Windows Phone 7 developers fear platform flop

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  • Reply 161 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tyrnight View Post


    Wait, Microsoft Has a mobile platform?



    Heh. I saw someone with an Apple computer the other day (Starbucks) and I thought to myself. Wait, Apple makes computer? If you have a job, you just don't see Apple computers. They've pretty much been banished from the enterprise. Xserve sales are booming though!
  • Reply 162 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Not in my organization. I was pretty intimately involved with our recent mail migration and at least 60% of the current BB users were pretty PO'd they couldn't get support for the iPhone yet. It's coming the first quarter of this year - I expect a mass exodus (including me!) as soon as that happens. Sure, there will be some holdouts, but they will be the vast minority.



    And the iPad - oy! Thanks to the iPad we are going to have an Enterprise Apple hardware contract for the first time. I never thought I would live to see that!



    The halo effect - it's what's for breakfast.



    What company is this? I want to make sure I don't do business with it. I won't productivity at work, not Angry Birds.
  • Reply 163 of 291
    "Microsoft is reportedly also withholding any payments to its app developers through February 2011."



    If this is true, this is just absolutely f****d.
  • Reply 164 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


    Man, three pages of bashing. Anyway I just took the plunge and bought a WP7. I had a 3G for almost 2.5 years and was ready for a change.



    People generally bash things they fear or don't understand. Fanbois have long memories and they remember what happened last time Apple tried to battle MSFT. When Microsoft took 98% of the desktop market and Apple teetered on the brink of bankruptcy.
  • Reply 165 of 291
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post


    I guarantee if the sales numbers were good, everybody would know them. MS wouldn't keep it quite. The fact that they gagging the media and developers can only mean the numbers are bad!



    The numbers may be bad, who knows. However, the arguments being made for the demise of WP7 are not particularly valid, nor were they made about other OS at similar points in their life cycle.



    Like I said, no one wrote that Android was doomed because they were outsold by Apple 20:1 after a month on the market. The comparison of current WP7 sales after a month to Android or iOS are absurd. The more proper metric is how long to sell a million units (iOS was a little over a month, and Android was 6 months). So if WP7 takes much longer than 6 months, it is slow.



    Further, 2 complaining developers out of 15,000 does not spell doom (but is typical of AI's yellow journalism), any more than the Apple App store is doomed because a few developers leave because they are disaffected.
  • Reply 166 of 291
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No. That's been stated elsewhere. AI doesn't make things up. Sometimes the writers give their opinions on how they feel about something, but no deliberate falsehoods.



    wrong, the article with the headline stating that Ballmer said that the Apple brand did not mean much (which was subsequently changed) was made up.
  • Reply 167 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No. That's been stated elsewhere. AI doesn't make things up. Sometimes the writers give their opinions on how they feel about something, but no deliberate falsehoods.



    You have to understand the confusion though, right?



    I would suggest a majority of readers view the news feed on AI as news, not a collection of opinion pieces. It's no surprise either as the articles are purposefully written as news. I searched through the last couple of days of articles and didn't come across the words "I" or "my" as in "my opinion" or "I think" or "it is my belief".



    If AI is truly is a collection of opinion pieces then how, as a reader, am I suppose to tell the difference between the opinion and the fact if it is all written as fact?



    Let's assume for a moment that AI is a collection of opinion pieces.



    The article states "Microsoft is reportedly also withholding any payments to its app developers through February 2011".



    Where was it reported that Microsoft are withholding payments? Did the writer simply forget to quote this?



    The developer, Justin James, blogged that "there will be no payouts from App Hub until February 2011". He didn't report that Microsoft were "withholding payments", he just stated the fact that payments wouldn't be received from Microsoft until February 2011. As it turns out Microsoft stated prior to WP7 release that app payments wouldn't be available until February 2011.



    There are a couple of possible scenarios I can see. One is that Microsoft could have the entire system up and running, have received all payments from customers and be ready to send them out to developers but decided in October to hold onto them for whatever reason. The second is that Microsoft simply didn't have the payment and reporting capabilities ready for release, they realized this in October and set the release date for this functionality at February 2011.



    Personally I think it is more likely they simply didn't have the system ready by launch. I think we can assume the writer believes there is something more nefarious behind the delay.



