That is a total bullshit statement. Apple doesn't use anything that is any higher quality them most other companies.
I have no issue if people want to say they spend extra for Apple products because they like the experience, ecosystem or that they simply think Apple products are cool.
Its total bullshit to say they last longer or are somehow higher quality. You can go down the list of OEM's that Apple uses and it isn't any different then anyone else.
I know many people with Acer laptops that are just as old as my MBP and working just fine.
...And every product made with steel contains iron ore off the same planet. Surely there is no way steel from company "A" could ever be better than steel from company "B", because the iron ore comes from the same mine.
Apple does mostly use the same suppliers and assemblers, but in case you were unaware, there are varying quality differences that come from the same factories and assembly lines. Apple pays more to make sure the parts they get are at the higher end of that quality spectrum.
Apple also puts a lot of money into working with companies to design and produce different manufacturing techniques, using different materials, etc. Apple works with these companies to guarantee the part being manufactured is up to Apple's specs and needs.
They do not buy predesigned, pre-engineered components and assemble them in a box to make a product as you seem to suggest.
That is a total bullshit statement. Apple doesn't use anything that is any higher quality them most other companies.
I have no issue if people want to say they spend extra for Apple products because they like the experience, ecosystem or that they simply think Apple products are cool.
Its total bullshit to say they last longer or are somehow higher quality. You can go down the list of OEM's that Apple uses and it isn't any different then anyone else.
I know many people with Acer laptops that are just as old as my MBP and working just fine.
It?s not bullshit. Apple isn?t even the best way example of looking at ?quality? It?s easier to look at Dell or HP to see how ?quality? can affect the price. You can find machines with basically the same performance that have wildly different costs due to construction, drivers and the ?quality? of the components, even though they seem identical to other components when looking at a simple spec list.
Since Apple was brought up I?ll use them since I don?t have the time or interest in doing an extensive cross-compartive of Dell or HP products.
Displays
Apple doesn?t use the highest PPI that can be found on the market today, but when they do offer are brighter backlights and higher quality TN TFT panels compared to their competition.
Most notebooks use a trackpad, but that doesn?t make them equal. Apple?s trackpad is more sensitive and more accurate than any I?ve seen on notebooks. Simply having that word on a checklist doesn?t make them equal. Apple use of glass over the trackpad keeps it feeling and looking good after excessive use.
On top of that, they have drivers that work. This is an area where many vendors (and users) completely ignore the concept of quality. Take the HP Envys. They employed the huge, multi-touch trackpad but it was repeatedly reviewed as unusable, that you?d have to use an external mouse to feasibly use the machine. That?s crazy, that?s not quality! I assume they made this somewhat better in future updates, but this was a shipping model with a complete lack of quality in the trackpad drivers. I don?t recall Apple having that issue with their first multi-touch trackpads.
OS
AnandTech has also repeatedly tested machines for their usage on a single charge. Apple?s products win. Even on the Macs with Bootcamp running Mac OS X bests Windows. How is this not a sign of quality?
Customer Service
I never feel like I?m taking a risk when buying an Apple product. I?ll even spend a little extra in their stores for 3rd-party products because I know if there is an issue ? all CE will be fualty for someone, somewhere ? they will deal with it in a way I appreciate. They don?t even care if you bought it online or at a different B&M store, which is something I?ve had issue with in the past with other large retail chains. I think that is important a sign of quality.
Processors
This one isn?t verifiable (and I?m only throwing it in there because I think it?s interesting): there are many deep into the tech world that have suspected that Apple gets premium components within batches. Even items that are made on an assembly line and of the same model number are not the same. With something as complex as microprocessors it?s possible that power consumption, while still within spec, could be at the high-end. It?s suspected that Apple is buying the product that is consuming less power. Again, this can?t be verified, it?s only been speculated, but if true it?s another aspect of quality that won?t be noticed when looking at a model number.
Conclusion
How is this possible if Apple isn?t focusing on the quality of their products?
It's funny that regardless of what metric Apple is measured by, they are always doomed to fail if they don't change.
As people have stated, if Apple's wares are too expensive, then the consumers would stop buying them. That's not happening, the opposite is happening. Apple is selling more and more products every quarter. The only one that is declining is the iPod, but that's on the low end as half of all iPods sold are iPod Touches.
