I am a university student (Mathematics and Japanese).
Dragon Dictation isn't 100 percent accurate and does a mediocre job. You must copy/paste what you dictated and then fix all of the problems. It is often faster to just type on the iPad keyboard.
Drawing on an iPad pretty much requires wearing a glove so as not to activate the screen or damage whatever you are drawing...and it has no pressure sensitivity so you are limited to what you can do.
I don't want to type on the iPad, as a student I would like to lean back and take notes just like I do on a notepad instead of being bent over trying to type on that little keyboard. It is also simply more natural to write a mathematical equation than to try and type it or use some hodge-podge kludge of an app. I would much rather use something built into the OS verus relying on a 3rd party to provide a capability that should have been included in the beginning.
Having said all of this, the HP has one advantage over the iPad. The HP slate is an autonomous computer. The iPad could easily be autonomous, but Jobs decided that we should all be chained to iTunes if we want to use the iPad. THIS is the main reason that I walked away from the iPad.
So you don't have an iPad?
So you haven't used Brushes? Perhaps you should tell Kyle that you have to wear a glove. Perhaps you should watch Lambert's video. Or are you better than he is?
Dragon Diction on the iPhone or iPad is amazing. Sure you have to proofread, but if you are trying to tell me that you don't don't have to when you handwrite your notes on your PC is bullshit.
Your sense of entitlement amazes me. Like your PC does everything that an iPad can't? That is you use a hand-recognition software on your PC for taking notes and doing math? You don't type on it? The HP slate eliminates relying on 3rd party apps that the iPad iOS should have included in the beginning? Bull.
So you don't have an iPad, because of iTunes? Talk about be self-centered. You are obviously a Mac hater. Perhaps you should be participating on another, i.e., PC site. After all, it seems to me that everything you want would be available there.
Guess you won't be watching tomorrows event. It won't bother me.
By the way, you told us you bought a ModBook. What happened to it and your ThinkPad X61 Tablet PC? Was that bull too?
How on Earth criticizing the making-shit-up-attitude from certain people gets confused by "non-apple slate optimism" is beyond me. I guess it's a fanboyism phenomena.
My wife owns an iPad, which is a wonderful device (I'm waiting for v2). However, I have an app that runs under Windows and I really need it running on a tablet.
Me too... waiting for iPad v2. (I will probably buy two or three at once.)
I'm dubious about "full Windows" on a tablet... ever. Either performance will suffer, or power consumption will take a dive. To succeed, they'll need a Windows Slate 7, or something like that. The pipe dream of the full Windows stack is just that.
Microsoft has the right approach in the mobile space by stringently controlling the hardware on which WP7 will run. They'll need to do the same with slates if they hope to make a dent in the tablet space.
Turn on both Japanese language AND chinese keyboard support in your iPhone. Dunno if that works on the iPad. Gives you Kanji anyway.
NO NO NO.
It gives you limited access to certain kanji that are shared between the Japanese and Chinese. It also does nothing to support either hiragana or katakana. To use this kludge you would need to have access to multiple keyboards.
PLUS...have you ever tried to write a 13-stroke kanji on a multi-touch sensitive keyboard? It ISN'T pretty.
So you haven't used Brushes? Perhaps you should tell Kyle that you have to wear a glove. Perhaps you should watch Lambert's video. Or are you better than he is?
Dragon Diction on the iPhone or iPad is amazing. Sure you have to proofread, but if you are trying to tell me that you don't don't have to when you handwrite your notes on your PC is bullshit.
Your sense of entitlement amazes me. Like your PC does everything that an iPad can't? That is you use a hand-recognition software on your PC for taking notes and doing math? You don't type on it? The HP slate eliminates relying on 3rd party apps that the iPad iOS should have included in the beginning? Bull.
So you don't have an iPad, because of iTunes? Talk about be self-centered. You are obviously a Mac hater. Perhaps you should be participating on another, i.e., PC site. After all, it seems to me that everything you want would be available there.
Guess you won't be watching tomorrows event. It won't bother me.
