True, but what if they made 100,000, and people didn't buy them? That would be worse. as a past manufacturer, I can say that making a minimum number is a better bet than making a lot more that may not sell. As we've read, Hp can always make more. But one thing I've read that seems odd, is Hp having to recall the personnel. Are they actually making this themselves, and not having one of their contract manufacturers do it? Why would they do that?
That still indicates an immensely bad plan that would not be typical of HP. You don't invest millions of dollars into a product like this unless you're convinced it's going to sell more than a few thousand units. You define the market, determine what is needed, and so on BEFORE you start developing and finalizing a new product.
If you thought your product was going to sell well enough to justify millions of dollars in expenses, you make more than 5,000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
You're assuming HP planned to make 5000 all along. They've been developing this for a long time, at least as long ago as last January, when Ballmer announced it. Their plans obviously changed at least once. There was a time when the Slate was rumored to have been cancelled and HP neither confirmed nor denied it. They probably finally realized that the iPad has the lion's share of the market and they couldn't compete in terms of quantity with a Windows 7 tablet. But that doesn't mean they couldn't have other reasons for completing and selling it. It could still be a learning experience for their WebOS tablet, a way to test technologies they intend to use, like the 7" multitouch screen and the cameras. Better to get the bugs out with a small production batch of an insignificant product than to find out about them only when their mass market consumer device is released. Besides, HP customers can be as loyal as Apple's. I know someone in an all-HP shop who was evaluating the iPad for an in-house app for customer field reps. He wasn't happy at all about doing it, calling the iPad a limited functionality toy and hoping for the day the Slate would be released. I'm sure pressure from people like that factored into HP's thinking.
None of that makes sense. HP isn't stupid. Let's say that they had to made a decision in April when it became clear that the iPad was a huge success. At that point, they had to decide whether to proceed with the final development costs, tooling costs, advertising costs, and management costs or drop it. There's no way they would have proceeded if they thought that they would only sell 5,000.
Your argument about trying things out makes SOME sense, but is more justification for making a few dozen prototype units than 5,000 commercial units.
Perhaps it will cater to a group of people that won't like to take 10'' devices with them, and appreciate the mobility of the Tab.
My wife is one. Trust me, she definitely dig this 7" size but she won't buy it unless it's cheaper than iPad, has as good a screen as iPad, and as fast as iPad. Galaxy Tab has none of this despite more RAM and a good CPU.
There's nothing wrong with wanting it. If 22 years ago, when Apple came out with the Macintosh Portable, at 16 pounds, with low rez B/W screen for $6,500, you asked for a laptop that weighed less than 3 pounds, with a high rez color screen, and wanted it for less than $1,000, people would have thought you were nuts.
If you said you wanted several GB RAM, and a 64 or 128 GB HDD, they would have begun the commitment papers. And if you said that it had to be an SSD with high speed wireless networking, then they would have put you away without finishing the papers.
Who knows what will be available in a few years?
Oh, I almost forgot, that $1,000 22 years ago is about $1800 today, so working back, $1,000 today would be about $560 back then. That would mean that the 11.6" Macbook Air would have had to cost $560 back when the Macintosh Portable came out.
Perhaps it will cater to a group of people that won't like to take 10'' devices with them, and appreciate the mobility of the Tab.
Based on the success of the iPad and the lack thereof of the hundreds of mobile Tabs that have been created, it would appear that 'your' group of people are rather small and have already spoken.
By the way, there are more people that would never take a computer, tablet, iPad, smartphone, etc., no matter how small, powerful or functional they are with them. For them, a pad of paper and a pencil more than suffices, but certainly we wouldn't expect any computer company, including Apple, to make them for them.
Respectfully, the first time the word "iSheep" showed up in this thread was in your post.
I never said the term had appeared in this thread. Thanks for twisting my words though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
Heck, I can't remember ever having come across it here before.
Let's see, you've been in this forum since... March this year. And you're putting ALL that experience behind that statement, are you?
So, you're implying that I made the term up. And I'm exaggerating the way the droidbois bash anyone who has an affinity for Apple products.