Cheaper will AWLAYS win out to those who don't place any real value in the product they are buying. This is true in any industry. A few that come to mind, sporting equipment, cookware, clothing, jewelry, electronics, musical instruments, etc.
It's very presumptuous for someone to think I'm not getting my money's worth on a purchase I made. I really think that is for me to decide, not you.
I got my iPhone 4 for free on a $A59 plan which works out at $1416 over two years, of course you are basing your assumption on the rather strange notion that one would purchase a smartphone without actually using it i.e. paying for calls and data.
Of course he is. He's obliged to maximise overall profits. Which requires picking the precise price that maximises that. The price set by the market.
Anything else would be a criminal abandonment of what shareholders demand.
I am always amazed that some here seem to think that NO ONE at Apple has ever heard of "price elasticity of demand". As you say, Apple is obliged to maximize overall profits and I'm pretty sure they model this stuff carefully before attaching a price to a product.
But, you might as well give up because some will always believe that the best answer is for Apple to lower its prices.
These discussions always remind me of the "I Love Lucy" episode The Million-dollar Idea:
sigh. Higher prices reduce demand. Lower prices stimulate demand. At any price point demand can equal supply. If they had originally priced the iPhone at $2000 ( sticker) they would have some demand, and would have matched supply by producing less. Or ( since they started at zero) not ramping up production to the levels they now have ramped up to.
a company may want to keep margins high and ( thus) market share low to protect it's brand, or make higher profits from lower sales. Thats fine and indeed successful for cars. And other devices.
For a company which is competing not just as a device maker but an OS platform it isn't good enough.
Apple is a very successful mobile phone manufacturer, the platform is beginning to stagnate.
You seem to think you are one of the few on here who understands this; you are not.
Apple can and will address any perceived market stagnation. They might lower prices or they might add significant new features to maintain price.
Apple has chosen a model based on maximizing their profits. Many things beyond the cost of the phone are included in determining price (e.g., component supply and pricing, advertising, support costs). You seem to think your way would work better even though you are not privy to much (if any) of the information Apple has to help determine a pricing strategy. You need to stop pretending that you have anywhere near the necessary information to determine what makes the most sense for Apple.
For now, you sound like someone whose only solution to marketshare growth stagnation is to drop the price instead of considering other alternatives.
I am always amazed that some here seem to think that NO ONE at Apple has ever heard of "price elasticity of demand". As you say, Apple is obliged to maximize overall profits and I'm pretty sure they model this stuff carefully before attaching a price to a product.
But, you might as well give up because some will always believe that the best answer is for Apple to lower its prices.
These discussions always remind me of the "I Love Lucy" episode The Million-dollar Idea:
I doubt it. There are, after all, plenty of still "developing nations". I guess that ZTE can snatch them up and no one there would ever aspire to owning something better.
Quote:
Yeah? The revenues would clearly have to be 4 times larger on the iPhone to justify the investment.
Apps are moving out of the bedroom. The decision will not be made by "developers" but by the people who hire developers. If they see 80%, they will spend money on designers and developers for that 80%.
In any case I see we have accepted 80% market share for the competition. Back to our happy clappy niche. Feeling special at the 20% level or less. Just bog all software.
I am not consigning Apple to 20% share simply noting that the developers will go where the money is. If the average large developer is making $100k in the App Store but only $50k in the Android Marketplace, where would he put his first effort? If it were me, I'd go yo where the money is irrespective of the marketshare.
..... my power supply had to be replaced in the third year. Like many who bought the AV17 monitor, mine had to be replaced twice. Like many who bought the Wallstreet, my hinge became loose in the second year (thankfully I know enough to buy AppleCare). Like many who bought the '07 MBP 17", the Radion chip required the motherboard to be replaced, and that model also had noticeable screen discoloration and severe dead pixels. Those who bought the MBP generation after I did had the NVideo recall.
Don't get me wrong - I do enjoy my Macs. .....
You are either a sadist or a bullshitter to have so much stated trouble ..... but continue to buy from same company .... my money is on bullshitter.
It?s not bullshit. Apple isn?t even the best way example of looking at ?quality? It?s easier to look at Dell or HP to see how ?quality? can affect the price. You can find machines with basically the same performance that have wildly different costs due to construction, drivers and the ?quality? of the components, even though they seem identical to other components when looking at a simple spec list.
