Quality as far as fit and finish compared to a Tier 1 vendor that is fine but I find it interesting that many Apple users tend to bring up only Dell and HP.
You have to choose examples that are understand to your audience. Using company and product that aren?t known or understood will hurt your argument. This is why the car analogy works so well, even if it is tired. Hell, it?s a tired argument because it works so well. Dell and HP are just well known companies that cover all a huge gamut of product types, even if most of all of their consumer products are poorly made.
Quote:
I disagree 110% when it comes to Apple and drivers. I think Apple drives suck and what I hate the most is when Apple screws up their drivers you and I have to wait for Apple to fix them. Firmware is another good example. Apple has had more then one issue with iMac Gpu firmware that people have to wait months for Apple to fix.
In Windows if you have a driver problem you can simple go to the Nvidia or ATI site and download another driver. I have rarely if ever had driver issues in Windows and have never had the heat problems using a Windows system when Apple is known for heat issues.
Apple over they year has had more then its fair share of heat issues due to bad design and putting looks before function. To deny that is a joke.
Apple has plenty of aspects that aren?t the highest quality, the GPU drivers are a convenient example of that, but you stated that "Apple doesn't use anything that is any higher quality them most other companies? and that?s what I responded to.
All CE has issues. There are dozens of companies involved with all CE these days. Anyone of these pieces can go bad and affect the entire product. Using ?quality? components or have more ?QC? can help avoid it, but it?s no guarantee. Even today we got word of Intel?s chipset with a fault. That?s just a single chipset, not an entire machine.
Quote:
Seeing we can't pull any real data on things like Trackpads and I think Asus makes pretty good ones lets talk about CPU's because I assume you are talking about CPU Stepping.
Asus makes good quality machines. If I couldn?t buy a Mac I?d get something from Asus. Note they are a company that has been employed by Apple on several occasions to build the components they design.
They were one of the first to ship a MoBo with USB 3.0 using that Toshiba(?) USB 3.0 controller, which made me wonder if Apple?s next Mac releases would offer USB 3.0 MoBos designed by Apple, but built by Asus.
Quote:
The point I was trying to make was people make it sound as if Apple is using some special hardware that makes their products last longer. That is untrue. A product of equal cost will last as long as an Apple system if not longer.
You wrote about quality, you didn?t isolate it to only HW that is freely had by other vendors. Nearly all physical products can be had by other vendors, even the aluminium for the chassis.
What about the MBP batteries? Do most notebooks ship with Li-Poly-Ion batteries that can have 1000 charge cycle rating (before they get to 80%)? It seems to me most still use Li-Ion with less dense cells giving you a lower mAh for a giving volume.
This doesn?t mean others can?t offer these across the line like Apple does, it?s that they don?t. Apple?s success really doesn?t seem to be because they are smarter than the competition, instead it seems their success stems from Apple being focused on the long term, not quarter to quarter.
Quote:
I have Velocity Micro systems that I had built to order that are five years old and run as well as the day I got them. People on these forums want to compare a 2800.00 MBP to a 800.00 HP.
I compared to the HP Envys, but not because they are considerably more expensive but because the horrible trackpad was a good example of quality. The Envy is also a good example of quality compared to an average priced HP notebook . HP spent a lot more money to create a quieter, thinner machine. This type of shrinking it?s cheap and is more likely to have issues, which costs even more for QC. You can?t stuff more into less space and have it be easier and cheaper to do.
Quote:
[My points were about hardware not overall user experience and custormer support. I am fairly sure I made that clear in one of my other posts.
I buy and Apple computer because of the overall product not because I think the harddrive or ram is going to last much longer.
I commented I posted on was about quality. It was ambiguous, but I think I covered all major areas of quality in my previous post. As for the longevity of Macs my experience is that they last longer, but anecdotal accounts aren?t going to be useful for this discussion.
There are also plenty of reports of resale value of Mac and that Macs are used longer than non-Mac PCs. The former is more about their desirability but also can be argued for their quality and the latter is likely an issue with Windows, vendor and 3rd-party apps making people think they need a new system when a clean system could resolve much of their woes, but that also points to quality or lack thereof from MS and vendors when it comes to coding.
You are either a sadist or a bullshitter to have so much stated trouble ..... but continue to buy from same company .... my money is on bullshitter.
No mate, he was just giving an accurate depiction of Apple's less than stellar design and QC.
