So, sounds like Apple is overcharging, just a bit, doesn't it?
Hardly overcharging. Its called 'economies of scale'. The other 49% of profit is across hundreds of different models of phones from multiple companies, who had to develop, market and service all those different handsets. How many models does Apple sell? Can anyone keep track of how many Android phones were just announces last week? Thats why no Android can come close to build quality of iPhones....
51% of profit comes from 1 model (now with a second variant).
Well, Microsoft just made LESS revenue and MORE profit than Apple. For a company whose main cash-cow products are essentially "duplicate at zero cost" bits...
It is only a rip off if you do not see the value and never wanted to pay that much.
To add to what you said, Value is a function of Cost/Price and Benefit. If Value is too low then the balance of Cost/Price and Benefit is wrong. Cost/Price is only too high if Benefit is too low, which would be reflected in low Value.
If Cost/Price is high, but benefit is also high then Value will be high and everything is okay.
WARNING! Potentially cautstic sarcasm! Wear your big-boy undies!!!
While you roll your eyes I am putting on my big boy undies so I can stand next to you. There! Now I am just like you.
Quote:
Back on topic, the profits are what allow Apple to forward speculate for future devices and to leverage technologies which are now bleeding edge but could become mainstream. You do not drive as much innovation as Apple does by immediately turning around and pouring all the profits back out the door in philanthropic ardor!
Who's arguing? But with 50 billion in the bank and recognized as one of the most profitable HW companies they would hardly be 'immediately turning around and pouring all the profits back out the door in philanthropic ardor'
Quote:
Do you know what aid Apple is providing to non-profit orgs, what money gets matched to employee contributions and what key needs orgs are actively supported? Does Apple NEED to tell you this because there is so much negative publicity to counter (which is usually when a corporate office releases those news items)? How about a break-down of the philanthropies supported by the BOD or the executive officers? Would that help? And did you miss all the articles in which the specifics about Apple's requirements for their suppliers were on record in support of their workers?
You clearly didn't read my post, but no, Apple doesn't NEED to do anything they don't want to do. I'd LIKE them to do something more public about these things, is what I am saying. When you are as big, as successful and as profitable as Apple it would be great to see them lead the way and be 'different' in this regard. I look for the cheapest deal like the next guy but it bothers me knowing that the only way I can get my cheap luxury goods some other guy can't adequately fend for his family. I have nothing against successful companies or people but I'd like to think the more successful you are the more ethical you feel you can be.
Android is a shot adrenaline for companies that were on their death bed. They get a short boost of energy but they are still in the same poorly managed, myopic position they were before. We'll see in a couple years how many of these companies will be financially successful using Android. Personally, I think WP7 has a better chance at helping these companies recover longterm than Android.
So, sounds like Apple is overcharging, just a bit, doesn't it?
Such strange logic. According to you a company that is successful in a free market is overcharging. Your notion dictated that everyone else is undercharging so why aren't they charging more sice that is clearly how you think success with a product is had, not with consumer interest? If only they were smart enough to charge $1,000,000 per Android-based handset they would be killing Apple's bottom line¡ \
There is something called supply and demand. Apple's demand is huge, which is why they Lea in profit in the world's PMP, 'PC' and handset markets. It has nothing to fo with "overcharging".
Carniphage comment needs to be reitterated, "Markets set prices, not companies."
Apple right now is in the perfect place. The Driver's Seat in the Caravan of mobile phones.
Android seems to be getting all the attention, but of course they are racing of road. The manufacturers (Samsung, Motorola, etc.). Are getting some money.
Uncle Buck might be sticking a sticker on the hood of those cars (giving Google) a little bit of advertsing money. They are happy. Out in the woods they are more famous than Apple.
Nokia meanwhile is racing in the European circuit. They used to pay a lot of money to race there. They haven't noticed that the sponsors have bolted to greener pastures.
Palm, HP, Dell and the rest of the old folks are living in their past glory. They are convinced that things are gonna turn their way pretty soon. Its been a few years now. No one else is paying them any mind.
Rimm, was the old champion. But it is getting real hard for them to realize that the Car of Tommorrow started racing a few years back. Of course since they are not on the same classification as Apple, it is easy for them to say they are still on top.
