Often this takes the form of peppering a thread with endless sarcastic little jibes, and sometimes it takes the form of longer rants about Apple's greed, or hatred of freedom, or plans to kill us all, or just the generally distasteful nature of anyone likes or uses their kit.
Myself, I don't see why it's necessary to indulge these types. They never bring anything but discord to any thread they participate in, they're not making legitimate criticisms, or if they are it's incidental to what they're about.
I've said this before, but I think troll behavior is best discerned over a number of posts.
There are lots of people here who have some pet gripes about Apple, or at times bitch about what Apple does or doesn't do-- just as you'd expect.
But there are more than a few that never, ever, ever say a single thing about Apple or Apple's customers that isn't couched in the bitterest, most negative terms possible. Often this takes the form of peppering a thread with endless sarcastic little jibes, and sometimes it takes the form of longer rants about Apple's greed, or hatred of freedom, or plans to kill us all, or just the generally distasteful nature of anyone likes or uses their kit.
Myself, I don't see why it's necessary to indulge these types. They never bring anything but discord to any thread they participate in, they're not making legitimate criticisms, or if they are it's incidental to what they're about. I guess the concern is that we don't want a forum of fan boys and a certain population of cranky contrarians keeps us honest, but it really doesn't seem to do anything more than derail a lot of threads into bickering.
Honestly, is anyone expecting, say, Blackintosh to bring on point criticism to bear? I can't see anything but relentless negativity. How is someone who posts nothing but complaints and bile in a platform specific user forum anything but a troll? And how is not possible to make that distinction when you have a pretty lengthy posting history to go on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot
+ 1 ... and another 1
I agree. Though I don't think that there are enough mods to monitor, say, 10 active threads, 24/7.
What would help is some sort of mod-alert mechanism -- perhaps, even alerting the troll that he is being "reported".
It really isn't easy. I've had people accuse me of being a troll when I didn't like something Apple did. People have to be allowed their opinions even when they're far out. As long as they don't abuse people in some way, or make derogatory statements that are inflammatory, it's hard to do much, and be fair. And honestly, some of the "refutations" are worse than the original trolling.
I agree it can't be easy. However, in the last few months there have been a number of trolls whose MO have been very similar .. and stand out like a sore thumb. Addabox has clearly spelled out the nature of their posts. Let me add another warning sign.
They post A LOT!
One hundred posts a month (directly after joining) seems to be the rule of thumb. Try a "members search" using those parameters. Then go back a few months... here's who you find (amongst others)
sendMe
Blackintosh
appl
AppleRulez
SpotOn
Stevie
WilliamG
iLuv
Teckstud
Woohoo!
AngusYoung
iGenius
Mrkoolaid
Unlike Dick A's "dentist friend" these guys will find any reason to snark about every aspect of every Apple product. It's constant and annoying and is bringing the tone of this forum down to Digg levels.
I agree it can't be easy. However, in the last few months there have been a number of trolls whose MO have been very similar .. and stand out like a sore thumb. Addabox has clearly spelled out the nature of their posts. Let me add another warning sign.
They post A LOT!
One hundred posts a month (directly after joining) seems to be the rule of thumb. Try a "members search" using those parameters. Then go back a few months... here's who you find (amongst others)
sendMe
Blackintosh
appl
AppleRulez
SpotOn
Stevie
WilliamG
iLuv
Teckstud
Woohoo!
AngusYoung
iGenius
Mrkoolaid
Unlike Dick A's "dentist friend" these guys will find any reason to snark about every aspect of every Apple product. It's constant and annoying and is bringing the tone of this forum down to Digg levels.
Yep!
Whenever I read a post that appears like troll output, I always glance at the poster's join date and number of posts. Then drill-down on his other posts for verification.
It helps, but isn't foolproof.
Often, a troll joined a while back, like the 3GS announcement, He is quite active for a while, then goes silent (maybe even banned).
But, then, when another Apple event occurs, (with a large audience) -- there he is again... up to his usual, disruptive shotgun posting.
Sometimes, it appears that several (paid?) trolls appear together -- serving up FUD softballs and feeding off each other.
I like AI, and have kerned (something, automatically just changed "learned" to "kerned") a lot here and enjoy the banter.
I would like to see the troll situation improved -- but, maybe, it's like "free speech" -- you have to accept the "bad" to benefit from the "good".
I agree. Though I don't think that there are enough mods to monitor, say, 10 active threads, 24/7.
What would help is some sort of mod-alert mechanism -- perhaps, even alerting the troll that he is being "reported".
.
That's the thing though: the kind of behavior we're talking about doesn't require post to post monitoring. It's a cumulative thing. I would think that, if the mods are paying even peripheral attention to threads, that it's pretty clear who the offenders are. I mean, there's that list posted above. Does anyone here really disagree that these folks are mostly here to ruffle feathers and stir up anger? It's like this open secret, but we have to pretend that "unless they're personally attacking someone there's no way to tell spirited debate from trolling."
Now, most of the people on that list have been banned, but I doubt it was for any particular ad hom type post. So why are the ones still active allowed to carry on? Is there a "you can troll for 6 months and then we're going to ban you" rule or something?
