Microsoft unveils plans for first nine Windows Phone 7 handsets

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  • Reply 101 of 333
    macnycmacnyc Posts: 342member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    I disagree.



    As much as I hate Microsoft and have the lowest opinion of their design chops, these look like credible competitors to me. They are striking right at Apple's achilles heel with these things and I would expect that unless the actual user experience on the hardware is shite (and early reviews are that they are actually pretty slick BTW), that they will gain a lot of traction. Apple is focussed like a laser on the consumer as a sort of target to sell media to. Their offerings in terms of productivity however, are minimal, beta-esque and fraught with usability problems. This is the main weakness of the iOS platform IMO and Microsoft is going for the jugular here.




    These are aimed more at Android than at the iPhone. I have read plenty of negative reviews on the user experience so I'm not so sure that will give them an advantage.



    I'm not sure what productivity apps you are referring to but that isn't my experience and what makes you think that the Microsoft experience is going to be any better than what we have learned to expect from Microsoft?
  • Reply 102 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post


    The idea of the tile is that all of a person's information is aggregated in one place and displayed. So, the people tile displays any email that a person sent you, any texts, any twitter postings, any updates to their facebook page is all in the people hub in one spot.



    If I were to do that on my iPhone, I would have to open (and switch between) multiple applications to get the same information.



    That is true... on the iPhone!



    But, what I wonder about is how expensive (battery) is all the push notifications (or polling) and background processing to keep the content updated.



    If it doesn't keep the content updated (only updates when the "start" button is pressed) -- hell I or any Android or iOS developer can write an aggregator app that does the same thing as a Active Tile.



    .
  • Reply 103 of 333
    sambansamban Posts: 171member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bullhead View Post


    This is a Microsoft OS we are talking about...so 2GHz with 2GB of RAM is going to be minimum to have a usable phone, and you really need more once you add anti-virus, firewalls, intrusion detection, etc....



    1 Ghz + 1GB is for showing the tiles & rest 1Ghz to run the app for which you bought the phone. The big question is can it make a phone call & access data.
  • Reply 104 of 333
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,361member
    I gotta admit Windows Phone 7 looks great. Booth screens and videos. If it works as smooth as it looks I think it'll take a large cut of the cake.
  • Reply 105 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post


    huh? you can program c and c++ in .net

    you don't understand me thinks.



    Of course I know what you mean. The reality is developers in Windows platform is much more junior than those in Java/GNU C platforms. If you don't understand the difference between Microsoft C/C++ platform and standard POSIX C/C++ platform, I can't explain more to you.
  • Reply 106 of 333
    rbonnerrbonner Posts: 635member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vexorg View Post


    LOL. got me there. That is something of an exception, though. They normally lick their wounds and try harder until they get it.



    I agree as well, overall they do stick with it, Windows is a a great example, I really like 7 when I have to use it. They just seem to have issues when it comes to small portable electronics.
  • Reply 107 of 333
    wnursewnurse Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post


    The target is not Apple, but BB and Android. MS took at page from Apple, and has created an complete ecosystem for Windows users. They have Office, Exchange, Games (Xbox Live integration) and Music and Movies (Zune Marketplace) and the app store is opening. One has to wonder why Apple all of a sudden created the Game Center and Social Network of iTunes, both of which MS has had for quite awhile.





    Interesting how everyone knows Microsoft target. Target not Apple?.. yeah, if you believe that, i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you. Has Microsoft ever met a company it did not want to crush? Microsoft is competing against all cell phone makers, whether they are named apple or not.
  • Reply 108 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by popeyelin View Post


    Of course I know what you mean. The reality is developers in Windows platform is much more junior than those in Java/GNU C platforms. If you don't understand the difference between Microsoft C/C++ platform and standard POSIX C/C++ platform, I can't explain more to you.



    please don't. thanks.
  • Reply 109 of 333
    rbonnerrbonner Posts: 635member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    More choices are bad in general, or bad when it is phones, or CE in general, or what?



    My initial post was that with CE in general, comparing it to the driver experience with Windows. In thinking about it, it seems that phones will pretty much have a unique and fairly static feature set, so they might be OK.



    It was also a bit rash, in that CE has never needed drivers. Have had coffee since then.



    But, and a big but, the same model with Android has produced a complex eco system for updates. I have a test HTC magic that is stuck on an older version of the OS because the vendor will not update to the latest code.



    So, I guess it really depends on how Microsoft handles it. If they restrict modifications to the OS by the vendor, I would think that they would be OK.



    While Apple does restrict choice quite a bit with a single basic form factor (I don't count color or RAM as choice in this case), I think they will benefit in the long run with reduced update and maint cost.
  • Reply 110 of 333
    -ag--ag- Posts: 123member
    I dont know if its already been said but ...

    Quote:

    Windows Phone 7, which shouldn't be confused with Windows 7 for the PC



    That is the key to the whole sales side of this phone.



