Nice observations Tania. Women are not allowed to wear the hijab until they reach puberty or the age when they can start to bear children. One interesting fact that I am sure only 4 or 5 would know here is that the hijab is not Islamic in nature but comes from Christianity. Such an informed crowd we have here.
And which religion is responsible for stoning women who aren't wearing one?
Lots of mental gymnastics to explain the abhorant abuse of women in the Middle East. I'm sure the UAE is 'so progressive' these days, but never mind their ridiculous Shari'a courts that continue to exonerate men who abuse, beat and kill women. Other than that... oh and the continued extreme censorship of all media, is a real shining example to the other backward cultures that surround.
It should be pointed out, that every culture on this planet, has had the exact same amount of time as everyone else to progress and advance their civilizations. It's 2010 and if your culture is still trying to grasp the concept that women shouldn't be abused, then crying intolerance is a poor way of explaining/accepting reality. It's about time that Muslim cultures start cleaning up their junk, everyone else has made too great of strides to tolerate this continued barbarism, and the weak minded simps that apologize for it.
And which religion is responsible for stoning women who aren't wearing one?
Lots of mental gymnastics to explain the abhorant abuse of women in the Middle East. I'm sure the UAE is 'so progressive' these days, but never mind their ridiculous Shari'a courts that continue to exonerate men who abuse, beat and kill women. Other than that... oh and the continued extreme censorship of all media, is a real shining example to the other backward cultures that surround.
It should be pointed out, that every culture on this planet, has had the exact same amount of time as everyone else to progress and advance their civilizations. It's 2010 and if your culture is still trying to grasp the concept that women shouldn't be abused, then crying intolerance is a poor way of explaining/accepting reality. It's about time that Muslim cultures start cleaning up their junk, everyone else has made too great of strides to tolerate this continued barbarism, and the weak minded simps that apologize for it.
And Christianity as well as Judaism have such a high view of women. If you think this, go read the Bible. The issue is not religion based but cultural. Many of the so-called experts here haven't spent 5 mins in the Middle East but are FoxNews worthy journalist on how things are. This entire discussion went down this path based on the bigotry of a few individuals who are proud to wear it and show it off publicly. My hat is off to them. To the others that tried to explain who cultural differences are contributing factors to the way people behave, I say don't bother. You are only holding people up from getting to their local KKK meetings.
Oh and my culture. I am not sure where you happen to think I am from but you have displayed again that you have no clue.
not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven clerics. Most of these imams/mullahs are uneducated and they are preaching to an even more uneducated mass. Europe too had its period where the religious clergy held sway and impeded progress. Galileo sprung to mind. It's pretty much similar to how Verizon and google preach net openness but shoots down anything that cut into their bottom line.
And Christianity as well as Judaism have such a high view of women. If you think this, go read the Bible. The issue is not religion based but cultural.
Actually, I think you will find that the common denominator in a lot of patriarchy-based female abuse is the Abrahamic religions, which all stem from the Old Testament. There are certainly other cultures that perpetuate an inferior status of women but nowhere is it as institutional as the mainstream organized religions*. And by far the worst offenders are those adhering to Islam. There is simply no way to ignore this or dance around it semantically, particularly in this day and age.
As some of the more enlightened thinkers of the world have pointed out, if women have to be covered up to prevent the temptation of men, then the problem lies with the men, not the women. It would be better all around if the men were forced to stay at home until they can control themselves.
One advantage for women who grew up in the Middle East: Watching movies that are "boxed" because they aren't in the proper aspect ratio probably isn't nearly as annoying.
not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven clerics. Most of these imams/mullahs are uneducated and they are preaching to an even more uneducated mass. Europe too had its period where the religious clergy held sway and impeded progress. Galileo sprung to mind.
In Indonesia, where the hijab is more popular than niqabs, it's more about conforming to social norms than adhering to any religious tenets. You see women in hijab going to night clubs and bars. A friend wears it so rude men on the street don't bother her. It's quite effective in that sense really. What bothers me most is that the local imams are trying to enforce this even to really young girls. In rural villages I've seen hijabs on babies which is really quite disturbing.
Same trends in Malaysia... Well not the babies, haven't seen that yet, but I have seen girls as young as 12 wearing hijab*. But you're right, women in hijab at clubs, and weirdly, most of those in cleaning services and food preparation services wear hijab (not due to hygiene reasons).
