I'd like to see someone write an App designed to access the confidential rape charge documents around Assange. Funny how his lawyers are all crying foul over those getting out in the wild.
Have you actually read what is supposed to have transpired? The word 'rape' should never have been used in connection with this matter as it devalues the seriousness of the word and concept.
Regardless what you believe about the merits or not of leaking the documents a couple of things should be noted:
- While Apple is a private company and, by the way the USA currently works, can do what it wants in terms of who it chooses to provide services to, it's a fact that most services in the USA are provided by private companies. If private companies who provide most services can withhold them at the whim of themselves or other undetermined entities then the difference between such a system and a secretive government-run state is moot.
- This was not exactly top secret stuff. This was information that was by all accounts readily available to a private in the army. While a government must have secrets to operate, this availability and the content itself - which is not much more than confirmation of most informed people's suspicions - does not suggest that lives are really in danger as a result of it's publication. It does embarrass a lot of people and call into question the way the USA operates, though.
This is what I don't like the most about Apple. Censorship!
They have no business telling us what we're supposed to read or consume.
When will they see the light?
You can read it on the web. And they are not blocking the site. Apple is allowed to not sell whatever they want, the same as that Christian bookstore on the corner cannot be forced to sell Hustler.
However, if this group is found guilty of criminal acts due to the leaks, Apple doesn't want to be seen as actively assisting them
Then there there is the applied support of the group, regardless of the criminal aspect. Apple is very careful to avoid taking sides on 99% of issues. We know how Apple feels about leaking info, etc.
AND, probably more important is this trick of forcing you to donate to something that you might not wish to via charging for the app. Especially when the info is free on the web. Particularly since it is apparently some third party who might not be sharing the money at all.
- This was not exactly top secret stuff. This was information that was by all accounts readily available to a private in the army. While a government must have secrets to operate, this availability and the content itself - which is not much more than confirmation of most informed people's suspicions - does not suggest that lives are really in danger as a result of it's publication. It does embarrass a lot of people and call into question the way the USA operates, though.
I believe some of the information published has put people in danger:
Wikki Leaks is only passing on what was given to them. They did not ask for it or seek it. Yes, an argument can be made, was it proper to pass it on. That is a judgement call and is dependant on which side of a particular issue one happens to stand. If one is trying to hide something for reasons bad or good, then if it gets out it causes harm. However those on the other side may be very pleased that a particular issue has been revealed.
The real issue here is with those who generated the matters to be kept secret in the first place. It has come to light that they had not the judgement, wisdom, will or means to keep the matters on a need to know basis.
The majority of material released by Wikki leaks is related to the USA in some fashion. Wikki Leaks has only brought to light what the USA and its leadership( or ( lack thereof ) has allowed to happen to itself because of the lack of some very core principles in its society and leadership structure.
Question ? would the leadership which brought about June 6 1944 be compared to what is in power now..
Better question Could today's Leadership have pulled off D-Day . I seriously doubt it.
So Apple pulling a particular app is akin to a mosquito biting an elephant and has about the same relavence.
I'd like to see someone write an App designed to access the confidential rape charge documents around Assange. Funny how his lawyers are all crying foul over those getting out in the wild.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Surely, you must know that there are some pretty important differences between an individual and the state.
i doubt they do, and therein lies a root problem in our society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1
Of course I do. Likewise, I'm sure that you understand that this whole WikiLeaks exercise has put many individuals at needless risk, not to mention the extra (though clearly not quantifiable) risk that the rest of us now must bear because of things that should have been left as secret no longer are.
there has never been a single substantiated case of any harm to any individual because of wikileaks actions. and i doubt there will be in this case either. but check back every month or so for the next few years and we'll see how that's going. your statement, just as when everyone else has made it, is fear-mongering. bruised egos and embarrassment don't count.
I take the Libertarian viewpoint that only the government can truly censor information. A private company can choose to publish something or not, but they can't physically restrain you from going elsewhere to get it, which the government can.
As for Wikileaks itself, I think it's quite shameful what they're doing. It's one thing to blow the whistle on a corrupt CEO or bribe taking politician, but this is nothing to do with that. This is releasing national security information, which does not (as far as I have seen) indiciate any corruption, it just puts people at risk.
For the self-aggrandizement of the people who are doing it. And yes, you another others who have pointed out that Apple cannot censor anything are right. That word is incredibly overused. The app violates Apple's store policy. Get over it already.
Though I wonder if Apple will now be assaulted by the misguided hacker community which has attacked the other companies that have chosen not to support WikiLeaks. I wonder how WikiLeaks defenders will react if they can't access the Apple Store or the iTMS because some cowardly morons believe that Apple is obligated to assist some marginal character like you-know-who.
You guys are jumping to some terrible conclusions here.
This app is not from WikiLeaks, it is an app from a guy trying to take advantage of material that is available for free on the Internet. It would be the equivalent of someone charging for an app that gives you content from the NYT and then calling it a NYT app -- that is a clear violation of Apple's terms, and it should be.
