Therein lies a big part of Microsoft's problem. They were once great in their own right, but that wasn't enough.
Mistake 1:
They attempted to take on others in areas where they clearly were at a disadvantage.
Mistake 2:
Instead of realizing that they had bitten off more than they could chew, they just chewed harder. Meanwhile, everyone else happily progressed into the 21st century.
Mistake 3:
Too little too late - Realizing that they were falling behind everyone else, they've spent the last 5 years trying frantically to catch up with the competition that they were once so sure they could crush.
What Microsoft should do is QUIT trying to catch up with everyone else and start focusing on something new and different like they did 20 years ago. That's the only chance they have of ever being as good as they once were.
At least that's the opinion of a 25 year Microsoft developer
Interesting perspective...
On the cusp of the post PC era, most people are concentrating on hardware...
I believe the key to the post PC era is the OS/UI -- and porting Windows to ARM is only half the job.
ROFL!! Yes, there can be no doubt, it failed only because of the reasons AI wrote about.
From everything I read the Zune it actually was reasonably good hardware. They had a great music subscription system, Zune Pass. All the music in their library for $15 bucks per month, plus you get credits to buy 10 songs each month.
I think the Zune failed primarily because of Microsoft's horrible marketing and of course, Apple's market dominance (well deserved be that as it may).
-kpluck
My neighbor has a Zune and really likes it. I sent him this story link.
Really though, I completely agree. The Zune was good hardware with OK software at best. The marketing was terrible (an entire campaign based on the word "social?"--WTF?). It's funny...I just posted on this topic of "iPod Killers."
Originally posted by SDW2001:
Quote:
It's like that every time a company tries to take down the iTunes/IPod/iPhone/iPad ecosystem. It's also like that with every iPad and iPod "killer" released. It's actually quite pathetic. Apple releases something, and everyone from Sony to RIM to M$ spends two years trying to catch up and release a "really great product that is in some ways better than the _____"
In each instance, they fail to realize that Apple's device is more than the sum of its parts. Everything works together seamlessly, even if there are some spec and feature flaws. Take that seamless, sleekly designed device, then add Apple's undeniable brand and "cool" factors, then combine it with a rabid fan/customer base and great marketing. Bingo, the Apple i____"
It's funny to watch company after company fail to "get it." They release products that are often technically better than Apple's (and sometimes not). But their phones are not iPhones. Their tablets are not iPads. Their stores are not Apple Stores. Their products quietly slip into obscurity...and not the "cult classic" kind of obscurity...just regular obscurity. They fail to realize that as much R&D as Apple does, as much innovation as they do...they have done just as much or more building of their gobal brand...eh... ICON. That is the icing on the cake. Apple is seen as cool, sexy, smart, modern, hip. Does anyone thing RIM or Microshaft are sexy? Cool? Smart? Hip? Of course not. These companies just don't realize that people aren't just buying products. They're buying the brand itself. They aren't just buying an awesome phone, or tablet, or computer that does really cool things. They're buying Apple.
I'm starting to wonder when some of these companies will just go their own way. Motorola has done that somewhat with its marketing towards men with the Droid. Some should just do what they do. Often, what they "do" is not where Apple lives. Does Sony really need a music store? Why does Micro$oft need to be in the phone OS business? Focus on what what got you there...Office and Windows...maybe XBox more recently. Samsung makes great displays/TVs. Stick to it. Sony makes audio/video equipment, PCs and video game systems. Stick to it. Apple doesn't care about TVs and video game consoles and AVRs.
Seems to me we have a whole bunch of huge companies consistently trying to out-Apple each other. FAIL.
The Zune was DOA. The hardware was horrible. The UI was fugly, the software was terrible, the OS was slow and did I say fugly? The sound qualtiy was terrible. No apps. Zune pass is a total rip off.
Its too bad for Nokia. They are going to die beacuse Windows Phone == Zune. Total failure. Horrid OS, Horrid UI, Horrid Silverlight based software, horrid software integration with the terrible Zune Itunes clone.
Microsoft is likely to continue on this downward slide for some time... and I'll shed no tears. Who knows, they may eventually even be bought up by someplace like Google or Facebook.
Now, that is a fascinating thought. Probably a few years ahead of its time, but a great prophecy nonetheless.
What Microsoft should do is QUIT trying to catch up with everyone else and start focusing on something new and different like they did 20 years ago. That's the only chance they have of ever being as good as they once were.
At least that's the opinion of a 25 year Microsoft developer
Welcome to AI, nice to hear from a veteran MS developer.