I agree it can't be easy. However, in the last few months there have been a number of trolls whose MO have been very similar .. and stand out like a sore thumb. Addabox has clearly spelled out the nature of their posts. Let me add another warning sign.
They post A LOT!
One hundred posts a month (directly after joining) seems to be the rule of thumb. Try a "members search" using those parameters. Then go back a few months... here's who you find (amongst others)
sendMe
Blackintosh
appl
AppleRulez
SpotOn
Stevie
WilliamG
iLuv
Teckstud
Woohoo!
AngusYoung
iGenius
Mrkoolaid
And Newtron, one of the worst. I'm sure many have noticed that a Windows or PC related topic brings them out in teams. I would go for a reporting method whether the reporter is ID'd or not.
It must be really tiresome and puzzling for non-US followers to have to wade through this trash-strewn thread. I was thinking of counting up the number of appl's posts, but that in itself is a waste of time. Anyway, not only has civility been falling in this culture but duplicity is rising correspondingly. If these guys are getting paid, as many suspect, what does that say about the entity that is paying them?
I forgot, back on topic: The 16:9 aspect ratio looks ungainly when it's in tablet form, to me anyway, sort of like a plank you might serve a fish on. I just saw the two new MB Airs. The small one is more 16:9 but it's anchored by the keyboard and by its function as a lid. It's not a naked screen, in other words. SJ and J Ive would never make a 'wide-screen' tablet, I'm pretty sure, on aesthetic grounds alone. The Pad is not trying to be a movie screen. That sort of function blurring would be very un-Apple.
I forgot, back on topic: The 16:9 aspect ratio looks ungainly when it's in tablet form, to me anyway, sort of like a plank you might serve a fish on. I just saw the two new MB Airs. The small one is more 16:9 but it's anchored by the keyboard and by its function as a lid. It's not a naked screen, in other words. SJ and J Ive would never make a 'wide-screen' tablet, I'm pretty sure, on aesthetic grounds alone. The Pad is not trying to be a movie screen. That sort of function blurring would be very un-Apple.
I agree!
The Galaxy Tab squishes the virtual kb keys vertically when in landscape mode -- otherwise the keyboard would use over 1/2 the display.
A 16:9 screen looks weird in portrait mode vis-a-visa a book page, photograph, etc.
The biggest advantage of a 7" 16:9 tablet is, i believe, that it will fit a lab coat pocket, cargo pants pockets or a small[er] lady's purse.
One galaxy shot shows a user with a Tab in his front jeans pocket -- talk about pressure. Just wait until the rumors start -- that the electronic signals and magnetic fields can cause a loss of, shall we say: stature and vigor.
In the larger size of the HP, I think the advantages (above) disappear and you are left with a screen that is great for viewing HD moves, but less than optimal for anything else.
It will be interesting to try and compare these different form factors side-by-side (cheek-to-cheek?)... I'll forgo the jeans-pocket test.
I agree it can't be easy. However, in the last few months there have been a number of trolls whose MO have been very similar .. and stand out like a sore thumb. Addabox has clearly spelled out the nature of their posts. Let me add another warning sign.
They post A LOT!
One hundred posts a month (directly after joining) seems to be the rule of thumb. Try a "members search" using those parameters. Then go back a few months... here's who you find (amongst others)
sendMe
Blackintosh
appl
AppleRulez
SpotOn
Stevie
WilliamG
iLuv
Teckstud
Woohoo!
AngusYoung
iGenius
Mrkoolaid
Unlike Dick A's "dentist friend" these guys will find any reason to snark about every aspect of every Apple product. It's constant and annoying and is bringing the tone of this forum down to Digg levels.
And Newtron, one of the worst. I'm sure many have noticed that a Windows or PC related topic brings them out in teams. I would go for a reporting method whether the reporter is ID'd or not.
It must be really tiresome and puzzling for non-US followers to have to wade through this trash-strewn thread. I was thinking of counting up the number of appl's posts, but that in itself is a waste of time. Anyway, not only has civility been falling in this culture but duplicity is rising correspondingly. If these guys are getting paid, as many suspect, what does that say about the entity that is paying them?
Ah you recall him too. And indeed it is the non-Apple threads that inflames them the most.
Don't worry about non-US followers. Things are not necessarily that fantastic in our non-US part of the world.
I agree it can't be easy. However, in the last few months there have been a number of trolls whose MO have been very similar .. and stand out like a sore thumb. Addabox has clearly spelled out the nature of their posts. Let me add another warning sign.
They post A LOT!
One hundred posts a month (directly after joining) seems to be the rule of thumb. Try a "members search" using those parameters. Then go back a few months... here's who you find (amongst others)
sendMe
Blackintosh
appl
AppleRulez
SpotOn
Stevie
WilliamG
iLuv
Teckstud
Woohoo!
AngusYoung
iGenius
Mrkoolaid
Unlike Dick A's "dentist friend" these guys will find any reason to snark about every aspect of every Apple product. It's constant and annoying and is bringing the tone of this forum down to Digg levels.
I haven't seen a lot of those names. I can't imagine where they're posting. It's odd, but every so often, someone will post with several thousand posts to their credit, and it's the first time I've seen them post.