    Morons will buy it thinking it will be as good and mature as their Windows 7 home PC.



    In reality they should be forced to call it Windows Phone 7 v1.0 or something so people know that its not Vista/7.



    Hell iOS and Android had too, so why should MS be special?
  • Reply 111 of 333
    I give them seven weeks



    Ok, puns aside, I don't really think that this is going to be a big threat to Apple, I don't own an iPhone (unfortunately), I happen to have an HTC Tattoo...but I have one because Android seemed nice to me and caught my attention...and...weeelll an iPhone in Portugal is too expensive (most expensive iPhone 4 in the World).



    Anyways this doesn't catch my attention one bit and I don't really see this with the potential to gain much sales...the menus and color schemes just seem awful to me...



    On a side note...after 100 comments was I the only guy who noticed that in the second picture the LG (Quantum) appears twice, instead of the Samsung Focus?
  • Reply 112 of 333
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    The difference is that ios devices have a few hundred thousand apps available. A small difference really...



    The app issue is overstated. Apple app store did not open with 200k apps and neither did android, which is doing well. Second, many I those apps are games which is handled by xbox live. Third, as Apple tacitly admitted with it's recent no more fart apps statement, many of those apps are crap. Lastly, most surveys indicate most users do not use their apps after 2 weeks. Lastly, the windows app store will open with the major apps (eg netflix, flixster, etc).
  • Reply 113 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post


    The idea of the tile is that all of a person's information is aggregated in one place and displayed. So, the people tile displays any email that a person sent you, any texts, any twitter postings, any updates to their facebook page is all in the people hub in one spot.



    If I were to do that on my iPhone, I would have to open (and switch between) multiple applications to get the same information.





    I like the concept of the Active Tile!



    For it to be useful, however, the user must have a lot of external things going on that affect him-- or there would be little "activity".



    There are several ways it could be implemented:



    1) Push notifications

    2) Periodic polling

    3) a combination of the above



    None of this is too expensive (battery) because the phone, in reality, is constantly mini-polling for calls, etc.



    So, when notifications arrive (however, they arrive) they can be saved and a badge updated-- all but the simplest notifications, contain a token instead of the actual content.



    At some point, the notifications are resolved by:

    -- sending the token to the server

    -- downloading the content associated with that token

    -- invoking the app (or a mega-app) that processes that content (mail, pictures, people tracking, etc.).



    This is the critical part -- resolving the notifications..



    If it is done in the background whenever a notification arrives -- it can drain the battery.



    If it is done when the user presses the start key (all outstanding notifications resolved) -- there, likely, will be a noticeable delay.





    If neither is a problem for the user -- likely, the user doesn't have enough external "activity" to benefit from active tiles,





    Surely, the OS can use some intelligence, realize that tokens are stacking up, resolve them and then go back to sleep.



    Within the iOS SDK (and I suspect Android SDK), the developer can write a mega-app-- an "Active Tile" if you will, that could handle "resolving the tokens".





    Apple or Google, certainly, could do it on a system-wide basis.





    The question is the battery tradeoff worth the always updated status?



    .
  • Reply 114 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    I disagree.



    As much as I hate Microsoft and have the lowest opinion of their design chops, these look like credible competitors to me. They are striking right at Apple's achilles heel with these things and I would expect that unless the actual user experience on the hardware is shite (and early reviews are that they are actually pretty slick BTW), that they will gain a lot of traction... This is the main weakness of the iOS platform IMO and Microsoft is going for the jugular here.



    The whole "tiles" metaphor seems junky and clunky to me, but people will put up a lot to get the integration and because a lot of the views Microsoft is giving on your data with these phones is actually useful as opposed to the iOS way of doing things. Business users, and anyone who actually does work on their phone will gravitate towards these kinds of devices until Apple gets their finger out and decides to make phones or tablets for that part of the market (if they ever do).



    Actually, I think I would disagree with you here. What Microsoft is doing (and certainly MUST do) with this release is two fold. Differentiate from the Apple GUI benchmark (where Android went, instead of the BB model GUI). And play to their "strengths".



    So first, differentiate. With Android being the primary eroder of the WinPhone market on the usual handsets and all the carriers - they need to address that. This does it rather successfully - it is different than the Android platform GUI which is necessary - but still on familiar hardware and all the carriers. You KNOW they will partner with the handset makers to BOGO or market the crap out of these, and incentivize downscaling Android - whether by lawsuit or by licensing. They will incentivize the carriers in the usual manner.



    Second, playing to their strengths. While you may not think of Zune as anyone's idea of a strength - XBox arguably is. And if you can combine services delivery between the two systems - so much the better. Whether they have the right approach remains to be seen. XBox requires a fair amount of overhead, so that is not a given. Office - that's a given. Do they have a decent touch interface for the platform - not from what I've seen so far - but that can change. The tiles thing is a meh in my book, too much fishing for where things are - especially as my needs change as i move from work mode to play mode.



