you're correct. dell will push the price of apple's other competitor's products down. the ipad is a huge success for apple. why should they lower their price?
furthermore, dell doesn't offer the whole 'experience'. they built the thing and are perfectly happy to field calls for failing hardware, but the consumer has to go to android support for bugs, and other software problems.
while i don't think it will be a complete failure, it won't push dell much further in the market. besides, apple is already on their 2nd generation ipad (probably more like 3rd or 4th?rest assured, those are already in r&d). everyone else is playing catch up.
Is there such a thing as "Android Support"? I'm not being snarky... it's an honest question.
It seems to me that if vendors slap together some hardware and then port a free operating system onto it, then they are going to have to support the whole thing.
Not saying the Dell stuff will do well (it will be a flop). But in general, people like choices... Lots of choices...
Actually you are dead wrong. Repeated studies show that people do not like "Lots of choices". When people are offered two or three items they will usually buy, any more choices than that they get overwhelmed and buy less.
Is there such a thing as "Android Support"? I'm not being snarky... it's an honest question.
It seems to me that if vendors slap together some hardware and then port a free operating system onto it, then they are going to have to support the whole thing.
Thompson
I'd agree. It's a rerun of the definition of a Windows PC. That worked last time around, I doubt the scenario will wash twice with such a powerful alternative as Apple have out there this time.
Amazing the tone of this thread. I think you guys are really afraid of some competition.
You are pissing on the thing before it even comes out. Why don't you wait until you've had a chance to play with the thing before you...what's the hip word young people use today...dis it??
Make a 7 inch pad, put a camera on it and Adobe Flash so you can watch videos in the browser and you might have something there. Get developers to write great games for it and kids will love it.
Since Apple likes to release 1st editions of their products with features missing that should be common sense, I think there is a market for copy cat products if they offer features people want. And if they make it cheaper, all the better.
It has nothing to do with being afraid of competition. Dell is not competition, when was the last time they came out with anything amazing?
Actually you are dead wrong. Repeated studies show that people do not like "Lots of choices". When people are offered two or three items they will usually buy, any more choices than that they get overwhelmed and buy less.
Totally correct. There was a lesson on this from SJ himself. Remember Apple's line up prior to SJ's return? There were so many darned Apples to choose from it was ludicrous. The master of marketing's first act was to axe the range. His other thing was nomenclature but that's another story.
Actually you are dead wrong. Repeated studies show that people do not like "Lots of choices". When people are offered two or three items they will usually buy, any more choices than that they get overwhelmed and buy less.
Too many choices can often be problematic. However, it is also true that if you ask people if they'd rather have more or less choice, typically, they will respond in favor of more. It's kind of an interesting example of what people say they want not being what actually always works well for them.
Of course, it's not like we really have free will, anyway.
The most telling thing from Dell is they never (at least that I know of) reported good sales of the Streak or anything related to it? Someone (eg. Blackintosh) please advise if you know how the Streak is doing...??? I don't see much info on it's progress/success???
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
U.S. computer maker Dell reportedly plans to take on Apple's iPad with a smaller, 7-inch device set to launch in a matter of weeks, as well as a 10-inch touchscreen device planned to debut in the next year.
As noted Wednesday by The Wall Street Journal, the president of Dell in Greater China revealed that the 7-inch tablet, shown off briefly last week by CEO Michael Dell, will launch "within the next few weeks." The device will run Google's Android mobile operating system.
Amit Midha of Dell also indicated that his company plans to launch "a whole slew" of new products in the next 6-12 months, including a 10-inch tablet closer in size to Apple's 9.7-inch iPad. Midha said his company will offer products in multiple sizes, including three and four inches, and some of them will run Microsoft Windows instead of Android.
He also revealed that Dell will provide tablets running Google's lightweight Chrome OS operating system, designed for low-cost netbooks and lightweight portable devices. Google's browser-based operating system is set to launch this fall.
In August, Dell launched the Streak, a 5-inch device that functions as a smartphone, but has been pitched by the computer maker as a "tablet." The device runs on the AT&T network in the U.S., and costs $299 with a two-year contract, or $549 without. It also runs Android 1.6, though an update to Froyo 2.2 is planned.
