I know people hate microsoft here but i figured apple fans would be exited about the new touch technology microsoft and samsung came up with.
IF you watched the keynot speech the new surface 2 can actually see whats put ontop of it. they had a debug screen that showed you what the surface sees.
No I am not excited. The last "exciting" thing Microsoft came up was its touch table. And where is it today? Any products in sight after several years? Nothing.
No one should get their hopes for anything useful from Microsoft, unless they buy something off the shelf like the Kinnect product...
How is developing Windows for ARM "admitting defeat in the tablet space"? I'm not following you. That could be the only thing that saves Microsoft in the tablet and laptop/sub-laptop space, if they can pull it off in 2 years.
It's admitting defeat because there is no new ui layer on top of windows. Windows tablets have been around forever, but have not sold very well because desktop ui does not work well on mobile. Simply transitioning to arm means nothing, because apple transitioned osx to intel without changing the os one bit from the user prospective. Therefore, even an arm version of windows is still windows and if history is any guide will not sell well and will not match the usability of android palm or iOS.
But it?s true. For MS I can?t think of a bigger announcement. Windows being made to run on a differnet architecture for the first time whilst Apple is on 3 for desktop and 4 if you count the iOS port. And an actual success with selling HW. That?s big news.
Well, it's particularly newsworthy since Nvidia is now looking to ARM/GPU designs to power servers*. I think Apple may also be headed in this direction, too, on the desktop/laptop, with the recent emphasis on GCD, OpenCL, Clang/LLVM.
Precisely, and it was the case at Digg. They wanted to silence a very good spokesperson for the truth about the tech industry.
It's quite telling when they focus more on discrediting the writer than what he writes that they don't actually have a real rebuttal so all they are left with is attacking the messenger.
But it?s true. For MS I can?t think of a bigger announcement. Windows being made to run on a differnet architecture for the first time whilst Apple is on 3 for desktop and 4 if you count the iOS port. And an actual success with selling HW. That?s big news.
windows used to run on 4 different architectures in the 1990's. the DEC Alpha was the fastest at running NT4, but no one bought them due to cost. it still runs on IA64 but no one buys those either.
But it’s true. For MS I can’t think of a bigger announcement. Windows being made to run on a differnet architecture for the first time whilst Apple is on 3 for desktop and 4 if you count the iOS port. And an actual success with selling HW. That’s big news.
I want to see what will come of the arm development. Will we see an evolution of Windows to fit the ARM architecture? If so, how will it evolve? Has Ballmer looked at OSX and iOS and decided to explore the possibilities of some form of Windows lite for ARM? Is Windows itself going to change overall?
I think Ballmer is just giving us a peak at the direction MS is taking... just to let everyone know they are not in a coma.
MS has the $$$ to go out exploring for a while and still be able to come back with a bang. I'm not counting them out just yet but I really don't think Ballmer is the man for the job.
MS has time. iOS is nice but it's a minimal feature set compared to OS X and Windows. and it's growing. I believe the size of the OS doubled from the original iphone to iOS4 and will go up again once iOS 5 is released. same with the iPad version. as apple adds new features the size of the Os will go up. same with the hardware requirements. just try to run iOS 4 on a 3G
at some point i the next 1-3 years the size of iOS and WinARM will be about the same along with hardware requirements
Kinect is incredibly popular. 8 million units of an expensive add-on device for a 5 year old console is nothing short of phenomenal... but to do it in 2 months is almost unbelievable.
It is, in fact, unbelievable.
Clarifications by Microsoft since the announcement have confirmed that they have only shipped 8 million to vendors, not 8 million sales.
But it doesn't really matter. The "8 million sales" point has already been repeated enough that at this point it might as well be true.
windows used to run on 4 different architectures in the 1990's. the DEC Alpha was the fastest at running NT4, but no one bought them due to cost. it still runs on IA64 but no one buys those either.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I want to see what will come of the arm development. Will we see an evolution of Windows to fit the ARM architecture? If so, how will it evolve? Has Ballmer looked at OSX and iOS and decided to explore the possibilities of some form of Windows lite for ARM? Is Windows itself going to change overall?
Looking at how Win7 ran on the Atom and what we can expect from future ARM chips by the time Win8 is out I would expect it to run as well. it?ll never win any performance tests against x86, but it could cheap enough and power friendly enough to allow MS to sell servers with batteries of ARM CPUs and move into the cheaper markets that Chrome OS and Android will try to weasel into.
Quote:
I think Ballmer is just giving us a peak at the direction MS is taking... just to let everyone know they are not in a coma.