As you mention, the thing is, so many Malay/Muslim women wear hijab, it's the ones not wearing that stand out and are likely to be stared at. So it increases the desire for more women to wear hijab.
*There are also primary and secondary school girls that go to Muslim religious/Islamic primary/secondary schools that wear hijab and a kind of covering that covers their chest as well... like in the picture at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/wo...pore.html?_r=1
Anyhow - When are they going to fix the FaceTime between Wi-Fi and Cell users? I would love to do FaceTime with my kids with their latest iPod Touches while I am on road with my iPhone 4 over my cell Data plan.
As someone said before I've also jailbroken my ip4 and I'm using 3Gunresrictor any of my data using apps I've unrestricted. face time works great over 3G! Me And a buddy do it all the time.
not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven clerics. Most of these imams/mullahs are uneducated and they are preaching to an even more uneducated mass. Europe too had its period where the religious clergy held sway and impeded progress. Galileo sprung to mind. It's pretty much similar to how Verizon and google preach net openness but shoots down anything that cut into their bottom line.
anyway let's get back to the topic.
It's kinda on topic... FaceTime being banned (as it appears to be) from the Middle East has many theological and political ramifications.
Thanks nvidia, these clarifications are very welcome (to me at least).
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns
Thanks Nvidia2008. Really appreciate you setting the bigot crowd straight. I've lived in the Mid East from Egypt (not really Mid East), to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain and many of the comments here show a complete ignorance of the region at best and in some cases out and out racism at worse. Pretty pathetic in my view.
No worries. As I mention I'm still challenged by these things from day to day, and I guess trying to understand. I've lived in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Brisbane, Melbourne, San Francisco, Sydney then back to Kuala Lumpur.
Take today here in Malaysia at a sushi restaurant. It's not classed as "Halal" but "pork free". So there's Muslims in there, some with hijab, eating at the restaurant. "Pork free" is kinda the grey area... Interestingly, there was a sign that said "All dishes are alcohol free except the following" etc. This was a sushi chain restaurant at a major shopping mall, so it's more "trustworthy" than smaller city, suburban or rural restaurants, I suppose.
Also in case anyone's wondering there are tons of Muslims here that go to bars and restaurants and take alcohol, openly. But, they would in almost all cases definitely not eat at a non-halal or non-pork-free restaurant.
A business partner at a kind of corporate product launch/party who was Malay-Muslim said, in an inebriated moment, "Well, you see, the drink, I can just piss it out. The food, it stays in you..."
It's complicated...!
I haven't been to the Middle East except a transit in Bahrain airport so I'm curious about it. There are a lot of MIddle Easterners here though, on holiday/work, and there are an increasing number of Iranian students I seem to come across at the Apple reseller store.
Yeah to be honest from a personal perspective it's all something I'm still trying to understand.
No worries. As I mention I'm still challenged by these things from day to day, and I guess trying to understand. I've lived in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Brisbane, Melbourne, San Francisco, Sydney then back to Kuala Lumpur.
Take today here in Malaysia at a sushi restaurant. It's not classed as "Halal" but "pork free". So there's Muslims in there, some with hijab, eating at the restaurant. "Pork free" is kinda the grey area... Interestingly, there was a sign that said "All dishes are alcohol free except the following" etc. This was a sushi chain restaurant at a major shopping mall, so it's more "trustworthy" than smaller city, suburban or rural restaurants, I suppose.
Also in case anyone's wondering there are tons of Muslims here that go to bars and restaurants and take alcohol, openly. But, they would in almost all cases definitely not eat at a non-halal or non-pork-free restaurant.
A business partner at a kind of corporate product launch/party who was Malay-Muslim said, in an inebriated moment, "Well, you see, the drink, I can just piss it out. The food, it stays in you..."
It's complicated...!
I haven't been to the Middle East except a transit in Bahrain airport so I'm curious about it. There are a lot of MIddle Easterners here though, on holiday/work, and there are an increasing number of Iranian students I seem to come across at the Apple reseller store.
Yeah to be honest from a personal perspective it's all something I'm still trying to understand.
Cheers nvidia2008,
Again another great post that speaks from experience rather the FoxNews spoon fed tripe. There is some debate in Islamic circles regarding alcohol and other things such as coffee or tea or smoking and if they should all be banned or should they be taken in the context of their present day situations. Either way it is refreshing to see someone that has actual knowledge about a subject than someone who lifts their sheet long enough to see the keyboard and spew the standard KKK racist BS. Thanks to you and Tania for posting insightful info.
not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven cleric.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui
I would call that a precision strike - well said.