Let me see.. My SE video and power boards both died. Both were badly designed and were known issues. The hard drive in my 15gb 3rd gen iPod died within 3 months. My Macbook 13" unibody wouldn't read or write dual layer discs, so I had to get a new drive on warranty, again, a known issue. The audio quality via the headphone socket is still lousy as it was they day it was purchased. I seriously wish I had returned it for a full refund but I needed it due to my Ti Powerbook having died. Oh yes, the hinges broke on that one, another known issue due to inadequate design. Way too highly stressed for a small component and the sort of thing I imagine wants to use liquid metal for. Oh, and eventually the CPU came unstuck from the MB
My Macbook also has the faulty design mag safe power connector so I may be on borrowed time with that. Must remember to get a fire extinguisher. AFAIK, Apple only did a recall of those in the US, tough shit if you don't live in the US, the usual Apple attitude. Speaking of which, my 3rd gen iPod battery never performed as claimed by apple and I had to replace it at my expense, again there was a recall/exchange in the US which wasn't extended overseas.
If it wasn't for OSX, I wouldn't buy another Apple computer but have eschewed all the iOS devices as there are good alternatives.
Man I am getting sick and tired in reading "I had a bad experience with product X and it is in no way better than product Y" Or product A is more expensive than B, and it shouldn't be.
There will always be situations where a Mac that was purchased has issues with it, and there will be situations where a Windows based computer will out last a Mac.
What is the point in arguing ?
The best point to bring across is that generally speaking Macs are built better, they last longer, they have better resale value, the UI experience is far too ahead to even make a comparison.
There will always be people who disagree, that is their choice, no point banging your head against the wall to try and turn them around, I have given up.
I chat with Windows users, if I feel that they are flexible in their attitudes, not ignorant and will gladly hear the other side of the story, then I will Mac shop with them, otherwise I won't even bother.
It seems that some people will never change, so no point in arguing with them.
In 2010 Android grew a 660% so this year will grown as well 660% but if you look at the second graph you dont see that kind of growth in the manufacturers.
Most of Android growth has came from the Samsung-Motorola-LG-SE builders of 28% of all phones transitioning from using Symbian-linux-WP6 to use Android, thats a one time deal.
If you look at the graph the only ones to grow Android market as a whole was the other category.
Apple has almost double its production and has verily keep with demand( some countries show the availability of iPhone 4 as late as october-november ), if you are selling all that you are able to build is absurd to reduce prices, Apple should began to think about reducing prices the year after the world roll out of iPhone ?? happend in 3 months.
How many Dells have you owned, and have you never had any Apple product that wasn't recalled or at least covered under a blanket replacement policy because of a discovered defect?
Look, I love my Mac, but this everything-that-doesn't-carry-an-Apple-logo-is-crap stuff-while-Apple-stuff-is-always-perfect just makes the Mac community look ignorant.
Let see I went through 3 or 4 Dell laptop at work in the past 5 yrs until my company finally moved to HP. The HP is doing better than the Dell, however stupid little things went wrong but did not shut me down. My wife is on her 2nd or 3rd Dell laptop in 6 or 7 years. So yes I have direct experience with them and my Mac get as much of work out as my work computers that is for sure. The only reason for me to get rid of a mac is when I want the latest technology, however, usually I keep the old on since it still works fine and relegate it to some other use in the home
I have owned macs both for work and home since 84, and I can count on 1 hand how many time I had a "hardware" failure which required me to repair it or sending it to the local repair store. Besides that I have direct knowledge on what Apple does when they qualify a product. Also a friend I use to work with left Dell and he was responsible for all of Dell's testing and qualification testing of new product and he would tell you he left there because they really did not want to do what was really right. They always did a cost analysis on whether it was worth spending extra to make something better. The analysis was along as it failed out side of the warranty period that was good enough.
I know this is all opinions at best, if you want to put real $ and Cents around this, look up what Apple and many other companies put into their required warranty reserves and divide that by the number of products they ship each year and it will give you an idea what they expect will come back. The higher the cost per unit the worse it is. The problem with apple now is they ship more than computer so the numbers will be not paint an accurate picture. If you are looking to compare computers.
My brother's family uses a PC. They're on their fourth one in less than 7 years. Why? They gradually slow to a crawl. When they take them in to Best Buy for evaluation, it turns out it's cheaper just a buy a new one. Into the land fill it goes.