Since Apple was brought up I?ll use them since I don?t have the time or interest in doing an extensive cross-compartive of Dell or HP products.
Displays
Apple doesn?t use the highest PPI that can be found on the market today, but when they do offer are brighter backlights and higher quality TN TFT panels compared to their competition.
Most notebooks use a trackpad, but that doesn?t make them equal. Apple?s trackpad is more sensitive and more accurate than any I?ve seen on notebooks. Simply having that word on a checklist doesn?t make them equal. Apple use of glass over the trackpad keeps it feeling and looking good after excessive use.
On top of that, they have drivers that work. This is an area where many vendors (and users) completely ignore the concept of quality. Take the HP Envys. They employed the huge, multi-touch trackpad but it was repeatedly reviewed as unusable, that you?d have to use an external mouse to feasibly use the machine. That?s crazy, that?s not quality! I assume they made this somewhat better in future updates, but this was a shipping model with a complete lack of quality in the trackpad drivers. I don?t recall Apple having that issue with their first multi-touch trackpads.
OS
AnandTech has also repeatedly tested machines for their usage on a single charge. Apple?s products win. Even on the Macs with Bootcamp running Mac OS X bests Windows. How is this not a sign of quality?
Customer Service
I never feel like I?m taking a risk when buying an Apple product. I?ll even spend a little extra in their stores for 3rd-party products because I know if there is an issue ? all CE will be fualty for someone, somewhere ? they will deal with it in a way I appreciate. They don?t even care if you bought it online or at a different B&M store, which is something I?ve had issue with in the past with other large retail chains. I think that is important a sign of quality.
Processors
This one isn?t verifiable (and I?m only throwing it in there because I think it?s interesting): there are many deep into the tech world that have suspected that Apple gets premium components within batches. Even items that are made on an assembly line and of the same model number are not the same. With something as complex as microprocessors it?s possible that power consumption, while still within spec, could be at the high-end. It?s suspected that Apple is buying the product that is consuming less power. Again, this can?t be verified, it?s only been speculated, but if true it?s another aspect of quality that won?t be noticed when looking at a model number.
Conclusion
How is this possible if Apple isn?t focusing on the quality of their products?
Good post, well thought out and researched. ... extremeskater post? ... not so much.
I am always amazed that some here seem to think that NO ONE at Apple has ever heard of "price elasticity of demand". As you say, Apple is obliged to maximize overall profits and I'm pretty sure they model this stuff carefully before attaching a price to a product.
So true. In fact, the rules would suggest that Apple is undercharging for iPhone because supply remains constrained. There is a supply shortfall which economics says Apple should eliminate by raising prices since increasing supply is not an instantaneous possibility.
Yeah? The revenues would clearly have to be 4 times larger on the iPhone to justify the investment.
Apps are moving out of the bedroom. The decision will not be made by "developers" but by the people who hire developers. If they see 80%, they will spend money on designers and developers for that 80%.
In any case I see we have accepted 80% market share for the competition. Back to our happy clappy niche. Feeling special at the 20% level or less. Just bog all software.
Apart from the often overlooked iOS the platform that developers can target is NOT confined to the iPhone.
The smartphone market is not the only opportunity for iOS developers, it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
It?s not bullshit. Apple isn?t even the best way example of looking at ?quality? It?s easier to look at Dell or HP to see how ?quality? can affect the price. You can find machines with basically the same performance that have wildly different costs due to construction, drivers and the ?quality? of the components, even though they seem identical to other components when looking at a simple spec list.
Since Apple was brought up I?ll use them since I don?t have the time or interest in doing an extensive cross-compartive of Dell or HP products.
Displays
Apple doesn?t use the highest PPI that can be found on the market today, but when they do offer are brighter backlights and higher quality TN TFT panels compared to their competition.
Most notebooks use a trackpad, but that doesn?t make them equal. Apple?s trackpad is more sensitive and more accurate than any I?ve seen on notebooks. Simply having that word on a checklist doesn?t make them equal. Apple use of glass over the trackpad keeps it feeling and looking good after excessive use.
On top of that, they have drivers that work. This is an area where many vendors (and users) completely ignore the concept of quality. Take the HP Envys. They employed the huge, multi-touch trackpad but it was repeatedly reviewed as unusable, that you?d have to use an external mouse to feasibly use the machine. That?s crazy, that?s not quality! I assume they made this somewhat better in future updates, but this was a shipping model with a complete lack of quality in the trackpad drivers. I don?t recall Apple having that issue with their first multi-touch trackpads.
