Apple releases developer preview of Mac OS X 10.7 Lion

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  • Reply 61 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


    You must know some very stupid people, or have a very low opinion of the average intelligent individual. There aren't that many people on the planet who haven't played with an iOS device or used a track pad before.



    ...and by planet, you mean, "California," of course...
  • Reply 62 of 109
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ACK View Post


    ...and by planet, you mean, "California," of course...



    Welcome back.
  • Reply 63 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I seems as if, after they invented the pretty cool layered message view feature, the programmers were so enamored with it that they could not be persuaded to remove that part of the view controller when it went into edit mode.



    In their defense, it's not an entirely unreasonable decision that you should show people what it is that they are about to delete, but, it might be better if this were optional. One thing that is annoying about the implementation, though, is that after you delete messages, it may still be displaying the last displayed but deleted message instead of, perhaps, an empty view, which would make more sense, in my opinion. The deleted message stays there until you select another message, but it's no longer in the message list, which is certainly confusing.
  • Reply 64 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Imagine a beginner sitting down to a Mac with all those gestures enabled. They're just trying to learn the trackpad and they'll be having things flying left right and centre and not understanding why. They will freak out.



    No, they will have been pre-trained on the gestures from the age of two on the family/friends/neighbors iPad, iPhone or iTouch.
  • Reply 65 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post


    No kidding.



    The first thing I do when I'm setting up a new Mac for a user is disable most of the multi-touch crap. Every time I forget, somebody calls me in a panic, "Why did everything on my desktop just get really small?!???!!???"



    The one-button mouse was one of Apple's best innovations. It's a shame they've forgotten that lesson.



    I am very happy about all the gestures and in fact downloaded a program that allows me to further customize the gestures and keyboard shortcuts. I LOVE LOVE LOVE them. I can do with a simple gesture something that would take a bit more time and effort. This is one of the main reasons why I love using the Mac so much.
  • Reply 66 of 109
    Will it come in white?
  • Reply 67 of 109
    My very employment has depended on Apple and Microsoft operating systems lending themselves well to tweaks and optimizations for creative professionals to do their work efficiently. My clients need expensive, sophisticated software/hardware solutions running at speeds that exhaust the resources of the hardware. The features described here will only further drag us into a "dark period" that is the beginning of the end of the video post-production industry as we know it. I think Snow Leopard is a great OS for Final cut Studio 3, and, eventually, the many varieties of CS5. Most of my clients use tablets. I don't sell the moronic magic mouse, and the one client's setup where I "accidentally" did, yielded a guy demanding it go away because the lag from 8ft away made it unusable. (There was a $340 USB 2.0 extender already in place from the existing setup being upgraded).



    Apple needs to realize that killing the professional products (Xserve, Snow Leopard's "spirit," software sales conducted by resellers, the Mighty Mouse), they are executing an industry that kept them alive for the decade it took for them to realize that the iPod thingy generated more revenue than those computer thingies.



    They are, with "Lion," as one of you said, trying to make the iPhone/iPad converts more comfortable once they arrive. I get it. My 3.5yr-old daughter is a master at both the iOS on my iPad (company issue) and the Android OS on my phone (NOT company issue). For her, and adults at or below her level of comprehension, I say "well done" to the industry. These operating systems are great as gaming platforms and appliances for Google/Yahoo/Apple services like maps and email. They deserve a place in the industry, but should be on the other side if a wide rift - far apart from desktop computers.



    iPhone users who are new to Apple aren't buying the $7k Mac Pros that I am selling. They aren't - or shouldn't be - video editors and producers. It's all well and good that the people that, in fact, are still making tens of thousands of dollars at a time producing and editing video (not YouTube crap, and necessarily Hollywood movies in this context), ALSO have tablet devices and smartphones. They aren't asking Apple or Google or Microsoft to now modify their editing platforms to work more like their toys. Why would they?



    As for Windows 7 - my company laptop is a PC, and I ADORE Windows 7 compared to any Microsoft predecessor. With that said, it has been nothing short of a pain in the ass to implement in place of WinXP for my clients. Great for productivity boxes, but ironically unproductive for professionals.