My father and I run Macs. My dad ran the same crusty old G4 tower for 6 years and only upgraded to a Mini because he wanted to run the latest iteration of OS X-- it was still running fine. Myself, I've owned a G4 Tower and a couple of MacBook Pros, and they're all still going strong. I use the last MacBook as a media server and the G4 is in mothballs.
My brother considered a Mac but decided it was too expensive. For the price of his multiple PCs he could have had several Macs.
Anecdotal, to be sure, but I suspect the "replace every 1 to 2 years" model is pretty prevalent in consumer PC land, and helps to obscure any troubling data regarding longevity and TCO. Also sells a lot of whatever the current Windows is licenses, so I suspect its an intentional model that benefits both MS and its hardware partners.
.... Let me see.. My SE video and power boards both died. Both were badly designed and were known issues. The hard drive in my 15gb 3rd gen iPod died within 3 months. My Macbook 13" unibody wouldn't read or write dual layer discs, so I had to get a new drive on warranty, again, a known issue. The audio quality via the headphone socket is still lousy as it was they day it was purchased. I seriously wish I had returned it for a full refund but I needed it due to my Ti Powerbook having died. Oh yes, the hinges broke on that one, another known issue due to inadequate design. Way too highly stressed for a small component and the sort of thing I imagine wants to use liquid metal for. Oh, and eventually the CPU came unstuck from the MB
My Macbook also has the faulty design mag safe power connector so I may be on borrowed time with that. Must remember to get a fire extinguisher. AFAIK, Apple only did a recall of those in the US, tough shit if you don't live in the US, the usual Apple attitude. Speaking of which, my 3rd gen iPod battery never performed as claimed by apple and I had to replace it at my expense, again there was a recall/exchange in the US which wasn't extended overseas......
The great thing about the internet is that one can claim anything, with no accountability, no matter how unbelievable it is .... and it is unbelievable, to me at least, that any sane person would put up with the kind of repeated problems, that you both say you had, and still stick with the same company, so whether your stories are true or not and since we have no way to prove them .... I stand by my bullshit call.
Profits are irrelevant in a discussion of quality.
What are you talking about. It's the higher quality that allows for higher prices/profit margins. Try charging more for crap and see how far you get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
In fact, consider this: if Apple spends more on higher-quality parts than their competitors, wouldn't we expect their margins to be on par or lower, rather than so very much higher?
Only if they charged the same price .... and they don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
I never said Apple makes crap computers.
No, all you did was give a list as long as your arm of all the "problems" you've had with them .... sounds like a crap PC to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
If you've bought as many of them as I have, you wouldn't argue with me.
Last time I checked, no one had a monopoly on buying a Mac ... and since you don't know me ... you don't have a clue about how many Macs I may or may not have bought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
Sure, people like 'em. I like 'em. But that doesn't mean they never break, or that Apple has never had to recall any of them, or that the Apple support forums don't contain millions of legitimate posts of problems with them.
You know, there's not many degrees to separate a lie from exaggeration. You may want to restate this "fact".
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
Have a better day.
Thanks, but if my day was any better ... I couldn't stand it. ....
Apple's component costs are not that much higher than the rest of the industry.
But it's prices are higher.
The reason for this is not superior components,
but a superior consumer experience.
This derives from
a) Better industrial design
b) Properly integrated software with fewer incompatibility issues
c) Good aftercare service
Together these elements offer create a perception of a better experience and better value for money. This is how Apple adds value.
The build cost of a Nokia N8 is pretty much the same as the iPhone 4.
But after a few months in the market. The market has repriced the N8. And it is selling for $200 less.
It's not hard to solder together $200 of parts and sell a product for $215.
The magic is taking $200 of parts and have the market tell you its worth $450. Your profit has gone up tenfold.
C.
First off, with me , you're "preaching to the converted". Having said that: IMHO, only people/bloggers and the like, with no experience at running a company, put any faith in the relationship between "build cost" and profits. That comparison "leaves out the cost of all of the rest of the "Apple Experience" ... from design and research .... all the way to the retail stores. That's why I get a kick of those sites that say .... "but look at the build cost ... the same as XYZ company but Apple are "ripping" us off with their "high margins" .....
Comments
Quality as far as fit and finish compared to a Tier 1 vendor that is fine but I find it interesting that many Apple users tend to bring up only Dell and HP.