    So why say it was reported that Microsoft are withholding payments? If nothing is made up then was it the writers opinion that there would be a report somewhere that stated the same opinion as the writer?



    Again, you have to understand the confusion in this.



    The title of the article states "Windows Phone 7 developers fear platform flop" yet the writer makes no attempt to justify the title.



    Two developer blogs are quoted. Justin James blogged about his disappointing experience publishing an application through Microsoft's App Hub. He concludes that Microsoft need to fix up the App Hub before it can be seen by developers as a source of revenue.



    Nowhere does he state he fears the platform will flop.



    The other developer, Nicholas Yu, has since posted a scathing response to the "journalists" (his emphasis, not mine) that misrepresented his original post. Again, nowhere did he state that he fears the platform will flop.





    So we have to assume the title is the writers opinion as well. Unfortunately this time the opinion is not backed by any solid facts, and if an opinion is not based on any actual facts then how far is this away from simply being "made up"?



    At this point I have to ask, why bother writing these stories at all? If opinion is getting mingled with news, and those opinions may be constructed from thin air giving them no more authority than any other comments on these forums.



    Like I said, you have to understand the confusion in this. Where do we stand as readers in what we should believe and what we shouldn't?



    It's not like I don't think opinion has a place on the site.



    Firstly my preference would be to see a complete separation of the Apple insider news feed (which I love) with other tech news (which I generally find unhelpful at best). However I understand this site is funded by clicks, so that may not be practical.



    What I do believe you should have is news articles followed by an opinion piece. The news article should come first and be based on actual facts instead of opinions.



    You then have another section under the article with a title like "John's take on this..." where the writer would state their own opinion on the news story, hopefully based on some solid tech background.
  • Reply 168 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    "Microsoft is reportedly also withholding any payments to its app developers through February 2011."



    If this is true, this is just absolutely f****d.



    See above...
  • Reply 169 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    Tie them in a not?



    That's a "knot," you ignorant sod.
  • Reply 170 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    I'm not surprised. AI is great for breaking stories and finding new information about Apple products, which is the reason I'm a regular.



    When it comes to competitors though AI may as well make stories up for all the credibility they have.











    EDIT********************************************** *****



    This is a warning, any insults will result in a demerit.







    How many apps have you ever installed on your phone? Stats for the App Store show a majority of downloads are from the top few percent of the apps in the store.



    Any App Store only needs a few thousand "AAA" quality applications. The rest is just marketing bullshit.









    Ballmer did mention something about that in an interview. I can't quite remember the specifics. The man rambles on about unrelated stuff like a lunatic.



    You're missing the big picture, buddy.



    You're assuming that getting a few thousand good to great apps for a store means having a few thousand to offer. Really? To have a few thousand great apps you need hundreds of thousands in your store. That's just life; most movies, books, etc. are of poor quality. For every Citizen Kane there's a thousand Encino Mans.



    Second, the hundreds of thousands of apps in Apple's store testifies to the massive popularity of the platform with developers.



    Android is picking up the Apple haters and the clueless. Where does that leave MS?
  • Reply 171 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    You have to understand the confusion though, right?



    I would suggest a majority of readers view the news feed on AI as news, not a collection of opinion pieces. It's no surprise either as the articles are purposefully written as news. I searched through the last couple of days of articles and didn't come across the words "I" or "my" as in "my opinion" or "I think" or "it is my belief".



    If AI is truly is a collection of opinion pieces then how, as a reader, am I suppose to tell the difference between the opinion and the fact if it is all written as fact?



    Let's assume for a moment that AI is a collection of opinion pieces.



    The article states "Microsoft is reportedly also withholding any payments to its app developers through February 2011".



    Where was it reported that Microsoft are withholding payments? Did the writer simply forget to quote this?



    The developer, Justin James, blogged that "there will be no payouts from App Hub until February 2011". He didn't report that Microsoft were "withholding payments", he just stated the fact that payments wouldn't be received from Microsoft until February 2011. As it turns out Microsoft stated prior to WP7 release that app payments wouldn't be available until February 2011.



    There are a couple of possible scenarios I can see. One is that Microsoft could have the entire system up and running, have received all payments from customers and be ready to send them out to developers but decided in October to hold onto them for whatever reason. The second is that Microsoft simply didn't have the payment and reporting capabilities ready for release, they realized this in October and set the release date for this functionality at February 2011.