    Apple has become the evil, self-righteous establishment they once considered their adversary. Way to not see the forest through the trees.
  • Reply 68 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ACK View Post


    My very employment has depended on Apple and Microsoft operating systems lending themselves well to tweaks and optimizations for creative professionals to do their work efficiently. My clients need expensive, sophisticated software/hardware solutions running at speeds that exhaust the resources of the hardware. The features described here will only further drag us into a "dark period" that is the beginning of the end of the video post-production industry as we know it. I think Snow Leopard is a great OS for Final cut Studio 3, and, eventually, the many varieties of CS5. Most of my clients use tablets. I don't sell the moronic magic mouse, and the one client's setup where I "accidentally" did, yielded a guy demanding it go away because the lag from 8ft away made it unusable. (There was a $340 USB 2.0 extender already in place from the existing setup being upgraded).



    Apple needs to realize that killing the professional products (Xserve, Snow Leopard's "spirit," software sales conducted by resellers, the Mighty Mouse), they are executing an industry that kept them alive for the decade it took for them to realize that the iPod thingy generated more revenue than those computer thingies.



    They are, with "Lion," as one of you said, trying to make the iPhone/iPad converts more comfortable once they arrive. I get it. My 3.5yr-old daughter is a master at both the iOS on my iPad (company issue) and the Android OS on my phone (NOT company issue). For her, and adults at or below her level of comprehension, I say "well done" to the industry. These operating systems are great as gaming platforms and appliances for Google/Yahoo/Apple services like maps and email. They deserve a place in the industry, but should be on the other side if a wide rift - far apart from desktop computers.



    iPhone users who are new to Apple aren't buying the $7k Mac Pros that I am selling. They aren't - or shouldn't be - video editors and producers. It's all well and good that the people that, in fact, are still making tens of thousands of dollars at a time producing and editing video (not YouTube crap, and necessarily Hollywood movies in this context), ALSO have tablet devices and smartphones. They aren't asking Apple or Google or Microsoft to now modify their editing platforms to work more like their toys. Why would they?



    As for Windows 7 - my company laptop is a PC, and I ADORE Windows 7 compared to any Microsoft predecessor. With that said, it has been nothing short of a pain in the ass to implement in place of WinXP for my clients. Great for productivity boxes, but ironically unproductive for professionals.



    Apple has become the evil, self-righteous establishment they once considered their adversary. Way to not see the forest through the trees.



    There is absolutely nothing in your post, or in Apple's actions, to justify your conclusion. Sounds like you just wanted to say that and threw in a bunch of words on various topics so that it might seem like you had made an actual argument.
  • Reply 69 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by johnmcboston View Post


    I'm concerned how many of these new features contain the word 'swipe'. How do you swipe with the mouse? (sorry, the new trackpads are just annoying and I won't be getting one...)



    Personally, I love the magic Trackpad and can't see how I would ever use a mouse with my iMac again. But those who don't like or don't have a Magic Trackpad can still do many of the multi-touch gestures on the Magic Mouse which comes standard with all new iMacs.
  • Reply 70 of 109
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Software that hasn't been updated in five years should expect not to run on a modern computer. Five years in the computer business is a long time.



    I would like Rosetta to continue, because I won't upgrade beyond Office 2004. There are other old programs that are better than the newer ones. I'll continue to use iMovie HD until it no longer works.



    Apple cut off support for OS9 programs, but they should continue to offer Rosetta.
  • Reply 71 of 109
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    In their defense, it's not an entirely unreasonable decision that you should show people what it is that they are about to delete, but, it might be better if this were optional. One thing that is annoying about the implementation, though, is that after you delete messages, it may still be displaying the last displayed but deleted message instead of, perhaps, an empty view, which would make more sense, in my opinion. The deleted message stays there until you select another message, but it's no longer in the message list, which is certainly confusing.



    I don't have my iPad with me at the moment, but I believe It is optional already with a trash icon, like iPhone. So if they removed the layering feature in the edit mode, it would theoretically still be possible to delete the message from the view mode if one was inclined to view the message prior to deleting it.
  • Reply 72 of 109
    With so few posts, you my friend, are going to get an earful.



    I don't disagree with you. I've been noticing Apple's decline away from the professional level, catering more towards the consumer. I think its made clear by this whole "Back to the Mac" thing of bringing iOS to the Mac, along with the focus on the iDevices (look at the top bar of Apple's web page and compare iDevices to Computer tabs. iDevices could have been all reduced to one tab easily.)