For better or for worse, this is a new MS. I like what they?ve done with WP7 thus far.
Clarifications by Microsoft since the announcement have confirmed that they have only shipped 8 million to vendors, not 8 million sales.
But it doesn't really matter. The "8 million sales" point has already been repeated enough that at this point it might as well be true.
they didn't order 8 million if they didn't think they can sell them. i was watching fatwallet and almost no discounting on kinect or x-box. yet by mid december there was a $100 gift card deal for a PS3 bundle and PS3 Move was also on sale
with HULU+ coming i'm going to have to see about cutting out cable
It's absolute madness that Microsoft still don't have an entry into the "tablet" market at this stage.
The issue is that they are a software company. They need partners to make the devices and software that will make potentials choose it and not Android etc
As for the 'ready to order', what is my delivery date. I don't want another Slate where less than 10k were built and now I am waiting as long as two months for my tablet. By then, I can probably walk into a store and walk out with an iPad 2. Sure it is an inferior device but inferior is better than nothing
at some point i the next 1-3 years the size of iOS and WinARM will be about the same along with hardware requirements
That seems pretty unlikely. Windows7 compiled to run on ARM is still Windows. iOS is first and foremost a mobile touch screen operating system, and added functionality still doesn't bring all the legacy cruft of Windows.
Now if MS wants to take their ARM version and start radically reworking it to create a mobile touch specific version, then sure-- I could see iOS and such an animal having similar footprints and hardware requirements (although Apple seems to be more focused on efficiency and power optimization than the competition, so there would probably always be a gap). But that would be because Windows Mobile Edition or whatever had gotten more compact, not because iOS had gotten bigger and less efficient.
And, anyway, none of that is likely to happen because MS already has a touch based mobile OS in the form of Windows Phone 7, based on the separate CE OS. It would seem pointless for MS to start trying to drive Windows per se into CE territory, hardware requirement wise, instead of trying to expand the capacities of CE.
Of course this a problem that Apple will never have-- as hardware gets more capable, they can steadily add OS X features until the two OS versions are on par, with the only difference being the UI.
they didn't order 8 million if they didn't think they can sell them.
Thinking they can sell them and doing it is two different things
Quote:
i was watching fatwallet and almost no discounting on kinect or x-box. yet by mid december there was a $100 gift card deal for a PS3 bundle and PS3 Move was also on sale
sales during the holiday season, how scandalous.
It could mean low sales for the PS3 or it could be loss leaders, attempt to flood the market by giving retailers a killer deal on units, who knows. But it doesn't automatically mean anything. Nor does the lack of kinect etc discounts
it is at least obvious to most here all your ranting about Mr. Dilger would suggest that he has spurned your amorous advances at some point and is now the exclusive (besides all things Applesque) recipient of your extreme vitriole. The heavy-handed hate posts leads the observer to regard your extreme expressions as hiding an unhealthy "fatal" attraction to the blogging Dilger. You may want to rethink your approach if you want to dispell this pervasive perception, or perhap some "me" time away from these threads to find some other attraction to fixate upon.
We love you and only want you to be healthy and happy.
Thinking they can sell them and doing it is two different things
sales during the holiday season, how scandalous.
It could mean low sales for the PS3 or it could be loss leaders, attempt to flood the market by giving retailers a killer deal on units, who knows. But it doesn't automatically mean anything. Nor does the lack of kinect etc discounts
I know people hate microsoft here but i figured apple fans would be exited about the new touch technology microsoft and samsung came up with.
IF you watched the keynot speech the new surface 2 can actually see whats put ontop of it. they had a debug screen that showed you what the surface sees.
IF apple licensed this they could make ipads and iphones even better in the touch department.
PS keep in mind this is a consumer expo . New products usually are saved for their own events. Like at the technet events e3 and other places.
The new Surface 2 is (like the original) using four higher resolution cameras mounted below the surface to read what is put on the surface. Just like when they demo'd putting a camera on it and having the photos "spill" out - the cameras were reading discrete microdot labels put on the devices, so the PC running the Surface could tell what the device was. This is categorically NOT touch technology, and it is old school. In fact it was within weeks of the announcement about the Surface, that a couple of garage builders successfully demo'd (briefly) their version of the Surface and were told to remove it under pressure by Microsoft - who was a sponsor of the Maker Faire they were at.
So while the Surface can "see" what's on it, via the four cameras beneath the top, nothing about this technology is new or innovative - merely derivative and designed to distract you from the lack of real innovation or real interaction with the surface. It is the old smoke and mirrors routine designed to fool the unwary and uninformed.