You have to choose examples that are understand to your audience. Using company and product that aren?t known or understood will hurt your argument. This is why the car analogy works so well, even if it is tired. Hell, it?s a tired argument because it works so well. Dell and HP are just well known companies that cover all a huge gamut of product types, even if most of all of their consumer products are poorly made.
I disagree 110% when it comes to Apple and drivers. I think Apple drives suck and what I hate the most is when Apple screws up their drivers you and I have to wait for Apple to fix them. Firmware is another good example. Apple has had more then one issue with iMac Gpu firmware that people have to wait months for Apple to fix.
In Windows if you have a driver problem you can simple go to the Nvidia or ATI site and download another driver. I have rarely if ever had driver issues in Windows and have never had the heat problems using a Windows system when Apple is known for heat issues.
Apple over they year has had more then its fair share of heat issues due to bad design and putting looks before function. To deny that is a joke.
Apple has plenty of aspects that aren?t the highest quality, the GPU drivers are a convenient example of that, but you stated that "Apple doesn't use anything that is any higher quality them most other companies? and that?s what I responded to.
All CE has issues. There are dozens of companies involved with all CE these days. Anyone of these pieces can go bad and affect the entire product. Using ?quality? components or have more ?QC? can help avoid it, but it?s no guarantee. Even today we got word of Intel?s chipset with a fault. That?s just a single chipset, not an entire machine.
Seeing we can't pull any real data on things like Trackpads and I think Asus makes pretty good ones lets talk about CPU's because I assume you are talking about CPU Stepping.
Asus makes good quality machines. If I couldn?t buy a Mac I?d get something from Asus. Note they are a company that has been employed by Apple on several occasions to build the components they design.
They were one of the first to ship a MoBo with USB 3.0 using that Toshiba(?) USB 3.0 controller, which made me wonder if Apple?s next Mac releases would offer USB 3.0 MoBos designed by Apple, but built by Asus.
The point I was trying to make was people make it sound as if Apple is using some special hardware that makes their products last longer. That is untrue. A product of equal cost will last as long as an Apple system if not longer.
You wrote about quality, you didn?t isolate it to only HW that is freely had by other vendors. Nearly all physical products can be had by other vendors, even the aluminium for the chassis.
What about the MBP batteries? Do most notebooks ship with Li-Poly-Ion batteries that can have 1000 charge cycle rating (before they get to 80%)? It seems to me most still use Li-Ion with less dense cells giving you a lower mAh for a giving volume.
This doesn?t mean others can?t offer these across the line like Apple does, it?s that they don?t. Apple?s success really doesn?t seem to be because they are smarter than the competition, instead it seems their success stems from Apple being focused on the long term, not quarter to quarter.
I have Velocity Micro systems that I had built to order that are five years old and run as well as the day I got them. People on these forums want to compare a 2800.00 MBP to a 800.00 HP.
I compared to the HP Envys, but not because they are considerably more expensive but because the horrible trackpad was a good example of quality. The Envy is also a good example of quality compared to an average priced HP notebook . HP spent a lot more money to create a quieter, thinner machine. This type of shrinking it?s cheap and is more likely to have issues, which costs even more for QC. You can?t stuff more into less space and have it be easier and cheaper to do.
[My points were about hardware not overall user experience and custormer support. I am fairly sure I made that clear in one of my other posts.
I buy and Apple computer because of the overall product not because I think the harddrive or ram is going to last much longer.
I commented I posted on was about quality. It was ambiguous, but I think I covered all major areas of quality in my previous post. As for the longevity of Macs my experience is that they last longer, but anecdotal accounts aren?t going to be useful for this discussion.
There are also plenty of reports of resale value of Mac and that Macs are used longer than non-Mac PCs. The former is more about their desirability but also can be argued for their quality and the latter is likely an issue with Windows, vendor and 3rd-party apps making people think they need a new system when a clean system could resolve much of their woes, but that also points to quality or lack thereof from MS and vendors when it comes to coding.
You are either a sadist or a bullshitter to have so much stated trouble ..... but continue to buy from same company .... my money is on bullshitter.
No mate, he was just giving an accurate depiction of Apple's less than stellar design and QC.
