Yep, everyone else is supposed to magically just come up with a device despite Apple growing thier products from what was aguably a limited product initially compared to todays Apple products.
It's Okay, I know I am not allowed to say anything that is not glowing of Apple or negative of anyone else. RIM and others are not doing anything different that what Apple did, they put out a product, determined true interest and then went with expanding it if applicable. Pretty normal practice in all segments over the entire planet for many, many years...
I agree with what you're saying. But times HAVE changed. expectations are higher than they were before. If all we had was MS tablets, would you think the UI worked well? If something else comes along that works much better, would that MS model you thought was fine still be fine?
When RIM comes out with a tablet that has a new OS, with no apps, and no way to get on to the internet when away from a WiFi network other than to use a Blackberry, do you really think that can compete?
With 56% of current BB users saying that their next phone will be something OTHER that a BB, do you think this will be popular?
RIM is positioning it as a business product, because it's not looking interesting to most people who expect a lot of interesting lifestyle apps of all sorts. WP7 is having problems because they're late to the game, and have almost no apps (they also don't have HTML 5, or Flash either).
Right now, it's Android and iOS. That's where the interest lies. So we see Android with about 130,000 apps, and iOS with over 300,000 apps. But we also see the iPad as having over 45,000 apps designed for it. How is RIM going to compete with that? They've also come out with "6" on their phones, which is different that what they will have for this. So they're not getting any leverage from having 10,000 phone apps.
Do you really think I'm just saying it's got problems out of nowhere? There's nothing wrong with thinking that Apple's products have problems, aren't the best, or aren't going to do well. I say that about some of their stuff myself. But, you've got to give some good reasons for saying things. So far, you haven't. Speaking in generalities doesn't help. You have to give specific reasons, and expect to defend them logically. Falling back on the old canard that you can't say something bad about an Apple product is not a useful argument. In fact, it's not an argument at all. All it is is a way of you saying that you have no argument.
The point you made bout having the iPad to compare it to is an important one. We often go through life thinking something is great, or horrible because we have nothing to compare it to. Many people will be buying one or the other without ever having tried anything else. If it's slow, well, then maybe that's the way it has to be.
That's where Apple's extensive distribution deals will come in handy. With iPads in Best Buys, Targets, Walmarts and Apple Stores, there can't be many people in the US who won't get a chance to look at one if they want to.
This is very different from the iPhone situation, where Android phones are being flogged hard at multiple outlets and functioning iPhones are limited to Apple and AT&T stores. You go into a Verizon store looking for a phone, you have little chance of emerging without an Android handset-- and odds are you've never had an iPhone in your hand.
You go looking for a tablet and odds are you're going to run into an iPad-- and get a good idea of what that's like, before ever even encountering an Android device. I suspect that's going to (and already is) making a huge difference in how people think about "tablets" as a category and the iPad in particular. Outside of the iPod, I can't think of an Apple product that has enjoyed this kind of ubiquity coupled to extremely competitive pricing. It's a chance to see if Apple's design ideas really are compelling, without having to factor in pricing, availability or familiarity.
If you get a PlayBook, the only way to connect to the internet is with cellular?
WTF?
I smell massive bomb.
i think it has WiFi and will tether to Blackberries that have a certain OS version number, thus allowing you to use your BB phone as a hub for your PlayBook, if necessary.
i think it has WiFi and will tether to Blackberries that have a certain OS version number, thus allowing you to use your BB phone as a hub for your PlayBook, if necessary.
The cellular plus GPS pricing isn?t as extreme as people think it is. I think the Samsung Galaxy fluctuates between $100 and $150 for that addition. I recall paying around $300 only a few years ago for a 3G cellular USB for Mac from AT&T.
On top of that, it?s not the cost of the components, but other costs that drive it up, as you are well aware And we have to look at it as a premium feature that any smart company will try to make a higher profit on since they will sell less of because they are premium options. We can look at it from the entry level iPad?s price but it?s possible Apple has decided to take a much profit margin specifically to draw customers in. This isn?t only common, but good business.
On an unrelated matter, the TJ Maxx/Marshalls pricing is confusing. First of all, I thought official retailers had contracts that regulated how much below retail they could sell items for. Secondly, why so low when even at, say, $480 I think they would have sold out about as quickly.
Ok, two things. The first is that prices come down over time, and by volume. If Apple ordered a certain amount it would cost so much, but if they can now order four times as many, it will cost less. There are other costs as well, as you say, but it's possible that Apple needs its cost up front as many manufacturers do, and can then lower that price upon sell-through.
As far as the TJ Maxx pricing issue goes, Jobs said that they weren't an authorized dealer. Loss leader. This will bring them into the store where, hopefully, they will buy other things.
That's where Apple's extensive distribution deals will come in handy. With iPads in Best Buys, Targets, Walmarts and Apple Stores, there can't be many people in the US who won't get a chance to look at one if they want to.