Bill Gates got out just in time. Now nobody can blame Microsoft's stagnation on him (even though he laid the groundwork for the company getting stuck in its current rut.)
"Underwhelms with few surprises" pretty much sums up Microsoft's performance in the Ballmer era.
... PS keep in mind this is a consumer expo . New products usually are saved for their own events. ...
CES is for industry insiders and the media. It's not for average Joe consumers.
Yes, the products happen to mostly be in the consumer space. And since this is one of the biggest technology events of the year, most consumer electronics manufacturers don't "save" products for their own events. They're forced to show their stuff at CES.
All except Apple of course. Apple has their own product cycles, and they don't need a booth at CES. Every single pad computer, smart phone, mobile internet device, portable media player, netbook, laptop, and connected TV will be compared against an Apple product. In the press and in attendees minds.
And everyone attending CES knows that the Verizon iPhone is coming in a few weeks, and that iPad 2 is looming on the horizon. Apple casts a huge shadow over CES. And it gets free publicity from every single challenger.
That seems pretty unlikely. Windows7 compiled to run on ARM is still Windows. iOS is first and foremost a mobile touch screen operating system, and added functionality still doesn't bring all the legacy cruft of Windows.
Now if MS wants to take their ARM version and start radically reworking it to create a mobile touch specific version, then sure-- I could see iOS and such an animal having similar footprints and hardware requirements (although Apple seems to be more focused on efficiency and power optimization than the competition, so there would probably always be a gap). But that would be because Windows Mobile Edition or whatever had gotten more compact, not because iOS had gotten bigger and less efficient.
And, anyway, none of that is likely to happen because MS already has a touch based mobile OS in the form of Windows Phone 7, based on the separate CE OS. It would seem pointless for MS to start trying to drive Windows per se into CE territory, hardware requirement wise, instead of trying to expand the capacities of CE.
Of course this a problem that Apple will never have-- as hardware gets more capable, they can steadily add OS X features until the two OS versions are on par, with the only difference being the UI.
it's not that hard to get rid of Windows legacy to save space. most of it is just multiple dll files to point apps to compatible versions. get rid of those and the driver database and the OS is pretty small
Comments
I know people hate microsoft here but i figured apple fans would be exited about the new touch technology microsoft and samsung came up with.
IF you watched the keynot speech the new surface 2 can actually see whats put ontop of it. they had a debug screen that showed you what the surface sees.
No I am not excited. The last "exciting" thing Microsoft came up was its touch table. And where is it today? Any products in sight after several years? Nothing.
No one should get their hopes for anything useful from Microsoft, unless they buy something off the shelf like the Kinnect product...
How is developing Windows for ARM "admitting defeat in the tablet space"? I'm not following you. That could be the only thing that saves Microsoft in the tablet and laptop/sub-laptop space, if they can pull it off in 2 years.
It's admitting defeat because there is no new ui layer on top of windows. Windows tablets have been around forever, but have not sold very well because desktop ui does not work well on mobile. Simply transitioning to arm means nothing, because apple transitioned osx to intel without changing the os one bit from the user prospective. Therefore, even an arm version of windows is still windows and if history is any guide will not sell well and will not match the usability of android palm or iOS.
Because, clearly, some people feel very threatened by what he writes.
Precisely, and it was the case at Digg. They wanted to silence a very good spokesperson for the truth about the tech industry.
But it?s true. For MS I can?t think of a bigger announcement. Windows being made to run on a differnet architecture for the first time whilst Apple is on 3 for desktop and 4 if you count the iOS port. And an actual success with selling HW. That?s big news.
Well, it's particularly newsworthy since Nvidia is now looking to ARM/GPU designs to power servers*. I think Apple may also be headed in this direction, too, on the desktop/laptop, with the recent emphasis on GCD, OpenCL, Clang/LLVM.
* http://www.nytimes.com/external/giga...ill-48502.html
Precisely, and it was the case at Digg. They wanted to silence a very good spokesperson for the truth about the tech industry.
It's quite telling when they focus more on discrediting the writer than what he writes that they don't actually have a real rebuttal so all they are left with is attacking the messenger.
But it?s true. For MS I can?t think of a bigger announcement. Windows being made to run on a differnet architecture for the first time whilst Apple is on 3 for desktop and 4 if you count the iOS port. And an actual success with selling HW. That?s big news.
windows used to run on 4 different architectures in the 1990's. the DEC Alpha was the fastest at running NT4, but no one bought them due to cost. it still runs on IA64 but no one buys those either.
