I can't make out from the article if the rumor suggests a Windows Mobile 7 tablet or a Windows Tablet. The latter is likely to be a non-starter, the former seems to be a bit premature, in that MS has been struggling just to get their phone OS to market. I don't think there's been time since the breakout success of the iPad to optimize WinMo 7 for a tablet, and prior to the iPad's breakout success there's nothing to suggest that MS even thought that was worth doing.
It?s discussing both. We know MS has Win Phone 7 in the works and will demo it next week. We know Balmer was on stage in January for CES with an HP tablet running Windows 7. The prototype video that was floating around last week is ambiguous as to MS and HP still pursuing that device or if it?s just an old prototype that was ditched last year that someone got ahold of. After the iPad coming out and showing everyone how it?s done and HP buying WebOS I have to think that it?s the latter. Didn?t HP say they scraped the Windows 7 tablet idea or am I just assuming that?
Quote:
Doesn't breaking compatibility with prior iterations of WinMo kind of put a crimp in that, though? I realize that there are development tools across devices, but WinMo 7 is pretty new to be easily slotting into the installed ecosystem, isn't it? (Asking, don't know).
I?m not sure how much compatibility breaking there is when there numbers are dropping. They may have a path for backwards compatibility, but sometime you have to start over if you want to survive. It might be in their best interest to have an entirely new ecosystem that is WP7 focused, completely shunning WM6 and earlier. It?s not like WM6 is even designed for the HW that will come on WP7 devices, namely a multi-touchscreen I/O so I assume they will all but drop WM6 except for legacy support and basic security patches.
PS: Speaking of tablets, I haven?t heard much from Notion Ink since they made a huge fuss at the beginning of the year, but it looks like they are closer than many other ?me to? products saying how they are better than the iPad.
The report noted that Ballmer declined to say whether the devices would be on sale before Christmas, or who will make the hardware.
They can try to FUD their way into stalling the market all they want, but I doubt even a shipping product would put much of a dent in the coming iPad frenzy this Christmas.
More to your point. Microsoft has to do this well and aggressively. They have to come out swinging, and Android is their first target. Apple is on there, well because Ballmer hates Apple. But look at the lawsuits, and the erosion caused by Android. Redmond will force licensing on all the handset makers via lawsuit, and the Android OS will no longer be "free" to the handset makers. They will work out incentivised deal for the handset makers to use WinP7 over Android, and then perhaps go after RIM. Why RIM? Well RIM has established itself in the enterprise space - which is where the Microsoft cash cattle thrive. With WinP7 phones able to direct access Exchange services, they will seek to erode RIM's BES installed base.
That gave me an image of Steve Ballmer staggering around blindfolded in a room full of hassocks, swinging a 50 pound sledgehammer and trying to smash a piñata 20 feet above his head.
So Thurrott and now Gruber are positive on WP7. Intriguing.
(Not being sarcastic here, I know it almost sounds like I am)
It is interesting, but I have said for awhile that MS has a compelling product here for Windows users, and that a blind dismissal of WP7 because it is a MS product might be a mistake. MS has taken a page from Apple and put together a consistent ecosystem and new UI (which on first glance looks interesting), which might attract a fair number of users, largely at the expense of Android I would think.
MS seems to be turning around a bit. Windows 7 is solid, Bing is now the 2nd largest search engine, Office 2010 is doing well, and I have been running the Mac Beta version of Office and it is really good.
It is interesting, but I have said for awhile that MS has a compelling product here for Windows users, and that a blind dismissal of WP7 because it is a MS product might be a mistake. MS has taken a page from Apple and put together a consistent ecosystem and new UI (which on first glance looks interesting), which might attract a fair number of users, largely at the expense of Android I would think.
MS seems to be turning around a bit. Windows 7 is solid, Bing is now the 2nd largest search engine, Office 2010 is doing well, and I have been running the Mac Beta version of Office and it is really good.
Interesting times.
