[quote]<strong>I mean, how often did kids shoot their teachers 20 years ago? Huh? Look at the facts. We are in a downward cycle.</strong><hr></blockquote>
How often do kids shoot their teachers now?
Columbine was 3 years ago. A few others around that time and what since?
"Look at the facts."
I have 10 nieces/nephews, I don't buy this "OH GOD THE SKY IS FALLING THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE HOMICIDAL MANIACS!" garbage. And that's what it is; garbage.
Society has ALWAYS been violent. Humans ARE violent.
I think television is crap in general, and I won't encourage my kids to watch much of it, but it's not going to kill them if I'm worth two shits as a parent.
Outsider:
[quote]<strong>Why is parenting so lax now?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What makes you think kids across the nation are allowed to watch it? Don't be a fool, parents are still out there and they still tell their kids what to do.
---
I don't know how old you two are, but you sound like grandpas sitting on a porch playing checkers and talking about how every generation after your own is the Devil's army.
"Oh boy, everything was so good in my day, it's so bad now..."
What makes you think kids across the nation are allowed to watch it? Don't be a fool, parents are still out there and they still tell their kids what to do.
---
I don't know how old you two are, but you sound like grandpas sitting on a porch playing checkers and talking about how every generation after your own is the Devil's army.
"Oh boy, everything was so good in my day, it's so bad now..."
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No f*cking duh. And if you actually paid attention i was arguing the other side; that shows like jackass are not the downfall of society as some think. I was simply commenting on what I perceive as a lack of supervision on parents part in modern days.
Maybe it's not so much a lax attitude but there are more single parent families then before and families where both partners have full time jobs. For a Rated R movie there sure were quite a few 13-15 year olds. I did see a few parents there with their kids.
What makes you think kids across the nation are allowed to watch it? Don't be a fool, parents are still out there and they still tell their kids what to do.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
From all the kids imitating what they see on Jackass or Wrestling and getting seriously injured or even killed in the process, I'd say they are watching it. I hear kids talking about it every day. In fact, some kids near where I live burned their house down (killing themselves and the younger children inside sleeping) because they were smoking pot and playing with fire. They were often seen imatating things from Jackass. Naturally, no parents at home to supervise them.
[quote]<strong>
How often do kids shoot their teachers now?
Columbine was 3 years ago. A few others around that time and what since?
<hr></blockquote></strong>
Uh, it just happened yesterday in Arizona. A kid did not show up for exams and was not allowed to retake them so he killed his teachers and then himself. It happens more often than you think. Often if goes unreported out of state unless its a massacre. In this case it managed to get a short blurb on the news.
[quote]<strong>
I have 10 nieces/nephews, I don't buy this "OH GOD THE SKY IS FALLING THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE HOMICIDAL MANIACS!" garbage. And that's what it is; garbage.
<hr></blockquote></strong>
They can if left unsupervised. You can't just plop a six year old kid in front of the TV wacthing Jackass, Wrestling, Jerry Springer, etc. and expect them to develop normally. There was a woman who watched soaps every day with her (I think 3 or 4 year old daughter) and the daughter kept trying to give the mother "passionate" kisses. It turns out that she learned this behavior from the soaps she saw on TV. The TV is not a babysitter. It is not a replacement for a teacher or a parent!
It's really quite simple and not too much to ask of a parent:
Teach your kids right from wrong. Monitor what they watch on TV and the video games they play the best you can. Do stuff with them. Be active in their lives.
Is that too much to ask? I don't think so.
It wouldn't hurt to write to these TV executives and tell them to stop selling their souls for ratings either.
People looking to media to lay blame, or craft solutions, are probably looking in the wrong place. A more disciplined/respectful media might make a small difference, maybe... but most likely, nothing noticeable.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
It's the media that is pushing violence down our throats. Ignore the news and look at the shows that are on TV these days. When I was a kid I could turn on the TV, even in primetime, and be relitively safe even if unsupervised. That is not the case today. Turn on the TV, even right after school, and look at the garbage that's on. It's bad news. Even if real world violence has not increased (I find this very hard to believe, especially during this past decade) imagined violence certainly has. Imagined violence will lead to real world violence. It is a vicious cycle. The media doesn't give a damn about you or your children. It's all about ratings. The news media doesn't even care about giving away military secrets or sensitive crime scene information. If that isn't a sign that things have spun out of control I don't know what is.
