i'm not at all suggesting that Apple is THE progenitor of all great ideas however why is it that when Apple is involved in a certain category of product somehow legitimizes it for bigger companies such as Microsoft, now Google, to enter even if that category of product had already existed before Apple's entry?
Hmm I am pretty sure that Microsoft has been doing this for a while. Windows Media Center XP edition came out in 2002. Then the Xbox 360 has had online rentals, streaming from SMB shares, the ability to act as a Media Center Extender and it was one of if not the first device to get Netflix.
Sorry off topic .. I'd totally disagree. Yes they may be over used, yes they be used incorrectly at times. However, they add a dimension to writing previously absent to all but the most skilled writer, the ability to ... yes you guessed it ... show the emotional intent behind the comment. Add in the fact blogs are often terse and very susceptible to misinterpretation and they can become invaluable in avoiding any such issues.
name a feature of the apple TV that didn't appear in another product before ATV2 came out?
Pretty much EVERYTHING in life is derivative. 100%, out-of-the-blue, never even thought of before doesn't happen much, if at all.
Check out the old 'Connections' series on PBS.
Real innovation is taking existing ideas and combining them in an original and usable way that gains mass acceptance, maybe adding a new spin here and there.
Lots of tired old cliches in the comments here, probably from people who have never used Windows Media Center. It has a lot going for it. The remote believe it or not is very simple, the interface is slick and effective, the onscreen guide is the best I've ever seen, it supports OTA and QAM tuners, it has the best DVR abilities and interface I know of, ...
Yeah, and we could connect our Macs to TVs before Windows Media Center came out, but so what? This is a new dedicated set top box we're talking about here, not a Media Center PC. The question is, what will MS bring to the market that isn't already there?
A Mac could not do what Windows Media Center PC could do with out 3rd party software. I think this new device will be a third option. You will have....
Windows Media Center PC
Xbox 360
New Device
All three will pretty much do the same thing when it comes to TV viewing, stream internet content from Microsofts store like the 360 has done for 5 years now, stream media from a Windows PC, (Like Apple TV does with iTunes on a computer), have plugins like "Netflix" like the 360/Media Center have had for a while now.
I think each device may have some unique capabilities like a TV tuner card in a Windows Media Center PC. The 360 can play your Zune Pass content, I would imagine that this could be put in the new device as well.
The new device will target people that dont want a 360 and dont want full blown Windows Media Center PC, and at a cheaper price.
Apple's pricing is horrendous compared to the Netflix model, at least here in Canada. For $8 a month you have access to tons of good programming.
How far would you get on $8 going the Apple route? Something like 1 movie rental and 1 TV show rental, in HD, would set you back here in Canada $7.98.
If you start watching a movie on let's say your laptop, stop for a while, and then pick it back up on the PS3 attached to your HD flatscreen, Netflix remembers where you left off.
I would love for Apple to develop a subscription model to compete with something like that. The idea of spending a small fortune on outright purchases or even a succession of rentals, just to watch a few movies and TV shows doesn't appeal.
Granted a lot of Netflix is not new content but if you haven't seen it, it's like new, and there is a decent selection of good programming that I haven't seen.
By the way, I'm not in a generous mood regarding Microsoft right now, having just endured the infamous Red Ring of Death on my three-year-old Xbox. Had the Kinect attached and apparently lots of people are having issues with their older Xbox consoles when used with the Kinect, especially following a recent update. Sadly the extended warranty on the Xbox expired on Dec. 10 while the unit crashed Jan. 1 so I'm SOL, unless it can be proven that Microsoft botched something that caused compatibility issues between the Xbox and the Kinect.
I have to say that it is rather telling that while it became apparent fairly early on that the original Xbox 360 had a terrible design, it took Microsoft nearly five years to get around to releasing a properly designed unit.
I don't think Apple is any threat to traditional cable providers or companies like Netflix as long as it costs insane amounts of money to consume lots of content. It is a viable model for someone who's rarely home and only needs a small fraction of the content that others do. But for those of us who do watch a lot of movies, TV shows, etc. the Apple pricing model is a joke.
Also, because of good deals on Blu-rays this holiday season I stocked up on some quality titles for a lot less than it would have cost me to buy a sort-of-HD version from Apple. The pressure is on for Blu-Ray p[ricing to drop to reasonable levels and as that happens, Apple will not be able to continue to charge $20 CDN for a download that is HD of the most minimal quality.
