I think it'd be worth seeing - I don't think the problem is touch on 7" - it's probably the visuals which may not be up to the iPad experience at a smaller size. Let's face it they're not touting thr web experience on the iPT so much as gaming.
I'm on my iPad right now. Pity the poor iOS developer - the thought of programming for yet another screen size must be unbearable. Imagine having to collect another 99 cents from every single person who wants your app.
BTW how do you type the cents glyph on an iPad or have pennies been banned as well?
My dad died this year at 87. He was sitting at his new 27" iMac and had an aneurism. I have 23,000 e-mails from him to go back over, Dad's are a great miss.
Steve is right, and wrong at the same time. The iPad screen is an ideal size for the iPad's interface. A 7" screen is too small to be efficient and would be extremely cramped. However iPhone screens are 3.5" and perfectly usable. It's all about how you design the UI.
I agree with Steve that the 10" iPad is the ideal size, but he is either intentionally deflecting or failing to understand that the competition is going to sell millions of 7" tablets even if they're not the ideal size.
So yet another great reason for the larger format! Thanks for explaining.
Now lets consider that other vendors need to use more powerful chips that subsequently use more power because the OS is less idealized for the HW. Then add in the less engineered components that take up more room than what Apple can achieve with their top to bottom refinements.
Steve is right, and wrong at the same time. The iPad screen is an ideal size for the iPad's interface. A 7" screen is too small to be efficient and would be extremely cramped. However iPhone screens are 3.5" and perfectly usable. It's all about how you design the UI.
I agree with Steve that the 10" iPad is the ideal size, but he is either intentionally deflecting or failing to understand that the competition is going to sell millions of 7" tablets even if they're not the ideal size.
It will be interesting to see if this is the case. I am not willing to bet either way just yet. Also I recall Steve ridiculing the idea any one would watch a small screen then a year later proudly showed the iPod with color screen and movie playing ability. You never know if he is just throwing curved balls at the copycats or not.
Now lets consider that other vendors need to use more powerful chips that subsequently use more power because the OS is less idealized for the HW. Then add in the less engineered components that take up more room than what Apple can achieve with their top to bottom refinements.
Well that's even better news.
At some point you have to wonder why every computer / phone hardware manufacturer feels they have to ape everything Apple does. There are infinite possibilities out there!
My dad died this year at 87. He was sitting at his new 27" iMac and had an aneurism. I have 23,000 e-mails from him to go back over, Dad's are a great miss.
Not exactly. it also shaves off screen-size, which saves battery. The battery wouldn't be much different.
Now, let's enter the real world and use our brains.
Let's make all the assumptions as favorable to your argument as possible. Now:
- A 7" screen has roughly 1/2 the area of a 10" screen. So let's assume that the case thickness is zero and the thickness of a 7" iPad is the same as a 10" iPad. That means that the internal volume of a 7" iPad would be 1/2 of the volume of a 10" iPad.
Now, let's look at internal volumes:
A4 processor, SOC, RAM, etc volumes would be the same in the 10" and 7" iPads. So the battery volume in the 7" would have to reduced by MORE than 50%.
Power usage?
A4 processor, SOC, RAM, etc batter usage would be the same. Let's assume that screen energy usage is proportional to its area, so it would be 50% lower (again, it would actually use MORE than 1/2 the energy of the 10", but we're biasing everything your way).
So, battery volume would be considerably LESS than 1/2 the iPad, but energy usage would be considerably MORE than 1/2 of the iPad.
Result? Dismal battery life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago
Didn't think i needed to list them? Anyway, for anyone outside the reality distortion field....
Any SONY MP3 player is far better noise production wise than anything the iPod has ever offered. Heck even the Creative ones are better and the Zune HD is better for noise and picture..
the iPad is a lovely piece of hardware, crippled by useless production software. Browsing the web, watching a movie its Ok but if I want to do something professional, productive and compatible then I pull out a PC laptop which was half the price and will likely last twice the amount of time an Apple laptop will last (in my experience).
OSX is held up as the bastion of OS development..... but Win 7 is clearly better in nearly every way. Heck the new Ubu is better than OSX.
Any phone..as a phone is better than the iPhone, pick any manufacturer you like. iOS UI is so dated and poor now its not funny. Android just wipes the floor with it. You can set Android up so that the number of times you have to press an icon is so small it doesn't matter.