Let me see.. My SE video and power boards both died. Both were badly designed and were known issues. The hard drive in my 15gb 3rd gen iPod died within 3 months. My Macbook 13" unibody wouldn't read or write dual layer discs, so I had to get a new drive on warranty, again, a known issue. The audio quality via the headphone socket is still lousy as it was they day it was purchased. I seriously wish I had returned it for a full refund but I needed it due to my Ti Powerbook having died. Oh yes, the hinges broke on that one, another known issue due to inadequate design. Way too highly stressed for a small component and the sort of thing I imagine wants to use liquid metal for. Oh, and eventually the CPU came unstuck from the MB
My Macbook also has the faulty design mag safe power connector so I may be on borrowed time with that. Must remember to get a fire extinguisher. AFAIK, Apple only did a recall of those in the US, tough shit if you don't live in the US, the usual Apple attitude. Speaking of which, my 3rd gen iPod battery never performed as claimed by apple and I had to replace it at my expense, again there was a recall/exchange in the US which wasn't extended overseas.
If it wasn't for OSX, I wouldn't buy another Apple computer but have eschewed all the iOS devices as there are good alternatives.
There will always be situations where a Mac that was purchased has issues with it, and there will be situations where a Windows based computer will out last a Mac.
What is the point in arguing ?
The best point to bring across is that generally speaking Macs are built better, they last longer, they have better resale value, the UI experience is far too ahead to even make a comparison.
There will always be people who disagree, that is their choice, no point banging your head against the wall to try and turn them around, I have given up.
I chat with Windows users, if I feel that they are flexible in their attitudes, not ignorant and will gladly hear the other side of the story, then I will Mac shop with them, otherwise I won't even bother.
It seems that some people will never change, so no point in arguing with them.
In 2010 Android grew a 660% so this year will grown as well 660% but if you look at the second graph you dont see that kind of growth in the manufacturers.
Most of Android growth has came from the Samsung-Motorola-LG-SE builders of 28% of all phones transitioning from using Symbian-linux-WP6 to use Android, thats a one time deal.
If you look at the graph the only ones to grow Android market as a whole was the other category.
Apple has almost double its production and has verily keep with demand( some countries show the availability of iPhone 4 as late as october-november ), if you are selling all that you are able to build is absurd to reduce prices, Apple should began to think about reducing prices the year after the world roll out of iPhone ?? happend in 3 months.
How many Dells have you owned, and have you never had any Apple product that wasn't recalled or at least covered under a blanket replacement policy because of a discovered defect?
Look, I love my Mac, but this everything-that-doesn't-carry-an-Apple-logo-is-crap stuff-while-Apple-stuff-is-always-perfect just makes the Mac community look ignorant.
Let see I went through 3 or 4 Dell laptop at work in the past 5 yrs until my company finally moved to HP. The HP is doing better than the Dell, however stupid little things went wrong but did not shut me down. My wife is on her 2nd or 3rd Dell laptop in 6 or 7 years. So yes I have direct experience with them and my Mac get as much of work out as my work computers that is for sure. The only reason for me to get rid of a mac is when I want the latest technology, however, usually I keep the old on since it still works fine and relegate it to some other use in the home
I have owned macs both for work and home since 84, and I can count on 1 hand how many time I had a "hardware" failure which required me to repair it or sending it to the local repair store. Besides that I have direct knowledge on what Apple does when they qualify a product. Also a friend I use to work with left Dell and he was responsible for all of Dell's testing and qualification testing of new product and he would tell you he left there because they really did not want to do what was really right. They always did a cost analysis on whether it was worth spending extra to make something better. The analysis was along as it failed out side of the warranty period that was good enough.
I know this is all opinions at best, if you want to put real $ and Cents around this, look up what Apple and many other companies put into their required warranty reserves and divide that by the number of products they ship each year and it will give you an idea what they expect will come back. The higher the cost per unit the worse it is. The problem with apple now is they ship more than computer so the numbers will be not paint an accurate picture. If you are looking to compare computers.
My father and I run Macs. My dad ran the same crusty old G4 tower for 6 years and only upgraded to a Mini because he wanted to run the latest iteration of OS X-- it was still running fine. Myself, I've owned a G4 Tower and a couple of MacBook Pros, and they're all still going strong. I use the last MacBook as a media server and the G4 is in mothballs.
My brother considered a Mac but decided it was too expensive. For the price of his multiple PCs he could have had several Macs.
Anecdotal, to be sure, but I suspect the "replace every 1 to 2 years" model is pretty prevalent in consumer PC land, and helps to obscure any troubling data regarding longevity and TCO. Also sells a lot of whatever the current Windows is licenses, so I suspect its an intentional model that benefits both MS and its hardware partners.