Hey man, poor Balmer got beaten up by the board last year for failing in the smart phone market and the tablet market without really even competing. While Apple and Google sold millions of devices.
Seriously? Did Google sell millions of devices? Google has sold the Nexus and now sells the Nexus S. Have they sold millions of these?
Apple has a problem on it's iTunes Movie store. Probably it's origin is in the Apple "Keep It Simple, Stupid" religion, but it is very annoying : Appel iTunes almost never offer movies with the Original Soundtrack it it is not a language of the store's country. This is especially a problem internationally. For example, in Switzerland there are 4 official languages. Swiss population is also 30% from foreign origin, but Apple never offers movies having multiple language choices. And most importantly they don't offer movies in the original language: All movies are dubbed (German, French or Italian). Some french movies (Taxi4), are even only available dubbed in German.
On public Swiss television, most movies and TV shows are dual sound-channel, meaning one can _always_ choose to hear the real actors instead of a voiceover actor. Movie theaters in Switzerland mostly offer a mix of dubbed or subtitled version with the original soundtrack. And of course DVD's all come with the original soundtracks included.
Hundreds of comments from users on the Swiss iTunes store ask Apple to adapt its technology & infrastructure to include optional subtitles and multiple language tracks (or at least include the original movie's language). Searching for the presence of original language movies is also impossible now. It seems iTunes misses the meaning of "Version originale" / Original language.
A facebook page "ITunesSoundTracks" was created as a discussion / pressure forum.
If Microsoft comes or with a movie store that allows me to view a vast choice of movies on my mac with the original soundtracks, then they'll have me as a client !
Apple is really weak on this front. Take for instance iOS Apps. I'd like to buy some apps for my kids, but I am unable to search for Dutch language support in the app store.
Apple's pricing is horrendous compared to the Netflix model, at least here in Canada. For $8 a month you have access to tons of good programming.
How far would you get on $8 going the Apple route? Something like 1 movie rental and 1 TV show rental, in HD, would set you back here in Canada $7.98.
If you start watching a movie on let's say your laptop, stop for a while, and then pick it back up on the PS3 attached to your HD flatscreen, Netflix remembers where you left off.
I would love for Apple to develop a subscription model to compete with something like that. The idea of spending a small fortune on outright purchases or even a succession of rentals, just to watch a few movies and TV shows doesn't appeal.
Granted a lot of Netflix is not new content but if you haven't seen it, it's like new, and there is a decent selection of good programming that I haven't seen.
By the way, I'm not in a generous mood regarding Microsoft right now, having just endured the infamous Red Ring of Death on my three-year-old Xbox. Had the Kinect attached and apparently lots of people are having issues with their older Xbox consoles when used with the Kinect, especially following a recent update. Sadly the extended warranty on the Xbox expired on Dec. 10 while the unit crashed Jan. 1 so I'm SOL, unless it can be proven that Microsoft botched something that caused compatibility issues between the Xbox and the Kinect.
I have to say that it is rather telling that while it became apparent fairly early on that the original Xbox 360 had a terrible design, it took Microsoft nearly five years to get around to releasing a properly designed unit.
I don't think Apple is any threat to traditional cable providers or companies like Netflix as long as it costs insane amounts of money to consume lots of content. It is a viable model for someone who's rarely home and only needs a small fraction of the content that others do. But for those of us who do watch a lot of movies, TV shows, etc. the Apple pricing model is a joke.
too bad the selection of the netflix cloud sucks. and they lost streaming content when the new year hit. the iTunes prices are the same as Vudu and CinemaNow which have been popping up in TV's.
apple had to release the apple TV or watch iTunes video die
I'm concerned what this whole connected TV is going to do to broadband service. I have cable and I am convinced that they are targeting aTV/Netflix with throttling. When I first got my aTV, Netflix never paused or spooled. Now, I can't watch a single movie without several re-buffering pauses.
I had the cable repair service come out but all he did was change a couple of coax connectors and test the throughput with speedtest. It all checked out but I still have these issues with aTV/Netflix.