I think I'll just let those who've been around a bit judge for themselves. But for your education (if that's possible), here's a video of David Pogue (who's been around the scene a lot longer than a few months) doing an imitation of a typical Apple basher. The term 'sheep' is first used about ten seconds in. (Just wanted to let you know in case your attention span is as short as I suspect.)
Apple fanboyism strikes again, and who is a greater fanboy than Daniel?
Oh, man, I love you Daniel, but really, how on earth do you know that the Samsung Galaxy Tab was "quickly turned to anticipation of the next model"? Do you have the numbers that they are selling? FYI, they are already selling here in Portugal and I am still waiting for an iPad. Go figure...
I'm an Apple fan. But view the comment coming out of RIM as a potential red flag for Apple's PR machine. It doesn't have to be accurate or rational. It's the perception that matters. And there is a growing perception among even some consumers that Apple is becoming an aggressively controlling entity.
For the first time in many years, I've heard comments from a few college students that have gone Android because they are "getting tired" of everything Apple.
Yea. I even heard comments from a few college students that there because they are "getting tired" of everything Education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
RIM's iPad umbrage
RIM co chief executive Jim Balsillie fired back at Jobs's comments, defending his company's upcoming 7 inch PlayBook tablet without directly countering anything Jobs said, and instead simply dismissing his comments by saying that customers are "getting tired of being told what to think by Apple."
"We know that 7 inch tablets will actually be a big portion of the market and we know that Adobe Flash support actually matters to customers who want a real web experience," Balsillie added.
Interesting that Balsillie didn't recognize the market potential until Apple provided a solution.
More interesting, as a Canadian, it is amazing that he doesn't appreciate the fact that our Canadian service providers do not offer unlimited data plans for smartphones or for that matter via cable.
And since when does slow, bandwidth consumption, power devouring and all the other issues with Flash* have to represent real web experience?
Perhaps Balsillie has been looking too long at the world through a small screen.
It has two things the iPad needs: 1) Stylus input (not the crappy 3rd party stylus) and 2) full Windows 7 handwriting recognition that can handle multiple languages as well as mathematical notation.
WHY CAN'T THE IPAD DO THIS??? So many of use students, polyglots, and artists would kill for a slate that could do this!
Perhaps you should inform the Japanese, Chinese, Arabians, etc., that they can't write in their language on the iPad or iPhone.
You do realize that there are apps for mathematical notations?
As for students, there are some great apps, and my must have recommendations are Dragon Dictation, SoundNote and PasteBot, as well as, TabTyping if you really want to learn how to type over 90 words as minute on the iPad without connecting your Bluetooth keyboard.
Even for polygots…there are apps.
As for artists…
Perhaps you should have warned tell Kyle Lambert before he started drawing his iPad illustrations using Brushes and his finger and made a fool out of himself at the Macworld 2011 Conference.
There's nothing wrong with the third party pens for the iPad. I use one when drawing. It works just fine. The problem with Win 7 on a tablet, is that because of the poor interface Windows presents on a tablet, a stylus is required. It's not optional. That's bad, not good.
As far as handwriting recognition goes, what's the big deal here? How many people really need, or want that? Useful, but required? I doubt it.
Bullshit. In comparison to a Wacom capable stylus in conjunction with a slate that has pressure support (the Modbook is an example of what can be done...and Apple could easily have improved upon the idea) you have much less capabilities. As an artist, I like the pressure sensitivity.
If the interface is all that is the problem, then all MS needs to update the interface to allow for true tablet/multitouch/pen support. Maybe a Win 7 phone hybrid with pen support?
What is the big deal with handwriting support? How many people? MANY people I know do. Students who can write versus trying to type on a virtual keyboard. This is especially useful for people who write Kanji, Hangul, or Chinese. In addition, as a mathematics student it is MUCH easier to write an equation versus trying to type an equation.
If you think outside the consumerist box, you will see that such a device would be of great value in the educational field.
You would have a point, except that the iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch all have Chinese and Japanese handwriting input, built-in. Or did you not know that?
NO NO NO.