By the way, you told us you bought a ModBook. What happened to it and your ThinkPad X61 Tablet PC? Was that bull too?
You are right I don't currently own an iPad, but I have used them extensively. Sorry I have used a drawing program on the iPad and I like to lay my hand on the screen when drawing. Just because one person can do it doesn't mean most people like to draw with their hand in the air.
I have have used Vista and now Win 7 handwriting recognition and it is MUCH faster and accurate than using Dragon Dictation. I have used both...Have you?
Entitlement? What the heck are you talking about? I am speaking from experience. You obviously are speaking based on hearsay and reviews. Unless you have actually compared what I am referring to you are clueless. Try and use the Win 7 handwriting recognition. Also try using a Mod book and you will see two devices/software that are much better at doing specific tasks. Tasks that could have been handled by the iPad if Jobs hadn't seen fit to hamstring the device.
Mac hater? Total BS. I have used Apple products since 1979. I am typing this on my Mac Mini as I speak.
Oh...the event. I am sure that Apple will save the world with that event. How about allowing people to fully rent all of the TV shows available on iTunes before releasing the new Apple TV? Currently the Apple TV hardly touches the full library of TV shows that are on iTunes.
So I am not allowed to own several devices over the past few years? So is there something in my iTunes small print that says I cannot own a Lenovo convertible tablet, a Modbook, a Mac Mini, an iPhone 3GS x2, an iPhone 4, a Macbook unibody, etc? If so, I guess I better run to eBay and sell of my non-compliant devices.
Sorry if I offended any decent people here with my choice of 4-letter expletives (REMOVED after I regained my sanity), but I am tired of the mindless ramblings of Apple fanboys who cannot see that Apple has become the same monolithic company that MS is...nor can they see that everything Apple does is not perfect. Apple does make nice machines and a nice OS. I prefer the OS at home, but it isn't perfect...but then neither is MS and Win 7.
Please don't feel like you need to apologize. I enjoy reading your posts as much as anyone's (actually more because you both are usually coherent and not spouting the party line). I like to read all points of view in these threads, whether I agree with them or not. "Minds are like parachutes; they work only if they're open."
they seriously expected to sell only 5,000 of these?
why bother?
Who said 'sell'? They wanted to produce 5000. But for instance New Scientist ran a feature where people could vote for the best science idea at this time and have a chance ti win .... an HP Slate. How many of these, I wonder were planned to be used as giveaways by HP's marketing
I'd be interested to see the source of all of this (HP's statement) somewhere
Please don't feel like you need to apologize. I enjoy reading your posts as much as anyone's (actually more because you both are usually coherent and not spouting the party line). I like to read all points of view in these threads, whether I agree with them or not. "Minds are like parachutes; they work only if they're open."
While my opinion is stands...the choice of language was unnecessary. I was just hit with some very disturbing news just before writing that post. My apologies for the expletives. I will remove them now.
How on Earth criticizing the making-shit-up-attitude from certain people gets confused by "non-apple slate optimism" is beyond me. I guess it's a fanboyism phenomena.
Luis, here's the paragraph in full that you quoted from and commented on, prompting my comment:
The five inch Dell Streak and 7 inch Samsung Galaxy Tab have both hit the market with excitement that has quickly turned to anticipation of the next model expected to arrive, much like the series of devices held up as iPod-killers since 2002, and the onslaught of phones designated at iPhone-killers since 2007
"Optimism" is quite in tune with "excitement" and "anticipation". And it obviously goes beyond the Tab. Daniel mentions the streak, and I referenced a factual article on another tablet that has since been withdrawn because it didn't measure up (excuse me, I forget the name of it already). They arrive to a fanfare, then quietly slip away when they don't live up to the hype; so people turn their expectations to the next tablet to be announced. Sounds like a face value reading of Dan's words are are pretty fair picture of the situation.