.... Let me see.. My SE video and power boards both died. Both were badly designed and were known issues. The hard drive in my 15gb 3rd gen iPod died within 3 months. My Macbook 13" unibody wouldn't read or write dual layer discs, so I had to get a new drive on warranty, again, a known issue. The audio quality via the headphone socket is still lousy as it was they day it was purchased. I seriously wish I had returned it for a full refund but I needed it due to my Ti Powerbook having died. Oh yes, the hinges broke on that one, another known issue due to inadequate design. Way too highly stressed for a small component and the sort of thing I imagine wants to use liquid metal for. Oh, and eventually the CPU came unstuck from the MB
My Macbook also has the faulty design mag safe power connector so I may be on borrowed time with that. Must remember to get a fire extinguisher. AFAIK, Apple only did a recall of those in the US, tough shit if you don't live in the US, the usual Apple attitude. Speaking of which, my 3rd gen iPod battery never performed as claimed by apple and I had to replace it at my expense, again there was a recall/exchange in the US which wasn't extended overseas......
The great thing about the internet is that one can claim anything, with no accountability, no matter how unbelievable it is .... and it is unbelievable, to me at least, that any sane person would put up with the kind of repeated problems, that you both say you had, and still stick with the same company, so whether your stories are true or not and since we have no way to prove them .... I stand by my bullshit call.
Profits are irrelevant in a discussion of quality.
What are you talking about. It's the higher quality that allows for higher prices/profit margins. Try charging more for crap and see how far you get.
In fact, consider this: if Apple spends more on higher-quality parts than their competitors, wouldn't we expect their margins to be on par or lower, rather than so very much higher?
Only if they charged the same price .... and they don't.
I never said Apple makes crap computers.
No, all you did was give a list as long as your arm of all the "problems" you've had with them .... sounds like a crap PC to me.
If you've bought as many of them as I have, you wouldn't argue with me.
Last time I checked, no one had a monopoly on buying a Mac ... and since you don't know me ... you don't have a clue about how many Macs I may or may not have bought.
Sure, people like 'em. I like 'em. But that doesn't mean they never break, or that Apple has never had to recall any of them, or that the Apple support forums don't contain millions of legitimate posts of problems with them.
You know, there's not many degrees to separate a lie from exaggeration. You may want to restate this "fact".
Have a better day.
Thanks, but if my day was any better ... I couldn't stand it. ....
What are you talking about. It's the higher quality that allows for higher prices/profit margins. Try charging more for crap and see how far you get.
Apple's component costs are not that much higher than the rest of the industry.
But it's prices are higher.
The reason for this is not superior components,
but a superior consumer experience.
This derives from
a) Better industrial design
b) Properly integrated software with fewer incompatibility issues
c) Good aftercare service
Together these elements offer create a perception of a better experience and better value for money. This is how Apple adds value.
The build cost of a Nokia N8 is pretty much the same as the iPhone 4.
But after a few months in the market. The market has repriced the N8. And it is selling for $200 less.
It's not hard to solder together $200 of parts and sell a product for $215.
The magic is taking $200 of parts and have the market tell you its worth $450. Your profit has gone up tenfold.
C.
Apple's component costs are not that much higher than the rest of the industry.
But it's prices are higher.
The reason for this is not superior components,
but a superior consumer experience.
This derives from
a) Better industrial design
b) Properly integrated software with fewer incompatibility issues
c) Good aftercare service
Together these elements offer create a perception of a better experience and better value for money. This is how Apple adds value.
The build cost of a Nokia N8 is pretty much the same as the iPhone 4.
But after a few months in the market. The market has repriced the N8. And it is selling for $200 less.
It's not hard to solder together $200 of parts and sell a product for $215.
The magic is taking $200 of parts and have the market tell you its worth $450. Your profit has gone up tenfold.
C.
First off, with me , you're "preaching to the converted". Having said that: IMHO, only people/bloggers and the like, with no experience at running a company, put any faith in the relationship between "build cost" and profits. That comparison "leaves out the cost of all of the rest of the "Apple Experience" ... from design and research .... all the way to the retail stores. That's why I get a kick of those sites that say .... "but look at the build cost ... the same as XYZ company but Apple are "ripping" us off with their "high margins" .....