This is why it's a problem. Some days I'm here a lot, either posting in a couple of threads, where I can see, and looking at others where I'm not posting. But there are a lot of new threads being started in the forums that I never get to see. It's just too much. And then I'm away for a bit of time. We do need a couple more mods, but it's not easy to get people all of the time. Sometime people who want to mod shouldn't, and the ones who should don't want to.
I was labelled a troll during Antennagate, and I admit I was hyper about the whole thing. It was the dizzying desirability of the iPhone 4 that conflicted with this apparently idiotic flaw.
Anyways months later, I have my iPhone 4 through my local carrier, my free case, and life goes on, and I can't go back to a 3GS, no way.
Sometimes we have to acknowledge that the brand can stir up all kinds of really strong emotions and "counter-emotions"; the latter being the thing that drives the hater-frenzy. Trolls are driven by a kind of furious deniability that things could be going so well for a company that purposefully does things to its own rhythm in defiance of what others expect (for better or worse). A sense of being "cheated", to them, when looking at raw prices and specs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I agree. I act as a mod on a friend's LiveCast -- often, it is a fine line between a spammer/troller and one who contributes to the dialog.
The "great" spammers/trolls (like the legendary Eric Schmidt* ) go right up to the line, but do not cross.
* One of the greatest trolls of all time
I am sure that many of us come across as a troll when the discussion is on a topic in which we specialize -- and others are making blatant, false claims. I know I do!
Here's a recent example of someone who appeared to be a troll, but was not.
It was Antennaegate. A professional (a dentist, I think) bought a new iP4. It worked fine in the Apple store and the nearby AT&T store. But 200 yards from either, he could not hold any bars and would drop calls. He did not want to use a case. Three replacements later (and as many trips to the Apple and AT&T stores)... he was pissed and frustrated AIR he had sold his 3GS -- which he really liked.
He logged into an AI forum and posted questions about what others were seeing. It was a pretty mild post, considering his recent experience.
There were a lot of trolls on that thread -- and some (me included) thought he was just another paid hack.
But, his posts, while negative, were well reasoned. Several members drew him out -- he had a valid gripe!
He returned the iP4, but looks forward to a fix or the 1P5 when it comes out.
I have, since, seen him contribute to other threads -- he is definitely not a troll!
Ah you recall him too. And indeed it is the non-Apple threads that inflames them the most.
Don't worry about non-US followers. Things are not necessarily that fantastic in our non-US part of the world.
I really don't think these people are being paid. To what purpose? It just gets people even more entrenched about their positive feelings about Apple, so it serves a negative purpose.
If they were being paid, they would be much more careful in what they say, so they would come across as knowledgable and reasonable. Since they are neither, insulting us isn't going to help anyone paying them.
Some people have a psychological deficit in their feelings about themselves, and have to try to make others feel smaller than they are, in order to pump themselves up so that they feel better about themselves. This extends to the choices they make in life.
So, perhaps they are harried at work, have few real friends, have a poor family relationship, etc. It's classic. It the same as those who you see heading up the Klu Klux klan. If you pay attention to them, you'll notice that it's almost always someone who has a very low prestige job, and a disrupted family life.
At least, that's what I remember from my degree in psychology a long time ago.
I really don't think these people are being paid. To what purpose? It just gets people even more entrenched about their positive feelings about Apple, so it serves a negative purpose.
If they were being paid, they would be much more careful in what they say, so they would come across as knowledgable and reasonable. Since they are neither, insulting us isn't going to help anyone paying them.
Some people have a psychological deficit in their feelings about themselves, and have to try to make others feel smaller than they are, in order to pump themselves up so that they feel better about themselves. This extends to the choices they make in life.
So, perhaps they are harried at work, have few real friends, have a poor family relationship, etc. It's classic. It the same as those who you see heading up the Klu Klux klan. If you pay attention to them, you'll notice that it's almost always someone who has a very low prestige job, and a disrupted family life.
At least, that's what I remember from my degree in psychology a long time ago.
"And when you put MacBook Air to sleep for more than an hour, it enters what?s called standby mode. So you can come back to MacBook Air a day, a week ? even up to an entire month later ? and it wakes in an instant."
"And when you put MacBook Air to sleep for more than an hour, it enters what?s called standby mode. So you can come back to MacBook Air a day, a week ? even up to an entire month later ? and it wakes in an instant."
It's a good beginning step to 10.7, when it will begin to have true instant on.
You might be onto something, except for the fact that Windows 7 was designed with a touch interface in mind as well, there is a free product that is available which is called "Microsoft Touch Pack for Windows 7"
Yes indeed it has. Have you ever used that monstrosity? I tried it in a store and was NOT impressed. Windows 7 IS NOT designed to be used on touchdevices. Why else would a 19" touchpanel have microscopical details that you have to hit. They only made SOME alterations for the use but the App-windows are still the same.
Sometimes we have to acknowledge that the brand can stir up all kinds of really strong emotions and "counter-emotions"; the latter being the thing that drives the hater-frenzy. Trolls are driven by a kind of furious deniability that things could be going so well for a company that purposefully does things to its own rhythm in defiance of what others expect (for better or worse). A sense of being "cheated", to them, when looking at raw prices and specs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I really don't think these people are being paid. To what purpose? It just gets people even more entrenched about their positive feelings about Apple, so it serves a negative purpose.