Now that you can stream directly to your HDTV, the cable companies are losing their ad revenue, as well as pay per view movies, plus they have to provide the bandwidth for you not to watch their content when you stream content from Apple and Netflix. It is inevitable that there will be regulation soon regarding net neutrality but in the mean time I can't enjoy a movie.
My (recent) memory is a little off but didn't they already do that in the early part of the decade with a product called "WebTV"? I remember seeing those things in dumpsters even just a couple years ago. I put their attempt right alongside WinCE, Microsoft BOB, and Windows ME, and of course.. the Zune.
They bought that company. If memory serves, they paid over $400 million for WebTV. I wonder if they got value for those dollars. I personally knew only one person who ever owned one.
Because the other guys sit on their a** while some other management takes the plunge. Then, if the product is a success, the other folk come rolling in.
Look no further than the ipad. At the begging of 2010 there was so much hate around the net about the ipad it was sickening. And you probably remember Engadget shutting down their comments for few days until people calmed down. Now look, every mofo is pimping out an android tablet or announcing a soon-to-be Honeycomb powered tablet.
And the tired fandroids have found a new narrative, the REAL TABLET OS:HONEYCOMB.
Ha ha! How they back track.
What I find comical is that the Nexus S has no slot for external memory and 16GB internal, thus becoming the first Android phone that copies Apple's memory architecture (and for good reason which I won't get into here). I wonder what the fandroids think of that? Time to backtrack on the "iPhone missing SD card slot" issue too?
too bad the selection of the netflix cloud sucks. and they lost streaming content when the new year hit.
I signed up for my free trial on January 1st. Literally the first twenty things I looked for were either only available as a DVD or not at all. Ended up watching Firefly, which I had seen before. Still, the service worked well. Good use of MS Silverlight.
Apple 46" LED / LG coming in late 2011 with smaller iPad as the remote.
I find it very unlikely for Apple to produce actual TV's. After all, why should they? What can they do producing a TV (where there is cutthroat price competition and a myriad of aspects to cover) what they cannot establish using something like Apple TV? I casn only think of one thing: a front facing camera so the TV becomes a video conferencing unit using FaceTime. But adding a iSightForTV to the AppleTV is a lot easier and will also attach to all the TV's already in existence.
What I find comical is that the Nexus S has no slot for external memory and 16GB internal, thus becoming the first Android phone that copies Apple's memory architecture (and for good reason which I won't get into here). I wonder what the fandroids think of that? Time to backtrack on the "iPhone missing SD card slot" issue too?
The built-in NAND will speed up data read/writes tremendously and along with all the other features it?s the Android-based smartphone I?d buy for myself if I were to move to Android today.
Even if other Android-based smartphones or even entire vendors exclude the microSD slot surely there will be enough that will offer an SD card that Android users will be able to say that they at least have the option to get a microSD slot or not, which from their PoV is a valid argument, albeit one that isn?t an issue for the average user.
I find it very unlikely for Apple to produce actual TV's. After all, why should they? What can they do producing a TV (where there is cutthroat price competition and a myriad of aspects to cover) what they cannot establish using something like Apple TV? I casn only think of one thing: a front facing camera so the TV becomes a video conferencing unit using FaceTime. But adding a iSightForTV to the AppleTV is a lot easier and will also attach to all the TV's already in existence.
My $0.02: no Apple TV, just AppleTV
A bit off topic, but one thing I?ve been wanting for years is a standardized way for TVs to act as passthroughs for the IR sensor and now a camera. Not unlike PC monitors. It would be nice to a FaceTime camera on any number of TVs ? Apple seems to be dropping iSight to market the new term ? that could be used by the AppleTV or other media extender appliances or HTPCs as the user sees fit.
Really? Just, really? M$ copying Apple (and others) with every damn thing has just become so blatant and pathetic it's beyond imagination. And they're so bad at it. Without a monopoly, they've got nothing.
And this set-top box idea is really stupid. If they were smart, they would evolve the Playsta... err, Xbox into a single gaming/set-top box device. Leverage the product they already have. It would actually differentiate them from the competition, and give them a leg up.
Imagine a single box that plays HD (Blu-ray) discs, the latest games, and can stream HD content from connected PCs and the Internet. Nobody has that right now. I would be tempted to buy one; actually, I would buy one if it could play industry standard formats (aac, h.264) besides proprietary wma crap.