OS
AnandTech has also repeatedly tested machines for their usage on a single charge. Apple?s products win. Even on the Macs with Bootcamp running Mac OS X bests Windows. How is this not a sign of quality?
Customer Service
I never feel like I?m taking a risk when buying an Apple product. I?ll even spend a little extra in their stores for 3rd-party products because I know if there is an issue ? all CE will be fualty for someone, somewhere ? they will deal with it in a way I appreciate. They don?t even care if you bought it online or at a different B&M store, which is something I?ve had issue with in the past with other large retail chains. I think that is important a sign of quality.
Processors
This one isn?t verifiable (and I?m only throwing it in there because I think it?s interesting): there are many deep into the tech world that have suspected that Apple gets premium components within batches. Even items that are made on an assembly line and of the same model number are not the same. With something as complex as microprocessors it?s possible that power consumption, while still within spec, could be at the high-end. It?s suspected that Apple is buying the product that is consuming less power. Again, this can?t be verified, it?s only been speculated, but if true it?s another aspect of quality that won?t be noticed when looking at a model number.
Conclusion
How is this possible if Apple isn?t focusing on the quality of their products?
Okay this wasn't what I was saying. People are using the BMW to Ford nonsense again without actually coming out and saying it.
Quality as far as fit and finish compared to a Tier 1 vendor that is fine but I find it interesting that many Apple users tend to bring up only Dell and HP.
I disagree 110% when it comes to Apple and drivers. I think Apple drives suck and what I hate the most is when Apple screws up their drivers you and I have to wait for Apple to fix them. Firmware is another good example. Apple has had more then one issue with iMac Gpu firmware that people have to wait months for Apple to fix.
In Windows if you have a driver problem you can simple go to the Nvidia or ATI site and download another driver. I have rarely if ever had driver issues in Windows and have never had the heat problems using a Windows system when Apple is known for heat issues.
Apple over they year has had more then its fair share of heat issues due to bad design and putting looks before function. To deny that is a joke.
Seeing we can't pull any real data on things like Trackpads and I think Asus makes pretty good ones lets talk about CPU's because I assume you are talking about CPU Stepping.
When you pay a reasonable price and use a good company when ordering a system you can make sure you get the Cpu Stepping you want you don't have to guess if Apple is getting some mystery advantage.
I'm actually getting into points that are boring to me to even debate.
The point I was trying to make was people make it sound as if Apple is using some special hardware that makes their products last longer. That is untrue. A product of equal cost will last as long as an Apple system if not longer.
I have Velocity Micro systems that I had built to order that are five years old and run as well as the day I got them. People on these forums want to compare a 2800.00 MBP to a 800.00 HP.
My points were about hardware not overall user experience and custormer support. I am fairly sure I made that clear in one of my other posts.
I buy and Apple computer because of the overall product not because I think the harddrive or ram is going to last much longer.
Dude, I read the support forums .... as well as the customer satisfaction reports from independent research companies. Really. ..... and guess what ... the overwhelming majority opinion is that Apple leads the way in design, quality and profits of most other computer manufacturers.
Customers also "vote with their wallet" and I'm sure your aware of the fact that, in an era where overall computer sales are, shall we say, "disappointing" ... Apple continues to have yoy increases ... quarter after quarter. Lastly, even as biased as you are, you just have to look at ebay and see the "used Apple product" that constantly holds it's value more than any of it's competitors ... something that people like you always seem to "forget to mention". Do yourself a favor and drop the argument about Apple hardware quality because you're just making yourself look more foolish each time out.
Comments
That is a total bullshit statement. Apple doesn't use anything that is any higher quality them most other companies.
I have no issue if people want to say they spend extra for Apple products because they like the experience, ecosystem or that they simply think Apple products are cool.
Its total bullshit to say they last longer or are somehow higher quality. You can go down the list of OEM's that Apple uses and it isn't any different then anyone else.
I know many people with Acer laptops that are just as old as my MBP and working just fine.
...And every product made with steel contains iron ore off the same planet. Surely there is no way steel from company "A" could ever be better than steel from company "B", because the iron ore comes from the same mine.
