MS is doomed from the start in the marketing area wrt the younger generation, which looks at microsoft as older people look to IBM: an overbloated "not-cool" mega corporation that only survives by parasiting the whole industry with its own intelectual property portfolio, filled with terrible wretched software. Young kids perceive MS like this, and they perceive Apple as "cool", "sexy" and "stylish".
It's a lost battle right from the start. Apple will dominate this decade.
Very interesting and apt observation. I just worry that in 10-15 years, the next generation will think of Apple as overbloated and uncool.
One other thought: For as long as I can remember Apple packed an Apple decal with every device - I just got an ATV and right there was an Apple decal! Now *that's* cool to this old fart!
However, it completely failed to do so, for reasons detailed at the time by AppleInsider.
That is utter and complete BS, none of your reasons you detailed or 5 myths about the Zune HD were the reasons why the Zune HD didn't take off, the only one you could claim that could be a reason was the myth 5 in not having enough games at launch.
I would argue that the primary reason why the Zune HD didn't take off is because of a lack of advertisement along with brand loyalty to apple's iPod.
How many advertisements did you see or hear for the Zune player? Practically none, the only one I can remember ever seeing anywhere was on TV was them advertising their Zune pass with that certified financial planner.
The simple truth of the matter is pretty much the masses had never ever heard of the Zune player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisDias
You forget that people don't want to pay a monthly fee for music, they just want a music player, and a store of songs where they can buy their own with no strings attached.
If you honestly believe that the only way people could purchase music on the Zune marketplace is through their subscription service then you are an idiot. The Zune Pass was one way to purchase music, you could purchase music individually with no strings attached but if you wanted to do a subscription model that would give you unlimited access to all 10+ million songs whenever you wanted to you then subscribe to the Zune Pass.
I would argue that the primary reason why the Zune HD didn't take off is because of a lack of advertisement
.
.
.
The simple truth of the matter is pretty much the masses had never ever heard of the Zune player.
.
.
.
If you honestly believe that the only way people could purchase music on the Zune marketplace is through their subscription service then you are an idiot.
There is a difference between being an idiot and being ignorant or naive.
You've stated yourself that the mainstream didn't know about Zune because of the lack of advertising on Microsoft's behalf, so it's a bit harsh to claim this guy is an idiot simply because he didn't understand Zune's purchase/subscription model.
There is a difference between being an idiot and being ignorant or naive.
You've stated yourself that the mainstream didn't know about Zune because of the lack of advertising on Microsoft's behalf, so it's a bit harsh to claim this guy is an idiot simply because he didn't understand Zune's purchase/subscription model.
Ya there is a difference technically but when it comes to slang I would say there isn't a difference between those three words. To be honest I don't really care if you think it is harsh, this is AI, the comments are always harsh.
...Silverlight (i.e. potentially the W8 App Store) running on the Xbox.
W8 - now perhaps I'm the last one to get the joke but it's still funny! W8 until 2011 and W8 until 2012 and W8 until 2013! And with all that legacy and backward compatibility code bloating Windoze, that's hefting a big W8 around as well. Gotta love it!
1..1. The notion of "squirting" songs was just too gross to imagine. It's like Ballmer had these ideas while sitting in Booth 12 at Fantasy Unlimited Adult Bookstore in Seattle.
2. Clippy the paperclip (picture Bill Gates scratching the inside of his ear with a semi-unbent paper clip and you get the idea)
W8 - now perhaps I'm the last one to get the joke but it's still funny! W8 until 2011 and W8 until 2012 and W8 until 2013! And with all that legacy and backward compatibility code bloating Windoze, that's hefting a big W8 around as well. Gotta love it!
You've been around SMS speak way too long... (I do get it now that you point it out however)!
Job listings have already popped up for Xbox Next which means perhaps a Christmas 2012 or 2013 release.
If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised if it did end up "Windowized" and running x86 or ARM (a custom Tegra SoC perhaps?)
I also remember a project to get Silverlight (i.e. potentially the W8 App Store) running on the Xbox.
For tablets yes, for mobile...
Windows Mobile ran a custom designed mobile OS and it was still pretty crap. I think persisting with a poorly supported, bastardized, spaghetti coded OS (i.e. as opposed to a modular OS like W7/W8 or OSX) and trying to cram a Windows-like UI onto a phone screen added to the poor Windows Mobile performance (among other factors).
That's what I'm hearing as well
Almost certainly.
The concept of a "marketplace" for Windows 8 was leaked about 12 months ago.