It is interesting that Microsoft have gone for the mid-ground in the smartphone stakes:-
Specification of hardware minimum requirements - [unlike Android]
It is interesting, but I have said for awhile that MS has a compelling product here for Windows users, and that a blind dismissal of WP7 because it is a MS product might be a mistake. MS has taken a page from Apple and put together a consistent ecosystem and new UI (which on first glance looks interesting), which might attract a fair number of users, largely at the expense of Android I would think.
MS seems to be turning around a bit. Windows 7 is solid, Bing is now the 2nd largest search engine, Office 2010 is doing well, and I have been running the Mac Beta version of Office and it is really good.
Interesting times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaWaBwee
It is interesting that Microsoft have gone for the mid-ground in the smartphone stakes:-
Specification of hardware minimum requirements - [unlike Android]
I think that one of the things that makes WP7 viable is it is a fresh start with no legacy compatibility issue to bloat and bog the system down.
.
I agree 100%, but the fact that they did start from scratch is indicative of the fact that his may be a "new" MS that is starting to do the right things.
If so, people should be a bit concerned, as MS has a lot of smart people who have been mismanaged in the past.
I'm glad to read on this site that other longtime posters who are pejoratively deemed "Apple fanboys" by the Untouchables see the potential value in Win Phone 7 and notice MS is taking a new approach, for a change.
If MSFT comes out with a tablet using WP7 (or WM7, or whatever it's called), before they come out with a Tablet with Windows 7
and
HP comes out with a tablet (as I believe they are contracted to do) running Windows 7, before they come out with a tablet with WebOS.
On the GoogleTV thread, someone made the point that when OS X and iOS get true resolution independence, the new AppleTV will offer a better web experience than GoogleTV as text, etc. will scale much better for a large HDTV screen.
I think that web sites and browsers will continue to be refined to support phone and tablet formats.
In Apple's and Microsoft's case they will, likely evolve the desktop OS, and desktop apps to be more aware of, and compatible with mobile formats-- so it is easier to manipulate a desktop and desktop apps with VNC or BackToMyMac from a mobile device.
If MSFT comes out with a tablet using WP7 (or WM7, or whatever it's called), before they come out with a Tablet with Windows 7
and
HP comes out with a tablet (as I believe they are contracted to do) running Windows 7, before they come out with a tablet with WebOS.
On the GoogleTV thread, someone made the point that when OS X and iOS get true resolution independence, the new AppleTV will offer a better web experience than GoogleTV as text, etc. will scale much better for a large HDTV screen.
I think that web sites and browsers will continue to be refined to support phone and tablet formats.
In Apple's and Microsoft's case they will, likely evolve the desktop OS, and desktop apps to be more aware of, and compatible with mobile formats-- so it is easier to manipulate a desktop and desktop apps with VNC or BackToMyMac from a mobile device.
Maybe, that's the next big challenge!
.
This just gets more and more interesting. Noah Kravitz from Phonedog says that WP7 UI makes the iPhone UI look like a dinosaur.
It pains me to say it but the tiles UI is more appealing than iOS.
And it would be even sweeter on a tablet. Why in God's name they persist in sticking Window 7 on tablets when they have this just dumbfounds me. It serves as a good reason for MS to look for a new CEO.
That isn't exactly an unfair assessment either, depending on what areas of the UI you are referring to. Apple still has a major leg up in some areas despite the UI still being mostly the same since the 2007 intro, but I'm loving this new MS.
One of my biggest concerns for WP7, and something MS has never had a great grasp of or focus on is power efficiency. They might best Android, which inherently had a tougher time of this do to the OS distribution model, and should best WinMo for doing the same tasks, but beating Apple hear is a pretty tall order. Since they are bing particular with the HW options they'll license for this will be much easier than they had with WinMo.
That isn't exactly an unfair assessment either, depending on what areas of the UI you are referring to. Apple still has a major leg up in some areas despite the UI still being mostly the same since the 2007 intro, but I'm loving this new MS.