This is very different from the iPhone situation, where Android phones are being flogged hard at multiple outlets and functioning iPhones are limited to Apple and AT&T stores. You go into a Verizon store looking for a phone, you have little chance of emerging without an Android handset-- and odds are you've never had an iPhone in your hand.
You go looking for a tablet and odds are you're going to run into an iPad-- and get a good idea of what that's like, before ever even encountering an Android device. I suspect that's going to (and already is) making a huge difference in how people think about "tablets" as a category and the iPad in particular. Outside of the iPod, I can't think of an Apple product that has enjoyed this kind of ubiquity coupled to extremely competitive pricing. It's a chance to see if Apple's design ideas really are compelling, without having to factor in pricing, availability or familiarity.
And that is very important, assuming that these outlets will have them working, and not screwed up. There are few things worse for a manufacturer than to have a potential customer walk into a store to try something out before buying, and be told; "Oh that? It's not working."
The customer is likely to buy something that IS working.
Pricing it too low would be a mistake because they'd run out of inventory. Plus, enterprise users are notoriously loose with with their money on mobile stuff so a higher price makes more sense.
A low entry price is only necessary if RIM wants to grab a large consumer share, which doesn't seem to be the target for this device. At least not initially.
You're thinking of the iPad, which was released First quarter of 2010. And yes, that is in time for Christmas 2010.
iPad was a different situation. It was creating a new market. There was nobody else there yet to gobble up sales.
RIM is in different position. They have foregone a huge huge huge opportunity by missing Q4 2010. Millions of people are going to buy iPads and Galaxy Tabs. RIM could have had a piece of that action, but they've missed their chance and will be entering the market when spending is at its lowest point of the year.
Research in Motion's initial entrance into the tablet market may prove aggressive with a rumored $399 starting price point for a contract-free PlayBook.
Maylong's M-150 may undercut Apple iPad and RIM's PlayBook at $129.
So there. A winner has been declared in the tablet race to the bottom!
However, it only has a 7" screen - most users would see a $499 iPad with twice the memory, a larger screen, and a plethora of native apps., as a much better deal.
I think the praybook has potential - a qnx-based operating system and a cortex a9 CPU - however adobe air as the main development toolset?
No native API
There goes the advantage of the cortex a9 down the toilet
And that is very important, assuming that these outlets will have them working, and not screwed up. There are few things worse for a manufacturer than to have a potential customer walk into a store to try something out before buying, and be told; "Oh that? It's not working."
The customer is likely to buy something that IS working.
True. I played around with a few Archos tablets at Best Buy, and I don't know if there was something wrong with them or they had been damaged or what, but they just sucked. 5 seconds before a button registered a touch, 5 seconds before anything else happened, 10 seconds on a blank screen while an app was launching, etc. If they have them out to drive sales, they're doing just the opposite. I've never understood why a place like Best Buy leaves trashed hardware sitting out. Why not just put up signs they say "Buy this crap, it barely works but it's cheap?"
The Tab, on the other hand, positioned towards the front of the store with the cellphones, was in good working order and gave a good impression.
The good news for the iPad is that it's actually kind of hard to screw it up. Not much in the way of hardware buttons to break, nothing in the way of computer stuff to screw up. Short of letting the battery die, I think they'll probably be in good working order, no matter what the various vendors do.
iPad was a different situation. It was creating a new market. There was nobody else there yet to gobble up sales.
RIM is in different position. They have foregone a huge huge huge opportunity by missing Q4 2010. Millions of people are going to buy iPads and Galaxy Tabs. RIM could have had a piece of that action, but they've missed their chance and will be entering the market when spending is at its lowest point of the year.
iPad was also released in Q1 - however it sold like gangbusters - and sight unseen - largely because apple has built up a ton of goodwill through several years of excellent product releases.
RIM conversely has had several stillborn and half-baked product releases and they've diminished their reputation and customer's confidence in their products.
Praybook being released in Q1 isn't what's going to hurt RIM; it's the paper launch they had earlier this year, along with the growing lack of enthusiasm for their products.
iPad was a different situation. It was creating a new market. There was nobody else there yet to gobble up sales.
RIM is in different position. They have foregone a huge huge huge opportunity by missing Q4 2010. Millions of people are going to buy iPads and Galaxy Tabs. RIM could have had a piece of that action, but they've missed their chance and will be entering the market when spending is at its lowest point of the year.
If, as I think, they are aiming for the business market, then the holiday season isn't as important to them. Don't forget that Apple missed it too, with the iPad.
Comments
Yep, everyone else is supposed to magically just come up with a device despite Apple growing thier products from what was aguably a limited product initially compared to todays Apple products.