If they were being paid, they would be much more careful in what they say, so they would come across as knowledgable and reasonable. Since they are neither, insulting us isn't going to help anyone paying them.
Some people have a psychological deficit in their feelings about themselves, and have to try to make others feel smaller than they are, in order to pump themselves up so that they feel better about themselves. This extends to the choices they make in life.
So, perhaps they are harried at work, have few real friends, have a poor family relationship, etc. It's classic. It the same as those who you see heading up the Klu Klux klan. If you pay attention to them, you'll notice that it's almost always someone who has a very low prestige job, and a disrupted family life.
At least, that's what I remember from my degree in psychology a long time ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Yeah, it's called schmuckenfreude!
.
So there are two theories, the psychological/schmuckenfreude theory, and the paid-troll theory.
Interesting idea from MelGross that paid trolls would be better spokespersons, and know all the PR lingo about the companies' products they're shilling for. Sometimes appl and DaHarder have sounded like they know too much about the press-release details of non-Apple stuff, but then I'm possibly reading too much in to it out of paranoia, induced partly by watching the dirty-trick industry since the days of . . . well, I don't want to say any names, or show how long I've been . . . all right, I remember the 50s and very staged senate hearings in black-and-white TV. But why would anyone bother to sabotage or distract AI, the best Apple news site, in an organized, financed way? And why would they choose blustering stooges to do the work? As Dick A says, that just makes everybody refine their perceptions and critiques of Apple products. But does it help the cause, or does it rather distract from the best understanding of what's going on in this huge technical paradigm shift? B'tosh always prods at the visceral with his jabs at Jobs, appl hits at the left-brain hardware level, as did Newtron, etc. These guys seem like bad clowns, but are they?
Enough already. The reverse-positive-effect hypothesis of Dick A is a better way to look at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
Clarification on Instant On feature
From Apple's website:
"And when you put MacBook Air to sleep for more than an hour, it enters what’s called standby mode. So you can come back to MacBook Air a day, a week — even up to an entire month later — and it wakes in an instant."
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
It's a good beginning step to 10.7, when it will begin to have true instant on.
And the better Apple gets with these details, the more obvious it becomes that they have invented the process of inventing desirable inventions.* The Art of Technology, or something like that. So now the jealousy gets even worse? That's what we have to short-circuit somehow, the jealousy. The anti-progressives are blocking the full awareness that we're making progress.
Meanwhile, the first Apple knowledge farm is about to open in NC. Oops, I mean server farm . . . .
*Or re-invented, if you count Edison, Armstrong, Bell Labs, etc.
Six months after the launch of Apple's iPad, HP is ready to launch its Slate 500 tablet device, which will cost $799 and is aimed at business customers.
Several news sites and blogs published details of the product launch Thursday, although the official HP Slate page at www.hp.com/go/slate had yet to go live.
According to Reuters, the HP Slate 500 will fit a full-version of Windows 7 into a 1.5 pound tablet with an 8.9-inch multi-touch screen and a 5-hour battery life. With 64GB of Flash storage, the device is $100 more than the comparable 64GB iPad. The tablet will reportedly have a 1024-by-600-pixel resolution.
The Slate 500 comes with a "digital stylus pen" and is equipped with front and rear cameras and a USB port. According to Engadget, the Slate is powered by a 1.86 GHz Intel Atom Z540 processor and 2GB of RAM.
Unlike Apple, which markets the iPad primarily to consumers, HP is stressing the Slate 500's suitability for business users. "It's really like a full-function PC, it runs Windows, it will run your office applications, it just so happens to be in a slate form factor," said Carol Hess-Nickels, director of business notebook marketing at HP.
Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer unveiled the HP Slate at CES in January. Following HP's purchase of Palm, which was primarily for its WebOS, news of the upcoming HP Slate dwindled. HP has since promised a consumer-focused WebOS-based tablet will be released next year.
During Apple's Q4 2010 conference call Monday, Apple CEO Steve Jobs told analysts that rival tablet makers were having trouble matching the iPad's pricing with comparable specs.
"Our potential competitors [in tablets] are having a tough time coming close to iPad's pricing," Jobs said. "iPad incorporates everything we've learned about building high value products. We create our own A4 chip, software, battery chemistry, enclosure, everything. This results in an incredible product at a great price. The proof will be in the pricing of our competitors' products, which will offer less for more."
For a comparison of the Slate versus the iPad, see the chart below.
The reason I troll here is because this forum is full of kooks who go wild with crazy responses.
I used to troll Christian usenet groups, but even they are less crazy than some of the posters here. I used to troll reactionary political groups. I used to troll survivalist groups. I used to troll other types of groups with crazy people in them. Even other Apple oriented web fora, like Cult of Mac.
But none of those even begin to compare to this group. You've attracted a group of rabid nutcases here, who go nuts at the least provocation. Hell, the use of an adjective can set off HUGE amounts of foolish remarks by these guys. And every one of those foolish remarks can be dissected and shown to be foolish, which just gets someone else to say something even more foolish and/or less defensible.
You have a good crop of illogical folks who will battle to the death over something like their idiosyncratic mis-definition of a word, digging in deeper and deeper despite every goddamned dictionary in the world showing them to be wrong. When wrong, they change the subject and say something else that is also foolish.