    I say, let Apple go in this direction. It appears to be best for shareholders, best for Apple as a company, best for the Jobs, best for their overall bottom line. How many companies out there can claim they have such a large amount in savings and rising profits in an economy like this? They are making money hand over fist my friend, and who wouldn't blame them for riding the current.



    I don't really like Apple, and I really don't like Microsoft either. I love the idea of Linux, and have various computers running some flavor. However, for professionals, especially in the AV world (of which I am a part in my current job), it can't cut the mustard. Not enough decent programs, and not enough funding or resources to pull it off.



    (In the AV world)

    Apple - Controlling, Consumer Based, Simple, Stable

    Microsoft - Controlling, Trying to do Too Much, Standard in Workplaces, Bloated

    Linux - Confusing for Consumers, Not enough large funded projects for AV, Build it to do what ever you want.



    Aka: No one wins. Its so disheartening and frustrating. I rely on all three OSs just to get my job done.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ACK View Post


    My very employment has depended on Apple and Microsoft operating systems lending themselves well to tweaks and optimizations for creative professionals to do their work efficiently. My clients need expensive, sophisticated software/hardware solutions running at speeds that exhaust the resources of the hardware. The features described here will only further drag us into a "dark period" that is the beginning of the end of the video post-production industry as we know it. I think Snow Leopard is a great OS for Final cut Studio 3, and, eventually, the many varieties of CS5. Most of my clients use tablets. I don't sell the moronic magic mouse, and the one client's setup where I "accidentally" did, yielded a guy demanding it go away because the lag from 8ft away made it unusable. (There was a $340 USB 2.0 extender already in place from the existing setup being upgraded).



    Apple needs to realize that killing the professional products (Xserve, Snow Leopard's "spirit," software sales conducted by resellers, the Mighty Mouse), they are executing an industry that kept them alive for the decade it took for them to realize that the iPod thingy generated more revenue than those computer thingies.



    They are, with "Lion," as one of you said, trying to make the iPhone/iPad converts more comfortable once they arrive. I get it. My 3.5yr-old daughter is a master at both the iOS on my iPad (company issue) and the Android OS on my phone (NOT company issue). For her, and adults at or below her level of comprehension, I say "well done" to the industry. These operating systems are great as gaming platforms and appliances for Google/Yahoo/Apple services like maps and email. They deserve a place in the industry, but should be on the other side if a wide rift - far apart from desktop computers.



    iPhone users who are new to Apple aren't buying the $7k Mac Pros that I am selling. They aren't - or shouldn't be - video editors and producers. It's all well and good that the people that, in fact, are still making tens of thousands of dollars at a time producing and editing video (not YouTube crap, and necessarily Hollywood movies in this context), ALSO have tablet devices and smartphones. They aren't asking Apple or Google or Microsoft to now modify their editing platforms to work more like their toys. Why would they?



    As for Windows 7 - my company laptop is a PC, and I ADORE Windows 7 compared to any Microsoft predecessor. With that said, it has been nothing short of a pain in the ass to implement in place of WinXP for my clients. Great for productivity boxes, but ironically unproductive for professionals.



    Apple has become the evil, self-righteous establishment they once considered their adversary. Way to not see the forest through the trees.



  • Reply 73 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stuffe View Post


    I think perhaps that a lot of less able users than you and I *do* expect their computers to start where they left off. I certainly know of plenty of users I have the need to "support" who just don't get saving, or even files and directories in a lot of cases. A bit of a switch in our expectations will probably harder for an experienced user to accept than the less able.



    As for versions, I totally get you, but let's not think for one second that your Mum would have ever bought and used a VME system for email Bringing what was once an enterprise feature (no matter how old) to everyone including your mum has to be a good thing so long as it's easy to use, and that's they key, not if it can be done, but if it can be done in a way that is understood and usable to your mum...





    Exactly! Thank you, I can't wait to get these feature in Lion onto my dad's iMac. He is 86 and God bless him does pretty well on an iMac, but most these features in this upgrade will help. Do people understand why people have Macs in the first place?
  • Reply 74 of 109
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stuffe View Post


    Aqua



    Aqua defines the look and feel that users come to expect from Mac OS X. Lion takes this experience and brings it to a new level with popovers, overlay scrollbars, and powerful Multi-Touch gestures and animations.

    Popovers



    AppKit framework now includes popovers, a new unit of content that can be positioned relative to other content on the screen. Popovers automatically move whenever the positioning view moves. You can also design popovers that can be detached, allowing them to become a separate window.