I support WikiLeaks, but this incident is about someone capitalizing on the situation. If this app was from WikiLeaks themselves, that would be a different matter.
Good point! I will be sure to read all the way through the article before commenting after the first paragraph.
They're not telling you what you can or can't read. They may not want to support WikiLeaks, the same way PayPal and MC don't. And they don't have to make it easy for you to read materials that were illegally obtained, much the way they don't have to have a 'pirated book' app.
I do not care how that material was obtained we have the right to read it..it is supposed to be a free country(usa is a dictatorship we cannot read what is not approved by the gov)...
Though I wonder if Apple will now be assaulted by the misguided hacker community which has attacked the other companies that have chosen not to support WikiLeaks. I wonder how WikiLeaks defenders will react if they can't access the Apple Store or the iTMS because some cowardly morons believe that Apple is obligated to assist some marginal character like you-know-who.
I'm curious what entity coordinated the original DoS attack on the Wikileaks website.
I wonder how WikiLeaks defenders will react if they can't access the Apple Store or the iTMS because some cowardly morons believe that Apple is obligated to assist some marginal character like you-know-who.
I wonder if the Jailbreakers will use their iPhones to join the attack. Them and those Android freaks too.
For the self-aggrandizement of the people who are doing it. And yes, you another others who have pointed out that Apple cannot censor anything are right. That word is incredibly overused. The app violates Apple's store policy. Get over it already.
Though I wonder if Apple will now be assaulted by the misguided hacker community which has attacked the other companies that have chosen not to support WikiLeaks. I wonder how WikiLeaks defenders will react if they can't access the Apple Store or the iTMS because some cowardly morons believe that Apple is obligated to assist some marginal character like you-know-who.
appalled at the morons who are up in arms regarding assange yet seem to not care about what was actually contained in the leaks and what it means.
Comments
I'd like to see someone write an App designed to access the confidential rape charge documents around Assange. Funny how his lawyers are all crying foul over those getting out in the wild.
Have you actually read what is supposed to have transpired? The word 'rape' should never have been used in connection with this matter as it devalues the seriousness of the word and concept.
Have a read: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010...assange-sweden
- While Apple is a private company and, by the way the USA currently works, can do what it wants in terms of who it chooses to provide services to, it's a fact that most services in the USA are provided by private companies. If private companies who provide most services can withhold them at the whim of themselves or other undetermined entities then the difference between such a system and a secretive government-run state is moot.
- This was not exactly top secret stuff. This was information that was by all accounts readily available to a private in the army. While a government must have secrets to operate, this availability and the content itself - which is not much more than confirmation of most informed people's suspicions - does not suggest that lives are really in danger as a result of it's publication. It does embarrass a lot of people and call into question the way the USA operates, though.
This is what I don't like the most about Apple. Censorship!
They have no business telling us what we're supposed to read or consume.
When will they see the light?
You can read it on the web. And they are not blocking the site. Apple is allowed to not sell whatever they want, the same as that Christian bookstore on the corner cannot be forced to sell Hustler.
However, if this group is found guilty of criminal acts due to the leaks, Apple doesn't want to be seen as actively assisting them
Then there there is the applied support of the group, regardless of the criminal aspect. Apple is very careful to avoid taking sides on 99% of issues. We know how Apple feels about leaking info, etc.
AND, probably more important is this trick of forcing you to donate to something that you might not wish to via charging for the app. Especially when the info is free on the web. Particularly since it is apparently some third party who might not be sharing the money at all.
- This was not exactly top secret stuff. This was information that was by all accounts readily available to a private in the army. While a government must have secrets to operate, this availability and the content itself - which is not much more than confirmation of most informed people's suspicions - does not suggest that lives are really in danger as a result of it's publication. It does embarrass a lot of people and call into question the way the USA operates, though.
I believe some of the information published has put people in danger:
http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N58/wikileaks_p.html
... newspapers publishing and re-publishing this ... face no issues whatsoever.....
Pathetic, really.
Likely King George shared this opinion of a free press. But I'm kinda glad that Thomas Paine was moral enough to think different.
In fact, were he alive today, I could imagine Thomas Paine throwing a big hammer at a mesmerizing, oversized image of the App Store.
Just saying.
Big Brother Apple strikes again...
Anyone trying to take advantage of my country, don't deserve to have easy access.
The real issue here is with those who generated the matters to be kept secret in the first place. It has come to light that they had not the judgement, wisdom, will or means to keep the matters on a need to know basis.
The majority of material released by Wikki leaks is related to the USA in some fashion. Wikki Leaks has only brought to light what the USA and its leadership( or ( lack thereof ) has allowed to happen to itself because of the lack of some very core principles in its society and leadership structure.
Question ? would the leadership which brought about June 6 1944 be compared to what is in power now..
Better question Could today's Leadership have pulled off D-Day . I seriously doubt it.
So Apple pulling a particular app is akin to a mosquito biting an elephant and has about the same relavence.