Microsoft, meanwhile keeps waiting for the 'old' good old boys make their phones more aerodynamic. According to them, they have the engine ready to put in that car that will surely beat anything. Of course if it doesn't, it will be the fault of everyone else. (It really never is their fault.
Meanwhile, Apple has found the sweet spot. All the smart car people realize that they have done something a little unique here. Since they have the greatest driver, (Tom Cruise when he started driving). But he quickly learned to listen to the head Mechanic. They have made possible that the Car (I mean Phone) just keeps getting better and better.
Now, they have made it possible for more drivers to get behind the drivers seat. And what do you know. Its actually the car that is different. It is a better vehicle than all the rest. And it keeps getting better with alll the feedback that all the new drivers are giving. Sure Android gives others the same 'type' of ride. But it is just a little bit different, better.
As time goes on, more and more people will get their head out of the ground and try out this thing. It really only cost a little bit more to own and drive than those other things.
So, sounds like Apple is overcharging, just a bit, doesn't it?
$200 is more than reasonable for the iPhone, and is reasonable considering the prices being charged for comparable Android-based phones. It's the carriers that are getting ripped off.
$200 is more than reasonable for the iPhone, and is reasonable considering the prices being charged for comparable Android-based phones. It's the carriers that are getting ripped off.
Actually it's the carriers that rip you off, for two whole years (against one payment up front for the device, subsidized or not).
"Daring Glueball" said it very well: It doesn't matter that much if android phones are cheaper or BOGO as long as the carriers stay the same.
While you roll your eyes I am putting on my big boy undies so I can stand next to you. There! Now I am just like you.
Who's arguing? But with 50 billion in the bank and recognized as one of the most profitable HW companies they would hardly be 'immediately turning around and pouring all the profits back out the door in philanthropic ardor'
You clearly didn't read my post, but no, Apple doesn't NEED to do anything they don't want to do. I'd LIKE them to do something more public about these things, is what I am saying. When you are as big, as successful and as profitable as Apple it would be great to see them lead the way and be 'different' in this regard. I look for the cheapest deal like the next guy but it bothers me knowing that the only way I can get my cheap luxury goods some other guy can't adequately fend for his family. I have nothing against successful companies or people but I'd like to think the more successful you are the more ethical you feel you can be.
Well, yes, yes I did read your post. What I didn't read apparently was what you meant or intended to say, versus what you actually wrote! *grin*
The key issue for me is that you asked for more public disclosure of what they are doing philanthropically. Unlike you, and hence I suppose my sarcasm, I don't need to have Apple telling me all the nifty little things they are doing with their profits to help others. Most often in my experience among Fortune 500 companies, when they start talking about all the cool stuff they donate to or support, I start looking around for the news items that relate negatively to what they are doing. Because most often when a corporation starts talking about how diverse they are, or how much they support this or that non-profit it is a red herring to draw my attention away from some issue they want to go away.
Unfortunately, the companies that are building Apple (and everyone else's) devices are in fact creating a bit of a dichotomy for their countries - they are employing people in unprecedented numbers and raising the standard of living for tens of thousands. The backside to this is that while at first these newly employed workers have more money then they have ever had previously, the access to more money also raises the cost of living as they seek to obtain all the necessities and some of the luxuries they could not previously afford, creating higher demand and thus higher prices.
As far as any coverage about the working conditions are concerned in China and elsewhere - Apple is the only company using these manufactories that have actual standards for workers they require them to meet. This has been covered here in AI articles previously. No other company has been requiring these standards from their suppliers - and Apple has done this not just with the assembly lines but with the parts suppliers too. How much more proactive does Apple need to be to satisfy it's critics? Would the US allow such intrusion into manufacturing from companies outside the US?
I understand that there are AAPl investors on here ( as I am in a limited capacity), but it is also a site for fans. In that capacity the statement.
Apple is overcharging.
makes sense.
Although the Mac also makes money, and much of it over the $1000 mark, the fact remains that plenty of software is not available for it at 5% of the market place. In fact we are beholden to Apple and MS for a lot of stuff.