But it’s true. For MS I can’t think of a bigger announcement. Windows being made to run on a differnet architecture for the first time whilst Apple is on 3 for desktop and 4 if you count the iOS port. And an actual success with selling HW. That’s big news.
I want to see what will come of the arm development. Will we see an evolution of Windows to fit the ARM architecture? If so, how will it evolve? Has Ballmer looked at OSX and iOS and decided to explore the possibilities of some form of Windows lite for ARM? Is Windows itself going to change overall?
I think Ballmer is just giving us a peak at the direction MS is taking... just to let everyone know they are not in a coma.
MS has the $$$ to go out exploring for a while and still be able to come back with a bang. I'm not counting them out just yet but I really don't think Ballmer is the man for the job.
at some point i the next 1-3 years the size of iOS and WinARM will be about the same along with hardware requirements
Kinect is incredibly popular. 8 million units of an expensive add-on device for a 5 year old console is nothing short of phenomenal... but to do it in 2 months is almost unbelievable.
It is, in fact, unbelievable.
Clarifications by Microsoft since the announcement have confirmed that they have only shipped 8 million to vendors, not 8 million sales.
But it doesn't really matter. The "8 million sales" point has already been repeated enough that at this point it might as well be true.
windows used to run on 4 different architectures in the 1990's. the DEC Alpha was the fastest at running NT4, but no one bought them due to cost. it still runs on IA64 but no one buys those either.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
I want to see what will come of the arm development. Will we see an evolution of Windows to fit the ARM architecture? If so, how will it evolve? Has Ballmer looked at OSX and iOS and decided to explore the possibilities of some form of Windows lite for ARM? Is Windows itself going to change overall?
Looking at how Win7 ran on the Atom and what we can expect from future ARM chips by the time Win8 is out I would expect it to run as well. it?ll never win any performance tests against x86, but it could cheap enough and power friendly enough to allow MS to sell servers with batteries of ARM CPUs and move into the cheaper markets that Chrome OS and Android will try to weasel into.
I think Ballmer is just giving us a peak at the direction MS is taking... just to let everyone know they are not in a coma.
For better or for worse, this is a new MS. I like what they?ve done with WP7 thus far.
It is, in fact, unbelievable.
Clarifications by Microsoft since the announcement have confirmed that they have only shipped 8 million to vendors, not 8 million sales.
But it doesn't really matter. The "8 million sales" point has already been repeated enough that at this point it might as well be true.
they didn't order 8 million if they didn't think they can sell them. i was watching fatwallet and almost no discounting on kinect or x-box. yet by mid december there was a $100 gift card deal for a PS3 bundle and PS3 Move was also on sale
with HULU+ coming i'm going to have to see about cutting out cable
It's absolute madness that Microsoft still don't have an entry into the "tablet" market at this stage.
The issue is that they are a software company. They need partners to make the devices and software that will make potentials choose it and not Android etc
As for the 'ready to order', what is my delivery date. I don't want another Slate where less than 10k were built and now I am waiting as long as two months for my tablet. By then, I can probably walk into a store and walk out with an iPad 2. Sure it is an inferior device but inferior is better than nothing
at some point i the next 1-3 years the size of iOS and WinARM will be about the same along with hardware requirements
That seems pretty unlikely. Windows7 compiled to run on ARM is still Windows. iOS is first and foremost a mobile touch screen operating system, and added functionality still doesn't bring all the legacy cruft of Windows.
Now if MS wants to take their ARM version and start radically reworking it to create a mobile touch specific version, then sure-- I could see iOS and such an animal having similar footprints and hardware requirements (although Apple seems to be more focused on efficiency and power optimization than the competition, so there would probably always be a gap). But that would be because Windows Mobile Edition or whatever had gotten more compact, not because iOS had gotten bigger and less efficient.
And, anyway, none of that is likely to happen because MS already has a touch based mobile OS in the form of Windows Phone 7, based on the separate CE OS. It would seem pointless for MS to start trying to drive Windows per se into CE territory, hardware requirement wise, instead of trying to expand the capacities of CE.
Of course this a problem that Apple will never have-- as hardware gets more capable, they can steadily add OS X features until the two OS versions are on par, with the only difference being the UI.
they didn't order 8 million if they didn't think they can sell them.
Thinking they can sell them and doing it is two different things
i was watching fatwallet and almost no discounting on kinect or x-box. yet by mid december there was a $100 gift card deal for a PS3 bundle and PS3 Move was also on sale
sales during the holiday season, how scandalous.