Apple does mostly use the same suppliers and assemblers, but in case you were unaware, there are varying quality differences that come from the same factories and assembly lines. Apple pays more to make sure the parts they get are at the higher end of that quality spectrum.
Apple also puts a lot of money into working with companies to design and produce different manufacturing techniques, using different materials, etc. Apple works with these companies to guarantee the part being manufactured is up to Apple's specs and needs.
They do not buy predesigned, pre-engineered components and assemble them in a box to make a product as you seem to suggest.
That is a total bullshit statement. Apple doesn't use anything that is any higher quality them most other companies.
I have no issue if people want to say they spend extra for Apple products because they like the experience, ecosystem or that they simply think Apple products are cool.
Its total bullshit to say they last longer or are somehow higher quality. You can go down the list of OEM's that Apple uses and it isn't any different then anyone else.
I know many people with Acer laptops that are just as old as my MBP and working just fine.
It?s not bullshit. Apple isn?t even the best way example of looking at ?quality? It?s easier to look at Dell or HP to see how ?quality? can affect the price. You can find machines with basically the same performance that have wildly different costs due to construction, drivers and the ?quality? of the components, even though they seem identical to other components when looking at a simple spec list.
Since Apple was brought up I?ll use them since I don?t have the time or interest in doing an extensive cross-compartive of Dell or HP products.
Displays
Apple doesn?t use the highest PPI that can be found on the market today, but when they do offer are brighter backlights and higher quality TN TFT panels compared to their competition.Trackpad
Most notebooks use a trackpad, but that doesn?t make them equal. Apple?s trackpad is more sensitive and more accurate than any I?ve seen on notebooks. Simply having that word on a checklist doesn?t make them equal. Apple use of glass over the trackpad keeps it feeling and looking good after excessive use.
On top of that, they have drivers that work. This is an area where many vendors (and users) completely ignore the concept of quality. Take the HP Envys. They employed the huge, multi-touch trackpad but it was repeatedly reviewed as unusable, that you?d have to use an external mouse to feasibly use the machine. That?s crazy, that?s not quality! I assume they made this somewhat better in future updates, but this was a shipping model with a complete lack of quality in the trackpad drivers. I don?t recall Apple having that issue with their first multi-touch trackpads.
OS
AnandTech has also repeatedly tested machines for their usage on a single charge. Apple?s products win. Even on the Macs with Bootcamp running Mac OS X bests Windows. How is this not a sign of quality?
Customer Service
I never feel like I?m taking a risk when buying an Apple product. I?ll even spend a little extra in their stores for 3rd-party products because I know if there is an issue ? all CE will be fualty for someone, somewhere ? they will deal with it in a way I appreciate. They don?t even care if you bought it online or at a different B&M store, which is something I?ve had issue with in the past with other large retail chains. I think that is important a sign of quality.
Processors
This one isn?t verifiable (and I?m only throwing it in there because I think it?s interesting): there are many deep into the tech world that have suspected that Apple gets premium components within batches. Even items that are made on an assembly line and of the same model number are not the same. With something as complex as microprocessors it?s possible that power consumption, while still within spec, could be at the high-end. It?s suspected that Apple is buying the product that is consuming less power. Again, this can?t be verified, it?s only been speculated, but if true it?s another aspect of quality that won?t be noticed when looking at a model number.
Conclusion
How is this possible if Apple isn?t focusing on the quality of their products?
As people have stated, if Apple's wares are too expensive, then the consumers would stop buying them. That's not happening, the opposite is happening. Apple is selling more and more products every quarter. The only one that is declining is the iPod, but that's on the low end as half of all iPods sold are iPod Touches.
Cheaper will AWLAYS win out to those who don't place any real value in the product they are buying. This is true in any industry. A few that come to mind, sporting equipment, cookware, clothing, jewelry, electronics, musical instruments, etc.
It's very presumptuous for someone to think I'm not getting my money's worth on a purchase I made. I really think that is for me to decide, not you.
I got my iPhone 4 for free on a $A59 plan which works out at $1416 over two years, of course you are basing your assumption on the rather strange notion that one would purchase a smartphone without actually using it i.e. paying for calls and data.
Thank you for reinforcing my point.
Of course he is. He's obliged to maximise overall profits. Which requires picking the precise price that maximises that. The price set by the market.
Anything else would be a criminal abandonment of what shareholders demand.