An honest question if I may. To what are you referring about MS 20 years ago, is it NT?
They could use it now.......I see you're making a desperate attempt to copy Apples products, can I help you with that?
Although when trying to save it would have to say, "I see you've already made a desperate attempt to copy Apples products......."
That would make a lot more sense if it were directed at Google and the manufacturers using Android. As it is right now, Microsoft isn't doing the lion's share of Apple-copying anymore. I was impressed with how different they made Windows 7 Phone when they could have taken the Google approach and rip iOS off wholesale.
msft always copies somebody elses product and manages to fail.
the brown zune is a perfect example. they made every employee get a truck drivers license so that the zune would look like the brown ups trucks and found out they couldn't drive.
ROFL!! Yes, there can be no doubt, it failed only because of the reasons AI wrote about.
From everything I read the Zune it actually was reasonably good hardware. They had a great music subscription system, Zune Pass. All the music in their library for $15 bucks per month, plus you get credits to buy 10 songs each month.
I think the Zune failed primarily because of Microsoft's horrible marketing and of course, Apple's market dominance (well deserved be that as it may).
-kpluck
Well aren't you the brightest bulb in the room. Perhaps they should have had you running the thing. Give us a break. It was a floating turd from the beginning from a horrible company that continually shows that they are unable to innovate at any level.
I agree. I own and love my ZuneHD. The media experience was unparalleled. ZunePass is an awesome service and I get to listen to tons of new music. I'm not sure why some Apple fans rejoice..multiple vendors in a marketplace create competition and keep prices under control. What happened when Apple got into a dominant position? they boned any developer with their subscription tax. No dominant vendor is good for competition and competition. Microsoft and Google keep Apple on their toes.
I love my iPad, iPhone, and Macbook Pro...but the ZuneHD is/was an awesome product that I enjoy quite a bit.
Competition is good, folks...
It is only compete morons who have no clue about basic business principles that call Apple's margin for sales on their system a "subscription tax". What retailer do you know that says "oh, I'll build a store and just let suppliers stock their inventory there while I do all the marketing, logistics, inventory, provide the sales and delivery platform, and take no cut of the sale"?
Well aren't you the brightest bulb in the room. Perhaps they should have had you running the thing. Give us a break. It was a floating turd from the beginning from a horrible company that continually shows that they are unable to innovate at any level.
Except with the Kinect. They actually leapfrogged the competition there, and as much as I hate them, I have to begrudgingly admit they seem to have a real gem there. Of course, this is all based on sales figures and the comments of others, since I have never used a Kinect and would rather bite the pimple on a goat's nutsack than buy an Xbox 360.
I was reading an online SciFi novella the other week, set during the second half of this century. The author included his derision of Apple products ("Always expensive") iPod, and that he much preferred the Zune bur they were not in stock. so recommended another unknown brand- not sure now if it was Tut, Tat or something else.
Then, when it came to the public, he recommended the Samsung tablet. With more disparaging remarks about the iPad.
ROTFL! Problem is that Canadian broadcasters have no interest in converting to HD Radio. iBiquity would have fraudulently collected royalties for Zune HD sales in Canada. MS is already in litigation over the Zune with the law firm of Galax Wolf, and iBiquity and the automakers are under investigation by Galax Wolf and Keefe Bartels. I think this was a move to avoid more legal problems. No question, with all of the issues with HD Radio, return rates for the Zune HD were probably high, plus MS had to pay iBiquity for including HD Radio. Fools!
Like you said, yet. What goes up must come down. I'm not saying iTunes/iPod will fall the way of the dodo, but it can drop like IE against its competitors. It's just that no one has figured it out.
One important distinction is that Apple has pushed and evolved the iPod since its introduction, morphing it into the current iOS-based iPod Touch. In fact, most of this evolution occurred during iPod's dominance.
IE is a different story: Microsoft beat Netscape and had IE installed in over 90% of computers, including the early versions of Mac OS X. Then they stopped at IE6, for several years. It looked like this was the end of browser innovation. It wasn't until new competitors like Firefox, Opera, Safari started to erode their browser dominance that Microsoft began upgrading IE.
Apple would have to complete stagnate like Microsoft did with IE6 before that kind of drop can take place. So far, they've stayed on top by staying on top. In other words, Apple is doing something right when people trade up from an iPod to a newer iPod.
Comments
Therein lies a big part of Microsoft's problem. They were once great in their own right, but that wasn't enough.
Mistake 1:
They attempted to take on others in areas where they clearly were at a disadvantage.
Mistake 2:
Instead of realizing that they had bitten off more than they could chew, they just chewed harder. Meanwhile, everyone else happily progressed into the 21st century.