There is a current project to improved Zune media integration across MS devices.
There is a current project to bring cable TV across all MS devices.
Windows Live will be baked into the W8 core, which means when you sign into a Windows PC (or phone, tablet, car or Xbox) you get access to your account and data, sync'd or stream
I think it will be relevant to business. With Office 365 and Azure it's really looking like Microsoft will successfully extend their Server/Windows/Office "stack" to the cloud. Microsoft won't maintain their monopoly in the enterprise sector as Google and Apple continue to chip away at them, but they will continue to be a dominant force.
By 2012 they may have lost the consumer sector though, and I think this is what you may have been referring to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
Although Microsoft are moving toward "Dot Net" as a platform rather than "Windows" I still don't think they will break backwards compatibility with old versions of Windows. I do think we'll see multiple versions though.
WP8 - ARM/x86. All applications written to Silverlight/XNA.
WT8/ARM - Metro UI. Only supports Silverlight/XNA via Marketplace (although Office will have to be ARM native). The "consumer" tablet. IMO they should brand it with Xbox, but they won't.
WT8/x86 - Dual UI. Standard Windows and Metro. Legacy as well as Silverlight/XNA support. Dock-able. The "business" tablet.
W8 - Standard Windows UI. Legacy as well as Silverlight/XNA support.
Xbox Next - I don't know, although support for Silverlight and the Marketplace was rumored.
Car/Sync - I don't know.
Each Windows login will also be attached to a Windows Live account. I won't go as far as saying a Windows Live account will be a requirement to login to Windows, but I do think W8 variants will be severely limited without one. The Windows Live account will be used to sync user data, media, apps and purchases across all platforms.
Maybe, but maybe not. Although it's possible I just can't see Microsoft breaking legacy support. Certainly not on the desktop variant of Windows 8.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if we never see an ARM version of "desktop" Windows.
This one is tricky.
On one hand... again I can't see Microsoft breaking legacy support with Windows Server (2012?). Even if it meant losing their entire consumer business it wouldn't be worth pissing off their enterprise customers.
On the other hand... with Office 365 and Azure you can see Microsoft are shifting Windows Server and everything it supports to the cloud, so maybe the hardware architecture or OS won't matter so much to business.
Most informative. For all my daily hours focusing on computing - personal and at large, with an Apple bias - I'm not truly a nuts and bolts geek (my degree's an MSW, e.g., about as far from engineering and programming as an advanced degree can be), I just have a life-long fascination with the industry and its evolution - and within the limits of my technical knowledge, occasionally try to marshal what I've gleaned so I can play one on forums.
And appreciate garnering insights from those who are actually more beneath the hood than I.
That would make a lot more sense if it were directed at Google and the manufacturers using Android. As it is right now, Microsoft isn't doing the lion's share of Apple-copying anymore. I was impressed with how different they made Windows 7 Phone when they could have taken the Google approach and rip iOS off wholesale.
Actually, it makes A LOT of sense when pointed to Microsoft. The BBC was forced by MS to take down an article when Windows 7 was released because the developers of Win7 had said they were intentionally going for a "Mac Look and Feel".
Actually, it makes A LOT of sense when pointed to Microsoft. The BBC was forced by MS to take down an article when Windows 7 was released because the developers of Win7 had said they were intentionally going for a "Mac Look and Feel".
Most informative. For all my daily hours focusing on computing - personal and at large, with an Apple bias - I'm not truly a nuts and bolts geek (my degree's an MSW, e.g., about as far from engineering and programming as an advanced degree can be), I just have a life-long fascination with the industry and its evolution - and within the limits of my technical knowledge, occasionally try to marshal what I've gleaned so I can play one on forums.
And appreciate garnering insights from those who are actually more beneath the hood than I.
Thanks muchly.
Cheers.
You should skim over Office 365 on Wikipedia and watch this vid on Azure.
This gives a bit of an idea on how things will work behind-the-scenes in the "post PC" era. (I mean generally of course, not that Microsoft will be running everything! There are a number of other companies offering similar solutions).
Everything else was grabbed from a bunch of difference sources with a little bit of speculation added for good measure.
I would argue that the primary reason why the Zune HD didn't take off is because of a lack of advertisement along with brand loyalty to apple's iPod.
How many advertisements did you see or hear for the Zune player? Practically none, the only one I can remember ever seeing anywhere was on TV was them advertising their Zune pass with that certified financial planner.
The simple truth of the matter is pretty much the masses had never ever heard of the Zune player.