Oh, wait, sorry, Microsoft, please go ahead and build a separate set-top box, yes please go ahead, that's a good plan...
Comments
Microsoft, why not try inventing some new stuff a change instead of leeching off everyone else?
i'm not at all suggesting that Apple is THE progenitor of all great ideas however why is it that when Apple is involved in a certain category of product somehow legitimizes it for bigger companies such as Microsoft, now Google, to enter even if that category of product had already existed before Apple's entry?
Hmm I am pretty sure that Microsoft has been doing this for a while. Windows Media Center XP edition came out in 2002. Then the Xbox 360 has had online rentals, streaming from SMB shares, the ability to act as a Media Center Extender and it was one of if not the first device to get Netflix.
Sorry off topic .. I'd totally disagree. Yes they may be over used, yes they be used incorrectly at times. However, they add a dimension to writing previously absent to all but the most skilled writer, the ability to ... yes you guessed it ... show the emotional intent behind the comment. Add in the fact blogs are often terse and very susceptible to misinterpretation and they can become invaluable in avoiding any such issues.
Can't be said often enough.
+1
MS is saying another year before they have anything, but I think they have a better shot with the content deals they already have on Zune.
name a feature of the apple TV that didn't appear in another product before ATV2 came out?
Pretty much EVERYTHING in life is derivative. 100%, out-of-the-blue, never even thought of before doesn't happen much, if at all.
Check out the old 'Connections' series on PBS.
Real innovation is taking existing ideas and combining them in an original and usable way that gains mass acceptance, maybe adding a new spin here and there.
Top of that heap? Apple.
Lots of tired old cliches in the comments here, probably from people who have never used Windows Media Center. It has a lot going for it. The remote believe it or not is very simple, the interface is slick and effective, the onscreen guide is the best I've ever seen, it supports OTA and QAM tuners, it has the best DVR abilities and interface I know of, ...
If you've never used it it's easy to bash it.
You mean this remote?
Yeah, and we could connect our Macs to TVs before Windows Media Center came out, but so what? This is a new dedicated set top box we're talking about here, not a Media Center PC. The question is, what will MS bring to the market that isn't already there?
A Mac could not do what Windows Media Center PC could do with out 3rd party software. I think this new device will be a third option. You will have....
Windows Media Center PC
Xbox 360
New Device
All three will pretty much do the same thing when it comes to TV viewing, stream internet content from Microsofts store like the 360 has done for 5 years now, stream media from a Windows PC, (Like Apple TV does with iTunes on a computer), have plugins like "Netflix" like the 360/Media Center have had for a while now.
I think each device may have some unique capabilities like a TV tuner card in a Windows Media Center PC. The 360 can play your Zune Pass content, I would imagine that this could be put in the new device as well.
The new device will target people that dont want a 360 and dont want full blown Windows Media Center PC, and at a cheaper price.
How far would you get on $8 going the Apple route? Something like 1 movie rental and 1 TV show rental, in HD, would set you back here in Canada $7.98.
If you start watching a movie on let's say your laptop, stop for a while, and then pick it back up on the PS3 attached to your HD flatscreen, Netflix remembers where you left off.
I would love for Apple to develop a subscription model to compete with something like that. The idea of spending a small fortune on outright purchases or even a succession of rentals, just to watch a few movies and TV shows doesn't appeal.
Granted a lot of Netflix is not new content but if you haven't seen it, it's like new, and there is a decent selection of good programming that I haven't seen.
By the way, I'm not in a generous mood regarding Microsoft right now, having just endured the infamous Red Ring of Death on my three-year-old Xbox. Had the Kinect attached and apparently lots of people are having issues with their older Xbox consoles when used with the Kinect, especially following a recent update. Sadly the extended warranty on the Xbox expired on Dec. 10 while the unit crashed Jan. 1 so I'm SOL, unless it can be proven that Microsoft botched something that caused compatibility issues between the Xbox and the Kinect.
I have to say that it is rather telling that while it became apparent fairly early on that the original Xbox 360 had a terrible design, it took Microsoft nearly five years to get around to releasing a properly designed unit.
I don't think Apple is any threat to traditional cable providers or companies like Netflix as long as it costs insane amounts of money to consume lots of content. It is a viable model for someone who's rarely home and only needs a small fraction of the content that others do. But for those of us who do watch a lot of movies, TV shows, etc. the Apple pricing model is a joke.