It's Okay, I know I am not allowed to say anything that is not glowing of Apple or negative of anyone else. RIM and others are not doing anything different that what Apple did, they put out a product, determined true interest and then went with expanding it if applicable. Pretty normal practice in all segments over the entire planet for many, many years...
I agree with what you're saying. But times HAVE changed. expectations are higher than they were before. If all we had was MS tablets, would you think the UI worked well? If something else comes along that works much better, would that MS model you thought was fine still be fine?
When RIM comes out with a tablet that has a new OS, with no apps, and no way to get on to the internet when away from a WiFi network other than to use a Blackberry, do you really think that can compete?
With 56% of current BB users saying that their next phone will be something OTHER that a BB, do you think this will be popular?
RIM is positioning it as a business product, because it's not looking interesting to most people who expect a lot of interesting lifestyle apps of all sorts. WP7 is having problems because they're late to the game, and have almost no apps (they also don't have HTML 5, or Flash either).
Right now, it's Android and iOS. That's where the interest lies. So we see Android with about 130,000 apps, and iOS with over 300,000 apps. But we also see the iPad as having over 45,000 apps designed for it. How is RIM going to compete with that? They've also come out with "6" on their phones, which is different that what they will have for this. So they're not getting any leverage from having 10,000 phone apps.
Do you really think I'm just saying it's got problems out of nowhere? There's nothing wrong with thinking that Apple's products have problems, aren't the best, or aren't going to do well. I say that about some of their stuff myself. But, you've got to give some good reasons for saying things. So far, you haven't. Speaking in generalities doesn't help. You have to give specific reasons, and expect to defend them logically. Falling back on the old canard that you can't say something bad about an Apple product is not a useful argument. In fact, it's not an argument at all. All it is is a way of you saying that you have no argument.
The point you made bout having the iPad to compare it to is an important one. We often go through life thinking something is great, or horrible because we have nothing to compare it to. Many people will be buying one or the other without ever having tried anything else. If it's slow, well, then maybe that's the way it has to be.
That's where Apple's extensive distribution deals will come in handy. With iPads in Best Buys, Targets, Walmarts and Apple Stores, there can't be many people in the US who won't get a chance to look at one if they want to.
This is very different from the iPhone situation, where Android phones are being flogged hard at multiple outlets and functioning iPhones are limited to Apple and AT&T stores. You go into a Verizon store looking for a phone, you have little chance of emerging without an Android handset-- and odds are you've never had an iPhone in your hand.
You go looking for a tablet and odds are you're going to run into an iPad-- and get a good idea of what that's like, before ever even encountering an Android device. I suspect that's going to (and already is) making a huge difference in how people think about "tablets" as a category and the iPad in particular. Outside of the iPod, I can't think of an Apple product that has enjoyed this kind of ubiquity coupled to extremely competitive pricing. It's a chance to see if Apple's design ideas really are compelling, without having to factor in pricing, availability or familiarity.
If you get a PlayBook, the only way to connect to the internet is with cellular?
WTF?
I smell massive bomb.
Do I have this right?
If you get a PlayBook, the only way to connect to the internet is with cellular?
WTF?
I smell massive bomb.
i think it has WiFi and will tether to Blackberries that have a certain OS version number, thus allowing you to use your BB phone as a hub for your PlayBook, if necessary.
i think it has WiFi and will tether to Blackberries that have a certain OS version number, thus allowing you to use your BB phone as a hub for your PlayBook, if necessary.
OK... I see what it is. It does have wifi.
The cellular plus GPS pricing isn?t as extreme as people think it is. I think the Samsung Galaxy fluctuates between $100 and $150 for that addition. I recall paying around $300 only a few years ago for a 3G cellular USB for Mac from AT&T.
On top of that, it?s not the cost of the components, but other costs that drive it up, as you are well aware And we have to look at it as a premium feature that any smart company will try to make a higher profit on since they will sell less of because they are premium options. We can look at it from the entry level iPad?s price but it?s possible Apple has decided to take a much profit margin specifically to draw customers in. This isn?t only common, but good business.
On an unrelated matter, the TJ Maxx/Marshalls pricing is confusing. First of all, I thought official retailers had contracts that regulated how much below retail they could sell items for. Secondly, why so low when even at, say, $480 I think they would have sold out about as quickly.
Ok, two things. The first is that prices come down over time, and by volume. If Apple ordered a certain amount it would cost so much, but if they can now order four times as many, it will cost less. There are other costs as well, as you say, but it's possible that Apple needs its cost up front as many manufacturers do, and can then lower that price upon sell-through.
As far as the TJ Maxx pricing issue goes, Jobs said that they weren't an authorized dealer. Loss leader. This will bring them into the store where, hopefully, they will buy other things.
That's where Apple's extensive distribution deals will come in handy. With iPads in Best Buys, Targets, Walmarts and Apple Stores, there can't be many people in the US who won't get a chance to look at one if they want to.