One of my biggest concerns for WP7, and something MS has never had a great grasp of or focus on is power efficiency. They might best Android, which inherently had a tougher time of this do to the OS distribution model, and should best WinMo for doing the same tasks, but beating Apple hear is a pretty tall order. Since they are bing particular with the HW options they'll license for this will be much easier than they had with WinMo.
We shall see how it goes. My wife wants one (ditching a BB 9700), so we will probably get her one when they are released in the states.
As to power. I have a iPhone 3G running iOS 4. The update improved the speed issue, so it is no longer a turtle on benzos, but the battery life stinks.
It pains me to say it but the tiles UI is more appealing than iOS.
And it would be even sweeter on a tablet. Why in God's name they persist in sticking Window 7 on tablets when they have this just dumbfounds me. It serves as a good reason for MS to look for a new CEO.
I do not think MS is sticking it on the tablets, but the HW vendors are. Ballmer has always said that the OS for Tablets is W7 embedded, which I am not familiar with. He also said it is being tweaked.
I think that HP and all the rest just want a tablet out for Christmas. OTOH, an OS that could run a the full Office Suite would be nice - that is why I have not picked up an iPad yet - at the current time the software will not do what I need it to do (e.g., Endnote support).
Looking an the demo of the WP7 phone there were several nice things, and some that, well, I question.
--I like the lock screen with all the current and timely info in one place.
-- the titles that don't quite fit on the screen... not so much. I understand it's cool from an artsy-fartsy standpoint, but it grabs too much precious screen real estate.
-- I like the big tiles... I think. The color was Fugly (but probably user setting).
-- I wonder what the battery cost is, of continuously updating several tiles backgrounds
-- I am not sure where the dividing line is between tiled apps (key system-provided apps) and all other apps... it appeared that all other apps were in a single scrollable list below all the tiles
-- the iPhone UI isn't as eye-catching because I am used to it... that doesn't necessarily make it passé, rather just comfortable.
-- I don't particularly like how iOS handles folders, but it's better than nothing
-- We have hundreds of apps on our iPhones and iPads and neither the multiple screen or folder implementation does the job
-- I don't know how WP7, or Android addresses this problem
-- what about printing and exchanging files with your computer or other mobile devices.
-- It seemed odd that, this being a MS demo, at a MS booth, the device didn't have any music, video, games or apps available
-- What I saw looked solid and responsive with good attention to detail... That is impressive
I do not think MS is sticking it on the tablets, but the HW vendors are. Ballmer has always said that the OS for Tablets is W7 embedded, which I am not familiar with. He also said it is being tweaked.
I think that HP and all the rest just want a tablet out for Christmas. OTOH, an OS that could run a the full Office Suite would be nice - that is why I have not picked up an iPad yet - at the current time the software will not do what I need it to do (e.g., Endnote support).
Re: EndNote. Is this something you would really run on a Tablet with limited HDD storage. Rather, wouldn't you run EndNote in the Cloud or on your home or business computer -- then access the results from your tablet to add to a document?
Comments
I can't make out from the article if the rumor suggests a Windows Mobile 7 tablet or a Windows Tablet. The latter is likely to be a non-starter, the former seems to be a bit premature, in that MS has been struggling just to get their phone OS to market. I don't think there's been time since the breakout success of the iPad to optimize WinMo 7 for a tablet, and prior to the iPad's breakout success there's nothing to suggest that MS even thought that was worth doing.
It?s discussing both. We know MS has Win Phone 7 in the works and will demo it next week. We know Balmer was on stage in January for CES with an HP tablet running Windows 7. The prototype video that was floating around last week is ambiguous as to MS and HP still pursuing that device or if it?s just an old prototype that was ditched last year that someone got ahold of. After the iPad coming out and showing everyone how it?s done and HP buying WebOS I have to think that it?s the latter. Didn?t HP say they scraped the Windows 7 tablet idea or am I just assuming that?
Doesn't breaking compatibility with prior iterations of WinMo kind of put a crimp in that, though? I realize that there are development tools across devices, but WinMo 7 is pretty new to be easily slotting into the installed ecosystem, isn't it? (Asking, don't know).