Pressing icon buttons to get to a Wifi network setting is so 2007!!!
lets not forget the TCO of iPhone too, in some places its 3 or 4 times the cost of other 3g phones.
your colleagues are either useless or lying, both my android handsets outperform both iphone 3gs and iphone 4 in battery life by a handy margin.
maybe its the extra calls they can take because of the improved reception??
Move on troll. Throw your bs on people who care. The reception on ATT is location specific. If you don't like it pick another carrier. Outperform, what is your metric? A handy margin spoken like a true engineer or is that a salesmen? The reality is all these devices are battery constrained and Apple is currently making a great performance vs battery compromise. Show real data ro STFU
IMO Mr. Jobs is out and out lying about some of this stuff and it's really quite apparent this time that he is. Perhaps the reality distortion field is finally breaking down. I know it has for me.
And yet you seemingly continue to buy his products .... hmmmm .. strange, very strange.
For those of us that want a small, efficient portable computer but don't necessarily need a phone, or a TV watching machine, a 7" tablet is the sweet spot.
Or so you imagine. Apple has already imagined all sort of screen sizes, plus Steve says they done the math (ie. testing) and the idea is dumb. Time to reset your reality gauge, because in this universe, opinions about computer design by Steve Jobs are much more valuable and insightful than yours.
Maybe you have a special physical condition that precludes an iPad? Have you ever thought about trying a gym? Build up a little muscle and you can increase your carrying capacity a tenth of a pound to carry a 10 inch. Look at it this way, Steve Jobs has had pancreatic cancer twice and he seems to be able to sport an iPad with ease. I think a little strength training would help you in all sorts of ways.
I understand that there are also people who are very small in stature. I saw a movie called 'Stuart Little' about someone with this condition. In this case, it's understandable why you might want a smaller tablet to carry. However, I think you would be much better off with the larger screen, laying it on the floor, and jumping on the screen with your tiny mouse feet. If the touch gestures are too difficult, you can try using your tail in conjunction with one leg to achieve scrolling, pinch-zoom, and rotation.
Move on troll. Throw your bs on people who care. The reception on ATT is location specific. If you don't like it pick another carrier. Outperform, what is your metric? A handy margin spoken like a true engineer or is that a salesmen? The reality is all these devices are battery constrained and Apple is currently making a great performance vs battery compromise. Show real data ro STFU
You used to have to stop and consider a comment for a second, but between Arch, appl and jfanning the caliber of trolling has really become pretty weak.
Take Arch?s comment?s about the battery life. He makes no specific statements about Android models and states no actual testing he?s done (the first two clues). Add in independent sites actually testing these handsets and you see how these guys are really just talking out their asses.
It doesn't surprise me that iPad sales have tanked, there are just to many glaring issues with this rev one device. For one people are starting to realize the thing doesn't have the RAM to make it a good investment. More so they are realizing the screen size of the device really sucks. It is simply to big for many uses and is combined with a terrible aspect ratio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44
Although the iPhone and the iPad share the same OS, the user interface elements are quite different. I think Steve's point was that an iPad like interface would not work for a 7" screen (not sure I agree, but I am pretty confident thats what he meant). An iPhone like UI would work on the 7" screen.
But that brings us to his second argument (which most outlets have ignored) that the slightly greater mobility 7" gives you, is not worth the loss of usability. Essentially, the 7" only adds the ability to stow away in handbags, to what the iPad can do (or maybe large jacket pockets).
This is all BS, there is absolutely nothing stopping the construction of usable Controls on an intermediate iPad. Nothing.
Besides the sales of similarly sized E-Book readers ought to cause people to wise up here. Sometimes portability for a given level of functionality is everything.
[quote]
OTOH, the slightly greater usability the 7" screen gives you over the iPhone, is not worth the extensive loss of portability
[quote]
The screen area difference is massive.
Quote:
(the iPhone or iPod Touch can literally go everywhere). So his point was basically that 7" was a compromise not giving you enough usability as the iPad, nor enough portability as the iPhone.
Frankly I think his point was to confuse the market!
Quote:
I disagree with these comments of his (but its not like I have used a 7" tablet, so take my opinion for what its worth) but I do agree with his other comment. The ONLY reason all these companies are promising 7" tablets is because they cannot compete with Apple on price.
I don't think this is the case either. IPad is a device with extremely limited functionality that has to be supplemented with very expensive add ons. Be it the cellular modem or the camera connection kit. In the end iPad is one expensive kit.