    Personally I think it is more likely they simply didn't have the system ready by launch. I think we can assume the writer believes there is something more nefarious behind the delay.



    So why say it was reported that Microsoft are withholding payments? If nothing is made up then was it the writers opinion that there would be a report somewhere that stated the same opinion as the writer?



    Again, you have to understand the confusion in this.



    The title of the article states "Windows Phone 7 developers fear platform flop" yet the writer makes no attempt to justify the title.



    Two developer blogs are quoted. Justin James blogged about his disappointing experience publishing an application through Microsoft's App Hub. He concludes that Microsoft need to fix up the App Hub before it can be seen by developers as a source of revenue.



    Nowhere does he state he fears the platform will flop.



    The other developer, Nicholas Yu, has since posted a scathing response to the "journalists" (his emphasis, not mine) that misrepresented his original post. Again, nowhere did he state that he fears the platform will flop.





    So we have to assume the title is the writers opinion as well. Unfortunately this time the opinion is not backed by any solid facts, and if an opinion is not based on any actual facts then how far is this away from simply being "made up"?



    At this point I have to ask, why bother writing these stories at all? If opinion is getting mingled with news, and those opinions may be constructed from thin air giving them no more authority than any other comments on these forums.



    Like I said, you have to understand the confusion in this. Where do we stand as readers in what we should believe and what we shouldn't?



    It's not like I don't think opinion has a place on the site.



    Firstly my preference would be to see a complete separation of the Apple insider news feed (which I love) with other tech news (which I generally find unhelpful at best). However I understand this site is funded by clicks, so that may not be practical.



    What I do believe you should have is news articles followed by an opinion piece. The news article should come first and be based on actual facts instead of opinions.



    You then have another section under the article with a title like "John's take on this..." where the writer would state their own opinion on the news story, hopefully based on some solid tech background.



    Let me make it simple, Firefly.



    Windows Phone 7 is failing miserably.



    That factual enough for ya, buddy?
  • Reply 172 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    "In the UK, an Orange launch event opened to a line of just two people."

    Wow! I bet one was DaHarder....



  • Reply 173 of 291
    oomuoomu Posts: 130member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    Dont like my snarky tones? Really the whole article is snarky.



    "I can't stand Microsoft, or any of their products"



    it's not what the article is telling.



    appleinsider is reporting the launching is "meh" and Microsoft has significant challenge on the market (for once : an open market, the bane of Microsoft)
  • Reply 174 of 291
    http://blog.taotaotech.com/2010/11/2...ing-my-stance/ :

    Quote:

    As I am wrapping up my vacation in San Francisco on a perfect day, I found a couple of comments waiting for approval in my inbox. To my surprise, none of these comments were GoVoice questions, which was what this blog was set up for. Instead, they were trackbacks of blogs and reports twisting what I said on my previous entry. After reading a few articles, I found none of those trackbacks are actually loyal to what I have said, and there is a need to clarify.



    First of all, I will never express opinions on the blog regarding anything other than GoVoice. The blog is never meant to be used as a commentary about Microsoft or Windows Phone. The only reason this blog existed was for me to provide support for my customers. So if you want to quote this blog for anything else, you are misrepresenting my words.



    Secondly, I acknowledge that currently reporting is not available until January/February of 2011. However, that information was announce on the Windows Phone Developer Blog back in October. I am not surprised for not getting a paycheck now, and I will not starve to death before February. I don?t know if anybody should be worried unless you are one of those reporters who would do anything for a story. I also know that there are third-party solutions available like PreEmptive and Silverlight Analytic Framework. I didn?t use them in the first release simply because I ran out of time. In 1.6 I used my own solution because I was setting up a server anyway. I never thought this would be interpreted as me complaining that Windows Phone marketplace being useless.



    Lastly, (and please don?t quote me out of context,) GoVoice was born because it was one app missing that prevented me from migrating to Windows Phone. I developed the app because there was no other way to make long distance calls to the significant other. I figured solving my own problem would mean others could benefit too. It?s very simple like that. If no one had bought that app, it would have been worthwhile because I needed it.