I love it here Mel. And you have no tools to keep me away.
Tell the regulars to stop being friggin nutcases about stuff. That is your only hope.
Comments
Often this takes the form of peppering a thread with endless sarcastic little jibes, and sometimes it takes the form of longer rants about Apple's greed, or hatred of freedom, or plans to kill us all, or just the generally distasteful nature of anyone likes or uses their kit.
Myself, I don't see why it's necessary to indulge these types. They never bring anything but discord to any thread they participate in, they're not making legitimate criticisms, or if they are it's incidental to what they're about.
+ 1 ... and another 1
I've said this before, but I think troll behavior is best discerned over a number of posts.
There are lots of people here who have some pet gripes about Apple, or at times bitch about what Apple does or doesn't do-- just as you'd expect.
But there are more than a few that never, ever, ever say a single thing about Apple or Apple's customers that isn't couched in the bitterest, most negative terms possible. Often this takes the form of peppering a thread with endless sarcastic little jibes, and sometimes it takes the form of longer rants about Apple's greed, or hatred of freedom, or plans to kill us all, or just the generally distasteful nature of anyone likes or uses their kit.
Myself, I don't see why it's necessary to indulge these types. They never bring anything but discord to any thread they participate in, they're not making legitimate criticisms, or if they are it's incidental to what they're about. I guess the concern is that we don't want a forum of fan boys and a certain population of cranky contrarians keeps us honest, but it really doesn't seem to do anything more than derail a lot of threads into bickering.
Honestly, is anyone expecting, say, Blackintosh to bring on point criticism to bear? I can't see anything but relentless negativity. How is someone who posts nothing but complaints and bile in a platform specific user forum anything but a troll? And how is not possible to make that distinction when you have a pretty lengthy posting history to go on?
+ 1 ... and another 1
I agree. Though I don't think that there are enough mods to monitor, say, 10 active threads, 24/7.
What would help is some sort of mod-alert mechanism -- perhaps, even alerting the troll that he is being "reported".
.
It really isn't easy. I've had people accuse me of being a troll when I didn't like something Apple did. People have to be allowed their opinions even when they're far out. As long as they don't abuse people in some way, or make derogatory statements that are inflammatory, it's hard to do much, and be fair. And honestly, some of the "refutations" are worse than the original trolling.
I agree it can't be easy. However, in the last few months there have been a number of trolls whose MO have been very similar .. and stand out like a sore thumb. Addabox has clearly spelled out the nature of their posts. Let me add another warning sign.
They post A LOT!
One hundred posts a month (directly after joining) seems to be the rule of thumb. Try a "members search" using those parameters. Then go back a few months... here's who you find (amongst others)
sendMe
Blackintosh
appl
AppleRulez
SpotOn
Stevie
WilliamG
iLuv
Teckstud
Woohoo!
AngusYoung
iGenius
Mrkoolaid
Unlike Dick A's "dentist friend" these guys will find any reason to snark about every aspect of every Apple product. It's constant and annoying and is bringing the tone of this forum down to Digg levels.
I agree it can't be easy. However, in the last few months there have been a number of trolls whose MO have been very similar .. and stand out like a sore thumb. Addabox has clearly spelled out the nature of their posts. Let me add another warning sign.
They post A LOT!
One hundred posts a month (directly after joining) seems to be the rule of thumb. Try a "members search" using those parameters. Then go back a few months... here's who you find (amongst others)
sendMe
Blackintosh
appl
AppleRulez
SpotOn
Stevie
WilliamG
iLuv
Teckstud
Woohoo!
AngusYoung
iGenius
Mrkoolaid
Unlike Dick A's "dentist friend" these guys will find any reason to snark about every aspect of every Apple product. It's constant and annoying and is bringing the tone of this forum down to Digg levels.
Yep!
Whenever I read a post that appears like troll output, I always glance at the poster's join date and number of posts. Then drill-down on his other posts for verification.
It helps, but isn't foolproof.
Often, a troll joined a while back, like the 3GS announcement, He is quite active for a while, then goes silent (maybe even banned).
But, then, when another Apple event occurs, (with a large audience) -- there he is again... up to his usual, disruptive shotgun posting.
Sometimes, it appears that several (paid?) trolls appear together -- serving up FUD softballs and feeding off each other.
I like AI, and have kerned (something, automatically just changed "learned" to "kerned") a lot here and enjoy the banter.
I would like to see the troll situation improved -- but, maybe, it's like "free speech" -- you have to accept the "bad" to benefit from the "good".
.
I agree. Though I don't think that there are enough mods to monitor, say, 10 active threads, 24/7.
What would help is some sort of mod-alert mechanism -- perhaps, even alerting the troll that he is being "reported".
.
That's the thing though: the kind of behavior we're talking about doesn't require post to post monitoring. It's a cumulative thing. I would think that, if the mods are paying even peripheral attention to threads, that it's pretty clear who the offenders are. I mean, there's that list posted above. Does anyone here really disagree that these folks are mostly here to ruffle feathers and stir up anger? It's like this open secret, but we have to pretend that "unless they're personally attacking someone there's no way to tell spirited debate from trolling."