Device makers like Dell are clamoring to break in to the touchscreen tablet market, where Apple has made a splash with the success of its multi-touch iPad. The iPad sold more than 3 million in its first three months, and retail expansion is expected to help push the device to 21 million in 2011.
I posted an update to that comment you may now have seen and I don't necessarily disagree, I was saying the 7" in the competition maybe more about keeping the price down than the issue of user choice. Apple can easily add a 7" down the road if and when they feel there is a need / demand.
Got it. I agree the manufacturers are going with 7" because they can't compete with Apple on price for the 10". I originally thought you meant users were going for it because they wanted something cheap.
U.S. computer maker Dell reportedly plans to take on Apple's iPad with a smaller, 7-inch device set to launch in a matter of weeks, as well as a 10-inch touchscreen device planned to debut in the next year.
VAPORWARE.
This is pure nonsense until it is actually released and is out in the open. And then it will be crap anyway.
Amazing the tone of this thread. I think you guys are really afraid of some competition.
You are pissing on the thing before it even comes out. Why don't you wait until you've had a chance to play with the thing before you...what's the hip word young people use today...dis it??
Valid point. Hell a lot of folks did that with the ipad. calling it a toy, a 'giant ipod touch', a waste during the weeks before the actual release. the lack of Flash support took a huge beating, particularly before companies started making HTML5 versions of sites and producing apps.
And then folks saw it, played with it, bought it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo
I am curious when Apple will sue all of the copycats that are using multi-touch input that Apple has been granted the patent on last January 2009.
If these folks are too stupid to properly license it from Apple, yes and they deserve it. But most of them probably are not and have the paperwork giving them permission.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin
I think once more of these competitor 7" devices hit the street, you'll find a lot of people choosing them intead of an iPad, not because the OS or user experience is better. Size will become a primary factor for many people.
I disagree. Size will not be the primary factor for many people at all. Price and battery life sure with some "It has Flash" being a bonus. But not the physical size of the device.
Availability will also be a major factor. The ipad is out now. These others, well we don't have a date yet.
In any case, this is good news as Dell is going to push the price down.
Just to f*** with competitors' minds, Apple should sell iPads at cost for a year. What would that be, $47? They have enough cash on hand to subsidize the loss in income. Stock price might take a brief hit, but increased user base when everyone in the world buys an iPad would more than make up for it in the long run.
Spare me any lectures realists. I'm just having some speculative fun.
Yep I agree, sorry I didn't mean they had a problem because of 7" so much rather the entire issue of trying to compete with Apple and the 7" is obviously cheaper thus I assume part of the equation to try to compete. The pros and cons of 7" I think are what Apple weighed and they went for a size they felt fit the widest range uses it is intended for best, I agree with them. However if the iPad had been 7" I am sure we would have all loved it all the same.
yep in fact I'm hoping apple does have a 7" in the next release in ipad2, I'll pre order that in a hurry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber
Just to f*** with competitors' minds, Apple should sell iPads at cost for a year. What would that be, $47? They have enough cash on hand to subsidize the loss in income. Stock price might take a brief hit, but increased user base when everyone in the world buys an iPad would more than make up for it in the long run.
Spare me any lectures realists. I'm just having some speculative fun.
But I thought apple isn't interested in marketshare.
I posted this elsewhere, but it bears repeating - Since Apple has already been planning out the way this platform will develop - they have been buying up the screens and the other components that make up the platform - items that have been remarked upon previously as impacting the market in some cases. This produces shortages in components, driving up component cost and delaying manufacture of competing devices. So it makes no sense for competitors to try and go toe-to-toe with the form factor - they can't get enough parts to do it (setting aside all other arguments for the moment). Going after the next most logical form factor - already established by the Kindle and Nook technologies - the 7 inch, where there are plenty of screens and components.