    If it still isn?t clear to those ?journalists?, here is my opinion: I enjoy submitting my apps to the marketplace. It has its bugs for sure, they always reliably and professionally test my app within 2 business days with a detailed of explanation if it fails. It?s much better than waiting for 9 months for a black-box to ?study? it just like what happened to GV Mobile.



  • Reply 175 of 291
    FTA:
    Quote:

    That report also noted that the new WP7 models "are by and large generic phones from well known manufacturers, and in most cases an almost identical model is available from the same manufacturer with Android, and given the choice people seem to be picking Android."



    Boom. Try convincing Michael Douglas that instead of sleeping with his wife for free, he should instead pay some random tramp for the same. Michael Douglas, in this analogy, is HTC, and Catherine Zeta Jones is Android. The idea that Microsoft can charge anything, at all, for the 'privilege' of using WP7, is in question. Welcome to four years ago, MS. You're late; the keg has run dry.
  • Reply 176 of 291
    http://www.fudzilla.com/mobiles/item...ped-by-android



    Quote:

    A UK supplier claims that Microsoft's new Windows Mobile 7 is not doing very well against Android. Writing in his blog, Ben Pusey, of Mobiles Please said that Windows Phone 7 has got off to a sluggish start as far as his punters are concerned.



    Only three per cent of smartphone sales and a little under two per cent of overall sales through MobilesPlease.co.uk have been using the Windows Mobile 7 OS. ?The 800,000 people who visit these mobile channels a month are enough to show that the initial public reaction to Windows Phone 7 is luke warm at best,? he said.



    Even Symbian 3 handsets outsold Windows 7 Phones by three to one, which is a little embarrising. ?The Symbian 3 sales were almost entirely made up of one handset, the Nokia N8,? Pusey said. With Windows Phone 7 Microsoft have genuinely made an effort to differentiate, however they have arrived very late to the market and catching up with the other players will be a Herculean task, he added.



    Other retailers have said that demand for iPhone, Blackberry and HTC handsets were strong in the smartphone sector.Some retailers were not even bothering displaying Windows Phone 7 machines, Pusey claimed. He said that with no killer handsets, and the stuffy, suit and tie image that Microsoft have tried so hard to shed still lingering, ?Microsoft need to pull something impressive out of the bag soon if they are going to compete in the mobile phone market.?



    http://www.fudzilla.com/mobiles/item...phone-7-update



    Quote:

    Microsoft is rumoured to be readying a major Windows Phone 7 update. While it might seem a bit odd to update a relatively fresh OS, it appears that WP7 simply isn?t doing too well against Android and iOS devices.

    The update should include some form of multitasking, as well as copy/paste support. One might say that these crucial features should have been included from the get-go, but then again it?s a clear case of better late than never.



    In addition, the update should include Bing turn-by-turn directions and other improvements, as well as custom ringer support.



    Despite this WP7 seems destined to face an uphill struggle against Google and Apple offerings. It obviously won?t flop like the Kin, but there is already too much skepticism surrounding Microsoft?s new mobile platform.



    More here.



    I can smell the fail from here.
  • Reply 177 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JakeBarnes View Post


    You're assuming that getting a few thousand good to great apps for a store means having a few thousand to offer.



    Nope.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JakeBarnes View Post


    To have a few thousand great apps you need hundreds of thousands in your store.



    Nope. People here could give you a lot of info about the relative quality of apps between Android and iOS.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JakeBarnes View Post


    Android is picking up the Apple haters and the clueless. Where does that leave MS?



    There is room for more than two types of phone in the market.
  • Reply 178 of 291
    Windows Phone 7 launched alongside a $500 million ad campaign last month to lackluster sales estimated to be in the tens of thousands.



    If MS kept the phones and sold every one of 10,000 customers $50,000 cash for the price of the phone they would have been better off than spending $500M marketing the phones!



    I know I'd buy, it's about the only thing I would buy from MS!
  • Reply 179 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JakeBarnes View Post


    Let me make it simple, Firefly. Windows Phone 7 is failing miserably. That factual enough for ya, buddy?



    Actually not that bad



    In the context of your comment you define what "failing" means, so you could easily argue that position.



    If you presented that as a news article you would get a giant "F" though.
  • Reply 180 of 291
    Thanks for the info
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