There is NO Japanese handwriting built into the iPhone or iPad. You have a romanji keyboard on the iPad and on the iPhone you have a romanji keyboard plus a 10-key kana keyboard. There is NO handwriting support for hiragana or katakana.
Perhaps you should inform the Japanese, Chinese, Arabians, etc., that they can't write in their language on the iPad or iPhone.
You do realize that there are apps for mathematical notations?
As for students, there are some great apps, and my must have recommendations are Dragon Dictation, SoundNote and PasteBot, as well as, TabTyping if you really want to learn how to type over 90 words as minute on the iPad without connecting your Bluetooth keyboard.
Even for polygots…there are apps.
As for artists…
Perhaps you should have warned tell Kyle Lambert before he started drawing his iPad illustrations using Brushes and his finger and made a fool out of himself at the Macworld 2011 Conference.
I would defy anybody that they could tell the difference between his iPad and Wacom Tablet works.
I am a university student (Mathematics and Japanese).
Dragon Dictation isn't 100 percent accurate and does a mediocre job. You must copy/paste what you dictated and then fix all of the problems. It is often faster to just type on the iPad keyboard.
Drawing on an iPad pretty much requires wearing a glove so as not to activate the screen or damage whatever you are drawing...and it has no pressure sensitivity so you are limited to what you can do.
I don't want to type on the iPad, as a student I would like to lean back and take notes just like I do on a notepad instead of being bent over trying to type on that little keyboard. It is also simply more natural to write a mathematical equation than to try and type it or use some hodge-podge kludge of an app. I would much rather use something built into the OS verus relying on a 3rd party to provide a capability that should have been included in the beginning.
Having said all of this, the HP has one advantage over the iPad. The HP slate is an autonomous computer. The iPad could easily be autonomous, but Jobs decided that we should all be chained to iTunes if we want to use the iPad. THIS is the main reason that I walked away from the iPad.
There is NO Japanese handwriting built into the iPhone or iPad. You have a romanji keyboard on the iPad and on the iPhone you have a romanji keyboard plus a 10-key kana keyboard. There is NO handwriting support for hiragana or katakana.
Or did you not know that?
Turn on both Japanese language AND chinese keyboard support in your iPhone. Dunno if that works on the iPad. Gives you Kanji anyway.
I too wonder if hp or Microsoft believed it would be a good idea to release it. I'm betting there's M$ in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking
You would lose your bet. MS has publicly said that tablets will be based on either the embedded version of Windows 7 or on Windows 8. But of course your view is common in the MS is evil crowd.
He's betting that Microsoft spent money to help HP with their Slate effort. The bet wasn't about whether either company thought it was a good idea.
My wife owns an iPad, which is a wonderful device (I'm waiting for v2). However, I have an app that runs under Windows and I really need it running on a tablet. I'm currently using an HP Touchsmart laptop. The extra weight and fragility of the keyboard is a problem for my particular application (mixing live sound at concerts). The HP tablet would be perfect -- especially because it's running Windows (which is needed by my app).
I think it was clear from the moment of the announcement that HP wasn't going to sell a ton of these things (nothing like the iPad), but it will fill a niche market that the iPad doesn't address. People laugh at Windows tablets as a complete failure, but they are quite useful for certain niche applications.
I kinda agree about HP quality comments made around here. Anyone who has ever used a Mac Book Pro that tries to type on an HP TouchSmart keyboard is going to immediately notice the difference in build quality.
Comments
Will the public agree a tablet that 45% the size, non IPS screen and $100 more expensive is a better option?
PS I have played with a Galaxy Tab.
What's your take on it? Is it that bad?
Perhaps it will cater to a group of people that won't like to take 10'' devices with them, and appreciate the mobility of the Tab.
True, but what if they made 100,000, and people didn't buy them? That would be worse. as a past manufacturer, I can say that making a minimum number is a better bet than making a lot more that may not sell. As we've read, Hp can always make more. But one thing I've read that seems odd, is Hp having to recall the personnel. Are they actually making this themselves, and not having one of their contract manufacturers do it? Why would they do that?