They are still subject to the other above set-aside issues as well - no/miniscule ecosystem, an almost ready for primetime ChromeOS, an Android 3 with a cautionary note from Google on it, Win7, QNIX/BB6, or Maemo. None of these are ready tocompete with the iOS platform. All of which have some less robust touch hardware system, and all the other issues around hardware build, etc. These are out there because iPad reportedly directly impacted netbook sales. We need to see the "real" numbers to know if that was the case, but early numbers support the idea. So they are scrambling to climb on the next "netbook" race to the bottom effort. These are even cheaper than netbooks to produce, but have an even lower profit margin, thanks to Apple's agressive pricing on the iPad.
What will be the result? Many people have been around an iPad already, so they will bring that experience to the testing of these new devices. If they are anything like the early iterations of Android (for example), the UI will be questionable, and performance nothing like the iPad, either in apps, battery life or useability. And let's remember also that Apple is a moving target - what has been delivered to the masses is already old news to Apple. They are always moving forward with their development plans. The current iPad was merely a stake in the ground for the form-factor. All these other companies are doing is chasing Apple's wake.
I have to think they intend at some point soon for an HP iOS competitor to rise from WebOS and differentiate them and allow them a tighter integration between hardware and software (an idea they may have gleaned from Apple maybe? Android will become too generic and at the same time inconsistent with every manufacturer throwing something out there running it. Anything HP is making now is I assume a stop gap. Not a good selling point if true!
to do this. They shutdown the Microsoft version of the slate - you don't see anyone else doing that, except by proxy by going with Android instead of waiting on Redmond to get their version available. The Android + ChromOS is a nasty one/two punch to Msoft's efforts in the handheld space. They NEED a serious winner with Win7 mobile to recover share from Android and fend off the tablet threat of ChromeOS. I see ChromeOS as the contender to beat - they built it against the netbook economies, which translates well to the tablet build, with a decent touch interface.
HP can leverage Palm WebOS for its devices, or select from the Android, ChromeOS or Windows bins as needed. Which will fragment their install base among those choices, but still sell devices. I see them trying to emulate Apple with WebOS though. So they may in fact introduce WebOS with the Palm infrastructure in place to have an ecosystem to drive, but still offer the other OSes as also-builds.
Comments
you're correct. dell will push the price of apple's other competitor's products down. the ipad is a huge success for apple. why should they lower their price?
furthermore, dell doesn't offer the whole 'experience'. they built the thing and are perfectly happy to field calls for failing hardware, but the consumer has to go to android support for bugs, and other software problems.
while i don't think it will be a complete failure, it won't push dell much further in the market. besides, apple is already on their 2nd generation ipad (probably more like 3rd or 4th?rest assured, those are already in r&d). everyone else is playing catch up.
Is there such a thing as "Android Support"? I'm not being snarky... it's an honest question.
It seems to me that if vendors slap together some hardware and then port a free operating system onto it, then they are going to have to support the whole thing.
Thompson
Not saying the Dell stuff will do well (it will be a flop). But in general, people like choices... Lots of choices...
Actually you are dead wrong. Repeated studies show that people do not like "Lots of choices". When people are offered two or three items they will usually buy, any more choices than that they get overwhelmed and buy less.
Is there such a thing as "Android Support"? I'm not being snarky... it's an honest question.
It seems to me that if vendors slap together some hardware and then port a free operating system onto it, then they are going to have to support the whole thing.
Thompson
I'd agree. It's a rerun of the definition of a Windows PC. That worked last time around, I doubt the scenario will wash twice with such a powerful alternative as Apple have out there this time.
Amazing the tone of this thread. I think you guys are really afraid of some competition.
You are pissing on the thing before it even comes out. Why don't you wait until you've had a chance to play with the thing before you...what's the hip word young people use today...dis it??
Make a 7 inch pad, put a camera on it and Adobe Flash so you can watch videos in the browser and you might have something there. Get developers to write great games for it and kids will love it.
Since Apple likes to release 1st editions of their products with features missing that should be common sense, I think there is a market for copy cat products if they offer features people want. And if they make it cheaper, all the better.
It has nothing to do with being afraid of competition. Dell is not competition, when was the last time they came out with anything amazing?
Actually you are dead wrong. Repeated studies show that people do not like "Lots of choices". When people are offered two or three items they will usually buy, any more choices than that they get overwhelmed and buy less.
