Muslim by default - another dicey subject).
I look ethnic Malay even though I'm half-Chinese half-Indian by ethnicity and consider myself agnostic/"freethinker", so every year I run into this discomfort. Theoretically if you show your nationally-issued identity card you can prove you're not Malay/Muslim and be served. Ironically some Malays/Muslims that don't fast because of medical reasons or choice, just get the food or drink takeaway and eat it privately, away from the public.
There are generally three levels of covered Muslim women. The burqa is the most "hardcore", niqab is the common Middle Eastern one. In Malaysia, Indonesia, and western countries generally the hijab (tight headscarf not showing hair nor ears, but showing the face) is more common. Hijab would most likely be seen quite a bit outside of the Middle East in Asia and western countries. The weird thing is, you can see women (and increasingly teenagers - which I am concerned about them having to cover themselves so young, mainly as an attempt at encouraging chastity) -- you can see women with hijab wearing jeans and tighter fitting tops.
Honestly, then, I'm not looking at their face but their T&A, which detracts from the point of covering the head in the first place.
Well anyways, Malaysia and Indonesia, the only few non-Middle East Muslim-majority countries, will have FaceTime allowed on iPhone 4.
As for the Middle East, I just think sometimes, it's a big cosmic joke of some sort that 3 of the few major world religions all ended up coming from the same place and arose in a short period of time. It was like "God", if you will, had to repeat the message a few times, and I think some of us still don't get "it".
I'm not really sure Nvidia if you understand what is Niqab, borqa or even Hijab for that matter. In Islam "not in Muslim country but generally in Islam", women are required to cover their hair with hijab or veil and of course cover their body, which means long sleeves, long dress and so on. This is what is required from Muslim women to wear where ever she is. Now, borqa or Niqb is not required by Islam at all, and if you see a women wearing hijab and another one wearing borqa or niqab, you can't say: Ooh, that one with the niqab is more religious then the other one with Hijab!! NO!! and why you can't say that?? because as i explained to you, these stuff like borqa or niqab are not a Muslim women wear. It's the culture of Arabian Gulf Region, Like UAE, Qatar, Oman, Iran etc...
Thats why Muslim Women in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Morocco, Algeria and many other Muslim countries 99.5% will wear only hijab and not borqa or niqab. When the religion of Islam came to light 1400 years ago, the only women who wore the Niqab were the wives of the Prophet Mohamed PBUH, and they were only the women who were required to wear such a dress and if you knew, you would've found it in Quran.
Thats why in Indonesia where you hail from and in the western world, USA and Canada, you will find convert women 99.5% wearing hijab and not niqab or borqa because they looked really in to Islam and decided to become a Muslim, hence, they are wearing the right dress. But if you happen to see a convert in the western world wearing niqab or borqa, then be 100% sure, that people who taught her or helped her understand Islam and therefor became a Muslim, are or have an eastern back ground because as many of you think that Islam is an Eastern Religion, but it's not. It's a religion for every body, if your whit, black, brown, yellow, red!
Back to iPhone
I'm pretty sure that religion has absolutely nothing to do with not launching FaceTime feature, because for example here in the UAE, we are having mobile video calls on regular cell phones beside, they can't stop a feature on the iPhone just because it doesn't fit their point of religious view. We can chat and have video calls using all kind of messengers or have a video call as i said. FaceTime is just a fancy way of saying a video call
In a Taxi... The translation is "Please be polite, refrain from indecent behaviour in a taxi". I think that includes just kissing and hugging, depending on one's point of view...
I'm not really sure Nvidia if you understand what is Niqab, borqa or even Hijab for that matter. In Islam "not in Muslim country but generally in Islam", women are required to cover their hair with hijab or veil and of course cover their body, which means long sleeves, long dress and so on. This is what is required from Muslim women to wear where ever she is. Now, borqa or Niqb is not required by Islam at all, and if you see a women wearing hijab and another one wearing borqa or niqab, you can't say: Ooh, that one with the niqab is more religious then the other one with Hijab!! NO!! and why you can't say that?? because as i explained to you, these stuff like borqa or niqab are not a Muslim women wear. It's the culture of Arabian Gulf Region, Like UAE, Qatar, Oman, Iran etc...
Thats why Muslim Women in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Morocco, Algeria and many other Muslim countries 99.5% will wear only hijab and not borqa or niqab. When the religion of Islam came to light 1400 years ago, the only women who wore the Niqab were the wives of the Prophet Mohamed PBUH, and they were only the women who were required to wear such a dress and if you knew, you would've found it in Quran.