That still indicates an immensely bad plan that would not be typical of HP. You don't invest millions of dollars into a product like this unless you're convinced it's going to sell more than a few thousand units. You define the market, determine what is needed, and so on BEFORE you start developing and finalizing a new product.
If you thought your product was going to sell well enough to justify millions of dollars in expenses, you make more than 5,000.
You're assuming HP planned to make 5000 all along. They've been developing this for a long time, at least as long ago as last January, when Ballmer announced it. Their plans obviously changed at least once. There was a time when the Slate was rumored to have been cancelled and HP neither confirmed nor denied it. They probably finally realized that the iPad has the lion's share of the market and they couldn't compete in terms of quantity with a Windows 7 tablet. But that doesn't mean they couldn't have other reasons for completing and selling it. It could still be a learning experience for their WebOS tablet, a way to test technologies they intend to use, like the 7" multitouch screen and the cameras. Better to get the bugs out with a small production batch of an insignificant product than to find out about them only when their mass market consumer device is released. Besides, HP customers can be as loyal as Apple's. I know someone in an all-HP shop who was evaluating the iPad for an in-house app for customer field reps. He wasn't happy at all about doing it, calling the iPad a limited functionality toy and hoping for the day the Slate would be released. I'm sure pressure from people like that factored into HP's thinking.
None of that makes sense. HP isn't stupid. Let's say that they had to made a decision in April when it became clear that the iPad was a huge success. At that point, they had to decide whether to proceed with the final development costs, tooling costs, advertising costs, and management costs or drop it. There's no way they would have proceeded if they thought that they would only sell 5,000.
Your argument about trying things out makes SOME sense, but is more justification for making a few dozen prototype units than 5,000 commercial units.
What's your take on it? Is it that bad?
Perhaps it will cater to a group of people that won't like to take 10'' devices with them, and appreciate the mobility of the Tab.
My wife is one. Trust me, she definitely dig this 7" size but she won't buy it unless it's cheaper than iPad, has as good a screen as iPad, and as fast as iPad. Galaxy Tab has none of this despite more RAM and a good CPU.
There's nothing wrong with wanting it. If 22 years ago, when Apple came out with the Macintosh Portable, at 16 pounds, with low rez B/W screen for $6,500, you asked for a laptop that weighed less than 3 pounds, with a high rez color screen, and wanted it for less than $1,000, people would have thought you were nuts.
If you said you wanted several GB RAM, and a 64 or 128 GB HDD, they would have begun the commitment papers. And if you said that it had to be an SSD with high speed wireless networking, then they would have put you away without finishing the papers.
Who knows what will be available in a few years?
Oh, I almost forgot, that $1,000 22 years ago is about $1800 today, so working back, $1,000 today would be about $560 back then. That would mean that the 11.6" Macbook Air would have had to cost $560 back when the Macintosh Portable came out.
Perhaps Lukeskymac, like many of us, are a little tired of zunx repeated 'what Apple needs' list. http://forums.appleinsider.com/searc...earchid=371266
For example, I see that Zunx has discontinued his repeated call for us to petition, i.e.,
Sign the petition for the MacBook Air mini:
http://macbookair10.net
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...01#post1733401
What's your take on it? Is it that bad?
Perhaps it will cater to a group of people that won't like to take 10'' devices with them, and appreciate the mobility of the Tab.
Based on the success of the iPad and the lack thereof of the hundreds of mobile Tabs that have been created, it would appear that 'your' group of people are rather small and have already spoken.
By the way, there are more people that would never take a computer, tablet, iPad, smartphone, etc., no matter how small, powerful or functional they are with them. For them, a pad of paper and a pencil more than suffices, but certainly we wouldn't expect any computer company, including Apple, to make them for them.
Respectfully, the first time the word "iSheep" showed up in this thread was in your post.
I never said the term had appeared in this thread. Thanks for twisting my words though.
Heck, I can't remember ever having come across it here before.
Let's see, you've been in this forum since... March this year. And you're putting ALL that experience behind that statement, are you?
So, you're implying that I made the term up. And I'm exaggerating the way the droidbois bash anyone who has an affinity for Apple products.