[quote]Why not? You do the same thing when talking about people who use PCs.<hr></blockquote>
Uh I use a PC not a Mac, so I dont see where this is going.
[quote]That is quite possibly the most insane thinking I have ever heard. You think a violent act like murder is no longer a sin because it happens more often? You consider it progress? Scary.<hr></blockquote>
Okay maybe I should explained further. What I ment was actions that where once considered obscene and as destructive to society, are now considered overday occurance and we really dont think of them that much. I certainly did not meen actual violent crimes such as murder. But actions that we perform every day. Our language has changed from from the 1950's to present day, it is now harsher. But we certainly dont really notice as it has been a natural progression.
In the 1950 (i guess im using these years as a benchmark) wiggling your hips while dancing was going to ruin the country. Now people regurlaly freak dance and nobody bats an eye. Its been a progression, we are constantly pushing the 'limits' of what is acceptable and considered the norm.
Im dismayed that you would think I was refering to murder.
Okay maybe I should explained further. What I ment was actions that where once considered obscene and as destructive to society, are now considered overday occurance and we really dont think of them that much. I certainly did not meen actual violent crimes such as murder. But actions that we perform every day. Our language has changed from from the 1950's to present day, it is now harsher. But we certainly dont really notice as it has been a natural progression.
In the 1950 (i guess im using these years as a benchmark) wiggling your hips while dancing was going to ruin the country. Now people regurlaly freak dance and nobody bats an eye. Its been a progression, we are constantly pushing the 'limits' of what is acceptable and considered the norm.
<hr></blockquote>
And that's what is scary...that things are slowly being "accepted" and considered "normal". Eventually, shit that was on Jackass will be considered "normal" and the next extreme will be what?
While JackAss the movie had some funny moments, I found it to be largly stupid. Whomever said "well..at 15 or 16 years old, didn't you do stupid things?" or something like that back on page 1...that's exactly my point...these guys on there are way older than that physically, but I guess emotionally/mentally they are 15-16 year olds.
Comments
[quote]<strong>I mean, how often did kids shoot their teachers 20 years ago? Huh? Look at the facts. We are in a downward cycle.</strong><hr></blockquote>
How often do kids shoot their teachers now?
Columbine was 3 years ago. A few others around that time and what since?
"Look at the facts."
I have 10 nieces/nephews, I don't buy this "OH GOD THE SKY IS FALLING THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE HOMICIDAL MANIACS!" garbage. And that's what it is; garbage.
Society has ALWAYS been violent. Humans ARE violent.
I think television is crap in general, and I won't encourage my kids to watch much of it, but it's not going to kill them if I'm worth two shits as a parent.
Outsider:
[quote]<strong>Why is parenting so lax now?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What makes you think kids across the nation are allowed to watch it? Don't be a fool, parents are still out there and they still tell their kids what to do.
---
I don't know how old you two are, but you sound like grandpas sitting on a porch playing checkers and talking about how every generation after your own is the Devil's army.
"Oh boy, everything was so good in my day, it's so bad now..."
Where the hell is pscates?
<strong>
What makes you think kids across the nation are allowed to watch it? Don't be a fool, parents are still out there and they still tell their kids what to do.
---
I don't know how old you two are, but you sound like grandpas sitting on a porch playing checkers and talking about how every generation after your own is the Devil's army.
"Oh boy, everything was so good in my day, it's so bad now..."
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No f*cking duh. And if you actually paid attention i was arguing the other side; that shows like jackass are not the downfall of society as some think. I was simply commenting on what I perceive as a lack of supervision on parents part in modern days.
Maybe it's not so much a lax attitude but there are more single parent families then before and families where both partners have full time jobs. For a Rated R movie there sure were quite a few 13-15 year olds. I did see a few parents there with their kids.
(we can't all keep the peace)
I thought it was very funny indeed. So?
<strong>
What makes you think kids across the nation are allowed to watch it? Don't be a fool, parents are still out there and they still tell their kids what to do.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
From all the kids imitating what they see on Jackass or Wrestling and getting seriously injured or even killed in the process, I'd say they are watching it. I hear kids talking about it every day. In fact, some kids near where I live burned their house down (killing themselves and the younger children inside sleeping) because they were smoking pot and playing with fire. They were often seen imatating things from Jackass. Naturally, no parents at home to supervise them.
[quote]<strong>
How often do kids shoot their teachers now?