The clerics are that way because unlike in the case of other societies, there is no separation of church and state. (Turkey is perhaps the exception, but it requires the threat of the military force to maintain the uneasy balance).
Until that happens - and I have no doubt that it will some day, but it'll take a major social revolution - we should not surprised that the clerics are 'politically driven' and 'power hungry'.
The clerics are that way because unlike in the case of other societies, there is no separation of church and state.
In Indonesia, there is or should I say was a clear separation of church and state. Indonesia has no law requiring women to wear hijab. In fact until the 1997, there was a law which banned hijabs.
However now, Shari'a creeping into into our daily lives is credited to a few but extremely loud fundamentalist. Also, in Asia, there's almost no sense of individualism, it's a communal society. It's highly likely women wore hijab to avoid their neighbors gossiping than an act of sincere spiritual devotion.
Fact is though, a hijab is as a foreign as a comet from space in Indonesian culture. So there are also a large number of Indonesian females who refuse to wear the hijab. It's an issue of cultural clash than theological one. We have all sorts of traditional customs that mullahs in Egypt would consider it very unislamic.
BTW, We also have our own version of Indonesian's ulamas who churn out fatwas, but about 99% of the population do not listen them. In reality, they are considered as a joke. Once there were fatwas banning Indonesians from the use of facebook and yoga. Indonesians did nothing but laughed. I thnk there was one about not permitting women to send text messages with their mobile as it may illicit unnatural behavior. The latest ones that achieved national attention mainly for its idiocy were the fatwas against Oreo cookies (yes, you read that correctly) and cigarettes as they claimed it contained pork.
The ulamas had become a source of entertainment for many of us here - whenever they speak we enjoy a good laugh.
In Malaysia the most recent fatwas were against yoga and "tomboys"... Yes, no kidding - "tomboys". Sodomy is illegal in civil court AFAIK but lesbianism is not illegal in civil or sharia courts. BTW Indonesia I think in many ways is more liberal than here. But, as we seem to agree, it's also got to do with peer pressure on what's right or wrong.
Yet, here we are, mired in two wars over dictators and the like (such as the Taliban) .......
And I believed the USA had been FRIENDS with both those countries for years until it fit their oil needs better to wage war. How ignorant from me to not know the great freedom fighters actually had a moral reason... I call BS on the "dictatorship" reason.
Again another great post that speaks from experience rather the FoxNews spoon fed tripe. There is some debate in Islamic circles regarding alcohol and other things such as coffee or tea or smoking and if they should all be banned or should they be taken in the context of their present day situations. Either way it is refreshing to see someone that has actual knowledge about a subject than someone who lifts their sheet long enough to see the keyboard and spew the standard KKK racist BS. Thanks to you and Tania for posting insightful info.
Unless I'm mistaken, coffee comes from Arabia Felix... Actually, it's even why there is a port called Moka (or probably, the other way round...) So it would be strange for Islam to ban coffee, and make it so that the only place where you can't drink coffee is where it comes from, wouldn't it?
Now again, it is still a debate in Occidental Societies whether to ban alcohol, ban it from advertisement, etc... I've heard that in Texas you need to be over 21 to drink alcohol.
In Indonesia, there is or should I say was a clear separation of church and state. Indonesia has no law requiring women to wear hijab. In fact until the 1997, there was a law which banned hijabs.
However now, Shari'a creeping into into our daily lives is credited to a few but extremely loud fundamentalist. Also, in Asia, there's almost no sense of individualism, it's a communal society. It's highly likely women wore hijab to avoid their neighbors gossiping than an act of sincere spiritual devotion.
Fact is though, a hijab is as a foreign as a comet from space in Indonesian culture. So there are also a large number of Indonesian females who refuse to wear the hijab. It's an issue of cultural clash than theological one. We have all sorts of traditional customs that mullahs in Egypt would consider it very unislamic.
BTW, We also have our own version of Indonesian's ulamas who churn out fatwas, but about 99% of the population do not listen them. In reality, they are considered as a joke. Once there were fatwas banning Indonesians from the use of facebook and yoga. Indonesians did nothing but laughed. I thnk there was one about not permitting women to send text messages with their mobile as it may illicit unnatural behavior. The latest ones that achieved national attention mainly for its idiocy were the fatwas against Oreo cookies (yes, you read that correctly) and cigarettes as they claimed it contained pork.