I am not mistaking your "criticism" for "non-apple slate optimism" -- I am referencing an unwarranted optimism everywhere for all these other tablets, just as you apparently spot "fanboyism" behind every bush on this site. This delerious optimism is striking every time another slate comes out and 10,000 or so sales are hailed as a great success that shouldn't be criticised, while Apple is denigrated for selling 4.7 million instead of the "expected" 4.9, or for not having enough ready for an unanticipated record launch in the history of consumer electronics. There really are not that many fanboys around. What, did we all buy 1083 ipads each?
No, Dan has quite a nice literary style, and any hyperbole only makes his points. Anyway, he is reporting on a number from a source. If the real number turns out to be 19,000 I am sure he will update it.
I don't know what the true figures are for the Tab, and I don't take Dan's source's word for it either. But I don't care if it was 9000 or 90,000. The Tab has obviously fallen flat (excuse the pun) by any measure, and, yes, people have to make do with anticipating the next overhyped, lacklustre offering by manufacturers that don't get it.
If you don't get the connections and get what all the other non-apple tablets have in common, well, it's beyond me. Do try to keep up.
Fanboyism has nothing to do with it -- ipads work, and the others? Not so much. Bit of a fizzle, I'd say.
It gives you limited access to certain kanji that are shared between the Japanese and Chinese. It also does nothing to support either hiragana or katakana. To use this kludge you would need to have access to multiple keyboards.
PLUS...have you ever tried to write a 13-stroke kanji on a multi-touch sensitive keyboard? It ISN'T pretty.
I did say kanji...so hiragana and katakana probably isn't too hard for Apple to do someday.
I guess the Chinese matter more to Apple than the Japanese...and yes, I have entered 13-stroke characters on the iPhone. Works pretty well actually...not that I know many Chinese words.
There is NO Japanese handwriting built into the iPhone or iPad. You have a romanji keyboard on the iPad and on the iPhone you have a romanji keyboard plus a 10-key kana keyboard. There is NO handwriting support for hiragana or katakana.
Or did you not know that?
I'm not talking about katakana and hiragana, which are input easily enough with a keyboard. I'm talking about Kanji.
I'm not talking about katakana and hiragana, which are input easily enough with a keyboard. I'm talking about Kanji.
There is still no kanji support, only chinese support. Not all of the chinese characters are used vice versa. Also, trying to write a 12 stroke kanji and then switching to a 10 key to do a single kana and switching back for another kanji is NOT acceptable, nor easy to use.
There is still no kanji support, only chinese support. Not all of the chinese characters are used vice versa. Also, trying to write a 12 stroke kanji and then switching to a 10 key to do a single kana and switching back for another kanji is NOT acceptable, nor easy to use.
Lol wut? This is like complaining you have to hit the .?123 key to type numbers or the shift key to type in the a cap. If you only have 2 keyboards it's a button. If you have 3 keyboards you cycle through 2 button clicks.
If you have a particularly thick case I can see it being mildly annoying but jeez.
What is the big deal with handwriting support? How many people? MANY people I know do. Students who can write versus trying to type on a virtual keyboard. This is especially useful for people who write Kanji, Hangul, or Chinese. In addition, as a mathematics student it is MUCH easier to write an equation versus trying to type an equation.
If you think outside the consumerist box, you will see that such a device would be of great value in the educational field.
A good mathematician will think and type in RPN faster than writing by hand -- which can be incrementally resolved with a very simple program (whether typed or handwritten).
A good mathematician will think and type in RPN faster than writing by hand -- which can be incrementally resolved with a very simple program (whether typed or handwritten).
Thanks for that, Dick! Actually *any* person who works with numbers will prefer the RPN system. Note that the HP 12C is over 25 years old and still being sold to the accounting profession.
Of course that was designed by the original HP, not the current outfit that lays claim to the name & logo of HP. Bill & Dave are surely spinning in their graves.
Comments
I am a university student (Mathematics and Japanese).
Dragon Dictation isn't 100 percent accurate and does a mediocre job. You must copy/paste what you dictated and then fix all of the problems. It is often faster to just type on the iPad keyboard.