If these kind of figures continue - these relative market share declines or stagnations - then Apple will decline and the iOS platform will not be the app platform of first choice, or any choice, for developers.
Any students of Apple will know this. They really lost in the early 90's not the 80's. They survived the 80's because the race to the bottom took out the home computers, but in the early 90s they had a chance to become a large player - getting to 12% of the market in 1992 ( in effect taking over the vacuum left by the collapse by all other non-MS players).
Apple's reaction to this was to wallow in money. At 12% they may well have been the largest single computer manufacturer by unit ( or in the top 3) and certainly very high in revenue and profit. And then they lost to clones. Soon they were in the red. Soon they were < 3%.
Sure they start from a better place this time, but <10% is on the cards.
Apple can afford to sacrifice margin for volume - thats the story of growing to be one of the biggest electronic companies ever - and they have to. And they have to now. This year.
Nope. Control+Command+D tells me that "overcharging" means to charge someone "too much" for a product or service.
"Too much" would mean that no one can buy them. Seems that Apple sells more every quarter than the last. Guess that people don't think they're overcharging.
It is only a rip off if you do not see the value and never wanted to pay that much. Remember you have choice, buy cheep and keep buying cheap or you buy something with value and having it for a long time...
I put it another way, Apple product cost me far less than the alternatives and add in the my stock value I way ahead of the game.
That is a total bullshit statement. Apple doesn't use anything that is any higher quality them most other companies.
I have no issue if people want to say they spend extra for Apple products because they like the experience, ecosystem or that they simply think Apple products are cool.
Its total bullshit to say they last longer or are somehow higher quality. You can go down the list of OEM's that Apple uses and it isn't any different then anyone else.
I know many people with Acer laptops that are just as old as my MBP and working just fine.
Comments
So, sounds like Apple is overcharging, just a bit, doesn't it?
Hardly overcharging. Its called 'economies of scale'. The other 49% of profit is across hundreds of different models of phones from multiple companies, who had to develop, market and service all those different handsets. How many models does Apple sell? Can anyone keep track of how many Android phones were just announces last week? Thats why no Android can come close to build quality of iPhones....
51% of profit comes from 1 model (now with a second variant).
Just shows how much apple rip you off
Well, Microsoft just made LESS revenue and MORE profit than Apple. For a company whose main cash-cow products are essentially "duplicate at zero cost" bits...
... So enjoy your copy of Office.
Okay I'll take the bait...
It is only a rip off if you do not see the value and never wanted to pay that much.
To add to what you said, Value is a function of Cost/Price and Benefit. If Value is too low then the balance of Cost/Price and Benefit is wrong. Cost/Price is only too high if Benefit is too low, which would be reflected in low Value.
If Cost/Price is high, but benefit is also high then Value will be high and everything is okay.
WARNING! Potentially cautstic sarcasm! Wear your big-boy undies!!!
While you roll your eyes I am putting on my big boy undies so I can stand next to you. There! Now I am just like you.
Back on topic, the profits are what allow Apple to forward speculate for future devices and to leverage technologies which are now bleeding edge but could become mainstream. You do not drive as much innovation as Apple does by immediately turning around and pouring all the profits back out the door in philanthropic ardor!
Who's arguing? But with 50 billion in the bank and recognized as one of the most profitable HW companies they would hardly be 'immediately turning around and pouring all the profits back out the door in philanthropic ardor'
Do you know what aid Apple is providing to non-profit orgs, what money gets matched to employee contributions and what key needs orgs are actively supported? Does Apple NEED to tell you this because there is so much negative publicity to counter (which is usually when a corporate office releases those news items)? How about a break-down of the philanthropies supported by the BOD or the executive officers? Would that help? And did you miss all the articles in which the specifics about Apple's requirements for their suppliers were on record in support of their workers?
You clearly didn't read my post, but no, Apple doesn't NEED to do anything they don't want to do. I'd LIKE them to do something more public about these things, is what I am saying. When you are as big, as successful and as profitable as Apple it would be great to see them lead the way and be 'different' in this regard. I look for the cheapest deal like the next guy but it bothers me knowing that the only way I can get my cheap luxury goods some other guy can't adequately fend for his family. I have nothing against successful companies or people but I'd like to think the more successful you are the more ethical you feel you can be.