The ulamas had become a source of entertainment for many of us here - whenever they speak we enjoy a good laugh.
Comments
Such an informed crowd we have here.
+1... (the dots are because of the 5 character minimum -___-)
Nice observations Tania. Women are not allowed to wear the hijab until they reach puberty or the age when they can start to bear children. One interesting fact that I am sure only 4 or 5 would know here is that the hijab is not Islamic in nature but comes from Christianity. Such an informed crowd we have here.
And which religion is responsible for stoning women who aren't wearing one?
Lots of mental gymnastics to explain the abhorant abuse of women in the Middle East. I'm sure the UAE is 'so progressive' these days, but never mind their ridiculous Shari'a courts that continue to exonerate men who abuse, beat and kill women. Other than that... oh and the continued extreme censorship of all media, is a real shining example to the other backward cultures that surround.
It should be pointed out, that every culture on this planet, has had the exact same amount of time as everyone else to progress and advance their civilizations. It's 2010 and if your culture is still trying to grasp the concept that women shouldn't be abused, then crying intolerance is a poor way of explaining/accepting reality. It's about time that Muslim cultures start cleaning up their junk, everyone else has made too great of strides to tolerate this continued barbarism, and the weak minded simps that apologize for it.
And which religion is responsible for stoning women who aren't wearing one?
Lots of mental gymnastics to explain the abhorant abuse of women in the Middle East. I'm sure the UAE is 'so progressive' these days, but never mind their ridiculous Shari'a courts that continue to exonerate men who abuse, beat and kill women. Other than that... oh and the continued extreme censorship of all media, is a real shining example to the other backward cultures that surround.
It should be pointed out, that every culture on this planet, has had the exact same amount of time as everyone else to progress and advance their civilizations. It's 2010 and if your culture is still trying to grasp the concept that women shouldn't be abused, then crying intolerance is a poor way of explaining/accepting reality. It's about time that Muslim cultures start cleaning up their junk, everyone else has made too great of strides to tolerate this continued barbarism, and the weak minded simps that apologize for it.
And Christianity as well as Judaism have such a high view of women. If you think this, go read the Bible. The issue is not religion based but cultural. Many of the so-called experts here haven't spent 5 mins in the Middle East but are FoxNews worthy journalist on how things are. This entire discussion went down this path based on the bigotry of a few individuals who are proud to wear it and show it off publicly. My hat is off to them. To the others that tried to explain who cultural differences are contributing factors to the way people behave, I say don't bother. You are only holding people up from getting to their local KKK meetings.
Oh and my culture. I am not sure where you happen to think I am from but you have displayed again that you have no clue.
anyway let's get back to the topic.
And Christianity as well as Judaism have such a high view of women. If you think this, go read the Bible. The issue is not religion based but cultural.
Actually, I think you will find that the common denominator in a lot of patriarchy-based female abuse is the Abrahamic religions, which all stem from the Old Testament. There are certainly other cultures that perpetuate an inferior status of women but nowhere is it as institutional as the mainstream organized religions*. And by far the worst offenders are those adhering to Islam. There is simply no way to ignore this or dance around it semantically, particularly in this day and age.
As some of the more enlightened thinkers of the world have pointed out, if women have to be covered up to prevent the temptation of men, then the problem lies with the men, not the women. It would be better all around if the men were forced to stay at home until they can control themselves.
*For those seeking examples, look here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/women/long.html
not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven clerics. Most of these imams/mullahs are uneducated and they are preaching to an even more uneducated mass. Europe too had its period where the religious clergy held sway and impeded progress. Galileo sprung to mind.
I would call that a precision strike - well said.
In Indonesia, where the hijab is more popular than niqabs, it's more about conforming to social norms than adhering to any religious tenets. You see women in hijab going to night clubs and bars. A friend wears it so rude men on the street don't bother her. It's quite effective in that sense really. What bothers me most is that the local imams are trying to enforce this even to really young girls. In rural villages I've seen hijabs on babies which is really quite disturbing.
Same trends in Malaysia... Well not the babies, haven't seen that yet, but I have seen girls as young as 12 wearing hijab*. But you're right, women in hijab at clubs, and weirdly, most of those in cleaning services and food preparation services wear hijab (not due to hygiene reasons).