Now, most of the people on that list have been banned, but I doubt it was for any particular ad hom type post. So why are the ones still active allowed to carry on? Is there a "you can troll for 6 months and then we're going to ban you" rule or something?
I agree it can't be easy. However, in the last few months there have been a number of trolls whose MO have been very similar .. and stand out like a sore thumb. Addabox has clearly spelled out the nature of their posts. Let me add another warning sign.
They post A LOT!
One hundred posts a month (directly after joining) seems to be the rule of thumb. Try a "members search" using those parameters. Then go back a few months... here's who you find (amongst others)
sendMe
Blackintosh
appl
AppleRulez
SpotOn
Stevie
WilliamG
iLuv
Teckstud
Woohoo!
AngusYoung
iGenius
Mrkoolaid
And Newtron, one of the worst. I'm sure many have noticed that a Windows or PC related topic brings them out in teams. I would go for a reporting method whether the reporter is ID'd or not.
It must be really tiresome and puzzling for non-US followers to have to wade through this trash-strewn thread. I was thinking of counting up the number of appl's posts, but that in itself is a waste of time. Anyway, not only has civility been falling in this culture but duplicity is rising correspondingly. If these guys are getting paid, as many suspect, what does that say about the entity that is paying them?
I forgot, back on topic: The 16:9 aspect ratio looks ungainly when it's in tablet form, to me anyway, sort of like a plank you might serve a fish on. I just saw the two new MB Airs. The small one is more 16:9 but it's anchored by the keyboard and by its function as a lid. It's not a naked screen, in other words. SJ and J Ive would never make a 'wide-screen' tablet, I'm pretty sure, on aesthetic grounds alone. The Pad is not trying to be a movie screen. That sort of function blurring would be very un-Apple.
I agree!
The Galaxy Tab squishes the virtual kb keys vertically when in landscape mode -- otherwise the keyboard would use over 1/2 the display.
A 16:9 screen looks weird in portrait mode vis-a-visa a book page, photograph, etc.
The biggest advantage of a 7" 16:9 tablet is, i believe, that it will fit a lab coat pocket, cargo pants pockets or a small[er] lady's purse.
One galaxy shot shows a user with a Tab in his front jeans pocket -- talk about pressure. Just wait until the rumors start -- that the electronic signals and magnetic fields can cause a loss of, shall we say: stature and vigor.
In the larger size of the HP, I think the advantages (above) disappear and you are left with a screen that is great for viewing HD moves, but less than optimal for anything else.
It will be interesting to try and compare these different form factors side-by-side (cheek-to-cheek?)... I'll forgo the jeans-pocket test.
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I agree it can't be easy. However, in the last few months there have been a number of trolls whose MO have been very similar .. and stand out like a sore thumb. Addabox has clearly spelled out the nature of their posts. Let me add another warning sign.
They post A LOT!
One hundred posts a month (directly after joining) seems to be the rule of thumb. Try a "members search" using those parameters. Then go back a few months... here's who you find (amongst others)
sendMe
Blackintosh
appl
AppleRulez
SpotOn
Stevie
WilliamG
iLuv
Teckstud
Woohoo!
AngusYoung
iGenius
Mrkoolaid
Unlike Dick A's "dentist friend" these guys will find any reason to snark about every aspect of every Apple product. It's constant and annoying and is bringing the tone of this forum down to Digg levels.
I would add to that list, the infamous "Newtron".
And Newtron, one of the worst. I'm sure many have noticed that a Windows or PC related topic brings them out in teams. I would go for a reporting method whether the reporter is ID'd or not.
It must be really tiresome and puzzling for non-US followers to have to wade through this trash-strewn thread. I was thinking of counting up the number of appl's posts, but that in itself is a waste of time. Anyway, not only has civility been falling in this culture but duplicity is rising correspondingly. If these guys are getting paid, as many suspect, what does that say about the entity that is paying them?
Ah you recall him too. And indeed it is the non-Apple threads that inflames them the most.
Don't worry about non-US followers. Things are not necessarily that fantastic in our non-US part of the world.
I agree it can't be easy. However, in the last few months there have been a number of trolls whose MO have been very similar .. and stand out like a sore thumb. Addabox has clearly spelled out the nature of their posts. Let me add another warning sign.
They post A LOT!
One hundred posts a month (directly after joining) seems to be the rule of thumb. Try a "members search" using those parameters. Then go back a few months... here's who you find (amongst others)
sendMe
Blackintosh
appl
AppleRulez
SpotOn
Stevie
WilliamG
iLuv
Teckstud
Woohoo!
AngusYoung
iGenius
Mrkoolaid
Unlike Dick A's "dentist friend" these guys will find any reason to snark about every aspect of every Apple product. It's constant and annoying and is bringing the tone of this forum down to Digg levels.
I haven't seen a lot of those names. I can't imagine where they're posting. It's odd, but every so often, someone will post with several thousand posts to their credit, and it's the first time I've seen them post.
This is why it's a problem. Some days I'm here a lot, either posting in a couple of threads, where I can see, and looking at others where I'm not posting. But there are a lot of new threads being started in the forums that I never get to see. It's just too much. And then I'm away for a bit of time. We do need a couple more mods, but it's not easy to get people all of the time. Sometime people who want to mod shouldn't, and the ones who should don't want to.