I disagree. It's probably a regional thing, where depending on what part of the country you live in you see different ads (or maybe we watch different channels), but I remember seeing a buttload of Zune ads for months after it was first released. They were freaking everywhere.
After it failed to catch on, yes, the ads disappeared. But they sure seemed to want to get the brand name out there at first.
I assume not since this one is still online and MS forced the BBC to remove the one you referenced.
Plus this comment was made by an exec, not a developer... and he wasn't even involved with the development of Windows 7.
It sounds remarkable similar though.
It might have been, but I'm sure the original article before it was taken down said that it was a developers comments on the system. Besides, its not that difficult to see the Mac influence in the system anyway. (the Dock... I mean... Taskbar, being the most obvious).
Even if it wasn't a developer and my memory is quickly deteriorating, the fact that someone within the company specifically said "we were going for a Mac look and feel" does raise incredible questions. First and foremost - why would you say that?
I disagree. It's probably a regional thing, where depending on what part of the country you live in you see different ads (or maybe we watch different channels), but I remember seeing a buttload of Zune ads for months after it was first released. They were freaking everywhere.
After it failed to catch on, yes, the ads disappeared. But they sure seemed to want to get the brand name out there at first.
The ZUNE wasn't even available in Europe. You HAD to import it from America if you wanted one. Its what made me get an iPod in the first place (as I actually rather like the ZUNE's Metro UI which made me consider it at first).
Microsoft has been giving it to us in the brown for years.
>implying apple doesnt rip off and/or abuse its customers with its business practices. (lack of blu ray to keep its failing iTunes video rentals alive, the whole video out functions on iPod and iPads controversy over the years [limiting the resolution and what you can and cannot output], a little thing called DRM)
>implying apple doesnt rip off and/or abuse its customers with its business practices. (lack of blu ray to keep its failing iTunes video rentals alive, the whole video out functions on iPod and iPads controversy over the years [limiting the resolution and what you can and cannot output], a little thing called DRM)
You know, ALL companies do things like that. Their goal after all is to remove money from your wallet any way they can. The difference is Microsoft took those ubiquitous practices and turned them up to eleven. And then abused their monopoly. And put a lot of companies out of business via those abuses. They suck.
Comments
MS is doomed from the start in the marketing area wrt the younger generation, which looks at microsoft as older people look to IBM: an overbloated "not-cool" mega corporation that only survives by parasiting the whole industry with its own intelectual property portfolio, filled with terrible wretched software. Young kids perceive MS like this, and they perceive Apple as "cool", "sexy" and "stylish".
It's a lost battle right from the start. Apple will dominate this decade.
Very interesting and apt observation. I just worry that in 10-15 years, the next generation will think of Apple as overbloated and uncool.
One other thought: For as long as I can remember Apple packed an Apple decal with every device - I just got an ATV and right there was an Apple decal! Now *that's* cool to this old fart!
I liked Zune software much better than iTunes!!!! Please Apple, fix that "user experience"!!!!!
I think your opinion might be in the minority, otherwise Ballmer's BS about Zune being the iPod killer might have actually meant something.
So they need to make a new commerical now along the lines of "Droid Does, but we'd rather it didn't - at least not so much"
However, it completely failed to do so, for reasons detailed at the time by AppleInsider.
That is utter and complete BS, none of your reasons you detailed or 5 myths about the Zune HD were the reasons why the Zune HD didn't take off, the only one you could claim that could be a reason was the myth 5 in not having enough games at launch.
I would argue that the primary reason why the Zune HD didn't take off is because of a lack of advertisement along with brand loyalty to apple's iPod.
How many advertisements did you see or hear for the Zune player? Practically none, the only one I can remember ever seeing anywhere was on TV was them advertising their Zune pass with that certified financial planner.
The simple truth of the matter is pretty much the masses had never ever heard of the Zune player.
You forget that people don't want to pay a monthly fee for music, they just want a music player, and a store of songs where they can buy their own with no strings attached.
If you honestly believe that the only way people could purchase music on the Zune marketplace is through their subscription service then you are an idiot. The Zune Pass was one way to purchase music, you could purchase music individually with no strings attached but if you wanted to do a subscription model that would give you unlimited access to all 10+ million songs whenever you wanted to you then subscribe to the Zune Pass.
I would argue that the primary reason why the Zune HD didn't take off is because of a lack of advertisement
.
.
.
The simple truth of the matter is pretty much the masses had never ever heard of the Zune player.