Quote:
I think Apple's reputation for charing an Apple Tax is blinding people to the amazing cost efficiencies Apple is achieving.
Well if you look at iPhone that advantage isn't being passed on to consummers. IPad of course doesn't have competition right now but you would have to be delusional to think it is a good buy. All I need to do is offer up Apple TV and its low price to squash any arguement about iPad being a good buy. For the most part the same basic hardware.
Beyound that why in the hell does iPad get so expensive for modest increases in flash memory? Seriously if Apple is getting such good deals on parts why doesn't it pass along these savings.
Quote:
They have cornered the markets on most components, and got the best prices (locked in years ago). They have brought a lot of component design in house, saving extensively in costs (best example is the A4). Their software is fantastically tuned to the hardware, meaning that the same amount of hardware goes far further running iOS than Android and the likes. Their supply chain is Walmart like efficient.
The biggest problem I have with the above is this idea that the sofyware is so perfectly tuned for iOS devices. Clearly it isn't as can be seen by the rapid drop in support for older iOS devices.
Quote:
Not only are the able to control costs like none other, they are able to control selling prices like no one else in the industry.
And that is a good thing?
Quote:
AT&T would love to give an iPhone away for each iPhone you buy, like Verizon does with Droids, but Apple prevents them from doing this because they know people are willing to pay the money they ask for the iPhone.
This is the real "Apple Tax". People are willing to pay the actual price for Apple products, rather than waiting for them to drop to below cost level bargain bin rates.
The real Apple tax is convincing people that their high prices are in actuality a bargain. Snake Oil salesman could learn a thing or two from Apple.
Comments
I think it'd be worth seeing - I don't think the problem is touch on 7" - it's probably the visuals which may not be up to the iPad experience at a smaller size. Let's face it they're not touting thr web experience on the iPT so much as gaming.
I'm on my iPad right now. Pity the poor iOS developer - the thought of programming for yet another screen size must be unbearable. Imagine having to collect another 99 cents from every single person who wants your app.
BTW how do you type the cents glyph on an iPad or have pennies been banned as well?
My Dad died in 2008. Same boat. Touched me, dude.
My dad died this year at 87. He was sitting at his new 27" iMac and had an aneurism. I have 23,000 e-mails from him to go back over, Dad's are a great miss.
I agree with Steve that the 10" iPad is the ideal size, but he is either intentionally deflecting or failing to understand that the competition is going to sell millions of 7" tablets even if they're not the ideal size.
Steve Jobs is right.
Let me see if I have this right?
This co-guy, Balsillie, conducts an event to introduce the PlayBook Tablet
He shows some video of something -- a touchless touch interface
He walks around stage with a slab with something that looks like XMAS wrapping pasted on the front -- that he never even looks at or holds it up
He announces that the highly-efficient Flash will provide the GUI
He announces some mondo specs
-- 1 GHz Dual Core Processor
-- 1 GB RAM
-- Dual Everything
-- Support for every programming language known to man
-- Cell radio support for 0G, 1G, 2G, 3G, LTE, 5G
-- 17 connecter orifices - including 1 for a winch
-- yadda, yadda, yadda
He doesn't know what it will cost.
He doesn't know when it will be available.
He doesn't know it's battery life.
He can't show you one because, it doesn't exist.
Now, that's a reality distortion field!
Steve Jobs could learn from him!
... not too interested in the device...
... but, can I buy me some of those specs... separately?
.
So yet another great reason for the larger format! Thanks for explaining.
Now lets consider that other vendors need to use more powerful chips that subsequently use more power because the OS is less idealized for the HW. Then add in the less engineered components that take up more room than what Apple can achieve with their top to bottom refinements.
Steve is right, and wrong at the same time. The iPad screen is an ideal size for the iPad's interface. A 7" screen is too small to be efficient and would be extremely cramped. However iPhone screens are 3.5" and perfectly usable. It's all about how you design the UI.
I agree with Steve that the 10" iPad is the ideal size, but he is either intentionally deflecting or failing to understand that the competition is going to sell millions of 7" tablets even if they're not the ideal size.
It will be interesting to see if this is the case. I am not willing to bet either way just yet. Also I recall Steve ridiculing the idea any one would watch a small screen then a year later proudly showed the iPod with color screen and movie playing ability. You never know if he is just throwing curved balls at the copycats or not.