Mistake 3:
Too little too late - Realizing that they were falling behind everyone else, they've spent the last 5 years trying frantically to catch up with the competition that they were once so sure they could crush.
What Microsoft should do is QUIT trying to catch up with everyone else and start focusing on something new and different like they did 20 years ago. That's the only chance they have of ever being as good as they once were.
At least that's the opinion of a 25 year Microsoft developer
Interesting perspective...
On the cusp of the post PC era, most people are concentrating on hardware...
I believe the key to the post PC era is the OS/UI -- and porting Windows to ARM is only half the job.
That stupid paper clip they put in word trumps all.
They could use it now.......I see you're making a desperate attempt to copy Apples products, can I help you with that?
Although when trying to save it would have to say, "I see you've already made a desperate attempt to copy Apples products......."
ROFL!! Yes, there can be no doubt, it failed only because of the reasons AI wrote about.
From everything I read the Zune it actually was reasonably good hardware. They had a great music subscription system, Zune Pass. All the music in their library for $15 bucks per month, plus you get credits to buy 10 songs each month.
I think the Zune failed primarily because of Microsoft's horrible marketing and of course, Apple's market dominance (well deserved be that as it may).
-kpluck
My neighbor has a Zune and really likes it. I sent him this story link.
Really though, I completely agree. The Zune was good hardware with OK software at best. The marketing was terrible (an entire campaign based on the word "social?"--WTF?). It's funny...I just posted on this topic of "iPod Killers."
Originally posted by SDW2001:
It's like that every time a company tries to take down the iTunes/IPod/iPhone/iPad ecosystem. It's also like that with every iPad and iPod "killer" released. It's actually quite pathetic. Apple releases something, and everyone from Sony to RIM to M$ spends two years trying to catch up and release a "really great product that is in some ways better than the _____"
In each instance, they fail to realize that Apple's device is more than the sum of its parts. Everything works together seamlessly, even if there are some spec and feature flaws. Take that seamless, sleekly designed device, then add Apple's undeniable brand and "cool" factors, then combine it with a rabid fan/customer base and great marketing. Bingo, the Apple i____"
It's funny to watch company after company fail to "get it." They release products that are often technically better than Apple's (and sometimes not). But their phones are not iPhones. Their tablets are not iPads. Their stores are not Apple Stores. Their products quietly slip into obscurity...and not the "cult classic" kind of obscurity...just regular obscurity. They fail to realize that as much R&D as Apple does, as much innovation as they do...they have done just as much or more building of their gobal brand...eh... ICON. That is the icing on the cake. Apple is seen as cool, sexy, smart, modern, hip. Does anyone thing RIM or Microshaft are sexy? Cool? Smart? Hip? Of course not. These companies just don't realize that people aren't just buying products. They're buying the brand itself. They aren't just buying an awesome phone, or tablet, or computer that does really cool things. They're buying Apple.
I'm starting to wonder when some of these companies will just go their own way. Motorola has done that somewhat with its marketing towards men with the Droid. Some should just do what they do. Often, what they "do" is not where Apple lives. Does Sony really need a music store? Why does Micro$oft need to be in the phone OS business? Focus on what what got you there...Office and Windows...maybe XBox more recently. Samsung makes great displays/TVs. Stick to it. Sony makes audio/video equipment, PCs and video game systems. Stick to it. Apple doesn't care about TVs and video game consoles and AVRs.
Seems to me we have a whole bunch of huge companies consistently trying to out-Apple each other. FAIL.
wilco, if you are out there, I think it is only fitting that you return and deliver the eulogy.
wilco, I forgot all about wilco! He's the reason I joined AI (because his Zune posts were driving me up the wall, and I had to sign on to respond).
Its too bad for Nokia. They are going to die beacuse Windows Phone == Zune. Total failure. Horrid OS, Horrid UI, Horrid Silverlight based software, horrid software integration with the terrible Zune Itunes clone.
Microsoft is likely to continue on this downward slide for some time... and I'll shed no tears. Who knows, they may eventually even be bought up by someplace like Google or Facebook.
Now, that is a fascinating thought. Probably a few years ahead of its time, but a great prophecy nonetheless.
What Microsoft should do is QUIT trying to catch up with everyone else and start focusing on something new and different like they did 20 years ago. That's the only chance they have of ever being as good as they once were.
At least that's the opinion of a 25 year Microsoft developer
Welcome to AI, nice to hear from a veteran MS developer.
An honest question if I may. To what are you referring about MS 20 years ago, is it NT?