    Overlay Scrollbars



    Mac OS X Lion introduces overlay scrollbars similar to those in iOS. These scrollbars appear as an overlay on top of the window's content while the user is scrolling and remain visible briefly to allow scrollbar dragging.

    Multi-Touch Gestures and Animations



    The fluid, responsive animations that create the magical user experience on iPad and iPhone are available in Mac OS X Lion. Design your apps to use Multi-Touch gestures and animations and redefine the interaction users have with your apps



    This is disturbing. Popovers is a deal-killer, and animations in apps? If you can't turn all this stuff off, then I'm depressed. Who wants apps to look and act like webpages, with blinking lights, popovers, etc.?
  • Reply 75 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I don't have my iPad with me at the moment, but I believe It is optional already with a trash icon, like iPhone. So if they removed the layering feature in the edit mode, it would theoretically still be possible to delete the message from the view mode if one was inclined to view the message prior to deleting it.



    Nor do I, so I can't confirm that either.
  • Reply 76 of 109
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,605member
    I'll believe this version is easier to setup line of bull regarding OS X Server every time they release a new OS.



    I truly hope they have a server version a user who is a little above average can install and make use of. TIme machine backups, shared wiki's, shared calendar and address book, software updates should be a piece of cake to work with and offer "I want in" or "I want out of" access to the server benefits without a lot of work.
  • Reply 77 of 109
    I would like Lion to sync address books and calanders between computers on a network. My wife's computer has the master address book and calander. Tools to sync these with permissions are a must!
  • Reply 78 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post


    2005 called. They want their crappy CPUs back.



    They can have their CPUs. I just want to be able to run the code that written for them in an emulator.



    I suspect if you have Rosetta already in place and do an upgrade it should still work it was pretty self contained.
  • Reply 79 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post


    With so few posts, you my friend, are going to get an earful.



    I don't disagree with you. I've been noticing Apple's decline away from the professional level, catering more towards the consumer. I think its made clear by this whole "Back to the Mac" thing of bringing iOS to the Mac, along with the focus on the iDevices (look at the top bar of Apple's web page and compare iDevices to Computer tabs. iDevices could have been all reduced to one tab easily.)



    I say, let Apple go in this direction. It appears to be best for shareholders, best for Apple as a company, best for the Jobs, best for their overall bottom line. How many companies out there can claim they have such a large amount in savings and rising profits in an economy like this? They are making money hand over fist my friend, and who wouldn't blame them for riding the current.



    I don't really like Apple, and I really don't like Microsoft either. I love the idea of Linux, and have various computers running some flavor. However, for professionals, especially in the AV world (of which I am a part in my current job), it can't cut the mustard. Not enough decent programs, and not enough funding or resources to pull it off.



    (In the AV world)

    Apple - Controlling, Consumer Based, Simple, Stable

    Microsoft - Controlling, Trying to do Too Much, Standard in Workplaces, Bloated

    Linux - Confusing for Consumers, Not enough large funded projects for AV, Build it to do what ever you want.



    Aka: No one wins. Its so disheartening and frustrating. I rely on all three OSs just to get my job done.





    Interestingly, I was expecting said "earful" from you, but you only reiterated my point, and I agree with everything you said. I guess I apologize to the guy who didn't think I had anything to say. I assumed these points were obvious.
  • Reply 80 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    There is absolutely nothing in your post, or in Apple's actions, to justify your conclusion. Sounds like you just wanted to say that and threw in a bunch of words on various topics so that it might seem like you had made an actual argument.



    Maybe you missed the part where I cited the list of products they have killed? Does that count? All products that MATTER to the post-production industry? Unlike many posters on sites like this I'm sure, I don't have an Apple tattoo, don't live in my Mom's basement, and don't sit back and enjoy being spoon-fed the way I should feel about technology as it pertains to my ability to earn a living. I was an Apple geek in 1992. I owned (and still do) a Mac clone when Apple almost went away. I am certain I am a small fish in the pond with my Apple credentials, but I am a certified FCP7 trainer and am part of a very relevant reseller. I have every right to be disillusioned with Apple going in the direction of greatest opportunity for revenue. It makes the most business sense. However, I don't think it's the only way, and AGAIN, comes at the expense of the very large (yet comparatively irrelevant) group that kept them in business in the 90s.
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