This is very different from the iPhone situation, where Android phones are being flogged hard at multiple outlets and functioning iPhones are limited to Apple and AT&T stores. You go into a Verizon store looking for a phone, you have little chance of emerging without an Android handset-- and odds are you've never had an iPhone in your hand.
You go looking for a tablet and odds are you're going to run into an iPad-- and get a good idea of what that's like, before ever even encountering an Android device. I suspect that's going to (and already is) making a huge difference in how people think about "tablets" as a category and the iPad in particular. Outside of the iPod, I can't think of an Apple product that has enjoyed this kind of ubiquity coupled to extremely competitive pricing. It's a chance to see if Apple's design ideas really are compelling, without having to factor in pricing, availability or familiarity.
And that is very important, assuming that these outlets will have them working, and not screwed up. There are few things worse for a manufacturer than to have a potential customer walk into a store to try something out before buying, and be told; "Oh that? It's not working."
The customer is likely to buy something that IS working.
A low entry price is only necessary if RIM wants to grab a large consumer share, which doesn't seem to be the target for this device. At least not initially.
$399 doesn't sound right.
. . .
Good post. Succinct.
First quarter of 2010?
Just in time for Christmas, eh RIM?
You're thinking of the iPad, which was released First quarter of 2010. And yes, that is in time for Christmas 2010.
You're thinking of the iPad, which was released First quarter of 2010. And yes, that is in time for Christmas 2010.
iPad was a different situation. It was creating a new market. There was nobody else there yet to gobble up sales.
RIM is in different position. They have foregone a huge huge huge opportunity by missing Q4 2010. Millions of people are going to buy iPads and Galaxy Tabs. RIM could have had a piece of that action, but they've missed their chance and will be entering the market when spending is at its lowest point of the year.
Research in Motion's initial entrance into the tablet market may prove aggressive with a rumored $399 starting price point for a contract-free PlayBook.
Maylong's M-150 may undercut Apple iPad and RIM's PlayBook at $129.
So there. A winner has been declared in the tablet race to the bottom!
Despite what all the guys with smaller tablets say, size really does matter.
LMAO
Well at $399 it will undercut the iPad. In price.
Yeah, and in profits. And n resulting stock price impact.
Well at $399 it will undercut the iPad. In price.
It currently undercuts the iPad in price.
However, it only has a 7" screen - most users would see a $499 iPad with twice the memory, a larger screen, and a plethora of native apps., as a much better deal.
I think the praybook has potential - a qnx-based operating system and a cortex a9 CPU - however adobe air as the main development toolset?
No native API
There goes the advantage of the cortex a9 down the toilet
And that is very important, assuming that these outlets will have them working, and not screwed up. There are few things worse for a manufacturer than to have a potential customer walk into a store to try something out before buying, and be told; "Oh that? It's not working."
The customer is likely to buy something that IS working.
True. I played around with a few Archos tablets at Best Buy, and I don't know if there was something wrong with them or they had been damaged or what, but they just sucked. 5 seconds before a button registered a touch, 5 seconds before anything else happened, 10 seconds on a blank screen while an app was launching, etc. If they have them out to drive sales, they're doing just the opposite. I've never understood why a place like Best Buy leaves trashed hardware sitting out. Why not just put up signs they say "Buy this crap, it barely works but it's cheap?"
The Tab, on the other hand, positioned towards the front of the store with the cellphones, was in good working order and gave a good impression.
The good news for the iPad is that it's actually kind of hard to screw it up. Not much in the way of hardware buttons to break, nothing in the way of computer stuff to screw up. Short of letting the battery die, I think they'll probably be in good working order, no matter what the various vendors do.
iPad was a different situation. It was creating a new market. There was nobody else there yet to gobble up sales.
RIM is in different position. They have foregone a huge huge huge opportunity by missing Q4 2010. Millions of people are going to buy iPads and Galaxy Tabs. RIM could have had a piece of that action, but they've missed their chance and will be entering the market when spending is at its lowest point of the year.
iPad was also released in Q1 - however it sold like gangbusters - and sight unseen - largely because apple has built up a ton of goodwill through several years of excellent product releases.
RIM conversely has had several stillborn and half-baked product releases and they've diminished their reputation and customer's confidence in their products.
Praybook being released in Q1 isn't what's going to hurt RIM; it's the paper launch they had earlier this year, along with the growing lack of enthusiasm for their products.
iPad was a different situation. It was creating a new market. There was nobody else there yet to gobble up sales.
RIM is in different position. They have foregone a huge huge huge opportunity by missing Q4 2010. Millions of people are going to buy iPads and Galaxy Tabs. RIM could have had a piece of that action, but they've missed their chance and will be entering the market when spending is at its lowest point of the year.
If, as I think, they are aiming for the business market, then the holiday season isn't as important to them. Don't forget that Apple missed it too, with the iPad.