Thats why in Indonesia where you hail from and in the western world, USA and Canada, you will find convert women 99.5% wearing hijab and not niqab or borqa because they looked really in to Islam and decided to become a Muslim, hence, they are wearing the right dress. But if you happen to see a convert in the western world wearing niqab or borqa, then be 100% sure, that people who taught her or helped her understand Islam and therefor became a Muslim, are or have an eastern back ground because as many of you think that Islam is an Eastern Religion, but it's not. It's a religion for every body, if your whit, black, brown, yellow, red!
Back to iPhone
I'm pretty sure that religion has absolutely nothing to do with not launching FaceTime feature, because for example here in the UAE, we are having mobile video calls on regular cell phones beside, they can't stop a feature on the iPhone just because it doesn't fit their point of religious view. We can chat and have video calls using all kind of messengers or have a video call as i said. FaceTime is just a fancy way of saying a video call
I'm sure it will work on in few months.
I think I understand better now.
Currently though in Malaysia, if you are ethnic Malay (which is the majority of the population) you are Muslim by default, with no say in the matter. This is one of the challenges of Islam in Malaysia, the matter of choice. If I marry a Malay woman, for most purposes I have to become a Muslim myself and then become subject to Syariah law. If I don't marry the Malay woman then living together is considered Khalwat in Syariah law, and then I don't know what exactly happens here when that happpens. It is possible to marry a Malay and not have to convert to Islam but that's a very touchy subject, like most things here related to race and religion, everyone is very afraid to confront the issues and have a real civilised debate.
As you mention, hijab is the usual dressing, but I am curious as to what some women here wear, which is not fully a niqab, but instead of just the head covering there is an extra "layer" over their chest and arms... Eg. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/wo...pore.html?_r=1 ...Is this found in non-Gulf majority-Muslim countries? Curious...
Comments
Unless I'm mistaken, coffee comes from Arabia Felix... Actually, it's even why there is a port called Moka (or probably, the other way round...) So it would be strange for Islam to ban coffee, and make it so that the only place where you can't drink coffee is where it comes from, wouldn't it?
Now again, it is still a debate in Occidental Societies whether to ban alcohol, ban it from advertisement, etc... I've heard that in Texas you need to be over 21 to drink alcohol.
I believe coffee originated in Ethiopia, but that is irrelevant to any such argument as coffee is grown and harvested around the world. However, even if it was only grown in a country that passed a law on local consumption it still wouldn't be strange. The Native Virginians didn't care for the English consuming tobacco for recreational purposes when their culture dictated it was for ceremonial purposes. We now hve plebrynof laws and taxes in the US on tobacco products. And how do Indians feels (I am referring to India now) about their tamarind being the distinct ingredient in Lee & Perrins delicious worcestershire sauce which is used primary on beef.
And which religion is responsible for stoning women who aren't wearing one?
None. But I do remember a religion that used to burn women who are being accused of witchcraft.
Christianity, Islam, and many other religions are a victim of power and politics. In Europe, the church was used to gain and maintain power at all cost. Right now the same thing is happening to Islam. In the Middle East, Islam is being twisted by the monarchist governments to control the people in order to maintain power. If those governments wanted to live by Islamic law then the first thing they need to do is give up their power and begin elections so people choose who to govern because this is an Islamic law.
For example, FaceTime is not allowed in the UAE because, they claim without any evidence, it is against something in the Islamic teachings. However, the government of UAE don't have problems alcohol, prostitution, and nightclubs in Dubai even if those are clearly and strongly prohibited in Islam.
Another example, in Qatar a citizen cannot buy alcohol but foreigner can!
There are thousands and thousands of men AND women world wide who convert to Islam every year because they read and understand the real Islam from the original sources (Quran and Hadith).
None. But I do remember a religion that used to burn women who are being accused of witchcraft.
For example, FaceTime is not allowed in the UAE because, they claim without any evidence, it is against something in the Islamic teachings. However, the government of UAE don't have problems alcohol, prostitution, and nightclubs in Dubai even if those are clearly and strongly prohibited in Islam.
Ah, so the excuse iis religion-based.
Question: Between FaceTime, alcohol, prostitution and nightclubs, which is the UAE least likely to profit from?
Ah, so the excuse iis religion-based.
Question: Between FaceTime, alcohol, prostitution and nightclubs, which is the UAE least likely to profit from?
LOL
There is always an excuse. In Egypt, GPS devices are illegal and multifunction laser printers are only sold with a written authorization from the Ministry of Interior for security reasons. If a phone comes with a GPS feature (like the iPhone) then the GPS feature must be disabled.
I think the FaceTime ban in the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt is stupid because there are already apps (like fring) than can do video calls. I think it is more about money and the religious excuse is just on the surface like always. The telcos want to charge for it but they can't and because the royal family own every business in UAE they can put and lift any laws they want, including "let's ban FaceTime until we can figure a way to charge for it".