Also, because of good deals on Blu-rays this holiday season I stocked up on some quality titles for a lot less than it would have cost me to buy a sort-of-HD version from Apple. The pressure is on for Blu-Ray p[ricing to drop to reasonable levels and as that happens, Apple will not be able to continue to charge $20 CDN for a download that is HD of the most minimal quality.
Hey man, poor Balmer got beaten up by the board last year for failing in the smart phone market and the tablet market without really even competing. While Apple and Google sold millions of devices.
Seriously? Did Google sell millions of devices? Google has sold the Nexus and now sells the Nexus S. Have they sold millions of these?
Apple has a problem on it's iTunes Movie store. Probably it's origin is in the Apple "Keep It Simple, Stupid" religion, but it is very annoying : Appel iTunes almost never offer movies with the Original Soundtrack it it is not a language of the store's country. This is especially a problem internationally. For example, in Switzerland there are 4 official languages. Swiss population is also 30% from foreign origin, but Apple never offers movies having multiple language choices. And most importantly they don't offer movies in the original language: All movies are dubbed (German, French or Italian). Some french movies (Taxi4), are even only available dubbed in German.
On public Swiss television, most movies and TV shows are dual sound-channel, meaning one can _always_ choose to hear the real actors instead of a voiceover actor. Movie theaters in Switzerland mostly offer a mix of dubbed or subtitled version with the original soundtrack. And of course DVD's all come with the original soundtracks included.
Hundreds of comments from users on the Swiss iTunes store ask Apple to adapt its technology & infrastructure to include optional subtitles and multiple language tracks (or at least include the original movie's language). Searching for the presence of original language movies is also impossible now. It seems iTunes misses the meaning of "Version originale" / Original language.
A facebook page "ITunesSoundTracks" was created as a discussion / pressure forum.
If Microsoft comes or with a movie store that allows me to view a vast choice of movies on my mac with the original soundtracks, then they'll have me as a client !
Apple is really weak on this front. Take for instance iOS Apps. I'd like to buy some apps for my kids, but I am unable to search for Dutch language support in the app store.
Apple's pricing is horrendous compared to the Netflix model, at least here in Canada. For $8 a month you have access to tons of good programming.
How far would you get on $8 going the Apple route? Something like 1 movie rental and 1 TV show rental, in HD, would set you back here in Canada $7.98.
If you start watching a movie on let's say your laptop, stop for a while, and then pick it back up on the PS3 attached to your HD flatscreen, Netflix remembers where you left off.
I would love for Apple to develop a subscription model to compete with something like that. The idea of spending a small fortune on outright purchases or even a succession of rentals, just to watch a few movies and TV shows doesn't appeal.
Granted a lot of Netflix is not new content but if you haven't seen it, it's like new, and there is a decent selection of good programming that I haven't seen.
By the way, I'm not in a generous mood regarding Microsoft right now, having just endured the infamous Red Ring of Death on my three-year-old Xbox. Had the Kinect attached and apparently lots of people are having issues with their older Xbox consoles when used with the Kinect, especially following a recent update. Sadly the extended warranty on the Xbox expired on Dec. 10 while the unit crashed Jan. 1 so I'm SOL, unless it can be proven that Microsoft botched something that caused compatibility issues between the Xbox and the Kinect.
I have to say that it is rather telling that while it became apparent fairly early on that the original Xbox 360 had a terrible design, it took Microsoft nearly five years to get around to releasing a properly designed unit.
I don't think Apple is any threat to traditional cable providers or companies like Netflix as long as it costs insane amounts of money to consume lots of content. It is a viable model for someone who's rarely home and only needs a small fraction of the content that others do. But for those of us who do watch a lot of movies, TV shows, etc. the Apple pricing model is a joke.
too bad the selection of the netflix cloud sucks. and they lost streaming content when the new year hit. the iTunes prices are the same as Vudu and CinemaNow which have been popping up in TV's.
apple had to release the apple TV or watch iTunes video die
I had the cable repair service come out but all he did was change a couple of coax connectors and test the throughput with speedtest. It all checked out but I still have these issues with aTV/Netflix.