    I don't see the iPhone productivity/usability thing as an Achilles heel issue. In fact the jugular as I mentioned previously is on the Android platform or the Blackberry/RIM platform. Apple has never been seen as a threat from the corporate side to Redmond, and isn't now. No, these are targeting RIM and Google - RIM for its intrusion into corporate delivery systems - Microsoft want's you off those BES and solely on Exchange - with a native Exchange client on the WP7 device. And they want you on a handset running WP7, not Android - or at the very least running on a version of Android licensed by Microsoft. The number of business users from the corporate side who would actually do anything other than review docs on a smartphone is very small, and is not playing to the larger consumer market. Now it may well be a part of the market Microsoft wants nailed down in their OS, but it's not a larger market threat.



    FWTW, I don't "hate" Microsoft. I carry a number of their certs as a professional, but I don't think they actually "get it" in the same way Apple gets it from a consumer perspective. And again, it LOOKS like they are not aiming ahead of the target with this - but I will be just as happy to be proven wrong on this.
  • Reply 115 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dgMac View Post


    Something that I've seen barely mentioned in the marketing (or in this forum), but crucial to the potential success or failure of Windows Phone 7, is their SDK and developer base.



    The SDK is based on Silverlight, which is essentially a graphic interpreter running on top of Microsoft's .NET development framework. Silverlight has been through 4 releases on the browser and is a mature platform. .NET (and its primary implementation language, C#) has been around for 10 years and has a massive developer base. The primary IDE for .NET development, Visual Studio, is now in its 5th release (Visual Studio 2010).



    Why does this matter to the success of Windows Phone 7? Because this past spring, Microsoft reached out to its developer base with the Windows Phone 7 SDK and the tools to develop on this platform. The developer base has been highly energized and able to develop apps with a familiar IDE and language right out of the box.



    Is this enough to guarantee the success of Windows Phone 7? No. But it puts it at least on par with the Android development community (which uses Java) for having a large existing developer base, knowledgeable in the tools and the language. There will be no shortage of available apps on Windows Phone 7 release.



    Very good points.



    .
  • Reply 116 of 333
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rbonner View Post


    Lots of different hardware, yeah, no way this can fail. How long will it be until we hear the first "It's the drivers fault, or no driver available" comments.



    Sprint support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a Windows Mobile OS problem. You will need to contact Microsoft customer support...



    Microsoft support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a hardware problem. You will need to contact HTC customer support...



    HTC support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a network problem. You will need to contact Sprint customer support...

  • Reply 117 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    My understanding is that only M$-approved software can be installed. If so, I have no interest in WP7 at all.



    If that's not true, I'll have to see what kind of ecosystem is available for the ATT offerings. But I doubt that I'd ever get one.



    The arrangements for installing software on WP7 are similar to those of Apple. Basically, Microsoft has set up an marketplace for apps and any app that is offered to users in that marketplace have to be approved by Microsoft. It's the same setup that the App Store (Apple) has.



    From what it sounds like, I don't think there's any particular AT&T exclusivity here. It's just that Microsoft designed that manufacturers are working with only AT&T for now with other versions coming soon.



    I'm an iPhone user, and I should tell you that the WP7 interface blew me away. It looks really good.
  • Reply 118 of 333
    kent909kent909 Posts: 731member
    "Start screen with something called Live Tiles for highlighting a user's personal content. "



    So what is the difference between a Tile and an Icon. My iPhone email Icon shows how many unread emails I have, my Calendar shows how many new appointments I have? I don't get how this is any different.
  • Reply 119 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by popeyelin View Post


    Of course I know what you mean. The reality is developers in Windows platform is much more junior than those in Java/GNU C platforms. If you don't understand the difference between Microsoft C/C++ platform and standard POSIX C/C++ platform, I can't explain more to you.



    Better quit now. With every post it becomes obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
  • Reply 120 of 333
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samban View Post


    Air Sharing Pro is very powerful can be used to transfer files between phone & any where. You can even do ssh login and browse code (if you are into S/W development). But, there is no way now available to transfer content from one app to another but sure there it will be and when it is it will be the best & most simplest way.



    Yes, but these are third party add-ons and at least one requires a jailbreak. I was talking about the basic functionality of the device as envisioned by the designers (Apple). Moving files around between iOS devices or between iOS devices and desktops is basically non-functional at this point. The kludge they use in iTunes to force files onto the device is counter-intutitve at best, buggy, and has different implementations depending on what app you are using.



    It seems clear even to a casual observer that Apple doesn't *want* (at least so far), to allow users easy access to their files or an easy way to move files on and off the devices. Needless to say, I find this a huge barrier to productivity of any kind.



    Apple usually quotes security concerns as the reason why they don't (when they comment at all), and they use the same excuse for not having a home screen that updates with useful information as almost every other device on the market has. I find these to be specious claims that are just handy to throw out as excuses.



    Maybe they will fix all this stuff someday. I'm just tired of waiting.
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