It could mean low sales for the PS3 or it could be loss leaders, attempt to flood the market by giving retailers a killer deal on units, who knows. But it doesn't automatically mean anything. Nor does the lack of kinect etc discounts
DED wrote this with out a doubt.
it is at least obvious to most here all your ranting about Mr. Dilger would suggest that he has spurned your amorous advances at some point and is now the exclusive (besides all things Applesque) recipient of your extreme vitriole. The heavy-handed hate posts leads the observer to regard your extreme expressions as hiding an unhealthy "fatal" attraction to the blogging Dilger. You may want to rethink your approach if you want to dispell this pervasive perception, or perhap some "me" time away from these threads to find some other attraction to fixate upon.
We love you and only want you to be healthy and happy.
Thinking they can sell them and doing it is two different things
sales during the holiday season, how scandalous.
It could mean low sales for the PS3 or it could be loss leaders, attempt to flood the market by giving retailers a killer deal on units, who knows. But it doesn't automatically mean anything. Nor does the lack of kinect etc discounts
Aaron Greenberg, Chief of Staff for Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft
@therealcliffyb We have no channel inventory, so essentially the same #....every Kinect we make we sell.
I know people hate microsoft here but i figured apple fans would be exited about the new touch technology microsoft and samsung came up with.
IF you watched the keynot speech the new surface 2 can actually see whats put ontop of it. they had a debug screen that showed you what the surface sees.
IF apple licensed this they could make ipads and iphones even better in the touch department.
PS keep in mind this is a consumer expo . New products usually are saved for their own events. Like at the technet events e3 and other places.
The new Surface 2 is (like the original) using four higher resolution cameras mounted below the surface to read what is put on the surface. Just like when they demo'd putting a camera on it and having the photos "spill" out - the cameras were reading discrete microdot labels put on the devices, so the PC running the Surface could tell what the device was. This is categorically NOT touch technology, and it is old school. In fact it was within weeks of the announcement about the Surface, that a couple of garage builders successfully demo'd (briefly) their version of the Surface and were told to remove it under pressure by Microsoft - who was a sponsor of the Maker Faire they were at.
So while the Surface can "see" what's on it, via the four cameras beneath the top, nothing about this technology is new or innovative - merely derivative and designed to distract you from the lack of real innovation or real interaction with the surface. It is the old smoke and mirrors routine designed to fool the unwary and uninformed.
"Underwhelms with few surprises" pretty much sums up Microsoft's performance in the Ballmer era.
... PS keep in mind this is a consumer expo . New products usually are saved for their own events. ...
CES is for industry insiders and the media. It's not for average Joe consumers.
Yes, the products happen to mostly be in the consumer space. And since this is one of the biggest technology events of the year, most consumer electronics manufacturers don't "save" products for their own events. They're forced to show their stuff at CES.
All except Apple of course. Apple has their own product cycles, and they don't need a booth at CES. Every single pad computer, smart phone, mobile internet device, portable media player, netbook, laptop, and connected TV will be compared against an Apple product. In the press and in attendees minds.
And everyone attending CES knows that the Verizon iPhone is coming in a few weeks, and that iPad 2 is looming on the horizon. Apple casts a huge shadow over CES. And it gets free publicity from every single challenger.
Free publicity for Apple.
All day, every day.
Live from CES.
That seems pretty unlikely. Windows7 compiled to run on ARM is still Windows. iOS is first and foremost a mobile touch screen operating system, and added functionality still doesn't bring all the legacy cruft of Windows.
Now if MS wants to take their ARM version and start radically reworking it to create a mobile touch specific version, then sure-- I could see iOS and such an animal having similar footprints and hardware requirements (although Apple seems to be more focused on efficiency and power optimization than the competition, so there would probably always be a gap). But that would be because Windows Mobile Edition or whatever had gotten more compact, not because iOS had gotten bigger and less efficient.
And, anyway, none of that is likely to happen because MS already has a touch based mobile OS in the form of Windows Phone 7, based on the separate CE OS. It would seem pointless for MS to start trying to drive Windows per se into CE territory, hardware requirement wise, instead of trying to expand the capacities of CE.
Of course this a problem that Apple will never have-- as hardware gets more capable, they can steadily add OS X features until the two OS versions are on par, with the only difference being the UI.
it's not that hard to get rid of Windows legacy to save space. most of it is just multiple dll files to point apps to compatible versions. get rid of those and the driver database and the OS is pretty small