I think it is more about money and the religious excuse is just on the surface like always. The telcos want to charge for it but they can't and because the royal family own every business in UAE they can put and lift any laws they want, including "let's ban FaceTime until we can figure a way to charge for it".
Wait a minute!¡ You're saying that people are using religion to justify an unjust political and/or financial gain?¡ I'm surprised no one has ever thought of this before¡ I just hope they don't figure out that fear works, too¡
Wait a minute!¡ You're saying that people are using religion to justify an unjust political and/or financial gain?¡ I'm surprised no one has ever thought of this before¡ I just hope they don't figure out that fear works, too¡
You know what's funny.. When they stone women for adultery they always stone the man too.. But you never hear about the poor guy LOL
I think it is more about money and the religious excuse is just on the surface like always. The telcos want to charge for it but they can't and because the royal family own every business in UAE they can put and lift any laws they want, including "let's ban FaceTime until we can figure a way to charge for it".
Yes, it is about money --- but it doesn't necessarily have to do with royal family owing everything.
France's SFR and Vodafone Germany have blocked VoIP traffic in the past.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/int...-voip-backlash
Governments allows them to do it because it's about local economy and jobs. If you allow skype and GV, then you are basically taking out money from your economy and moving them into the pockets of silicon valley companies --- which doesn't provide any jobs in your country.
The funny thing about this is American consumer groups are dragging out poor immigrants as an example of the necessity of net neutrality --- because VoIP is the only affordable way for them to call their home country. The problem is that there is no such thing as net neutrality anywhere else either. Poor immigrants can't phone home --- not because Verizon/Google destroying net neutrality in the US --- but because their home country block voip traffic.
I wonder if this is similar to the blackberry issue where certain services (facetime servers) take place overseas and thus they won't allow it.
That's far fetched, isnt it?
Anyhow - When are they going to fix the FaceTime between Wi-Fi and Cell users? I would love to do FaceTime with my kids with their latest iPod Touches while I am on road with my iPhone 4 over my cell Data plan.
Jailbreak your phone and you can do that right now.
Otherwise, wait til at least mid 2011 if not later.
Tania, what can you comment on "khalwat" ( http://www.wao.org.my/news/20030104k...ts_khalwat.htm) situations in Indonesia?
You know, what people do with each other is really their own business. as long it does not endanger anyone then it is not the business for the imams, nor the mullahs, and not even the neighbors to mind about.
Shariah is a stone age law not at all applicable to the modern world.
Shariah is a stone age law not at all applicable to the modern world.
Belief in supernatural agents is a stone age notion, not at all applicable to the modern world.
C.
...Shariah is a stone age law not at all applicable to the modern world.
Belief in supernatural agents is a stone age notion, not at all applicable to the modern world.
Well, yeah, Something In A Book != Absolute Truth != Man's Interpretation != Law Forever != Your Spiritual Journey
( != means not equal to, for the non-code-inclined )
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
That's probably the main reason, to "officially appear to" discourage such things. Never mind webcams and the Intarwebs.
I am concerned about Muslim conservatism. It's a dicey subject.
Here in Malaysia during the Ramadan (fasting) month certain food outlets (except those in fancy shopping malls) may deny serving you food or drink, during fasting times (sunrise to sunset), if you look ethnic Malay (and therefore are Muslim by default - another dicey subject).
I look ethnic Malay even though I'm half-Chinese half-Indian by ethnicity and consider myself agnostic/"freethinker", so every year I run into this discomfort. Theoretically if you show your nationally-issued identity card you can prove you're not Malay/Muslim and be served. Ironically some Malays/Muslims that don't fast because of medical reasons or choice, just get the food or drink takeaway and eat it privately, away from the public.
There are generally three levels of covered Muslim women. The burqa is the most "hardcore", niqab is the common Middle Eastern one. In Malaysia, Indonesia, and western countries generally the hijab (tight headscarf not showing hair nor ears, but showing the face) is more common. Hijab would most likely be seen quite a bit outside of the Middle East in Asia and western countries. The weird thing is, you can see women (and increasingly teenagers - which I am concerned about them having to cover themselves so young, mainly as an attempt at encouraging chastity) -- you can see women with hijab wearing jeans and tighter fitting tops.
Honestly, then, I'm not looking at their face but their T&A, which detracts from the point of covering the head in the first place.
Well anyways, Malaysia and Indonesia, the only few non-Middle East Muslim-majority countries, will have FaceTime allowed on iPhone 4.
As for the Middle East, I just think sometimes, it's a big cosmic joke of some sort that 3 of the few major world religions all ended up coming from the same place and arose in a short period of time. It was like "God", if you will, had to repeat the message a few times, and I think some of us still don't get "it".
