I never have seen a Zune in the wild. I have seen them in stores, but never in the hands of a consumer.
Same here, although I did see some girls at a Target store once weighing the benefits of iPod vs. Zune and they settled on Zune. I shed a tear for them now.
Of all the dumbass things Microsoft have done over the years, I would vote releasing a Zune in brown as the second dumbest thing.
The dumbest obviously is Balmer being appointed CEO.
What do you think second dumbest is?
The dumbest thing Microsoft ever did? I think it is obvious now: not creating a decent, modern portable operating system. Windows Mobile was unusable and they knew it yet did nothing until iOS and Android forced them to wake up.
So in many ways IMO the code will to be a fairly large break that's at least likely to make at least a big hunk of software and maybe all drivers that currently work on Win 7 and Vista (and often, still, XP) incompatible.
Although Microsoft are moving toward "Dot Net" as a platform rather than "Windows" I still don't think they will break backwards compatibility with old versions of Windows. I do think we'll see multiple versions though.
WP8 - ARM/x86. All applications written to Silverlight/XNA.
WT8/ARM - Metro UI. Only supports Silverlight/XNA via Marketplace (although Office will have to be ARM native). The "consumer" tablet. IMO they should brand it with Xbox, but they won't.
WT8/x86 - Dual UI. Standard Windows and Metro. Legacy as well as Silverlight/XNA support. Dock-able. The "business" tablet.
W8 - Standard Windows UI. Legacy as well as Silverlight/XNA support.
Xbox Next - I don't know, although support for Silverlight and the Marketplace was rumored.
Car/Sync - I don't know.
Each Windows login will also be attached to a Windows Live account. I won't go as far as saying a Windows Live account will be a requirement to login to Windows, but I do think W8 variants will be severely limited without one. The Windows Live account will be used to sync user data, media, apps and purchases across all platforms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics
One possible approach might be to mostly virtualize Win 7 and Vista in ways that lets older programs operate mostly in a sandbox - on the level of Win 8 only (not Win Tab 8 or Win Phone 8).
Maybe, but maybe not. Although it's possible I just can't see Microsoft breaking legacy support. Certainly not on the desktop variant of Windows 8.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if we never see an ARM version of "desktop" Windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics
Finally, it also means partially rearchitecting all of their own own PC and Server programs over a relatively short period. And they gotta lotta programs.
This one is tricky.
On one hand... again I can't see Microsoft breaking legacy support with Windows Server (2012?). Even if it meant losing their entire consumer business it wouldn't be worth pissing off their enterprise customers.
On the other hand... with Office 365 and Azure you can see Microsoft are shifting Windows Server and everything it supports to the cloud, so maybe the hardware architecture or OS won't matter so much to business.
The dumbest thing Microsoft ever did? I think it is obvious now: not creating a decent, modern portable operating system. Windows Mobile was unusable and they knew it yet did nothing until iOS and Android forced them to wake up.
This is probably the best answer I've seen, although I think it's far to easy to underestimate the effort involved in getting the Windows code base to that stage.
It's not like Microsoft had thousands of developers sitting on their hands with nothing to do.
The release schedule for W8 is probably quite good for the resources Microsoft have available.
This brings us to the real issue which is wasted man-hours (or rather person-hours ) which can probably mostly be attributed to bad decisions by management.
Vista is probably the key culprit here. It was written, hacked at and re-written again and ended up years overdue. If better decisions were made early in the Vista life-cycle we may have seen a fully modular, mobile supporting Windows 8 in Christmas 2009.
That's just one example. You could also look at Windows Mobile, KIN, or one of a bunch of other time-wasting projects.
What Microsoft should do is QUIT trying to catch up with everyone else and start focusing on something new and different like they did 20 years ago. That's the only chance they have of ever being as good as they once were.
At least that's the opinion of a 25 year Microsoft developer
Microsoft hardly ever produced something themselves. The original MS-Basic was the product that started MS, but for the rest, most of it was boughth. MS-DOS was bought from SCP, DOS-emulation in Windows NT was bought, IE was bought. Kinect was bought. Word/Excel was bought (I think). Windows NT (2000, XP) was built, Windows 1-3 was insipired by Apple but built by Microsoft (and having once developed for it: the API is a disaster zone). OS/2 was built (together with IBM).
I don't know how much on the enterprise side (Exchange, Outlook, SharePoint was built and not bought).
None of their built products were ever particularly good. Gates in his Microsoft years never was a great engineer (given for instance how little he understood of the limits of AI and how many billions were wasted in that direction), but he was a great strategist (read his book "The Road Ahead" which is very interesting when it talks about "the road travelled")
I think, also, you meant 30 years (MS-Basic) and not 20 years.
Jobs did something new 30 years ago (NeXT) and the results (iOS, OS X) are a foundation for their success (industrial design is another one)
The good news is we don't have to hear about any laughable "iPod killers" anymore. Now we're going to have to hear about a whole bunch of laughable "iPad killers", for a while to come.