.
.
.
If you honestly believe that the only way people could purchase music on the Zune marketplace is through their subscription service then you are an idiot.
There is a difference between being an idiot and being ignorant or naive.
You've stated yourself that the mainstream didn't know about Zune because of the lack of advertising on Microsoft's behalf, so it's a bit harsh to claim this guy is an idiot simply because he didn't understand Zune's purchase/subscription model.
There is a difference between being an idiot and being ignorant or naive.
You've stated yourself that the mainstream didn't know about Zune because of the lack of advertising on Microsoft's behalf, so it's a bit harsh to claim this guy is an idiot simply because he didn't understand Zune's purchase/subscription model.
Ya there is a difference technically but when it comes to slang I would say there isn't a difference between those three words. To be honest I don't really care if you think it is harsh, this is AI, the comments are always harsh.
Like I said, it's cinch up the belt time up in Oregon.
What's Oregon got to do with it?
...Silverlight (i.e. potentially the W8 App Store) running on the Xbox.
W8 - now perhaps I'm the last one to get the joke but it's still funny! W8 until 2011 and W8 until 2012 and W8 until 2013! And with all that legacy and backward compatibility code bloating Windoze, that's hefting a big W8 around as well. Gotta love it!
1. The "squircle" on the Zune
1..1. The notion of "squirting" songs was just too gross to imagine. It's like Ballmer had these ideas while sitting in Booth 12 at Fantasy Unlimited Adult Bookstore in Seattle.
2. Clippy the paperclip (picture Bill Gates scratching the inside of his ear with a semi-unbent paper clip and you get the idea)
W8 - now perhaps I'm the last one to get the joke but it's still funny! W8 until 2011 and W8 until 2012 and W8 until 2013! And with all that legacy and backward compatibility code bloating Windoze, that's hefting a big W8 around as well. Gotta love it!
You've been around SMS speak way too long... (I do get it now that you point it out however)!
What's Oregon got to do with it?
Oopsie. WA of course.
My bad.....
If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised if it did end up "Windowized" and running x86 or ARM (a custom Tegra SoC perhaps?)
I also remember a project to get Silverlight (i.e. potentially the W8 App Store) running on the Xbox.
Windows Mobile ran a custom designed mobile OS and it was still pretty crap. I think persisting with a poorly supported, bastardized, spaghetti coded OS (i.e. as opposed to a modular OS like W7/W8 or OSX) and trying to cram a Windows-like UI onto a phone screen added to the poor Windows Mobile performance (among other factors).
By 2012 they may have lost the consumer sector though, and I think this is what you may have been referring to.
Although Microsoft are moving toward "Dot Net" as a platform rather than "Windows" I still don't think they will break backwards compatibility with old versions of Windows. I do think we'll see multiple versions though.
- WP8 - ARM/x86. All applications written to Silverlight/XNA.
- WT8/ARM - Metro UI. Only supports Silverlight/XNA via Marketplace (although Office will have to be ARM native). The "consumer" tablet. IMO they should brand it with Xbox, but they won't.
- WT8/x86 - Dual UI. Standard Windows and Metro. Legacy as well as Silverlight/XNA support. Dock-able. The "business" tablet.
- W8 - Standard Windows UI. Legacy as well as Silverlight/XNA support.
- Xbox Next - I don't know, although support for Silverlight and the Marketplace was rumored.
- Car/Sync - I don't know.
Each Windows login will also be attached to a Windows Live account. I won't go as far as saying a Windows Live account will be a requirement to login to Windows, but I do think W8 variants will be severely limited without one. The Windows Live account will be used to sync user data, media, apps and purchases across all platforms.Maybe, but maybe not. Although it's possible I just can't see Microsoft breaking legacy support. Certainly not on the desktop variant of Windows 8.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if we never see an ARM version of "desktop" Windows.
This one is tricky.
On one hand... again I can't see Microsoft breaking legacy support with Windows Server (2012?). Even if it meant losing their entire consumer business it wouldn't be worth pissing off their enterprise customers.
On the other hand... with Office 365 and Azure you can see Microsoft are shifting Windows Server and everything it supports to the cloud, so maybe the hardware architecture or OS won't matter so much to business.
Most informative. For all my daily hours focusing on computing - personal and at large, with an Apple bias - I'm not truly a nuts and bolts geek (my degree's an MSW, e.g., about as far from engineering and programming as an advanced degree can be), I just have a life-long fascination with the industry and its evolution - and within the limits of my technical knowledge, occasionally try to marshal what I've gleaned so I can play one on forums.
