Apple's share of U.S. PC market cracks the 10% barrier

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  • Reply 61 of 148
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Those can only do the built-in functions. They can't be programmed the way a computer can. Both of you know that as well as I do.



    I know nothing of the sort and neither do you since you have no idea which calculator I have. There have been Turing Complete programmable calculators since the 80's.
  • Reply 62 of 148
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevetim View Post


    Ok let me get this straight. I check email, watch movies, browse the Internet, create content, edit videos. Create and edit spreadsheets, write papers, order junk from amazon, create and edit staggering presentations ... Yah there is no way it's a computer. What was i thinking I must be an idiot



    Your post is certainly idiotic. Let's examine your reading comphrehenion (or rather, lack thereof)...
    • You ignored my deliberate use of quotes around PC.

    • You ignored my deliberate use of PC.

    • You then removed 'personal' from this well weathered and long defined term.

    • You either ignored the fact or don't understand that this is how the industry draws the line which I denote by my "as currently defined" qualifier.

    • You also relay an example that can be done on a category known as "smartphones" but you don't seem to be stating these, too, are 'PCs' simply because you can do things that were only possible on notebooks and desktop with desktop OSes not to many years. (How can a notebook have a desktop OS, it would need to have to have a notebook OS since words can only have original and literally meanings in this thread?¡ <== That sign indicates sarcasm)

    The bottom line is there really isn't much in the way of electronics these days that isn't a "computer" in the broadest sense of the term, but to imply that any product that can technically do what the original 'PC' did 4 decades prior means it should automatically be added to these figures is absurd. I suppose GoogleTV will added to your silly list along with the the iPod Touch and all smartphones and anything that has a webbrowser and access to the Internet.



    Or, you could realize that words and phrases don't have to be literal and that there are reasons why certain items are excluded from a category that are easy to understand (even if you don't agree with these analysts' reasoning) if you choose to wake up and look at the big picture instead of pointing out some superficial tasks that both product types can do.
  • Reply 63 of 148
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post


    It seems the entire PC industry just does not know what to make of the iPad. It has indeed proved to be an extremely disruptive device.



    That's putting it mildly! At this point calling it a "tablet" is really a disservice. It's nothing like the "tablets" that came before it. The iPad has single handedly created an entirely new category. Lest anyone doubt this or think it hyperbole:



    Quote:

    Both Gartner and IDC aren't lumping it in as PC unit sales but I don't think there is any doubt that the iPad had a cannibalizing effect on the PC market. We'd need a breakdown of the units sold to get a clearer picture.



    Yup! A breakdown would be nice, but I have a feeling that isn't going to happen. Just like we still don't know sales numbers for the Kindle



    Quote:

    Will Gartner and IDC create a new "tablet" category next quarter or next year? Or will they decide to lump it in with the PC's? It doesn't seem Apple really cares. They're just too busy selling 'em and creating new models.



    And at the end of the day, this is exactly all that matters. Apple couldn't care less how pundits or analysts classify their products - they aren't making their products for them.



    They can call Window's PC's with a touchscreen slathered on a Tablet all they want - it won't make a difference.



    Same thing for Android - at least in it's current incarnation. And there's little to prove that Android 3.0 will make a dramatically better user experience for Android tablets. If Android is even around a year from now (bad bet on Google's part thinking that Sun wouldn't sue them for their blatant Java infringement).



    Quote:

    What's doubly amazing is that Apple still has so much room for growth. Yet the competition seems frozen and unable to respond in any effective manner. They've been blindsided and are in a daze as Apple continues to bite big chunks out of them. Fascinating...



    Room for growth is an understatement. Apple is poised to take over for the majority of normal users. The simplicity and appliance nature of the iOS is brilliant, and all that the majority of non-techncial people want and desire. As Apple matures the platform with the inevitable removal of dependance on a computer for activation, backup and upgrades the numbers who are using iOS devices like the iPad as their primary computing device will swell. I have multiple family members, and friends with family members for whom the iPad is their primary device. They love it - they can find their email, surf the web, access things like Facebook with no fuss. There is none of the (for them) baffling and frustrating baggage that comes with a general purpose Windows or Mac OSX computer.