Anyways months later, I have my iPhone 4 through my local carrier, my free case, and life goes on, and I can't go back to a 3GS, no way.
Sometimes we have to acknowledge that the brand can stir up all kinds of really strong emotions and "counter-emotions"; the latter being the thing that drives the hater-frenzy. Trolls are driven by a kind of furious deniability that things could be going so well for a company that purposefully does things to its own rhythm in defiance of what others expect (for better or worse). A sense of being "cheated", to them, when looking at raw prices and specs.
I agree. I act as a mod on a friend's LiveCast -- often, it is a fine line between a spammer/troller and one who contributes to the dialog.
The "great" spammers/trolls (like the legendary Eric Schmidt* ) go right up to the line, but do not cross.
* One of the greatest trolls of all time
I am sure that many of us come across as a troll when the discussion is on a topic in which we specialize -- and others are making blatant, false claims. I know I do!
Here's a recent example of someone who appeared to be a troll, but was not.
It was Antennaegate. A professional (a dentist, I think) bought a new iP4. It worked fine in the Apple store and the nearby AT&T store. But 200 yards from either, he could not hold any bars and would drop calls. He did not want to use a case. Three replacements later (and as many trips to the Apple and AT&T stores)... he was pissed and frustrated AIR he had sold his 3GS -- which he really liked.
He logged into an AI forum and posted questions about what others were seeing. It was a pretty mild post, considering his recent experience.
There were a lot of trolls on that thread -- and some (me included) thought he was just another paid hack.
But, his posts, while negative, were well reasoned. Several members drew him out -- he had a valid gripe!
He returned the iP4, but looks forward to a fix or the 1P5 when it comes out.
I have, since, seen him contribute to other threads -- he is definitely not a troll!
.
Ah you recall him too. And indeed it is the non-Apple threads that inflames them the most.
Don't worry about non-US followers. Things are not necessarily that fantastic in our non-US part of the world.
I really don't think these people are being paid. To what purpose? It just gets people even more entrenched about their positive feelings about Apple, so it serves a negative purpose.
If they were being paid, they would be much more careful in what they say, so they would come across as knowledgable and reasonable. Since they are neither, insulting us isn't going to help anyone paying them.
Some people have a psychological deficit in their feelings about themselves, and have to try to make others feel smaller than they are, in order to pump themselves up so that they feel better about themselves. This extends to the choices they make in life.
So, perhaps they are harried at work, have few real friends, have a poor family relationship, etc. It's classic. It the same as those who you see heading up the Klu Klux klan. If you pay attention to them, you'll notice that it's almost always someone who has a very low prestige job, and a disrupted family life.
At least, that's what I remember from my degree in psychology a long time ago.
I really don't think these people are being paid. To what purpose? It just gets people even more entrenched about their positive feelings about Apple, so it serves a negative purpose.
If they were being paid, they would be much more careful in what they say, so they would come across as knowledgable and reasonable. Since they are neither, insulting us isn't going to help anyone paying them.
Some people have a psychological deficit in their feelings about themselves, and have to try to make others feel smaller than they are, in order to pump themselves up so that they feel better about themselves. This extends to the choices they make in life.
So, perhaps they are harried at work, have few real friends, have a poor family relationship, etc. It's classic. It the same as those who you see heading up the Klu Klux klan. If you pay attention to them, you'll notice that it's almost always someone who has a very low prestige job, and a disrupted family life.
At least, that's what I remember from my degree in psychology a long time ago.
Yeah, it's called schmuckenfreude!
.
From Apple's website:
"And when you put MacBook Air to sleep for more than an hour, it enters what?s called standby mode. So you can come back to MacBook Air a day, a week ? even up to an entire month later ? and it wakes in an instant."
Clarification on Instant On feature
From Apple's website:
"And when you put MacBook Air to sleep for more than an hour, it enters what?s called standby mode. So you can come back to MacBook Air a day, a week ? even up to an entire month later ? and it wakes in an instant."
It's a good beginning step to 10.7, when it will begin to have true instant on.
You might be onto something, except for the fact that Windows 7 was designed with a touch interface in mind as well, there is a free product that is available which is called "Microsoft Touch Pack for Windows 7"
Yes indeed it has. Have you ever used that monstrosity? I tried it in a store and was NOT impressed. Windows 7 IS NOT designed to be used on touchdevices. Why else would a 19" touchpanel have microscopical details that you have to hit. They only made SOME alterations for the use but the App-windows are still the same.
Sometimes we have to acknowledge that the brand can stir up all kinds of really strong emotions and "counter-emotions"; the latter being the thing that drives the hater-frenzy. Trolls are driven by a kind of furious deniability that things could be going so well for a company that purposefully does things to its own rhythm in defiance of what others expect (for better or worse). A sense of being "cheated", to them, when looking at raw prices and specs.
I really don't think these people are being paid. To what purpose? It just gets people even more entrenched about their positive feelings about Apple, so it serves a negative purpose.
If they were being paid, they would be much more careful in what they say, so they would come across as knowledgable and reasonable. Since they are neither, insulting us isn't going to help anyone paying them.
Some people have a psychological deficit in their feelings about themselves, and have to try to make others feel smaller than they are, in order to pump themselves up so that they feel better about themselves. This extends to the choices they make in life.