I?m not sure how much compatibility breaking there is when there numbers are dropping. They may have a path for backwards compatibility, but sometime you have to start over if you want to survive. It might be in their best interest to have an entirely new ecosystem that is WP7 focused, completely shunning WM6 and earlier. It?s not like WM6 is even designed for the HW that will come on WP7 devices, namely a multi-touchscreen I/O so I assume they will all but drop WM6 except for legacy support and basic security patches.
PS: Speaking of tablets, I haven?t heard much from Notion Ink since they made a huge fuss at the beginning of the year, but it looks like they are closer than many other ?me to? products saying how they are better than the iPad.
That tablet had some pretty neat concepts.
I'm not sure I understand everything I saw.
It was rough in spots but far more believable than what RIM showed in their PlayBook announcement.
But, at a manufacturing target of 100,000 per month I don't see how they can make their nut-- likely, Apple rejects more than that per month.
I don't see that as a large enough scale to be able purchase parts or schedule production runs that would be necessary to compete with the iPad.
.
"Control-alt-delete" key! This has to be a joke!
could be nicer than holding down power and home keys until you get the power off slider
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...-7-2010-10.DTL
just food for thought for those saying that WP7 stinks.
The report noted that Ballmer declined to say whether the devices would be on sale before Christmas, or who will make the hardware.
They can try to FUD their way into stalling the market all they want, but I doubt even a shipping product would put much of a dent in the coming iPad frenzy this Christmas.
More to your point. Microsoft has to do this well and aggressively. They have to come out swinging, and Android is their first target. Apple is on there, well because Ballmer hates Apple. But look at the lawsuits, and the erosion caused by Android. Redmond will force licensing on all the handset makers via lawsuit, and the Android OS will no longer be "free" to the handset makers. They will work out incentivised deal for the handset makers to use WinP7 over Android, and then perhaps go after RIM. Why RIM? Well RIM has established itself in the enterprise space - which is where the Microsoft cash cattle thrive. With WinP7 phones able to direct access Exchange services, they will seek to erode RIM's BES installed base.
That gave me an image of Steve Ballmer staggering around blindfolded in a room full of hassocks, swinging a 50 pound sledgehammer and trying to smash a piñata 20 feet above his head.
An interesting little tidbit, but it seems as if John Gruber actually likes WP7, and sees it as a credible competitor.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...-7-2010-10.DTL
just food for thought for those saying that WP7 stinks.
So Thurrott and now Gruber are positive on WP7. Intriguing.
(Not being sarcastic here, I know it almost sounds like I am)
So Thurrott and now Gruber are positive on WP7. Intriguing.
(Not being sarcastic here, I know it almost sounds like I am)
It is interesting, but I have said for awhile that MS has a compelling product here for Windows users, and that a blind dismissal of WP7 because it is a MS product might be a mistake. MS has taken a page from Apple and put together a consistent ecosystem and new UI (which on first glance looks interesting), which might attract a fair number of users, largely at the expense of Android I would think.
MS seems to be turning around a bit. Windows 7 is solid, Bing is now the 2nd largest search engine, Office 2010 is doing well, and I have been running the Mac Beta version of Office and it is really good.
Interesting times.
It is interesting, but I have said for awhile that MS has a compelling product here for Windows users, and that a blind dismissal of WP7 because it is a MS product might be a mistake. MS has taken a page from Apple and put together a consistent ecosystem and new UI (which on first glance looks interesting), which might attract a fair number of users, largely at the expense of Android I would think.
MS seems to be turning around a bit. Windows 7 is solid, Bing is now the 2nd largest search engine, Office 2010 is doing well, and I have been running the Mac Beta version of Office and it is really good.
Interesting times.
It is interesting that Microsoft have gone for the mid-ground in the smartphone stakes:-
Specification of hardware minimum requirements - [unlike Android]
A unified OS (no modification) - [Like Apple]
Synchronised updates - [unlike Android]
Multiple hardware/handset/manufacturer choice - [Unlike Apple]
Time will tell whether this will pay off, but I agree with you that Microsoft are currently on a roll.