Totally correct. There was a lesson on this from SJ himself. Remember Apple's line up prior to SJ's return? There were so many darned Apples to choose from it was ludicrous. The master of marketing's first act was to axe the range. His other thing was nomenclature but that's another story.
It has nothing to do with being afraid of competition. Dell is not competition, when was the last time they came out with anything amazing?
Please add him to your ignore list then we don't have to see his trolling
Actually you are dead wrong. Repeated studies show that people do not like "Lots of choices". When people are offered two or three items they will usually buy, any more choices than that they get overwhelmed and buy less.
Too many choices can often be problematic. However, it is also true that if you ask people if they'd rather have more or less choice, typically, they will respond in favor of more. It's kind of an interesting example of what people say they want not being what actually always works well for them.
Of course, it's not like we really have free will, anyway.
He also missed MS DOS. Has he no respect for history!
I have respect for history! I remember CPM. I wrote the drivers for my first computer, an IMSAI.
Can you name a couple of apps that support 11 multi-touches... 11 mutli-touches seems like a useless spec to me.
Piano and Midi Controller apps. I needs them 10 multi-touches.
U.S. computer maker Dell reportedly plans to take on Apple's iPad with a smaller, 7-inch device set to launch in a matter of weeks, as well as a 10-inch touchscreen device planned to debut in the next year.
As noted Wednesday by The Wall Street Journal, the president of Dell in Greater China revealed that the 7-inch tablet, shown off briefly last week by CEO Michael Dell, will launch "within the next few weeks." The device will run Google's Android mobile operating system.
Amit Midha of Dell also indicated that his company plans to launch "a whole slew" of new products in the next 6-12 months, including a 10-inch tablet closer in size to Apple's 9.7-inch iPad. Midha said his company will offer products in multiple sizes, including three and four inches, and some of them will run Microsoft Windows instead of Android.
He also revealed that Dell will provide tablets running Google's lightweight Chrome OS operating system, designed for low-cost netbooks and lightweight portable devices. Google's browser-based operating system is set to launch this fall.
In August, Dell launched the Streak, a 5-inch device that functions as a smartphone, but has been pitched by the computer maker as a "tablet." The device runs on the AT&T network in the U.S., and costs $299 with a two-year contract, or $549 without. It also runs Android 1.6, though an update to Froyo 2.2 is planned.
Device makers like Dell are clamoring to break in to the touchscreen tablet market, where Apple has made a splash with the success of its multi-touch iPad. The iPad sold more than 3 million in its first three months, and retail expansion is expected to help push the device to 21 million in 2011.
Totally. The average user probably has memorized fewer than three.
Beware of confusing gestures with touch points.
I posted an update to that comment you may now have seen and I don't necessarily disagree, I was saying the 7" in the competition maybe more about keeping the price down than the issue of user choice. Apple can easily add a 7" down the road if and when they feel there is a need / demand.
Got it. I agree the manufacturers are going with 7" because they can't compete with Apple on price for the 10". I originally thought you meant users were going for it because they wanted something cheap.
U.S. computer maker Dell reportedly plans to take on Apple's iPad with a smaller, 7-inch device set to launch in a matter of weeks, as well as a 10-inch touchscreen device planned to debut in the next year.
VAPORWARE.
This is pure nonsense until it is actually released and is out in the open. And then it will be crap anyway.
Amazing the tone of this thread. I think you guys are really afraid of some competition.
You are pissing on the thing before it even comes out. Why don't you wait until you've had a chance to play with the thing before you...what's the hip word young people use today...dis it??
Valid point. Hell a lot of folks did that with the ipad. calling it a toy, a 'giant ipod touch', a waste during the weeks before the actual release. the lack of Flash support took a huge beating, particularly before companies started making HTML5 versions of sites and producing apps.
And then folks saw it, played with it, bought it.
I am curious when Apple will sue all of the copycats that are using multi-touch input that Apple has been granted the patent on last January 2009.
If these folks are too stupid to properly license it from Apple, yes and they deserve it. But most of them probably are not and have the paperwork giving them permission.