So, perhaps they are harried at work, have few real friends, have a poor family relationship, etc. It's classic. It the same as those who you see heading up the Klu Klux klan. If you pay attention to them, you'll notice that it's almost always someone who has a very low prestige job, and a disrupted family life.
At least, that's what I remember from my degree in psychology a long time ago.
Yeah, it's called schmuckenfreude!
.
So there are two theories, the psychological/schmuckenfreude theory, and the paid-troll theory.
Interesting idea from MelGross that paid trolls would be better spokespersons, and know all the PR lingo about the companies' products they're shilling for. Sometimes appl and DaHarder have sounded like they know too much about the press-release details of non-Apple stuff, but then I'm possibly reading too much in to it out of paranoia, induced partly by watching the dirty-trick industry since the days of . . . well, I don't want to say any names, or show how long I've been . . . all right, I remember the 50s and very staged senate hearings in black-and-white TV. But why would anyone bother to sabotage or distract AI, the best Apple news site, in an organized, financed way? And why would they choose blustering stooges to do the work? As Dick A says, that just makes everybody refine their perceptions and critiques of Apple products. But does it help the cause, or does it rather distract from the best understanding of what's going on in this huge technical paradigm shift? B'tosh always prods at the visceral with his jabs at Jobs, appl hits at the left-brain hardware level, as did Newtron, etc. These guys seem like bad clowns, but are they?
Enough already. The reverse-positive-effect hypothesis of Dick A is a better way to look at it.
Clarification on Instant On feature
From Apple's website:
"And when you put MacBook Air to sleep for more than an hour, it enters what’s called standby mode. So you can come back to MacBook Air a day, a week — even up to an entire month later — and it wakes in an instant."
It's a good beginning step to 10.7, when it will begin to have true instant on.
And the better Apple gets with these details, the more obvious it becomes that they have invented the process of inventing desirable inventions.* The Art of Technology, or something like that. So now the jealousy gets even worse? That's what we have to short-circuit somehow, the jealousy. The anti-progressives are blocking the full awareness that we're making progress.
Meanwhile, the first Apple knowledge farm is about to open in NC. Oops, I mean server farm . . . .
*Or re-invented, if you count Edison, Armstrong, Bell Labs, etc.
Six months after the launch of Apple's iPad, HP is ready to launch its Slate 500 tablet device, which will cost $799 and is aimed at business customers.
Several news sites and blogs published details of the product launch Thursday, although the official HP Slate page at www.hp.com/go/slate had yet to go live.
According to Reuters, the HP Slate 500 will fit a full-version of Windows 7 into a 1.5 pound tablet with an 8.9-inch multi-touch screen and a 5-hour battery life. With 64GB of Flash storage, the device is $100 more than the comparable 64GB iPad. The tablet will reportedly have a 1024-by-600-pixel resolution.
The Slate 500 comes with a "digital stylus pen" and is equipped with front and rear cameras and a USB port. According to Engadget, the Slate is powered by a 1.86 GHz Intel Atom Z540 processor and 2GB of RAM.
Unlike Apple, which markets the iPad primarily to consumers, HP is stressing the Slate 500's suitability for business users. "It's really like a full-function PC, it runs Windows, it will run your office applications, it just so happens to be in a slate form factor," said Carol Hess-Nickels, director of business notebook marketing at HP.
Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer unveiled the HP Slate at CES in January. Following HP's purchase of Palm, which was primarily for its WebOS, news of the upcoming HP Slate dwindled. HP has since promised a consumer-focused WebOS-based tablet will be released next year.
During Apple's Q4 2010 conference call Monday, Apple CEO Steve Jobs told analysts that rival tablet makers were having trouble matching the iPad's pricing with comparable specs.
"Our potential competitors [in tablets] are having a tough time coming close to iPad's pricing," Jobs said. "iPad incorporates everything we've learned about building high value products. We create our own A4 chip, software, battery chemistry, enclosure, everything. This results in an incredible product at a great price. The proof will be in the pricing of our competitors' products, which will offer less for more."
For a comparison of the Slate versus the iPad, see the chart below.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
HP sucks and their quality control is horrible plus their customer service. Forget the slate it is a loser like Fiorina the former ceo.
I am told that only you can see this.
The reason I troll here is because this forum is full of kooks who go wild with crazy responses.
I used to troll Christian usenet groups, but even they are less crazy than some of the posters here. I used to troll reactionary political groups. I used to troll survivalist groups. I used to troll other types of groups with crazy people in them. Even other Apple oriented web fora, like Cult of Mac.
But none of those even begin to compare to this group. You've attracted a group of rabid nutcases here, who go nuts at the least provocation. Hell, the use of an adjective can set off HUGE amounts of foolish remarks by these guys. And every one of those foolish remarks can be dissected and shown to be foolish, which just gets someone else to say something even more foolish and/or less defensible.
You have a good crop of illogical folks who will battle to the death over something like their idiosyncratic mis-definition of a word, digging in deeper and deeper despite every goddamned dictionary in the world showing them to be wrong. When wrong, they change the subject and say something else that is also foolish.
I love it here Mel. And you have no tools to keep me away.
Tell the regulars to stop being friggin nutcases about stuff. That is your only hope.