And appreciate garnering insights from those who are actually more beneath the hood than I.
Thanks muchly.
That would make a lot more sense if it were directed at Google and the manufacturers using Android. As it is right now, Microsoft isn't doing the lion's share of Apple-copying anymore. I was impressed with how different they made Windows 7 Phone when they could have taken the Google approach and rip iOS off wholesale.
Actually, it makes A LOT of sense when pointed to Microsoft. The BBC was forced by MS to take down an article when Windows 7 was released because the developers of Win7 had said they were intentionally going for a "Mac Look and Feel".
Actually, it makes A LOT of sense when pointed to Microsoft. The BBC was forced by MS to take down an article when Windows 7 was released because the developers of Win7 had said they were intentionally going for a "Mac Look and Feel".
You mean this one?
I assume not since this one is still online and MS forced the BBC to remove the one you referenced.
Plus this comment was made by an exec, not a developer... and he wasn't even involved with the development of Windows 7.
It sounds remarkable similar though.
Most informative. For all my daily hours focusing on computing - personal and at large, with an Apple bias - I'm not truly a nuts and bolts geek (my degree's an MSW, e.g., about as far from engineering and programming as an advanced degree can be), I just have a life-long fascination with the industry and its evolution - and within the limits of my technical knowledge, occasionally try to marshal what I've gleaned so I can play one on forums.
And appreciate garnering insights from those who are actually more beneath the hood than I.
Thanks muchly.
Cheers.
You should skim over Office 365 on Wikipedia and watch this vid on Azure.
This gives a bit of an idea on how things will work behind-the-scenes in the "post PC" era. (I mean generally of course, not that Microsoft will be running everything! There are a number of other companies offering similar solutions).
Everything else was grabbed from a bunch of difference sources with a little bit of speculation added for good measure.
I would argue that the primary reason why the Zune HD didn't take off is because of a lack of advertisement along with brand loyalty to apple's iPod.
How many advertisements did you see or hear for the Zune player? Practically none, the only one I can remember ever seeing anywhere was on TV was them advertising their Zune pass with that certified financial planner.
The simple truth of the matter is pretty much the masses had never ever heard of the Zune player.
I disagree. It's probably a regional thing, where depending on what part of the country you live in you see different ads (or maybe we watch different channels), but I remember seeing a buttload of Zune ads for months after it was first released. They were freaking everywhere.
After it failed to catch on, yes, the ads disappeared. But they sure seemed to want to get the brand name out there at first.
You mean this one?
I assume not since this one is still online and MS forced the BBC to remove the one you referenced.
Plus this comment was made by an exec, not a developer... and he wasn't even involved with the development of Windows 7.
It sounds remarkable similar though.
It might have been, but I'm sure the original article before it was taken down said that it was a developers comments on the system. Besides, its not that difficult to see the Mac influence in the system anyway. (the Dock... I mean... Taskbar, being the most obvious).
Even if it wasn't a developer and my memory is quickly deteriorating, the fact that someone within the company specifically said "we were going for a Mac look and feel" does raise incredible questions. First and foremost - why would you say that?
I disagree. It's probably a regional thing, where depending on what part of the country you live in you see different ads (or maybe we watch different channels), but I remember seeing a buttload of Zune ads for months after it was first released. They were freaking everywhere.
After it failed to catch on, yes, the ads disappeared. But they sure seemed to want to get the brand name out there at first.
The ZUNE wasn't even available in Europe. You HAD to import it from America if you wanted one. Its what made me get an iPod in the first place (as I actually rather like the ZUNE's Metro UI which made me consider it at first).
Microsoft has been giving it to us in the brown for years.
>implying apple doesnt rip off and/or abuse its customers with its business practices. (lack of blu ray to keep its failing iTunes video rentals alive, the whole video out functions on iPod and iPads controversy over the years [limiting the resolution and what you can and cannot output], a little thing called DRM)
>implying apple doesnt rip off and/or abuse its customers with its business practices. (lack of blu ray to keep its failing iTunes video rentals alive, the whole video out functions on iPod and iPads controversy over the years [limiting the resolution and what you can and cannot output], a little thing called DRM)
You know, ALL companies do things like that. Their goal after all is to remove money from your wallet any way they can. The difference is Microsoft took those ubiquitous practices and turned them up to eleven. And then abused their monopoly. And put a lot of companies out of business via those abuses. They suck.