All the best.
now they cant even figure out how to get it working properly
maybe their photocopier still has legacy 386 drivers it it just like their OS
They could use it now.......I see you're making a desperate attempt to copy Apples products, can I help you with that?
Although when trying to save it would have to say, "I see you've already made a desperate attempt to copy Apples products......."
That would make a lot more sense if it were directed at Google and the manufacturers using Android. As it is right now, Microsoft isn't doing the lion's share of Apple-copying anymore. I was impressed with how different they made Windows 7 Phone when they could have taken the Google approach and rip iOS off wholesale.
Is it my imagination or do Zune and Xoom sorta sound alike?
Funny, I was just thinking that yesterday while wondering what is going on with the Zune anyway. What perfect timing for this article.
the brown zune is a perfect example. they made every employee get a truck drivers license so that the zune would look like the brown ups trucks and found out they couldn't drive.
are the msft retail stores next to take a dive?
ROFL!! Yes, there can be no doubt, it failed only because of the reasons AI wrote about.
From everything I read the Zune it actually was reasonably good hardware. They had a great music subscription system, Zune Pass. All the music in their library for $15 bucks per month, plus you get credits to buy 10 songs each month.
I think the Zune failed primarily because of Microsoft's horrible marketing and of course, Apple's market dominance (well deserved be that as it may).
-kpluck
Well aren't you the brightest bulb in the room. Perhaps they should have had you running the thing. Give us a break. It was a floating turd from the beginning from a horrible company that continually shows that they are unable to innovate at any level.
I agree. I own and love my ZuneHD. The media experience was unparalleled. ZunePass is an awesome service and I get to listen to tons of new music. I'm not sure why some Apple fans rejoice..multiple vendors in a marketplace create competition and keep prices under control. What happened when Apple got into a dominant position? they boned any developer with their subscription tax. No dominant vendor is good for competition and competition. Microsoft and Google keep Apple on their toes.
I love my iPad, iPhone, and Macbook Pro...but the ZuneHD is/was an awesome product that I enjoy quite a bit.
Competition is good, folks...
It is only compete morons who have no clue about basic business principles that call Apple's margin for sales on their system a "subscription tax". What retailer do you know that says "oh, I'll build a store and just let suppliers stock their inventory there while I do all the marketing, logistics, inventory, provide the sales and delivery platform, and take no cut of the sale"?
Well aren't you the brightest bulb in the room. Perhaps they should have had you running the thing. Give us a break. It was a floating turd from the beginning from a horrible company that continually shows that they are unable to innovate at any level.
Except with the Kinect. They actually leapfrogged the competition there, and as much as I hate them, I have to begrudgingly admit they seem to have a real gem there. Of course, this is all based on sales figures and the comments of others, since I have never used a Kinect and would rather bite the pimple on a goat's nutsack than buy an Xbox 360.
Then, when it came to the public, he recommended the Samsung tablet. With more disparaging remarks about the iPad.
CGC
http://www.google.com/trends?q=zune%...ate=all&sort=0
ROTFL! Problem is that Canadian broadcasters have no interest in converting to HD Radio. iBiquity would have fraudulently collected royalties for Zune HD sales in Canada. MS is already in litigation over the Zune with the law firm of Galax Wolf, and iBiquity and the automakers are under investigation by Galax Wolf and Keefe Bartels. I think this was a move to avoid more legal problems. No question, with all of the issues with HD Radio, return rates for the Zune HD were probably high, plus MS had to pay iBiquity for including HD Radio. Fools!
Of all the dumbass things Microsoft have done over the years, I would vote releasing a Zune in brown as the second dumbest thing.
Oh, I dunno, somehow brown suits a turd just fine.
Like you said, yet. What goes up must come down. I'm not saying iTunes/iPod will fall the way of the dodo, but it can drop like IE against its competitors. It's just that no one has figured it out.
One important distinction is that Apple has pushed and evolved the iPod since its introduction, morphing it into the current iOS-based iPod Touch. In fact, most of this evolution occurred during iPod's dominance.
IE is a different story: Microsoft beat Netscape and had IE installed in over 90% of computers, including the early versions of Mac OS X. Then they stopped at IE6, for several years. It looked like this was the end of browser innovation. It wasn't until new competitors like Firefox, Opera, Safari started to erode their browser dominance that Microsoft began upgrading IE.
Apple would have to complete stagnate like Microsoft did with IE6 before that kind of drop can take place. So far, they've stayed on top by staying on top. In other words, Apple is doing something right when people trade up from an iPod to a newer iPod.