Drawing on an iPad pretty much requires wearing a glove so as not to activate the screen or damage whatever you are drawing...and it has no pressure sensitivity so you are limited to what you can do.
I don't want to type on the iPad, as a student I would like to lean back and take notes just like I do on a notepad instead of being bent over trying to type on that little keyboard. It is also simply more natural to write a mathematical equation than to try and type it or use some hodge-podge kludge of an app. I would much rather use something built into the OS verus relying on a 3rd party to provide a capability that should have been included in the beginning.
Having said all of this, the HP has one advantage over the iPad. The HP slate is an autonomous computer. The iPad could easily be autonomous, but Jobs decided that we should all be chained to iTunes if we want to use the iPad. THIS is the main reason that I walked away from the iPad.
So you don't have an iPad?
So you haven't used Brushes? Perhaps you should tell Kyle that you have to wear a glove. Perhaps you should watch Lambert's video. Or are you better than he is?
Dragon Diction on the iPhone or iPad is amazing. Sure you have to proofread, but if you are trying to tell me that you don't don't have to when you handwrite your notes on your PC is bullshit.
Your sense of entitlement amazes me. Like your PC does everything that an iPad can't? That is you use a hand-recognition software on your PC for taking notes and doing math? You don't type on it? The HP slate eliminates relying on 3rd party apps that the iPad iOS should have included in the beginning? Bull.
So you don't have an iPad, because of iTunes? Talk about be self-centered. You are obviously a Mac hater. Perhaps you should be participating on another, i.e., PC site. After all, it seems to me that everything you want would be available there.
Guess you won't be watching tomorrows event. It won't bother me.
By the way, you told us you bought a ModBook. What happened to it and your ThinkPad X61 Tablet PC? Was that bull too?
Unfounded Non-Apple Slate Optimism strikes again...
Here's one for you, Luis:
"Toshiba Folio 100 Taken off Shelves in UK"
How on Earth criticizing the making-shit-up-attitude from certain people gets confused by "non-apple slate optimism" is beyond me. I guess it's a fanboyism phenomena.
I really want one of these.
My wife owns an iPad, which is a wonderful device (I'm waiting for v2). However, I have an app that runs under Windows and I really need it running on a tablet.
Me too... waiting for iPad v2. (I will probably buy two or three at once.)
I'm dubious about "full Windows" on a tablet... ever. Either performance will suffer, or power consumption will take a dive. To succeed, they'll need a Windows Slate 7, or something like that. The pipe dream of the full Windows stack is just that.
Microsoft has the right approach in the mobile space by stringently controlling the hardware on which WP7 will run. They'll need to do the same with slates if they hope to make a dent in the tablet space.
Turn on both Japanese language AND chinese keyboard support in your iPhone. Dunno if that works on the iPad. Gives you Kanji anyway.
NO NO NO.
It gives you limited access to certain kanji that are shared between the Japanese and Chinese. It also does nothing to support either hiragana or katakana. To use this kludge you would need to have access to multiple keyboards.
PLUS...have you ever tried to write a 13-stroke kanji on a multi-touch sensitive keyboard? It ISN'T pretty.
So you don't have an iPad?
So you haven't used Brushes? Perhaps you should tell Kyle that you have to wear a glove. Perhaps you should watch Lambert's video. Or are you better than he is?
Dragon Diction on the iPhone or iPad is amazing. Sure you have to proofread, but if you are trying to tell me that you don't don't have to when you handwrite your notes on your PC is bullshit.
Your sense of entitlement amazes me. Like your PC does everything that an iPad can't? That is you use a hand-recognition software on your PC for taking notes and doing math? You don't type on it? The HP slate eliminates relying on 3rd party apps that the iPad iOS should have included in the beginning? Bull.
So you don't have an iPad, because of iTunes? Talk about be self-centered. You are obviously a Mac hater. Perhaps you should be participating on another, i.e., PC site. After all, it seems to me that everything you want would be available there.
Guess you won't be watching tomorrows event. It won't bother me.
By the way, you told us you bought a ModBook. What happened to it and your ThinkPad X61 Tablet PC? Was that bull too?