Columbine was 3 years ago. A few others around that time and what since?
<hr></blockquote></strong>
Uh, it just happened yesterday in Arizona. A kid did not show up for exams and was not allowed to retake them so he killed his teachers and then himself. It happens more often than you think. Often if goes unreported out of state unless its a massacre. In this case it managed to get a short blurb on the news.
[quote]<strong>
I have 10 nieces/nephews, I don't buy this "OH GOD THE SKY IS FALLING THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE HOMICIDAL MANIACS!" garbage. And that's what it is; garbage.
<hr></blockquote></strong>
They can if left unsupervised. You can't just plop a six year old kid in front of the TV wacthing Jackass, Wrestling, Jerry Springer, etc. and expect them to develop normally. There was a woman who watched soaps every day with her (I think 3 or 4 year old daughter) and the daughter kept trying to give the mother "passionate" kisses. It turns out that she learned this behavior from the soaps she saw on TV. The TV is not a babysitter. It is not a replacement for a teacher or a parent!
It's really quite simple and not too much to ask of a parent:
Teach your kids right from wrong. Monitor what they watch on TV and the video games they play the best you can. Do stuff with them. Be active in their lives.
Is that too much to ask? I don't think so.
It wouldn't hurt to write to these TV executives and tell them to stop selling their souls for ratings either.
[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: apple.otaku ]</p>
<strong>
People looking to media to lay blame, or craft solutions, are probably looking in the wrong place. A more disciplined/respectful media might make a small difference, maybe... but most likely, nothing noticeable.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
It's the media that is pushing violence down our throats. Ignore the news and look at the shows that are on TV these days. When I was a kid I could turn on the TV, even in primetime, and be relitively safe even if unsupervised. That is not the case today. Turn on the TV, even right after school, and look at the garbage that's on. It's bad news. Even if real world violence has not increased (I find this very hard to believe, especially during this past decade) imagined violence certainly has. Imagined violence will lead to real world violence. It is a vicious cycle. The media doesn't give a damn about you or your children. It's all about ratings. The news media doesn't even care about giving away military secrets or sensitive crime scene information. If that isn't a sign that things have spun out of control I don't know what is.
Jackass the Movie was f*cking dope!!!!@#
[quote]Why not? You do the same thing when talking about people who use PCs.<hr></blockquote>
Uh I use a PC not a Mac, so I dont see where this is going.
[quote]That is quite possibly the most insane thinking I have ever heard. You think a violent act like murder is no longer a sin because it happens more often? You consider it progress? Scary.<hr></blockquote>
Okay maybe I should explained further. What I ment was actions that where once considered obscene and as destructive to society, are now considered overday occurance and we really dont think of them that much. I certainly did not meen actual violent crimes such as murder. But actions that we perform every day. Our language has changed from from the 1950's to present day, it is now harsher. But we certainly dont really notice as it has been a natural progression.
In the 1950 (i guess im using these years as a benchmark) wiggling your hips while dancing was going to ruin the country. Now people regurlaly freak dance and nobody bats an eye. Its been a progression, we are constantly pushing the 'limits' of what is acceptable and considered the norm.
Im dismayed that you would think I was refering to murder.
Okay maybe I should explained further. What I ment was actions that where once considered obscene and as destructive to society, are now considered overday occurance and we really dont think of them that much. I certainly did not meen actual violent crimes such as murder. But actions that we perform every day. Our language has changed from from the 1950's to present day, it is now harsher. But we certainly dont really notice as it has been a natural progression.
In the 1950 (i guess im using these years as a benchmark) wiggling your hips while dancing was going to ruin the country. Now people regurlaly freak dance and nobody bats an eye. Its been a progression, we are constantly pushing the 'limits' of what is acceptable and considered the norm.
<hr></blockquote>
And that's what is scary...that things are slowly being "accepted" and considered "normal". Eventually, shit that was on Jackass will be considered "normal" and the next extreme will be what?
While JackAss the movie had some funny moments, I found it to be largly stupid. Whomever said "well..at 15 or 16 years old, didn't you do stupid things?" or something like that back on page 1...that's exactly my point...these guys on there are way older than that physically, but I guess emotionally/mentally they are 15-16 year olds.
<strong>
I don't want to turn this into another "Bowling for Columbine" thread...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Funny you should mention <a href="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/831ojymx.asp"; target="_blank">that</a>.