    I used to think within five years iOS devices would outsell Windows and Mac OSX computers combined. After looking at these numbers and the growth curves for the iOS, that might be overly conservative. 17.6 million PC's (and Mac's) last quarter and the iPad is rumored to be over 8 million? Sure, it's been out for more than one quarter but they also aren't ramped up in all markets - and that's also not including the iPod Touch either



    Yikes. 2 years for iOS to overtake general purpose computers still might be overly conservative
  • Reply 64 of 148
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    Just shy of third largest PC vendor ... and where in terms of a) profitability and b) customer satisfaction and c) market share gain or loss.... This is pretty big news and the MS clone manufacturers (i.e. PCs) plus their trolls must be sh****g themselves.
  • Reply 65 of 148
    10% market share is amazing.



    whats even more amazing is amount of headroom it has for further growth... can you imagine what apple's revenue, profits and share price would be when its market share hits say, 15% ... or 20% ?
  • Reply 66 of 148
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Yes, I agree... The desktop PC is definitely a peripheral to the iPad!



    .



    Ha ha ... love it. Maybe not quite yet but soon to be. I client of mine told me today even his beloved MBP (this is a PC convert as of last year) is now only used 10% of the time, the other 90% of the time he uses his iPad.
  • Reply 67 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    But that is not what the word barrier mens. I\\'ve never been to Spain, but it is no barrier.



    1

    a : something material that blocks or is intended to block passage <highway barriers> <a barrier contraceptive>

    b : a natural formation or structure that prevents or hinders movement or action <geographic barriers to species dissemination> <barrier beaches> <drugs that cross the placental barrier>

    2

    plural often capitalized : a medieval war game in which combatants fight on foot with a fence or railing between them

    3

    : something immaterial that impedes or separates : obstacle <behavioral barriers> <trade barriers>



    Examples of BARRIER



    Concrete barriers surround the race track to protect spectators.

    The tree\\'s roots serve as a barrier against soil erosion.

    The mountain range forms a natural barrier between the two countries.

    Both leaders are in favor of removing trade barriers.

    Cultural barriers have made it hard for women to enter many professions.

    He argues that regulations should not be viewed as barriers to progress.



    OMG! Barrier-gate!
  • Reply 68 of 148
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,784member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freedo View Post


    10% market share is amazing.



    whats even more amazing is amount of headroom it has for further growth... can you imagine what apple's revenue, profits and share price would be when its market share hits say, 15% ... or 20% ?



    Exactly, think about it ... #2 company in the world and only 10% market penetration. Jeeez ... AAPL should explode in the next year or two.
  • Reply 69 of 148
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    They ALL include netbooks.



    Here's an excellent analysis adding in the iPad numbers:



    http://www.asymco.com/2010/10/13/gar...n-pc-rankings/
  • Reply 70 of 148
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    I know nothing of the sort and neither do you since you have no idea which calculator I have. There have been Turing Complete programmable calculators since the 80's.



    A calculator is still a calculator. That's why they're not called computers. I can raise this argument and agree with the first part of your first statement, but that would be just grinding it in. We can go down the trail here as far as you want, but all natering aside, they are still two different tools. You ca get calculator functionality in a computer, but not the other way around.



    It would be nice if a real Turing machine, of any kind, existed, but it doesn't, no matter what they may be called.
  • Reply 71 of 148
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Here's an excellent analysis adding in the iPad numbers:



    http://www.asymco.com/2010/10/13/gar...n-pc-rankings/



    We know that the iPad counts here. If people are buying them instead of computers, then they fit the category. They do what computers do.
  • Reply 72 of 148
    iPads should absolutely be considered a computer. Just because you need to hook it up to a desktop doesn't make it not, a computer.



    People need to look up what a computer is. I'm pretty sure in that definition isn't a line that says hooking it to another system to initialize it makes it not, a computer.



    I'd even go as far as iphones are hand held computers. They are.
  • Reply 73 of 148
    sennensennen Posts: 1,472member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    But as usual, DaHarder is saying something he knows isn't true in order to annoy people. Either that, or he doesn't know what computers are, OR peripherals.



    It must be the latter (bolded), he wouldn't be that kind of person would he?



    Anyway, he should just stick to Engadget.
  • Reply 74 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post


    iPads should absolutely be considered a computer. Just because you need to hook it up to a desktop doesn't make it not, a computer.



    People need to look up what a computer is. I'm pretty sure in that definition isn't a line that says hooking it to another system to initialize it makes it not, a computer.



    I'd even go as far as iphones are hand held computers. They are.



    +++ QFT



    There is very little (if anything} that a microcomputer of the late 1970s could do that a smart phone or an iPad can do-- a lot better, faster and for a lot less $.