Question ? would the leadership which brought about June 6 1944 be compared to what is in power now..
Better question Could today's Leadership have pulled off D-Day . I seriously doubt it.
So Apple pulling a particular app is akin to a mosquito biting an elephant and has about the same relavence.
Good point. Unless and until today's Leadership could have pulled off D-Day, Apple can do any damn thing it pleases.
I never looked at things that way before.
I agree with you, BTW, that FDR was a great, great man. I too wish that we could again have a leader just like FDR.
I'd like to see someone write an App designed to access the confidential rape charge documents around Assange. Funny how his lawyers are all crying foul over those getting out in the wild.
Surely, you must know that there are some pretty important differences between an individual and the state.
i doubt they do, and therein lies a root problem in our society.
Of course I do. Likewise, I'm sure that you understand that this whole WikiLeaks exercise has put many individuals at needless risk, not to mention the extra (though clearly not quantifiable) risk that the rest of us now must bear because of things that should have been left as secret no longer are.
there has never been a single substantiated case of any harm to any individual because of wikileaks actions. and i doubt there will be in this case either. but check back every month or so for the next few years and we'll see how that's going. your statement, just as when everyone else has made it, is fear-mongering. bruised egos and embarrassment don't count.
I'd like to see someone write an App designed to access the confidential rape charge documents
That is just plain despicable.
I take the Libertarian viewpoint that only the government can truly censor information. A private company can choose to publish something or not, but they can't physically restrain you from going elsewhere to get it, which the government can.
As for Wikileaks itself, I think it's quite shameful what they're doing. It's one thing to blow the whistle on a corrupt CEO or bribe taking politician, but this is nothing to do with that. This is releasing national security information, which does not (as far as I have seen) indiciate any corruption, it just puts people at risk.
For the self-aggrandizement of the people who are doing it. And yes, you another others who have pointed out that Apple cannot censor anything are right. That word is incredibly overused. The app violates Apple's store policy. Get over it already.
Though I wonder if Apple will now be assaulted by the misguided hacker community which has attacked the other companies that have chosen not to support WikiLeaks. I wonder how WikiLeaks defenders will react if they can't access the Apple Store or the iTMS because some cowardly morons believe that Apple is obligated to assist some marginal character like you-know-who.
You guys are jumping to some terrible conclusions here.
This app is not from WikiLeaks, it is an app from a guy trying to take advantage of material that is available for free on the Internet. It would be the equivalent of someone charging for an app that gives you content from the NYT and then calling it a NYT app -- that is a clear violation of Apple's terms, and it should be.
I support WikiLeaks, but this incident is about someone capitalizing on the situation. If this app was from WikiLeaks themselves, that would be a different matter.
Good point! I will be sure to read all the way through the article before commenting after the first paragraph.
They're not telling you what you can or can't read. They may not want to support WikiLeaks, the same way PayPal and MC don't. And they don't have to make it easy for you to read materials that were illegally obtained, much the way they don't have to have a 'pirated book' app.
I do not care how that material was obtained we have the right to read it..it is supposed to be a free country(usa is a dictatorship we cannot read what is not approved by the gov)...
Though I wonder if Apple will now be assaulted by the misguided hacker community which has attacked the other companies that have chosen not to support WikiLeaks. I wonder how WikiLeaks defenders will react if they can't access the Apple Store or the iTMS because some cowardly morons believe that Apple is obligated to assist some marginal character like you-know-who.
I'm curious what entity coordinated the original DoS attack on the Wikileaks website.
Love OS X and can't think of a better operating system. No complaints in what's coming close to 9 years of use.
Stuff like this though? Makes me want to just move to Ubuntu. Been using it on my netbook for sometime and it's shaped up nicely . . .
No one is stopping you
have made the move and couldn't be happier. still have an ipad and a 3 year old imac but not sure what the future holds regarding replacing those....
kim jong il.... oops i mean...steve jobs doesn't need my money anyway.
I wonder how WikiLeaks defenders will react if they can't access the Apple Store or the iTMS because some cowardly morons believe that Apple is obligated to assist some marginal character like you-know-who.
I wonder if the Jailbreakers will use their iPhones to join the attack. Them and those Android freaks too.
For the self-aggrandizement of the people who are doing it. And yes, you another others who have pointed out that Apple cannot censor anything are right. That word is incredibly overused. The app violates Apple's store policy. Get over it already.
Though I wonder if Apple will now be assaulted by the misguided hacker community which has attacked the other companies that have chosen not to support WikiLeaks. I wonder how WikiLeaks defenders will react if they can't access the Apple Store or the iTMS because some cowardly morons believe that Apple is obligated to assist some marginal character like you-know-who.
appalled at the morons who are up in arms regarding assange yet seem to not care about what was actually contained in the leaks and what it means.
This is what I don't like the most about Apple. Censorship!
They have no business telling us what we're supposed to read or consume.
When will they see the light?
You need to learn the meaning of the word. Censorship is something that only comes from government, not a private company.