As you mention, the thing is, so many Malay/Muslim women wear hijab, it's the ones not wearing that stand out and are likely to be stared at. So it increases the desire for more women to wear hijab.
*There are also primary and secondary school girls that go to Muslim religious/Islamic primary/secondary schools that wear hijab and a kind of covering that covers their chest as well... like in the picture at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/wo...pore.html?_r=1
Anyhow - When are they going to fix the FaceTime between Wi-Fi and Cell users? I would love to do FaceTime with my kids with their latest iPod Touches while I am on road with my iPhone 4 over my cell Data plan.
As someone said before I've also jailbroken my ip4 and I'm using 3Gunresrictor any of my data using apps I've unrestricted. face time works great over 3G! Me And a buddy do it all the time.
not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven clerics. Most of these imams/mullahs are uneducated and they are preaching to an even more uneducated mass. Europe too had its period where the religious clergy held sway and impeded progress. Galileo sprung to mind. It's pretty much similar to how Verizon and google preach net openness but shoots down anything that cut into their bottom line.
anyway let's get back to the topic.
It's kinda on topic... FaceTime being banned (as it appears to be) from the Middle East has many theological and political ramifications.
Thanks nvidia, these clarifications are very welcome (to me at least).
Thanks Nvidia2008. Really appreciate you setting the bigot crowd straight. I've lived in the Mid East from Egypt (not really Mid East), to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain and many of the comments here show a complete ignorance of the region at best and in some cases out and out racism at worse. Pretty pathetic in my view.
No worries. As I mention I'm still challenged by these things from day to day, and I guess trying to understand. I've lived in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Brisbane, Melbourne, San Francisco, Sydney then back to Kuala Lumpur.
Take today here in Malaysia at a sushi restaurant. It's not classed as "Halal" but "pork free". So there's Muslims in there, some with hijab, eating at the restaurant. "Pork free" is kinda the grey area... Interestingly, there was a sign that said "All dishes are alcohol free except the following" etc. This was a sushi chain restaurant at a major shopping mall, so it's more "trustworthy" than smaller city, suburban or rural restaurants, I suppose.
Also in case anyone's wondering there are tons of Muslims here that go to bars and restaurants and take alcohol, openly. But, they would in almost all cases definitely not eat at a non-halal or non-pork-free restaurant.
A business partner at a kind of corporate product launch/party who was Malay-Muslim said, in an inebriated moment, "Well, you see, the drink, I can just piss it out. The food, it stays in you..."
It's complicated...!
I haven't been to the Middle East except a transit in Bahrain airport so I'm curious about it. There are a lot of MIddle Easterners here though, on holiday/work, and there are an increasing number of Iranian students I seem to come across at the Apple reseller store.
Yeah to be honest from a personal perspective it's all something I'm still trying to understand.
No worries. As I mention I'm still challenged by these things from day to day, and I guess trying to understand. I've lived in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Brisbane, Melbourne, San Francisco, Sydney then back to Kuala Lumpur.
Take today here in Malaysia at a sushi restaurant. It's not classed as "Halal" but "pork free". So there's Muslims in there, some with hijab, eating at the restaurant. "Pork free" is kinda the grey area... Interestingly, there was a sign that said "All dishes are alcohol free except the following" etc. This was a sushi chain restaurant at a major shopping mall, so it's more "trustworthy" than smaller city, suburban or rural restaurants, I suppose.
Also in case anyone's wondering there are tons of Muslims here that go to bars and restaurants and take alcohol, openly. But, they would in almost all cases definitely not eat at a non-halal or non-pork-free restaurant.
A business partner at a kind of corporate product launch/party who was Malay-Muslim said, in an inebriated moment, "Well, you see, the drink, I can just piss it out. The food, it stays in you..."
It's complicated...!
I haven't been to the Middle East except a transit in Bahrain airport so I'm curious about it. There are a lot of MIddle Easterners here though, on holiday/work, and there are an increasing number of Iranian students I seem to come across at the Apple reseller store.
Yeah to be honest from a personal perspective it's all something I'm still trying to understand.
Cheers nvidia2008,
Again another great post that speaks from experience rather the FoxNews spoon fed tripe. There is some debate in Islamic circles regarding alcohol and other things such as coffee or tea or smoking and if they should all be banned or should they be taken in the context of their present day situations. Either way it is refreshing to see someone that has actual knowledge about a subject than someone who lifts their sheet long enough to see the keyboard and spew the standard KKK racist BS. Thanks to you and Tania for posting insightful info.
not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven cleric.....