I'm not really sure Nvidia if you understand what is Niqab, borqa or even Hijab for that matter. In Islam "not in Muslim country but generally in Islam", women are required to cover their hair with hijab or veil and of course cover their body, which means long sleeves, long dress and so on. This is what is required from Muslim women to wear where ever she is. Now, borqa or Niqb is not required by Islam at all, and if you see a women wearing hijab and another one wearing borqa or niqab, you can't say: Ooh, that one with the niqab is more religious then the other one with Hijab!! NO!! and why you can't say that?? because as i explained to you, these stuff like borqa or niqab are not a Muslim women wear. It's the culture of Arabian Gulf Region, Like UAE, Qatar, Oman, Iran etc...
Thats why Muslim Women in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Morocco, Algeria and many other Muslim countries 99.5% will wear only hijab and not borqa or niqab. When the religion of Islam came to light 1400 years ago, the only women who wore the Niqab were the wives of the Prophet Mohamed PBUH, and they were only the women who were required to wear such a dress and if you knew, you would've found it in Quran.
Thats why in Indonesia where you hail from and in the western world, USA and Canada, you will find convert women 99.5% wearing hijab and not niqab or borqa because they looked really in to Islam and decided to become a Muslim, hence, they are wearing the right dress. But if you happen to see a convert in the western world wearing niqab or borqa, then be 100% sure, that people who taught her or helped her understand Islam and therefor became a Muslim, are or have an eastern back ground because as many of you think that Islam is an Eastern Religion, but it's not. It's a religion for every body, if your whit, black, brown, yellow, red!
Back to iPhone
I'm pretty sure that religion has absolutely nothing to do with not launching FaceTime feature, because for example here in the UAE, we are having mobile video calls on regular cell phones beside, they can't stop a feature on the iPhone just because it doesn't fit their point of religious view. We can chat and have video calls using all kind of messengers or have a video call as i said. FaceTime is just a fancy way of saying a video call
I'm sure it will work on in few months.
I'm not really sure Nvidia if you understand what is Niqab, borqa or even Hijab for that matter. In Islam "not in Muslim country but generally in Islam", women are required to cover their hair with hijab or veil and of course cover their body, which means long sleeves, long dress and so on. This is what is required from Muslim women to wear where ever she is. Now, borqa or Niqb is not required by Islam at all, and if you see a women wearing hijab and another one wearing borqa or niqab, you can't say: Ooh, that one with the niqab is more religious then the other one with Hijab!! NO!! and why you can't say that?? because as i explained to you, these stuff like borqa or niqab are not a Muslim women wear. It's the culture of Arabian Gulf Region, Like UAE, Qatar, Oman, Iran etc...
Thats why Muslim Women in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Morocco, Algeria and many other Muslim countries 99.5% will wear only hijab and not borqa or niqab. When the religion of Islam came to light 1400 years ago, the only women who wore the Niqab were the wives of the Prophet Mohamed PBUH, and they were only the women who were required to wear such a dress and if you knew, you would've found it in Quran.
Thats why in Indonesia where you hail from and in the western world, USA and Canada, you will find convert women 99.5% wearing hijab and not niqab or borqa because they looked really in to Islam and decided to become a Muslim, hence, they are wearing the right dress. But if you happen to see a convert in the western world wearing niqab or borqa, then be 100% sure, that people who taught her or helped her understand Islam and therefor became a Muslim, are or have an eastern back ground because as many of you think that Islam is an Eastern Religion, but it's not. It's a religion for every body, if your whit, black, brown, yellow, red!
Back to iPhone
I'm pretty sure that religion has absolutely nothing to do with not launching FaceTime feature, because for example here in the UAE, we are having mobile video calls on regular cell phones beside, they can't stop a feature on the iPhone just because it doesn't fit their point of religious view. We can chat and have video calls using all kind of messengers or have a video call as i said. FaceTime is just a fancy way of saying a video call
I'm sure it will work on in few months.
I think I understand better now.
Currently though in Malaysia, if you are ethnic Malay (which is the majority of the population) you are Muslim by default, with no say in the matter. This is one of the challenges of Islam in Malaysia, the matter of choice. If I marry a Malay woman, for most purposes I have to become a Muslim myself and then become subject to Syariah law. If I don't marry the Malay woman then living together is considered Khalwat in Syariah law, and then I don't know what exactly happens here when that happpens. It is possible to marry a Malay and not have to convert to Islam but that's a very touchy subject, like most things here related to race and religion, everyone is very afraid to confront the issues and have a real civilised debate.
As you mention, hijab is the usual dressing, but I am curious as to what some women here wear, which is not fully a niqab, but instead of just the head covering there is an extra "layer" over their chest and arms... Eg. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/wo...pore.html?_r=1 ...Is this found in non-Gulf majority-Muslim countries? Curious...