Now lets consider that other vendors need to use more powerful chips that subsequently use more power because the OS is less idealized for the HW. Then add in the less engineered components that take up more room than what Apple can achieve with their top to bottom refinements.
Well that's even better news.
At some point you have to wonder why every computer / phone hardware manufacturer feels they have to ape everything Apple does. There are infinite possibilities out there!
My dad died this year at 87. He was sitting at his new 27" iMac and had an aneurism. I have 23,000 e-mails from him to go back over, Dad's are a great miss.
My heart goes out to you, friend.
Not exactly. it also shaves off screen-size, which saves battery. The battery wouldn't be much different.
Now, let's enter the real world and use our brains.
Let's make all the assumptions as favorable to your argument as possible. Now:
- A 7" screen has roughly 1/2 the area of a 10" screen. So let's assume that the case thickness is zero and the thickness of a 7" iPad is the same as a 10" iPad. That means that the internal volume of a 7" iPad would be 1/2 of the volume of a 10" iPad.
Now, let's look at internal volumes:
A4 processor, SOC, RAM, etc volumes would be the same in the 10" and 7" iPads. So the battery volume in the 7" would have to reduced by MORE than 50%.
Power usage?
A4 processor, SOC, RAM, etc batter usage would be the same. Let's assume that screen energy usage is proportional to its area, so it would be 50% lower (again, it would actually use MORE than 1/2 the energy of the 10", but we're biasing everything your way).
So, battery volume would be considerably LESS than 1/2 the iPad, but energy usage would be considerably MORE than 1/2 of the iPad.
Result? Dismal battery life.
Didn't think i needed to list them? Anyway, for anyone outside the reality distortion field....
Any SONY MP3 player is far better noise production wise than anything the iPod has ever offered. Heck even the Creative ones are better and the Zune HD is better for noise and picture..
the iPad is a lovely piece of hardware, crippled by useless production software. Browsing the web, watching a movie its Ok but if I want to do something professional, productive and compatible then I pull out a PC laptop which was half the price and will likely last twice the amount of time an Apple laptop will last (in my experience).
OSX is held up as the bastion of OS development..... but Win 7 is clearly better in nearly every way. Heck the new Ubu is better than OSX.
Any phone..as a phone is better than the iPhone, pick any manufacturer you like. iOS UI is so dated and poor now its not funny. Android just wipes the floor with it. You can set Android up so that the number of times you have to press an icon is so small it doesn't matter.
Pressing icon buttons to get to a Wifi network setting is so 2007!!!
lets not forget the TCO of iPhone too, in some places its 3 or 4 times the cost of other 3g phones.
Vertical integration always fails.....always will.
Enjoy the good times, they won't last forever
And I see nothing supporting anything you've said - except your own delusions. If you ever have facts, feel free to present them.
Windows 7 better than OS X in every way? Only if your an IT guru relying on customer support for your job security.
My heart goes out to you, friend.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
your colleagues are either useless or lying, both my android handsets outperform both iphone 3gs and iphone 4 in battery life by a handy margin.
maybe its the extra calls they can take because of the improved reception??
Move on troll. Throw your bs on people who care. The reception on ATT is location specific. If you don't like it pick another carrier. Outperform, what is your metric? A handy margin spoken like a true engineer or is that a salesmen? The reality is all these devices are battery constrained and Apple is currently making a great performance vs battery compromise. Show real data ro STFU
So true
Yes indeed.
IMO Mr. Jobs is out and out lying about some of this stuff and it's really quite apparent this time that he is. Perhaps the reality distortion field is finally breaking down. I know it has for me.
And yet you seemingly continue to buy his products .... hmmmm .. strange, very strange.
For those of us that want a small, efficient portable computer but don't necessarily need a phone, or a TV watching machine, a 7" tablet is the sweet spot.
Or so you imagine. Apple has already imagined all sort of screen sizes, plus Steve says they done the math (ie. testing) and the idea is dumb. Time to reset your reality gauge, because in this universe, opinions about computer design by Steve Jobs are much more valuable and insightful than yours.
Maybe you have a special physical condition that precludes an iPad? Have you ever thought about trying a gym? Build up a little muscle and you can increase your carrying capacity a tenth of a pound to carry a 10 inch. Look at it this way, Steve Jobs has had pancreatic cancer twice and he seems to be able to sport an iPad with ease. I think a little strength training would help you in all sorts of ways.