I think once more of these competitor 7" devices hit the street, you'll find a lot of people choosing them intead of an iPad, not because the OS or user experience is better. Size will become a primary factor for many people.
I disagree. Size will not be the primary factor for many people at all. Price and battery life sure with some "It has Flash" being a bonus. But not the physical size of the device.
Availability will also be a major factor. The ipad is out now. These others, well we don't have a date yet.
I have respect for history! I remember CPM. I wrote the drivers for my first computer, an IMSAI.
Ah, BASIC on an Apple II e is as far back as I go. When I wasn't playing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_Raiders
VAPORWARE.
This is pure nonsense until it is actually released and is out in the open. And then it will be crap anyway.
Just as in life, Dell would be better off releasing vapor instead of leaving a Streak.
In any case, this is good news as Dell is going to push the price down.
Just to f*** with competitors' minds, Apple should sell iPads at cost for a year. What would that be, $47? They have enough cash on hand to subsidize the loss in income. Stock price might take a brief hit, but increased user base when everyone in the world buys an iPad would more than make up for it in the long run.
Spare me any lectures realists. I'm just having some speculative fun.
Yep I agree, sorry I didn't mean they had a problem because of 7" so much rather the entire issue of trying to compete with Apple and the 7" is obviously cheaper thus I assume part of the equation to try to compete. The pros and cons of 7" I think are what Apple weighed and they went for a size they felt fit the widest range uses it is intended for best, I agree with them. However if the iPad had been 7" I am sure we would have all loved it all the same.
yep in fact I'm hoping apple does have a 7" in the next release in ipad2, I'll pre order that in a hurry.
Just to f*** with competitors' minds, Apple should sell iPads at cost for a year. What would that be, $47? They have enough cash on hand to subsidize the loss in income. Stock price might take a brief hit, but increased user base when everyone in the world buys an iPad would more than make up for it in the long run.
Spare me any lectures realists. I'm just having some speculative fun.
But I thought apple isn't interested in marketshare.
They are still subject to the other above set-aside issues as well - no/miniscule ecosystem, an almost ready for primetime ChromeOS, an Android 3 with a cautionary note from Google on it, Win7, QNIX/BB6, or Maemo. None of these are ready tocompete with the iOS platform. All of which have some less robust touch hardware system, and all the other issues around hardware build, etc. These are out there because iPad reportedly directly impacted netbook sales. We need to see the "real" numbers to know if that was the case, but early numbers support the idea. So they are scrambling to climb on the next "netbook" race to the bottom effort. These are even cheaper than netbooks to produce, but have an even lower profit margin, thanks to Apple's agressive pricing on the iPad.
What will be the result? Many people have been around an iPad already, so they will bring that experience to the testing of these new devices. If they are anything like the early iterations of Android (for example), the UI will be questionable, and performance nothing like the iPad, either in apps, battery life or useability. And let's remember also that Apple is a moving target - what has been delivered to the masses is already old news to Apple. They are always moving forward with their development plans. The current iPad was merely a stake in the ground for the form-factor. All these other companies are doing is chasing Apple's wake.
I have to think they intend at some point soon for an HP iOS competitor to rise from WebOS and differentiate them and allow them a tighter integration between hardware and software (an idea they may have gleaned from Apple maybe?
to do this. They shutdown the Microsoft version of the slate - you don't see anyone else doing that, except by proxy by going with Android instead of waiting on Redmond to get their version available. The Android + ChromOS is a nasty one/two punch to Msoft's efforts in the handheld space. They NEED a serious winner with Win7 mobile to recover share from Android and fend off the tablet threat of ChromeOS. I see ChromeOS as the contender to beat - they built it against the netbook economies, which translates well to the tablet build, with a decent touch interface.
HP can leverage Palm WebOS for its devices, or select from the Android, ChromeOS or Windows bins as needed. Which will fragment their install base among those choices, but still sell devices. I see them trying to emulate Apple with WebOS though. So they may in fact introduce WebOS with the Palm infrastructure in place to have an ecosystem to drive, but still offer the other OSes as also-builds.