Just shows how much apple rip you off
Are the trolls even trying anymore?
So, sounds like Apple is overcharging, just a bit, doesn't it?
Who is the arbiter of what a fair price or fair profit margin is? You?
So, sounds like Apple is overcharging, just a bit, doesn't it?
Markets set prices, not companies.
C.
Just shows how much apple rip you off
Is it a rip-off if you buy something and are happy with it? I think not!
Just shows how much apple rip you off
Just shows how discriminating people will pay a fair price for quality.
Android is a shot adrenaline for companies that were on their death bed. They get a short boost of energy but they are still in the same poorly managed, myopic position they were before. We'll see in a couple years how many of these companies will be financially successful using Android. Personally, I think WP7 has a better chance at helping these companies recover longterm than Android.
Your sig???
So, sounds like Apple is overcharging, just a bit, doesn't it?
Such strange logic. According to you a company that is successful in a free market is overcharging. Your notion dictated that everyone else is undercharging so why aren't they charging more sice that is clearly how you think success with a product is had, not with consumer interest? If only they were smart enough to charge $1,000,000 per Android-based handset they would be killing Apple's bottom line¡
There is something called supply and demand. Apple's demand is huge, which is why they Lea in profit in the world's PMP, 'PC' and handset markets. It has nothing to fo with "overcharging".
Carniphage comment needs to be reitterated, "Markets set prices, not companies."
Android seems to be getting all the attention, but of course they are racing of road. The manufacturers (Samsung, Motorola, etc.). Are getting some money.
Uncle Buck might be sticking a sticker on the hood of those cars (giving Google) a little bit of advertsing money. They are happy. Out in the woods they are more famous than Apple.
Nokia meanwhile is racing in the European circuit. They used to pay a lot of money to race there. They haven't noticed that the sponsors have bolted to greener pastures.
Palm, HP, Dell and the rest of the old folks are living in their past glory. They are convinced that things are gonna turn their way pretty soon. Its been a few years now. No one else is paying them any mind.
Rimm, was the old champion. But it is getting real hard for them to realize that the Car of Tommorrow started racing a few years back. Of course since they are not on the same classification as Apple, it is easy for them to say they are still on top.
Microsoft, meanwhile keeps waiting for the 'old' good old boys make their phones more aerodynamic. According to them, they have the engine ready to put in that car that will surely beat anything. Of course if it doesn't, it will be the fault of everyone else. (It really never is their fault.
Meanwhile, Apple has found the sweet spot. All the smart car people realize that they have done something a little unique here. Since they have the greatest driver, (Tom Cruise when he started driving). But he quickly learned to listen to the head Mechanic. They have made possible that the Car (I mean Phone) just keeps getting better and better.
Now, they have made it possible for more drivers to get behind the drivers seat. And what do you know. Its actually the car that is different. It is a better vehicle than all the rest. And it keeps getting better with alll the feedback that all the new drivers are giving. Sure Android gives others the same 'type' of ride. But it is just a little bit different, better.
As time goes on, more and more people will get their head out of the ground and try out this thing. It really only cost a little bit more to own and drive than those other things.
So, sounds like Apple is overcharging, just a bit, doesn't it?
$200 is more than reasonable for the iPhone, and is reasonable considering the prices being charged for comparable Android-based phones. It's the carriers that are getting ripped off.
$200 is more than reasonable for the iPhone, and is reasonable considering the prices being charged for comparable Android-based phones. It's the carriers that are getting ripped off.
Actually it's the carriers that rip you off, for two whole years (against one payment up front for the device, subsidized or not).
"Daring Glueball" said it very well: It doesn't matter that much if android phones are cheaper or BOGO as long as the carriers stay the same.
While you roll your eyes I am putting on my big boy undies so I can stand next to you. There! Now I am just like you.