BTW, hate that HP W7 slate thing (if it is genuine), in my opinion, porting over WP7 (their new phone OS) is a better move.
It is interesting, but I have said for awhile that MS has a compelling product here for Windows users, and that a blind dismissal of WP7 because it is a MS product might be a mistake. MS has taken a page from Apple and put together a consistent ecosystem and new UI (which on first glance looks interesting), which might attract a fair number of users, largely at the expense of Android I would think.
MS seems to be turning around a bit. Windows 7 is solid, Bing is now the 2nd largest search engine, Office 2010 is doing well, and I have been running the Mac Beta version of Office and it is really good.
Interesting times.
It is interesting that Microsoft have gone for the mid-ground in the smartphone stakes:-
Specification of hardware minimum requirements - [unlike Android]
A unified OS (no modification) - [Like Apple]
Synchronised updates - [unlike Android]
Multiple hardware/handset/manufacturer choice - [Unlike Apple]
Time will tell whether this will pay off, but I agree with you that Microsoft are currently on a roll.
BTW, hate that HP W7 slate thing (if it is genuine), in my opinion, porting over WP7 (their new phone OS) is a better move.
I think that one of the things that makes WP7 viable is it is a fresh start with no legacy compatibility issue to bloat and bog the system down.
.
I think that one of the things that makes WP7 viable is it is a fresh start with no legacy compatibility issue to bloat and bog the system down.
.
I agree 100%, but the fact that they did start from scratch is indicative of the fact that his may be a "new" MS that is starting to do the right things.
If so, people should be a bit concerned, as MS has a lot of smart people who have been mismanaged in the past.
If MSFT comes out with a tablet using WP7 (or WM7, or whatever it's called), before they come out with a Tablet with Windows 7
and
HP comes out with a tablet (as I believe they are contracted to do) running Windows 7, before they come out with a tablet with WebOS.
On the GoogleTV thread, someone made the point that when OS X and iOS get true resolution independence, the new AppleTV will offer a better web experience than GoogleTV as text, etc. will scale much better for a large HDTV screen.
I think that web sites and browsers will continue to be refined to support phone and tablet formats.
In Apple's and Microsoft's case they will, likely evolve the desktop OS, and desktop apps to be more aware of, and compatible with mobile formats-- so it is easier to manipulate a desktop and desktop apps with VNC or BackToMyMac from a mobile device.
Maybe, that's the next big challenge!
.
.
If MSFT comes out with a tablet using WP7 (or WM7, or whatever it's called), before they come out with a Tablet with Windows 7
and
HP comes out with a tablet (as I believe they are contracted to do) running Windows 7, before they come out with a tablet with WebOS.
On the GoogleTV thread, someone made the point that when OS X and iOS get true resolution independence, the new AppleTV will offer a better web experience than GoogleTV as text, etc. will scale much better for a large HDTV screen.
I think that web sites and browsers will continue to be refined to support phone and tablet formats.
In Apple's and Microsoft's case they will, likely evolve the desktop OS, and desktop apps to be more aware of, and compatible with mobile formats-- so it is easier to manipulate a desktop and desktop apps with VNC or BackToMyMac from a mobile device.
Maybe, that's the next big challenge!
.
This just gets more and more interesting. Noah Kravitz from Phonedog says that WP7 UI makes the iPhone UI look like a dinosaur.
http://www.gottabemobile.com/2010/10...ke-a-dinosaur/
this could be an interesting next few months.
This just gets more and more interesting. Noah Kravitz from Phonedog says that WP7 UI makes the iPhone UI look like a dinosaur.
http://www.gottabemobile.com/2010/10...ke-a-dinosaur/
this could be an interesting next few months.
It pains me to say it but the tiles UI is more appealing than iOS.
And it would be even sweeter on a tablet. Why in God's name they persist in sticking Window 7 on tablets when they have this just dumbfounds me. It serves as a good reason for MS to look for a new CEO.