Microsoft hardly ever produced something themselves. The original MS-Basic was the product that started MS, but for the rest, most of it was bought
Perhaps. Off the top of my head i would say a handful of products were totally purchased, some were originally spawned from a purchased product and developed, some incorporate purchased components and others were totally developed in house.
I think there is a lot of effort involved in taking some raw components and making it into a successful product (like Kinect or the MacBook Air)
iTunes was spawned from SoundJam but looking at iTunes now I would say it is an Apple creation, even though it was originally started by another company.
It's sad as I've wanted one for a while, but they never came to the UK. But they were never going to beat Apple, it didn't matter how much better than the iPod they made it, people would still buy iPods. People know they want an iPod even before they know what they look like or anything other than the fact it plays music and that's hard to compete with.
Another underlying reason though could be more to do with Windows Phone 7. Any new version would need to be updated to support WP7 apps, but they could start to cause issues with the mobile manufacturers who were previously unhappy with Google releasing their own phone. Who knows maybe we could see a return of Zune but as a software platform for other hardware vendors like WP7.
The cut off text drives me nuts. I hate that, and I'm glad it's off the market. Such horrible gui design.
Sheldon
I agree!!
All the positive press about the Zune HD when it came out got me to go to the store and try one. I thought it was an incredibly horrible piece of junk, largely because of that stupid cut off text business. I've never understood how anybody can like those silly things.
Would have to study it deeply to fully digest, but first need to make sure my 'foundation of understanding' is firm ...
Microsoft was stuck with DOS for years. Was ok as calculator/adding machine, but that's about it, and would always be limited cause it was based on algebra x/y axis, not the geometry/vectors needed for Graphics. Then they tried to invent a new code with NT, but didn't work, and been trying/re-trying ever since in hopes of moving into the 21st Century.
But OSX/Unix/et al ... are taking over the World with their 'simplicity and elegance', plus are 'open' and designed for the 'Net - so will always have that added advantage.
And unless Microsoft succeeds in writing that 'New Code' ? Then eventually they will become an Historical Oddity like Roman Numerals are to Hindu/Arabic Base 10.
That fairly accurate in 'poetic terms' ?
.
B - to all you AppInsider Snarky Wannabes
Yea, yea ... some pretty good Zune Jokes, but from few years back - The Best?
Comments
That stupid paper clip they put in word trumps all.
The paperclip is the ultimate.
Followed by Windows ME? I dunno...
I never have seen a Zune in the wild. I have seen them in stores, but never in the hands of a consumer.
Same here, although I did see some girls at a Target store once weighing the benefits of iPod vs. Zune and they settled on Zune. I shed a tear for them now.
http://labnol.blogspot.com/2007/05/i...-get-zune.html
Do you think those employees will be allowed their iPods back now?
Of all the dumbass things Microsoft have done over the years, I would vote releasing a Zune in brown as the second dumbest thing.
The dumbest obviously is Balmer being appointed CEO.
What do you think second dumbest is?
The dumbest thing Microsoft ever did? I think it is obvious now: not creating a decent, modern portable operating system. Windows Mobile was unusable and they knew it yet did nothing until iOS and Android forced them to wake up.
So in many ways IMO the code will to be a fairly large break that's at least likely to make at least a big hunk of software and maybe all drivers that currently work on Win 7 and Vista (and often, still, XP) incompatible.
Although Microsoft are moving toward "Dot Net" as a platform rather than "Windows" I still don't think they will break backwards compatibility with old versions of Windows. I do think we'll see multiple versions though.
- WP8 - ARM/x86. All applications written to Silverlight/XNA.
- WT8/ARM - Metro UI. Only supports Silverlight/XNA via Marketplace (although Office will have to be ARM native). The "consumer" tablet. IMO they should brand it with Xbox, but they won't.
- WT8/x86 - Dual UI. Standard Windows and Metro. Legacy as well as Silverlight/XNA support. Dock-able. The "business" tablet.
- W8 - Standard Windows UI. Legacy as well as Silverlight/XNA support.
- Xbox Next - I don't know, although support for Silverlight and the Marketplace was rumored.
- Car/Sync - I don't know.
Each Windows login will also be attached to a Windows Live account. I won't go as far as saying a Windows Live account will be a requirement to login to Windows, but I do think W8 variants will be severely limited without one. The Windows Live account will be used to sync user data, media, apps and purchases across all platforms.One possible approach might be to mostly virtualize Win 7 and Vista in ways that lets older programs operate mostly in a sandbox - on the level of Win 8 only (not Win Tab 8 or Win Phone 8).
Maybe, but maybe not. Although it's possible I just can't see Microsoft breaking legacy support. Certainly not on the desktop variant of Windows 8.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if we never see an ARM version of "desktop" Windows.
Finally, it also means partially rearchitecting all of their own own PC and Server programs over a relatively short period. And they gotta lotta programs.
This one is tricky.
On one hand... again I can't see Microsoft breaking legacy support with Windows Server (2012?). Even if it meant losing their entire consumer business it wouldn't be worth pissing off their enterprise customers.
On the other hand... with Office 365 and Azure you can see Microsoft are shifting Windows Server and everything it supports to the cloud, so maybe the hardware architecture or OS won't matter so much to business.