You are right I don't currently own an iPad, but I have used them extensively. Sorry I have used a drawing program on the iPad and I like to lay my hand on the screen when drawing. Just because one person can do it doesn't mean most people like to draw with their hand in the air.
I have have used Vista and now Win 7 handwriting recognition and it is MUCH faster and accurate than using Dragon Dictation. I have used both...Have you?
Entitlement? What the heck are you talking about? I am speaking from experience. You obviously are speaking based on hearsay and reviews. Unless you have actually compared what I am referring to you are clueless. Try and use the Win 7 handwriting recognition. Also try using a Mod book and you will see two devices/software that are much better at doing specific tasks. Tasks that could have been handled by the iPad if Jobs hadn't seen fit to hamstring the device.
Mac hater? Total BS. I have used Apple products since 1979. I am typing this on my Mac Mini as I speak.
Oh...the event. I am sure that Apple will save the world with that event. How about allowing people to fully rent all of the TV shows available on iTunes before releasing the new Apple TV? Currently the Apple TV hardly touches the full library of TV shows that are on iTunes.
So I am not allowed to own several devices over the past few years? So is there something in my iTunes small print that says I cannot own a Lenovo convertible tablet, a Modbook, a Mac Mini, an iPhone 3GS x2, an iPhone 4, a Macbook unibody, etc? If so, I guess I better run to eBay and sell of my non-compliant devices.
Sorry if I offended any decent people here with my choice of 4-letter expletives (REMOVED after I regained my sanity), but I am tired of the mindless ramblings of Apple fanboys who cannot see that Apple has become the same monolithic company that MS is...nor can they see that everything Apple does is not perfect. Apple does make nice machines and a nice OS. I prefer the OS at home, but it isn't perfect...but then neither is MS and Win 7.
@ LuisDias
Please don't feel like you need to apologize. I enjoy reading your posts as much as anyone's (actually more because you both are usually coherent and not spouting the party line). I like to read all points of view in these threads, whether I agree with them or not. "Minds are like parachutes; they work only if they're open."
Hey, camera guy, try to keep up! How many times do I have to say it?
LESS THAN 10,000 HUMANS WANT ONE OF THESE THINGS!!!
That's the whole story. It is fail in any language.
Those are the 10,000 idiots out of the millions of much smarter humans
they seriously expected to sell only 5,000 of these?
why bother?
Who said 'sell'? They wanted to produce 5000. But for instance New Scientist ran a feature where people could vote for the best science idea at this time and have a chance ti win .... an HP Slate. How many of these, I wonder were planned to be used as giveaways by HP's marketing
I'd be interested to see the source of all of this (HP's statement) somewhere
@ lamewing
@ LuisDias
Please don't feel like you need to apologize. I enjoy reading your posts as much as anyone's (actually more because you both are usually coherent and not spouting the party line). I like to read all points of view in these threads, whether I agree with them or not. "Minds are like parachutes; they work only if they're open."
While my opinion is stands...the choice of language was unnecessary. I was just hit with some very disturbing news just before writing that post. My apologies for the expletives. I will remove them now.
How on Earth criticizing the making-shit-up-attitude from certain people gets confused by "non-apple slate optimism" is beyond me. I guess it's a fanboyism phenomena.
Luis, here's the paragraph in full that you quoted from and commented on, prompting my comment:
The five inch Dell Streak and 7 inch Samsung Galaxy Tab have both hit the market with excitement that has quickly turned to anticipation of the next model expected to arrive, much like the series of devices held up as iPod-killers since 2002, and the onslaught of phones designated at iPhone-killers since 2007
"Optimism" is quite in tune with "excitement" and "anticipation". And it obviously goes beyond the Tab. Daniel mentions the streak, and I referenced a factual article on another tablet that has since been withdrawn because it didn't measure up (excuse me, I forget the name of it already). They arrive to a fanfare, then quietly slip away when they don't live up to the hype; so people turn their expectations to the next tablet to be announced. Sounds like a face value reading of Dan's words are are pretty fair picture of the situation.