I understand that there are also people who are very small in stature. I saw a movie called 'Stuart Little' about someone with this condition. In this case, it's understandable why you might want a smaller tablet to carry. However, I think you would be much better off with the larger screen, laying it on the floor, and jumping on the screen with your tiny mouse feet. If the touch gestures are too difficult, you can try using your tail in conjunction with one leg to achieve scrolling, pinch-zoom, and rotation.
Os X is on only Apples Macs, compared to Windows on so many different manufacturers...
Is that why apple's market share is so low? Why not fix that?
Now, let's enter the real world and use our brains.
You use yours, I'll work mine.
Keep in mind I'm comparing a 9" iPad to a 9.7" version. I'm not talking about 7" tablets.
Move on troll. Throw your bs on people who care. The reception on ATT is location specific. If you don't like it pick another carrier. Outperform, what is your metric? A handy margin spoken like a true engineer or is that a salesmen? The reality is all these devices are battery constrained and Apple is currently making a great performance vs battery compromise. Show real data ro STFU
You used to have to stop and consider a comment for a second, but between Arch, appl and jfanning the caliber of trolling has really become pretty weak.
Take Arch?s comment?s about the battery life. He makes no specific statements about Android models and states no actual testing he?s done (the first two clues). Add in independent sites actually testing these handsets and you see how these guys are really just talking out their asses.
Although the iPhone and the iPad share the same OS, the user interface elements are quite different. I think Steve's point was that an iPad like interface would not work for a 7" screen (not sure I agree, but I am pretty confident thats what he meant). An iPhone like UI would work on the 7" screen.
But that brings us to his second argument (which most outlets have ignored) that the slightly greater mobility 7" gives you, is not worth the loss of usability. Essentially, the 7" only adds the ability to stow away in handbags, to what the iPad can do (or maybe large jacket pockets).
This is all BS, there is absolutely nothing stopping the construction of usable Controls on an intermediate iPad. Nothing.
Besides the sales of similarly sized E-Book readers ought to cause people to wise up here. Sometimes portability for a given level of functionality is everything.
[quote]
OTOH, the slightly greater usability the 7" screen gives you over the iPhone, is not worth the extensive loss of portability
[quote]
The screen area difference is massive.
(the iPhone or iPod Touch can literally go everywhere). So his point was basically that 7" was a compromise not giving you enough usability as the iPad, nor enough portability as the iPhone.
Frankly I think his point was to confuse the market!
I disagree with these comments of his (but its not like I have used a 7" tablet, so take my opinion for what its worth) but I do agree with his other comment. The ONLY reason all these companies are promising 7" tablets is because they cannot compete with Apple on price.
I don't think this is the case either. IPad is a device with extremely limited functionality that has to be supplemented with very expensive add ons. Be it the cellular modem or the camera connection kit. In the end iPad is one expensive kit.
I think Apple's reputation for charing an Apple Tax is blinding people to the amazing cost efficiencies Apple is achieving.
Well if you look at iPhone that advantage isn't being passed on to consummers. IPad of course doesn't have competition right now but you would have to be delusional to think it is a good buy. All I need to do is offer up Apple TV and its low price to squash any arguement about iPad being a good buy. For the most part the same basic hardware.
Beyound that why in the hell does iPad get so expensive for modest increases in flash memory? Seriously if Apple is getting such good deals on parts why doesn't it pass along these savings.
They have cornered the markets on most components, and got the best prices (locked in years ago). They have brought a lot of component design in house, saving extensively in costs (best example is the A4). Their software is fantastically tuned to the hardware, meaning that the same amount of hardware goes far further running iOS than Android and the likes. Their supply chain is Walmart like efficient.
The biggest problem I have with the above is this idea that the sofyware is so perfectly tuned for iOS devices. Clearly it isn't as can be seen by the rapid drop in support for older iOS devices.
Not only are the able to control costs like none other, they are able to control selling prices like no one else in the industry.
And that is a good thing?
AT&T would love to give an iPhone away for each iPhone you buy, like Verizon does with Droids, but Apple prevents them from doing this because they know people are willing to pay the money they ask for the iPhone.
This is the real "Apple Tax". People are willing to pay the actual price for Apple products, rather than waiting for them to drop to below cost level bargain bin rates.
The real Apple tax is convincing people that their high prices are in actuality a bargain. Snake Oil salesman could learn a thing or two from Apple.
Why is it people who don't like apple products come here and outright lie about this stuff?
Simple ..... because their opinion is not supported by the truth.