    I paid $2,100 (1978 $ -- worth about $5,000 in today's $) for a 16 KB (that's Kilobyte) RAM Apple ][. I had to add a TV and cassette recorder for another $500.



    What is a $500 iPad?



    Shit, I spill more than that each month!



    .
  • Reply 75 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    you choose to wake up and look at the big picture instead of pointing out some superficial tasks that both product types can do.





    Superficial tasks? Please reread my list. I would hardly call what most people use a computer or "pc" for as superficial. The tasks I pointed out are not superficial, they are "the thing". Those items are the tasks they virtually anyone would associate with a computer or pc or whatever we choose to call it. And I would not put an iPhone in the same class for content creation as I would iPad. The tools apple provide such as pages, numbers or keynote are not available for iphone. There are other apps out there, but in my opinion, nothing yet effective on the phone. I would agree not to put an iPhone in the PC category. I only question research firms who ignore iPads and androids in the data, but include other tablet devices. And as another poster has pointed out, it looks like there are some major differences in some results in the data.
  • Reply 76 of 148
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevetim View Post


    Superficial tasks? Please reread my list. I would hardly call what most people use a computer or "pc" for as superficial. The tasks I pointed out are not superficial, they are "the thing". Those items are the tasks they virtually anyone would associate with a computer or pc or whatever we choose to call it. And I would not put an iPhone in the same class for content creation as I would iPad. The tools apple provide such as pages, numbers or keynote are not available for iphone. There are other apps out there, but in my opinion, nothing yet effective on the phone. I would agree not to put an iPhone in the PC category. I only question research firms who ignore iPads and androids in the data, but include other tablet devices. And as another poster has pointed out, it looks like there are some major differences in some results in the data.



    1) Way to pull usage of ?superfical? without understanding the point.. again.



    2) So now you are saying the iPhone can?t be used for content creation and that the vendor that makes the OS has to also make the productivity apps for that OS for it to be considered. So Macs we?ren?t ?PCs? until Apple created iWork, were they not ?PCs? until all these of those apps were in iWork (which took several years after it was released), or are Macs not ?PCs? because they are Macs?



    3) You can?t have it both ways, either you adhere to some archaic definition without wavering or you do what you are doing know and make excuses why one counts and the other doesn?t to justify your hypocrisy, but the fact remains that the definition for these companies has not changed and until it does tablets with non-windowed OSes running on ARM processors are not going to be part of their tally.



    Again, you don?t have to like, but you have to accept it.
  • Reply 77 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    Why is 10% a \\"barrier\\"? Is it something that is difficult to pass through, like the sound barrier?



    And that \\"modern day high\\" characterization - was the percentage higher in the pre-modern era? When was that?



    Think Group Psychology.
  • Reply 78 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    It is not intended to be a standalone device. It makes trade-offs in product attributes (e.g., portable v. standalone) as all computers do, even laptops v. desktops.



    For someone to call it a peripheral is a ridiculous statement, and I am sure you'd agree.



    Yeah peripheral would be a bit over the top.
  • Reply 79 of 148
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevetim View Post


    Again that is a matter of user preference and opinion. Word processing? complex excel calculations? PowerPoint design? Video editing? Sound editing? Image editing? This is a media creation machine as well as media playback machine? This is a computer ... and many of us who took this on the road instead of the laptop on a business trip got sold on this quickly.



    It has never been necessary for me to connect my mac to my ipad. Like another poster said. Even apple can do that, so you don't really NEED the computer to make it work ... so it is hardly a perif. It acts more like a small laptop computer than any other device category. That is my point. An honest look at the numbers should include the iPad as a computer sale.



    I agree you don't need a computer to own an iPad and make it work but using it in conjunction with a laptop of desktop as least for me makes life easier. If not for anything but to link up with iTunes and to use your laptop to create a backup for your data. Which of course there are other way to back up your iPad.



    Once the iPad has the ability to print, multitask and has a decent file system then I would consider it more of a standalone device if you want to use an alternative way to backup your iPad.



    The iPad is a growing product and I would guess that few generations down the line its going to be a rather different device.
  • Reply 80 of 148
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    Yeah peripheral would be a bit over the top.



    I think satellite computer fits well with how Apple themselves have designed it. I?m sure the feature set will grow and I would like to think that one day Apple will allow you to operate the device without needing to ever connect it to ?PC? with iTunes to activate it.
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