I am not mistaking your "criticism" for "non-apple slate optimism" -- I am referencing an unwarranted optimism everywhere for all these other tablets, just as you apparently spot "fanboyism" behind every bush on this site. This delerious optimism is striking every time another slate comes out and 10,000 or so sales are hailed as a great success that shouldn't be criticised, while Apple is denigrated for selling 4.7 million instead of the "expected" 4.9, or for not having enough ready for an unanticipated record launch in the history of consumer electronics. There really are not that many fanboys around. What, did we all buy 1083 ipads each?
No, Dan has quite a nice literary style, and any hyperbole only makes his points. Anyway, he is reporting on a number from a source. If the real number turns out to be 19,000 I am sure he will update it.
I don't know what the true figures are for the Tab, and I don't take Dan's source's word for it either. But I don't care if it was 9000 or 90,000. The Tab has obviously fallen flat (excuse the pun) by any measure, and, yes, people have to make do with anticipating the next overhyped, lacklustre offering by manufacturers that don't get it.
If you don't get the connections and get what all the other non-apple tablets have in common, well, it's beyond me. Do try to keep up.
Fanboyism has nothing to do with it -- ipads work, and the others? Not so much. Bit of a fizzle, I'd say.
NO NO NO.
It gives you limited access to certain kanji that are shared between the Japanese and Chinese. It also does nothing to support either hiragana or katakana. To use this kludge you would need to have access to multiple keyboards.
PLUS...have you ever tried to write a 13-stroke kanji on a multi-touch sensitive keyboard? It ISN'T pretty.
I did say kanji...so hiragana and katakana probably isn't too hard for Apple to do someday.
I guess the Chinese matter more to Apple than the Japanese...and yes, I have entered 13-stroke characters on the iPhone. Works pretty well actually...not that I know many Chinese words.
NO NO NO.
There is NO Japanese handwriting built into the iPhone or iPad. You have a romanji keyboard on the iPad and on the iPhone you have a romanji keyboard plus a 10-key kana keyboard. There is NO handwriting support for hiragana or katakana.
Or did you not know that?
I'm not talking about katakana and hiragana, which are input easily enough with a keyboard. I'm talking about Kanji.
I'm not talking about katakana and hiragana, which are input easily enough with a keyboard. I'm talking about Kanji.
There is still no kanji support, only chinese support. Not all of the chinese characters are used vice versa. Also, trying to write a 12 stroke kanji and then switching to a 10 key to do a single kana and switching back for another kanji is NOT acceptable, nor easy to use.
There is still no kanji support, only chinese support. Not all of the chinese characters are used vice versa. Also, trying to write a 12 stroke kanji and then switching to a 10 key to do a single kana and switching back for another kanji is NOT acceptable, nor easy to use.
Lol wut? This is like complaining you have to hit the .?123 key to type numbers or the shift key to type in the a cap. If you only have 2 keyboards it's a button. If you have 3 keyboards you cycle through 2 button clicks.
If you have a particularly thick case I can see it being mildly annoying but jeez.
What is the big deal with handwriting support? How many people? MANY people I know do. Students who can write versus trying to type on a virtual keyboard. This is especially useful for people who write Kanji, Hangul, or Chinese. In addition, as a mathematics student it is MUCH easier to write an equation versus trying to type an equation.
If you think outside the consumerist box, you will see that such a device would be of great value in the educational field.
A good mathematician will think and type in RPN faster than writing by hand -- which can be incrementally resolved with a very simple program (whether typed or handwritten).
.
A good mathematician will think and type in RPN faster than writing by hand -- which can be incrementally resolved with a very simple program (whether typed or handwritten).
Thanks for that, Dick! Actually *any* person who works with numbers will prefer the RPN system. Note that the HP 12C is over 25 years old and still being sold to the accounting profession.
Of course that was designed by the original HP, not the current outfit that lays claim to the name & logo of HP. Bill & Dave are surely spinning in their graves.