I am always amazed that some here seem to think that NO ONE at Apple has ever heard of "price elasticity of demand". As you say, Apple is obliged to maximize overall profits and I'm pretty sure they model this stuff carefully before attaching a price to a product.
But, you might as well give up because some will always believe that the best answer is for Apple to lower its prices.
These discussions always remind me of the "I Love Lucy" episode The Million-dollar Idea:
http://www.clown-ministry.com/index_...a_i_love_lucy/
And, the attempt to fix the problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu_2Hadt-s8
Maybe Apple should lower prices and then try to unsell some product.
Carniphage comment needs to be reitterated, "Markets set prices, not companies."
Apple sets the prices.
The mobile companies run hand over fist to subsidise them which allows apple to control a larger share of the profit than most other phone companies
market pays the same price as any other phone.
The added value is in your head. You just repeat it like a mantra. Its an excuse for justifying lower market share and higher prices.
Then why do you buy their products?
sigh. Higher prices reduce demand. Lower prices stimulate demand. At any price point demand can equal supply. If they had originally priced the iPhone at $2000 ( sticker) they would have some demand, and would have matched supply by producing less. Or ( since they started at zero) not ramping up production to the levels they now have ramped up to.
a company may want to keep margins high and ( thus) market share low to protect it's brand, or make higher profits from lower sales. Thats fine and indeed successful for cars. And other devices.
For a company which is competing not just as a device maker but an OS platform it isn't good enough.
Apple is a very successful mobile phone manufacturer, the platform is beginning to stagnate.
You seem to think you are one of the few on here who understands this; you are not.
Apple can and will address any perceived market stagnation. They might lower prices or they might add significant new features to maintain price.
Apple has chosen a model based on maximizing their profits. Many things beyond the cost of the phone are included in determining price (e.g., component supply and pricing, advertising, support costs). You seem to think your way would work better even though you are not privy to much (if any) of the information Apple has to help determine a pricing strategy. You need to stop pretending that you have anywhere near the necessary information to determine what makes the most sense for Apple.
For now, you sound like someone whose only solution to marketshare growth stagnation is to drop the price instead of considering other alternatives.
I am always amazed that some here seem to think that NO ONE at Apple has ever heard of "price elasticity of demand". As you say, Apple is obliged to maximize overall profits and I'm pretty sure they model this stuff carefully before attaching a price to a product.
But, you might as well give up because some will always believe that the best answer is for Apple to lower its prices.
These discussions always remind me of the "I Love Lucy" episode The Million-dollar Idea:
http://www.clown-ministry.com/index_...a_i_love_lucy/
And, the attempt to fix the problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu_2Hadt-s8
Maybe Apple should lower prices and then try to unsell some product.
I found the entire episode on YouTube…edit:
I just realized this some similarities with The Producers, but predates the film by 15 years.
Far too late.
I doubt it. There are, after all, plenty of still "developing nations". I guess that ZTE can snatch them up and no one there would ever aspire to owning something better.
Yeah? The revenues would clearly have to be 4 times larger on the iPhone to justify the investment.
Apps are moving out of the bedroom. The decision will not be made by "developers" but by the people who hire developers. If they see 80%, they will spend money on designers and developers for that 80%.
In any case I see we have accepted 80% market share for the competition. Back to our happy clappy niche. Feeling special at the 20% level or less. Just bog all software.
I am not consigning Apple to 20% share simply noting that the developers will go where the money is. If the average large developer is making $100k in the App Store but only $50k in the Android Marketplace, where would he put his first effort? If it were me, I'd go yo where the money is irrespective of the marketshare.
..... my power supply had to be replaced in the third year. Like many who bought the AV17 monitor, mine had to be replaced twice. Like many who bought the Wallstreet, my hinge became loose in the second year (thankfully I know enough to buy AppleCare). Like many who bought the '07 MBP 17", the Radion chip required the motherboard to be replaced, and that model also had noticeable screen discoloration and severe dead pixels. Those who bought the MBP generation after I did had the NVideo recall.
Don't get me wrong - I do enjoy my Macs. .....
You are either a sadist or a bullshitter to have so much stated trouble ..... but continue to buy from same company .... my money is on bullshitter.
It's very presumptuous for someone to think I'm not getting my money's worth on a purchase I made. I really think that is for me to decide, not you.