Who's arguing? But with 50 billion in the bank and recognized as one of the most profitable HW companies they would hardly be 'immediately turning around and pouring all the profits back out the door in philanthropic ardor'
You clearly didn't read my post, but no, Apple doesn't NEED to do anything they don't want to do. I'd LIKE them to do something more public about these things, is what I am saying. When you are as big, as successful and as profitable as Apple it would be great to see them lead the way and be 'different' in this regard. I look for the cheapest deal like the next guy but it bothers me knowing that the only way I can get my cheap luxury goods some other guy can't adequately fend for his family. I have nothing against successful companies or people but I'd like to think the more successful you are the more ethical you feel you can be.
Well, yes, yes I did read your post. What I didn't read apparently was what you meant or intended to say, versus what you actually wrote! *grin*
The key issue for me is that you asked for more public disclosure of what they are doing philanthropically. Unlike you, and hence I suppose my sarcasm, I don't need to have Apple telling me all the nifty little things they are doing with their profits to help others. Most often in my experience among Fortune 500 companies, when they start talking about all the cool stuff they donate to or support, I start looking around for the news items that relate negatively to what they are doing. Because most often when a corporation starts talking about how diverse they are, or how much they support this or that non-profit it is a red herring to draw my attention away from some issue they want to go away.
Unfortunately, the companies that are building Apple (and everyone else's) devices are in fact creating a bit of a dichotomy for their countries - they are employing people in unprecedented numbers and raising the standard of living for tens of thousands. The backside to this is that while at first these newly employed workers have more money then they have ever had previously, the access to more money also raises the cost of living as they seek to obtain all the necessities and some of the luxuries they could not previously afford, creating higher demand and thus higher prices.
As far as any coverage about the working conditions are concerned in China and elsewhere - Apple is the only company using these manufactories that have actual standards for workers they require them to meet. This has been covered here in AI articles previously. No other company has been requiring these standards from their suppliers - and Apple has done this not just with the assembly lines but with the parts suppliers too. How much more proactive does Apple need to be to satisfy it's critics? Would the US allow such intrusion into manufacturing from companies outside the US?
Just shows how much apple rip you off
Precisely.
Apple is overcharging.
makes sense.
Although the Mac also makes money, and much of it over the $1000 mark, the fact remains that plenty of software is not available for it at 5% of the market place. In fact we are beholden to Apple and MS for a lot of stuff.
If these kind of figures continue - these relative market share declines or stagnations - then Apple will decline and the iOS platform will not be the app platform of first choice, or any choice, for developers.
Any students of Apple will know this. They really lost in the early 90's not the 80's. They survived the 80's because the race to the bottom took out the home computers, but in the early 90s they had a chance to become a large player - getting to 12% of the market in 1992 ( in effect taking over the vacuum left by the collapse by all other non-MS players).
Apple's reaction to this was to wallow in money. At 12% they may well have been the largest single computer manufacturer by unit ( or in the top 3) and certainly very high in revenue and profit. And then they lost to clones. Soon they were in the red. Soon they were < 3%.
Sure they start from a better place this time, but <10% is on the cards.
Apple can afford to sacrifice margin for volume - thats the story of growing to be one of the biggest electronic companies ever - and they have to. And they have to now. This year.
Apple is overcharging.
Nope. Control+Command+D tells me that "overcharging" means to charge someone "too much" for a product or service.
"Too much" would mean that no one can buy them. Seems that Apple sells more every quarter than the last. Guess that people don't think they're overcharging.
...And they have to now. This year.
Not going to happen. Doesn't need to happen.
Okay I'll take the bait...
It is only a rip off if you do not see the value and never wanted to pay that much. Remember you have choice, buy cheep and keep buying cheap or you buy something with value and having it for a long time...
I put it another way, Apple product cost me far less than the alternatives and add in the my stock value I way ahead of the game.
That is a total bullshit statement. Apple doesn't use anything that is any higher quality them most other companies.
I have no issue if people want to say they spend extra for Apple products because they like the experience, ecosystem or that they simply think Apple products are cool.
Its total bullshit to say they last longer or are somehow higher quality. You can go down the list of OEM's that Apple uses and it isn't any different then anyone else.
I know many people with Acer laptops that are just as old as my MBP and working just fine.