Now that you can stream directly to your HDTV, the cable companies are losing their ad revenue, as well as pay per view movies, plus they have to provide the bandwidth for you not to watch their content when you stream content from Apple and Netflix. It is inevitable that there will be regulation soon regarding net neutrality but in the mean time I can't enjoy a movie.
My (recent) memory is a little off but didn't they already do that in the early part of the decade with a product called "WebTV"? I remember seeing those things in dumpsters even just a couple years ago. I put their attempt right alongside WinCE, Microsoft BOB, and Windows ME, and of course.. the Zune.
They bought that company. If memory serves, they paid over $400 million for WebTV. I wonder if they got value for those dollars. I personally knew only one person who ever owned one.
Because the other guys sit on their a** while some other management takes the plunge. Then, if the product is a success, the other folk come rolling in.
Look no further than the ipad. At the begging of 2010 there was so much hate around the net about the ipad it was sickening. And you probably remember Engadget shutting down their comments for few days until people calmed down. Now look, every mofo is pimping out an android tablet or announcing a soon-to-be Honeycomb powered tablet.
And the tired fandroids have found a new narrative, the REAL TABLET OS:HONEYCOMB.
Ha ha! How they back track.
What I find comical is that the Nexus S has no slot for external memory and 16GB internal, thus becoming the first Android phone that copies Apple's memory architecture (and for good reason which I won't get into here). I wonder what the fandroids think of that? Time to backtrack on the "iPhone missing SD card slot" issue too?
too bad the selection of the netflix cloud sucks. and they lost streaming content when the new year hit.
I signed up for my free trial on January 1st. Literally the first twenty things I looked for were either only available as a DVD or not at all. Ended up watching Firefly, which I had seen before. Still, the service worked well. Good use of MS Silverlight.
Apple 46" LED / LG coming in late 2011 with smaller iPad as the remote.
I find it very unlikely for Apple to produce actual TV's. After all, why should they? What can they do producing a TV (where there is cutthroat price competition and a myriad of aspects to cover) what they cannot establish using something like Apple TV? I casn only think of one thing: a front facing camera so the TV becomes a video conferencing unit using FaceTime. But adding a iSightForTV to the AppleTV is a lot easier and will also attach to all the TV's already in existence.
My $0.02: no Apple TV, just AppleTV
What I find comical is that the Nexus S has no slot for external memory and 16GB internal, thus becoming the first Android phone that copies Apple's memory architecture (and for good reason which I won't get into here). I wonder what the fandroids think of that? Time to backtrack on the "iPhone missing SD card slot" issue too?
The built-in NAND will speed up data read/writes tremendously and along with all the other features it?s the Android-based smartphone I?d buy for myself if I were to move to Android today.
Even if other Android-based smartphones or even entire vendors exclude the microSD slot surely there will be enough that will offer an SD card that Android users will be able to say that they at least have the option to get a microSD slot or not, which from their PoV is a valid argument, albeit one that isn?t an issue for the average user.
I find it very unlikely for Apple to produce actual TV's. After all, why should they? What can they do producing a TV (where there is cutthroat price competition and a myriad of aspects to cover) what they cannot establish using something like Apple TV? I casn only think of one thing: a front facing camera so the TV becomes a video conferencing unit using FaceTime. But adding a iSightForTV to the AppleTV is a lot easier and will also attach to all the TV's already in existence.
My $0.02: no Apple TV, just AppleTV
A bit off topic, but one thing I?ve been wanting for years is a standardized way for TVs to act as passthroughs for the IR sensor and now a camera. Not unlike PC monitors. It would be nice to a FaceTime camera on any number of TVs ? Apple seems to be dropping iSight to market the new term ? that could be used by the AppleTV or other media extender appliances or HTPCs as the user sees fit.
And this set-top box idea is really stupid. If they were smart, they would evolve the Playsta... err, Xbox into a single gaming/set-top box device. Leverage the product they already have. It would actually differentiate them from the competition, and give them a leg up.
Imagine a single box that plays HD (Blu-ray) discs, the latest games, and can stream HD content from connected PCs and the Internet. Nobody has that right now. I would be tempted to buy one; actually, I would buy one if it could play industry standard formats (aac, h.264) besides proprietary wma crap.
Oh, wait, sorry, Microsoft, please go ahead and build a separate set-top box, yes please go ahead, that's a good plan...