I think I'll just let those who've been around a bit judge for themselves. But for your education (if that's possible), here's a video of David Pogue (who's been around the scene a lot longer than a few months) doing an imitation of a typical Apple basher. The term 'sheep' is first used about ten seconds in. (Just wanted to let you know in case your attention span is as short as I suspect.)
LESS THAN 10,000 HUMANS WANT ONE OF THESE THINGS!!!
That's the whole story. It is fail in any language.
Apple fanboyism strikes again, and who is a greater fanboy than Daniel?
Oh, man, I love you Daniel, but really, how on earth do you know that the Samsung Galaxy Tab was "quickly turned to anticipation of the next model"? Do you have the numbers that they are selling? FYI, they are already selling here in Portugal and I am still waiting for an iPad. Go figure...
Unfounded Non-Apple Slate Optimism strikes again...
Here's one for you, Luis:
"Toshiba Folio 100 Taken off Shelves in UK"
This is JooJoo-grade!
I'm an Apple fan. But view the comment coming out of RIM as a potential red flag for Apple's PR machine. It doesn't have to be accurate or rational. It's the perception that matters. And there is a growing perception among even some consumers that Apple is becoming an aggressively controlling entity.
For the first time in many years, I've heard comments from a few college students that have gone Android because they are "getting tired" of everything Apple.
Yea. I even heard comments from a few college students that there because they are "getting tired" of everything Education.
RIM's iPad umbrage
RIM co chief executive Jim Balsillie fired back at Jobs's comments, defending his company's upcoming 7 inch PlayBook tablet without directly countering anything Jobs said, and instead simply dismissing his comments by saying that customers are "getting tired of being told what to think by Apple."
"We know that 7 inch tablets will actually be a big portion of the market and we know that Adobe Flash support actually matters to customers who want a real web experience," Balsillie added.
Interesting that Balsillie didn't recognize the market potential until Apple provided a solution.
More interesting, as a Canadian, it is amazing that he doesn't appreciate the fact that our Canadian service providers do not offer unlimited data plans for smartphones or for that matter via cable.
And since when does slow, bandwidth consumption, power devouring and all the other issues with Flash* have to represent real web experience?
Perhaps Balsillie has been looking too long at the world through a small screen.
*http://www.antezeta.com/blog/flash-problems
It has two things the iPad needs: 1) Stylus input (not the crappy 3rd party stylus) and 2) full Windows 7 handwriting recognition that can handle multiple languages as well as mathematical notation.
WHY CAN'T THE IPAD DO THIS??? So many of use students, polyglots, and artists would kill for a slate that could do this!
Perhaps you should inform the Japanese, Chinese, Arabians, etc., that they can't write in their language on the iPad or iPhone.
You do realize that there are apps for mathematical notations?
As for students, there are some great apps, and my must have recommendations are Dragon Dictation, SoundNote and PasteBot, as well as, TabTyping if you really want to learn how to type over 90 words as minute on the iPad without connecting your Bluetooth keyboard.
Even for polygots…there are apps.
As for artists…
Perhaps you should have warned tell Kyle Lambert before he started drawing his iPad illustrations using Brushes and his finger and made a fool out of himself at the Macworld 2011 Conference.
P.S. Don't forget to scroll. http://kyle-lambert.blogspot.com/
I would defy anybody that they could tell the difference between his iPad and Wacom Tablet works.
There's nothing wrong with the third party pens for the iPad. I use one when drawing. It works just fine. The problem with Win 7 on a tablet, is that because of the poor interface Windows presents on a tablet, a stylus is required. It's not optional. That's bad, not good.
As far as handwriting recognition goes, what's the big deal here? How many people really need, or want that? Useful, but required? I doubt it.
Bullshit. In comparison to a Wacom capable stylus in conjunction with a slate that has pressure support (the Modbook is an example of what can be done...and Apple could easily have improved upon the idea) you have much less capabilities. As an artist, I like the pressure sensitivity.
If the interface is all that is the problem, then all MS needs to update the interface to allow for true tablet/multitouch/pen support. Maybe a Win 7 phone hybrid with pen support?