Truer words were never spoken .... unfortunately, presumptuous people seem to be in excessive supply around here ..... and low demand ....
It?s not bullshit. Apple isn?t even the best way example of looking at ?quality? It?s easier to look at Dell or HP to see how ?quality? can affect the price. You can find machines with basically the same performance that have wildly different costs due to construction, drivers and the ?quality? of the components, even though they seem identical to other components when looking at a simple spec list.
Since Apple was brought up I?ll use them since I don?t have the time or interest in doing an extensive cross-compartive of Dell or HP products.
Displays
Apple doesn?t use the highest PPI that can be found on the market today, but when they do offer are brighter backlights and higher quality TN TFT panels compared to their competition.Trackpad
Most notebooks use a trackpad, but that doesn?t make them equal. Apple?s trackpad is more sensitive and more accurate than any I?ve seen on notebooks. Simply having that word on a checklist doesn?t make them equal. Apple use of glass over the trackpad keeps it feeling and looking good after excessive use.
On top of that, they have drivers that work. This is an area where many vendors (and users) completely ignore the concept of quality. Take the HP Envys. They employed the huge, multi-touch trackpad but it was repeatedly reviewed as unusable, that you?d have to use an external mouse to feasibly use the machine. That?s crazy, that?s not quality! I assume they made this somewhat better in future updates, but this was a shipping model with a complete lack of quality in the trackpad drivers. I don?t recall Apple having that issue with their first multi-touch trackpads.
OS
AnandTech has also repeatedly tested machines for their usage on a single charge. Apple?s products win. Even on the Macs with Bootcamp running Mac OS X bests Windows. How is this not a sign of quality?
Customer Service
I never feel like I?m taking a risk when buying an Apple product. I?ll even spend a little extra in their stores for 3rd-party products because I know if there is an issue ? all CE will be fualty for someone, somewhere ? they will deal with it in a way I appreciate. They don?t even care if you bought it online or at a different B&M store, which is something I?ve had issue with in the past with other large retail chains. I think that is important a sign of quality.
Processors
This one isn?t verifiable (and I?m only throwing it in there because I think it?s interesting): there are many deep into the tech world that have suspected that Apple gets premium components within batches. Even items that are made on an assembly line and of the same model number are not the same. With something as complex as microprocessors it?s possible that power consumption, while still within spec, could be at the high-end. It?s suspected that Apple is buying the product that is consuming less power. Again, this can?t be verified, it?s only been speculated, but if true it?s another aspect of quality that won?t be noticed when looking at a model number.
Conclusion
How is this possible if Apple isn?t focusing on the quality of their products?
Good post, well thought out and researched. ... extremeskater post? ... not so much.
I am always amazed that some here seem to think that NO ONE at Apple has ever heard of "price elasticity of demand". As you say, Apple is obliged to maximize overall profits and I'm pretty sure they model this stuff carefully before attaching a price to a product.
So true. In fact, the rules would suggest that Apple is undercharging for iPhone because supply remains constrained. There is a supply shortfall which economics says Apple should eliminate by raising prices since increasing supply is not an instantaneous possibility.
Far too late.
Yeah? The revenues would clearly have to be 4 times larger on the iPhone to justify the investment.
Apps are moving out of the bedroom. The decision will not be made by "developers" but by the people who hire developers. If they see 80%, they will spend money on designers and developers for that 80%.
In any case I see we have accepted 80% market share for the competition. Back to our happy clappy niche. Feeling special at the 20% level or less. Just bog all software.
Apart from the often overlooked iOS the platform that developers can target is NOT confined to the iPhone.
The smartphone market is not the only opportunity for iOS developers, it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
It?s not bullshit. Apple isn?t even the best way example of looking at ?quality? It?s easier to look at Dell or HP to see how ?quality? can affect the price. You can find machines with basically the same performance that have wildly different costs due to construction, drivers and the ?quality? of the components, even though they seem identical to other components when looking at a simple spec list.
Since Apple was brought up I?ll use them since I don?t have the time or interest in doing an extensive cross-compartive of Dell or HP products.
Displays
Apple doesn?t use the highest PPI that can be found on the market today, but when they do offer are brighter backlights and higher quality TN TFT panels compared to their competition.Trackpad
Most notebooks use a trackpad, but that doesn?t make them equal. Apple?s trackpad is more sensitive and more accurate than any I?ve seen on notebooks. Simply having that word on a checklist doesn?t make them equal. Apple use of glass over the trackpad keeps it feeling and looking good after excessive use.