I would call that a precision strike - well said.
The clerics are that way because unlike in the case of other societies, there is no separation of church and state. (Turkey is perhaps the exception, but it requires the threat of the military force to maintain the uneasy balance).
Until that happens - and I have no doubt that it will some day, but it'll take a major social revolution - we should not surprised that the clerics are 'politically driven' and 'power hungry'.
Do you know the difference between a burqa and niqab? Get a clue before you open your mouth with stupidity.
and who cares WHAT it's called. the point is still the same.
The clerics are that way because unlike in the case of other societies, there is no separation of church and state.
In Indonesia, there is or should I say was a clear separation of church and state. Indonesia has no law requiring women to wear hijab. In fact until the 1997, there was a law which banned hijabs.
However now, Shari'a creeping into into our daily lives is credited to a few but extremely loud fundamentalist. Also, in Asia, there's almost no sense of individualism, it's a communal society. It's highly likely women wore hijab to avoid their neighbors gossiping than an act of sincere spiritual devotion.
Fact is though, a hijab is as a foreign as a comet from space in Indonesian culture. So there are also a large number of Indonesian females who refuse to wear the hijab. It's an issue of cultural clash than theological one. We have all sorts of traditional customs that mullahs in Egypt would consider it very unislamic.
BTW, We also have our own version of Indonesian's ulamas who churn out fatwas, but about 99% of the population do not listen them. In reality, they are considered as a joke. Once there were fatwas banning Indonesians from the use of facebook and yoga. Indonesians did nothing but laughed. I thnk there was one about not permitting women to send text messages with their mobile as it may illicit unnatural behavior. The latest ones that achieved national attention mainly for its idiocy were the fatwas against Oreo cookies (yes, you read that correctly) and cigarettes as they claimed it contained pork.
The ulamas had become a source of entertainment for many of us here - whenever they speak we enjoy a good laugh.
Yet, here we are, mired in two wars over dictators and the like (such as the Taliban) .......
And I believed the USA had been FRIENDS with both those countries for years until it fit their oil needs better to wage war. How ignorant from me to not know the great freedom fighters actually had a moral reason... I call BS on the "dictatorship" reason.
Cheers nvidia2008,
Again another great post that speaks from experience rather the FoxNews spoon fed tripe. There is some debate in Islamic circles regarding alcohol and other things such as coffee or tea or smoking and if they should all be banned or should they be taken in the context of their present day situations. Either way it is refreshing to see someone that has actual knowledge about a subject than someone who lifts their sheet long enough to see the keyboard and spew the standard KKK racist BS. Thanks to you and Tania for posting insightful info.
Unless I'm mistaken, coffee comes from Arabia Felix... Actually, it's even why there is a port called Moka (or probably, the other way round...) So it would be strange for Islam to ban coffee, and make it so that the only place where you can't drink coffee is where it comes from, wouldn't it?
Now again, it is still a debate in Occidental Societies whether to ban alcohol, ban it from advertisement, etc... I've heard that in Texas you need to be over 21 to drink alcohol.
In Indonesia, there is or should I say was a clear separation of church and state. Indonesia has no law requiring women to wear hijab. In fact until the 1997, there was a law which banned hijabs.
However now, Shari'a creeping into into our daily lives is credited to a few but extremely loud fundamentalist. Also, in Asia, there's almost no sense of individualism, it's a communal society. It's highly likely women wore hijab to avoid their neighbors gossiping than an act of sincere spiritual devotion.
Fact is though, a hijab is as a foreign as a comet from space in Indonesian culture. So there are also a large number of Indonesian females who refuse to wear the hijab. It's an issue of cultural clash than theological one. We have all sorts of traditional customs that mullahs in Egypt would consider it very unislamic.
BTW, We also have our own version of Indonesian's ulamas who churn out fatwas, but about 99% of the population do not listen them. In reality, they are considered as a joke. Once there were fatwas banning Indonesians from the use of facebook and yoga. Indonesians did nothing but laughed. I thnk there was one about not permitting women to send text messages with their mobile as it may illicit unnatural behavior. The latest ones that achieved national attention mainly for its idiocy were the fatwas against Oreo cookies (yes, you read that correctly) and cigarettes as they claimed it contained pork.
The ulamas had become a source of entertainment for many of us here - whenever they speak we enjoy a good laugh.