This just gets more and more interesting. Noah Kravitz from Phonedog says that WP7 UI makes the iPhone UI look like a dinosaur.
http://www.gottabemobile.com/2010/10...ke-a-dinosaur/
this could be an interesting next few months.
That isn't exactly an unfair assessment either, depending on what areas of the UI you are referring to. Apple still has a major leg up in some areas despite the UI still being mostly the same since the 2007 intro, but I'm loving this new MS.
One of my biggest concerns for WP7, and something MS has never had a great grasp of or focus on is power efficiency. They might best Android, which inherently had a tougher time of this do to the OS distribution model, and should best WinMo for doing the same tasks, but beating Apple hear is a pretty tall order. Since they are bing particular with the HW options they'll license for this will be much easier than they had with WinMo.
That isn't exactly an unfair assessment either, depending on what areas of the UI you are referring to. Apple still has a major leg up in some areas despite the UI still being mostly the same since the 2007 intro, but I'm loving this new MS.
One of my biggest concerns for WP7, and something MS has never had a great grasp of or focus on is power efficiency. They might best Android, which inherently had a tougher time of this do to the OS distribution model, and should best WinMo for doing the same tasks, but beating Apple hear is a pretty tall order. Since they are bing particular with the HW options they'll license for this will be much easier than they had with WinMo.
We shall see how it goes. My wife wants one (ditching a BB 9700), so we will probably get her one when they are released in the states.
As to power. I have a iPhone 3G running iOS 4. The update improved the speed issue, so it is no longer a turtle on benzos, but the battery life stinks.
It pains me to say it but the tiles UI is more appealing than iOS.
And it would be even sweeter on a tablet. Why in God's name they persist in sticking Window 7 on tablets when they have this just dumbfounds me. It serves as a good reason for MS to look for a new CEO.
I do not think MS is sticking it on the tablets, but the HW vendors are. Ballmer has always said that the OS for Tablets is W7 embedded, which I am not familiar with. He also said it is being tweaked.
I think that HP and all the rest just want a tablet out for Christmas. OTOH, an OS that could run a the full Office Suite would be nice - that is why I have not picked up an iPad yet - at the current time the software will not do what I need it to do (e.g., Endnote support).
--I like the lock screen with all the current and timely info in one place.
-- the titles that don't quite fit on the screen... not so much. I understand it's cool from an artsy-fartsy standpoint, but it grabs too much precious screen real estate.
-- I like the big tiles... I think. The color was Fugly (but probably user setting).
-- I wonder what the battery cost is, of continuously updating several tiles backgrounds
-- I am not sure where the dividing line is between tiled apps (key system-provided apps) and all other apps... it appeared that all other apps were in a single scrollable list below all the tiles
-- the iPhone UI isn't as eye-catching because I am used to it... that doesn't necessarily make it passé, rather just comfortable.
-- I don't particularly like how iOS handles folders, but it's better than nothing
-- We have hundreds of apps on our iPhones and iPads and neither the multiple screen or folder implementation does the job
-- I don't know how WP7, or Android addresses this problem
-- what about printing and exchanging files with your computer or other mobile devices.
-- It seemed odd that, this being a MS demo, at a MS booth, the device didn't have any music, video, games or apps available
-- What I saw looked solid and responsive with good attention to detail... That is impressive
.
I do not think MS is sticking it on the tablets, but the HW vendors are. Ballmer has always said that the OS for Tablets is W7 embedded, which I am not familiar with. He also said it is being tweaked.
I think that HP and all the rest just want a tablet out for Christmas. OTOH, an OS that could run a the full Office Suite would be nice - that is why I have not picked up an iPad yet - at the current time the software will not do what I need it to do (e.g., Endnote support).
Re: EndNote. Is this something you would really run on a Tablet with limited HDD storage. Rather, wouldn't you run EndNote in the Cloud or on your home or business computer -- then access the results from your tablet to add to a document?
.