The dumbest thing Microsoft ever did? I think it is obvious now: not creating a decent, modern portable operating system. Windows Mobile was unusable and they knew it yet did nothing until iOS and Android forced them to wake up.
This is probably the best answer I've seen, although I think it's far to easy to underestimate the effort involved in getting the Windows code base to that stage.
It's not like Microsoft had thousands of developers sitting on their hands with nothing to do.
The release schedule for W8 is probably quite good for the resources Microsoft have available.
This brings us to the real issue which is wasted man-hours (or rather person-hours
Vista is probably the key culprit here. It was written, hacked at and re-written again and ended up years overdue. If better decisions were made early in the Vista life-cycle we may have seen a fully modular, mobile supporting Windows 8 in Christmas 2009.
That's just one example. You could also look at Windows Mobile, KIN, or one of a bunch of other time-wasting projects.
What Microsoft should do is QUIT trying to catch up with everyone else and start focusing on something new and different like they did 20 years ago. That's the only chance they have of ever being as good as they once were.
At least that's the opinion of a 25 year Microsoft developer
Microsoft hardly ever produced something themselves. The original MS-Basic was the product that started MS, but for the rest, most of it was boughth. MS-DOS was bought from SCP, DOS-emulation in Windows NT was bought, IE was bought. Kinect was bought. Word/Excel was bought (I think). Windows NT (2000, XP) was built, Windows 1-3 was insipired by Apple but built by Microsoft (and having once developed for it: the API is a disaster zone). OS/2 was built (together with IBM).
I don't know how much on the enterprise side (Exchange, Outlook, SharePoint was built and not bought).
None of their built products were ever particularly good. Gates in his Microsoft years never was a great engineer (given for instance how little he understood of the limits of AI and how many billions were wasted in that direction), but he was a great strategist (read his book "The Road Ahead" which is very interesting when it talks about "the road travelled")
I think, also, you meant 30 years (MS-Basic) and not 20 years.
Jobs did something new 30 years ago (NeXT) and the results (iOS, OS X) are a foundation for their success (industrial design is another one)
Then go buy a Zune. I'm sure there's few left for cheap.
Thanks, I have two.
Microsoft hardly ever produced something themselves. The original MS-Basic was the product that started MS, but for the rest, most of it was bought
Perhaps. Off the top of my head i would say a handful of products were totally purchased, some were originally spawned from a purchased product and developed, some incorporate purchased components and others were totally developed in house.
I think there is a lot of effort involved in taking some raw components and making it into a successful product (like Kinect or the MacBook Air)
iTunes was spawned from SoundJam but looking at iTunes now I would say it is an Apple creation, even though it was originally started by another company.
Of all the dumbass things Microsoft have done over the years, I would vote releasing a Zune in brown as the second dumbest thing.
The dumbest obviously is Balmer being appointed CEO.
What do you think second dumbest is?
Windows ME, without doubt
Another underlying reason though could be more to do with Windows Phone 7. Any new version would need to be updated to support WP7 apps, but they could start to cause issues with the mobile manufacturers who were previously unhappy with Google releasing their own phone. Who knows maybe we could see a return of Zune but as a software platform for other hardware vendors like WP7.
Thanks, I have two.
I'm sorry.
The cut off text drives me nuts. I hate that, and I'm glad it's off the market. Such horrible gui design.
Sheldon
I agree!!
All the positive press about the Zune HD when it came out got me to go to the store and try one. I thought it was an incredibly horrible piece of junk, largely because of that stupid cut off text business. I've never understood how anybody can like those silly things.
Apparently not many people did.
1 - Good Thread by 'bigpics' et al ... ty
Would have to study it deeply to fully digest, but first need to make sure my 'foundation of understanding' is firm ...
Microsoft was stuck with DOS for years. Was ok as calculator/adding machine, but that's about it, and would always be limited cause it was based on algebra x/y axis, not the geometry/vectors needed for Graphics. Then they tried to invent a new code with NT, but didn't work, and been trying/re-trying ever since in hopes of moving into the 21st Century.
But OSX/Unix/et al ... are taking over the World with their 'simplicity and elegance', plus are 'open' and designed for the 'Net - so will always have that added advantage.
And unless Microsoft succeeds in writing that 'New Code' ? Then eventually they will become an Historical Oddity like Roman Numerals are to Hindu/Arabic Base 10.
That fairly accurate in 'poetic terms' ?
.
B - to all you AppInsider Snarky Wannabes
Yea, yea ... some pretty good Zune Jokes, but from few years back - The Best?
Craig Ferguson - you know, The Scottish Conan Guy
He gave a simple reason why it failed
"The Zune Zucked"
.
.
Lol now that's the dumbest suggestion ever. MSFT gave apple money because it didn't want to be broken up.
Actually MSFT been broken up could have turned out to be a blessing in disguise. It would have allowed the pieces to be more nimble with what they do.
Finally. It seems like it has been around forever, like the blind man with both his legs chopped off begging on your street corner.
Actually, it was more like this...