On top of that, they have drivers that work. This is an area where many vendors (and users) completely ignore the concept of quality. Take the HP Envys. They employed the huge, multi-touch trackpad but it was repeatedly reviewed as unusable, that you?d have to use an external mouse to feasibly use the machine. That?s crazy, that?s not quality! I assume they made this somewhat better in future updates, but this was a shipping model with a complete lack of quality in the trackpad drivers. I don?t recall Apple having that issue with their first multi-touch trackpads.
OS
AnandTech has also repeatedly tested machines for their usage on a single charge. Apple?s products win. Even on the Macs with Bootcamp running Mac OS X bests Windows. How is this not a sign of quality?
Customer Service
I never feel like I?m taking a risk when buying an Apple product. I?ll even spend a little extra in their stores for 3rd-party products because I know if there is an issue ? all CE will be fualty for someone, somewhere ? they will deal with it in a way I appreciate. They don?t even care if you bought it online or at a different B&M store, which is something I?ve had issue with in the past with other large retail chains. I think that is important a sign of quality.
Processors
This one isn?t verifiable (and I?m only throwing it in there because I think it?s interesting): there are many deep into the tech world that have suspected that Apple gets premium components within batches. Even items that are made on an assembly line and of the same model number are not the same. With something as complex as microprocessors it?s possible that power consumption, while still within spec, could be at the high-end. It?s suspected that Apple is buying the product that is consuming less power. Again, this can?t be verified, it?s only been speculated, but if true it?s another aspect of quality that won?t be noticed when looking at a model number.
Conclusion
How is this possible if Apple isn?t focusing on the quality of their products?
Okay this wasn't what I was saying. People are using the BMW to Ford nonsense again without actually coming out and saying it.
Quality as far as fit and finish compared to a Tier 1 vendor that is fine but I find it interesting that many Apple users tend to bring up only Dell and HP.
I disagree 110% when it comes to Apple and drivers. I think Apple drives suck and what I hate the most is when Apple screws up their drivers you and I have to wait for Apple to fix them. Firmware is another good example. Apple has had more then one issue with iMac Gpu firmware that people have to wait months for Apple to fix.
In Windows if you have a driver problem you can simple go to the Nvidia or ATI site and download another driver. I have rarely if ever had driver issues in Windows and have never had the heat problems using a Windows system when Apple is known for heat issues.
Apple over they year has had more then its fair share of heat issues due to bad design and putting looks before function. To deny that is a joke.
Seeing we can't pull any real data on things like Trackpads and I think Asus makes pretty good ones lets talk about CPU's because I assume you are talking about CPU Stepping.
When you pay a reasonable price and use a good company when ordering a system you can make sure you get the Cpu Stepping you want you don't have to guess if Apple is getting some mystery advantage.
I'm actually getting into points that are boring to me to even debate.
The point I was trying to make was people make it sound as if Apple is using some special hardware that makes their products last longer. That is untrue. A product of equal cost will last as long as an Apple system if not longer.
I have Velocity Micro systems that I had built to order that are five years old and run as well as the day I got them. People on these forums want to compare a 2800.00 MBP to a 800.00 HP.
My points were about hardware not overall user experience and custormer support. I am fairly sure I made that clear in one of my other posts.
I buy and Apple computer because of the overall product not because I think the harddrive or ram is going to last much longer.
How can one make a chart about profit shares in smartphones when Apple doesn't even break down its profit for different products and services?
Dude, read the Apple support forums. Really.
Dude, I read the support forums .... as well as the customer satisfaction reports from independent research companies. Really. ..... and guess what ... the overwhelming majority opinion is that Apple leads the way in design, quality and profits of most other computer manufacturers.
Customers also "vote with their wallet" and I'm sure your aware of the fact that, in an era where overall computer sales are, shall we say, "disappointing" ... Apple continues to have yoy increases ... quarter after quarter. Lastly, even as biased as you are, you just have to look at ebay and see the "used Apple product" that constantly holds it's value more than any of it's competitors ... something that people like you always seem to "forget to mention". Do yourself a favor and drop the argument about Apple hardware quality because you're just making yourself look more foolish each time out.