What is the big deal with handwriting support? How many people? MANY people I know do. Students who can write versus trying to type on a virtual keyboard. This is especially useful for people who write Kanji, Hangul, or Chinese. In addition, as a mathematics student it is MUCH easier to write an equation versus trying to type an equation.
If you think outside the consumerist box, you will see that such a device would be of great value in the educational field.
You would have a point, except that the iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch all have Chinese and Japanese handwriting input, built-in. Or did you not know that?
NO NO NO.
There is NO Japanese handwriting built into the iPhone or iPad. You have a romanji keyboard on the iPad and on the iPhone you have a romanji keyboard plus a 10-key kana keyboard. There is NO handwriting support for hiragana or katakana.
Or did you not know that?
Perhaps you should inform the Japanese, Chinese, Arabians, etc., that they can't write in their language on the iPad or iPhone.
You do realize that there are apps for mathematical notations?
As for students, there are some great apps, and my must have recommendations are Dragon Dictation, SoundNote and PasteBot, as well as, TabTyping if you really want to learn how to type over 90 words as minute on the iPad without connecting your Bluetooth keyboard.
Even for polygots…there are apps.
As for artists…
Perhaps you should have warned tell Kyle Lambert before he started drawing his iPad illustrations using Brushes and his finger and made a fool out of himself at the Macworld 2011 Conference.
P.S. Don't forget to scroll. http://kyle-lambert.blogspot.com/
I would defy anybody that they could tell the difference between his iPad and Wacom Tablet works.
I am a university student (Mathematics and Japanese).
Dragon Dictation isn't 100 percent accurate and does a mediocre job. You must copy/paste what you dictated and then fix all of the problems. It is often faster to just type on the iPad keyboard.
Drawing on an iPad pretty much requires wearing a glove so as not to activate the screen or damage whatever you are drawing...and it has no pressure sensitivity so you are limited to what you can do.
I don't want to type on the iPad, as a student I would like to lean back and take notes just like I do on a notepad instead of being bent over trying to type on that little keyboard. It is also simply more natural to write a mathematical equation than to try and type it or use some hodge-podge kludge of an app. I would much rather use something built into the OS verus relying on a 3rd party to provide a capability that should have been included in the beginning.
Having said all of this, the HP has one advantage over the iPad. The HP slate is an autonomous computer. The iPad could easily be autonomous, but Jobs decided that we should all be chained to iTunes if we want to use the iPad. THIS is the main reason that I walked away from the iPad.
NO NO NO.
There is NO Japanese handwriting built into the iPhone or iPad. You have a romanji keyboard on the iPad and on the iPhone you have a romanji keyboard plus a 10-key kana keyboard. There is NO handwriting support for hiragana or katakana.
Or did you not know that?
Turn on both Japanese language AND chinese keyboard support in your iPhone. Dunno if that works on the iPad. Gives you Kanji anyway.
I too wonder if hp or Microsoft believed it would be a good idea to release it. I'm betting there's M$ in it.
You would lose your bet. MS has publicly said that tablets will be based on either the embedded version of Windows 7 or on Windows 8. But of course your view is common in the MS is evil crowd.
He's betting that Microsoft spent money to help HP with their Slate effort. The bet wasn't about whether either company thought it was a good idea.
My wife owns an iPad, which is a wonderful device (I'm waiting for v2). However, I have an app that runs under Windows and I really need it running on a tablet. I'm currently using an HP Touchsmart laptop. The extra weight and fragility of the keyboard is a problem for my particular application (mixing live sound at concerts). The HP tablet would be perfect -- especially because it's running Windows (which is needed by my app).
I think it was clear from the moment of the announcement that HP wasn't going to sell a ton of these things (nothing like the iPad), but it will fill a niche market that the iPad doesn't address. People laugh at Windows tablets as a complete failure, but they are quite useful for certain niche applications.
I kinda agree about HP quality comments made around here. Anyone who has ever used a Mac Book Pro that tries to type on an HP TouchSmart keyboard is going to immediately notice the difference in build quality.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde