Translation: we're at least distantly aware of the fact that we don't have a viable tablet strategy, so we're hoping the market evolves towards what we do have, instead of us having to move towards the market.
Also, we'll undoubtably be in charge of some indeterminate future where our vague notions of how "people" want to "interact" with "technology" are blissfully free of irritating details like actual shipping product. We seem to have sold a lot Kinects, so god willing everyone will use that. For, um, computing stuff.
Exactly! And just what are we supposed to do between now and the time when the "room" becomes the computer?? That is at least 10 years down the road before it is usable. I love my iPhone but I prefer to use my larger screened iPad for tasks I spend a lot of time on. The iPhone is great when you are on the go but the iPad is my preferred method of computing.
Even Microsoft recognized the importance of the tablet years ago but they didn't execute correctly. Slapping an existing OS onto another form factor wasn't the answer. I'm amazed at how much of a leap ahead Apple has in this space even with everyone clammoring to catch up.
Exactly! And just what are we supposed to do between now and the time when the "room" becomes the computer?? That is at least 10 years down the road before it is usable. I love my iPhone but I prefer to use my larger screened iPad for tasks I spend a lot of time on. The iPhone is great when you are on the go but the iPad is my preferred method of computing.
Even Microsoft recognized the importance of the tablet years ago but they didn't execute correctly. Slapping an existing OS onto another form factor wasn't the answer. I'm amazed at how much of a leap ahead Apple has in this space even with everyone clammoring to catch up.
My guess is that if some kind of gesture based computing actually becomes popular, it won't be MS that brings it to market. If nothing else, they'll hamstring it by insisting on tying it to Windows with some kind of awkward mashup of backwards compatibility and bolted on Kinect style controller.
That's the real problem, IMO: the Windows boat anchor. Nothing important can ever fly free of the legacy installed user base, as in the case of the baffling decision to stick with Windows for their tablets when they appear to have a pretty nice phone OS (finally).
And of course quarantining WP7 on handsets only will help suppress sales. I wonder at what point the complete collapse of a credible answer to what's happening now in the personal computing space will force changes in management? It's dire now, in another year it's going to be pathetic.
Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer later fired back with a different spin on Jobs' analogy: "There may be a reason they call them Mack Trucks," Ballmer said, referring to Apple's Mac line of computers. "But Windows machines are not going to be trucks."
... Mundie believes the successor to the traditional desktop PC is "the room." ...
This is pure futurism, which is to say, pure nonsense.
For the room to be the computer, we need technology that hasn't been invented yet and most likely won't be for hundreds of years, if ever. He's thinking of talking to the room like the holodeck on Star Trek but that just isn't going to be possible any time soon. Not to mention a 300 dpi screen the size of a wall (or all the walls).
That's all Microsoft ever has for "vision."
Crazy, Sci-Fi "wouldn't it be cool" ideas with no plan and no way to implement them. It's certainly all Bill Gates ever had. Jobs is a visionary but he's also a practical man. This guy is just spinning tales.
Ask Ford or Chevy: they spend all that money advertising a product, among all their product lines, that the fewest people buy. (Well, there may be some dismal subcompact that gets outsold by an F-150, but you get the idea.)
Are they insane? No, they like big margins. Trucks have the biggest margins of any consumer class vehicle on the road.
These "post-PC" devices all suffer from thin margins that are only getting thinner as vendor X or vendor Y locks up the supply chain for various otherwise-hard-to-procure components. The easiest place for a Dell to compete and keep its margins somewhat higher than those in the tablet space is in the PC space, where commodification is still possible and profitable.
Microsoft shouldn't whine about the analogy; they should try to build a better truck.
Unless everything I've read is incorrect, the iPhone has very high margins. I'm not sure about the iPad.
wow. you should all take a step back and listen to yourselves.
a guy who works for the baddies posits an alternative future to the one where you all lovingly carry your iPads around for all eternity and he is "mentally handicapped"?
to be honest, his view seems a little more considered than your collective one.
in essence what I'm hearing from all of you is "no, the future will be just like it is now. I'll have an iPad. It rocks because Steve says so, and makes me feel really 'post-PC'."
if history teaches us anything though, it is that the future WON'T be like today. It will be different. Likely in ways that few of us can imagine.
Clearly tablets will play a role in this for a while. Then they will be superceded. Just like every other piece of technology in human history.
The way you all collectively jump down the throat of this guy is pathetically misguided.
If Steve were to come on stage and say we see the iPad as a stopgap until flexible screen tech, or hologram tech (or whatever) reaches the point where we can move to the next form factor, what would your reaction be?
I don't know why these CEOs and directors keep making these kinds of statements that are obviously thinly veiled attempts to hide their own company's ineptitude, lack of vision, and inability to play catch-up. Do they really think anyone is going to believe these statements are anything else?
Hell, even the Kinect, which he bills as some visionary MS product, is actually a four-year-old-late-to-the-game attempt to compete with Wii/Wiimote interaction. Pathetic, dude.
I like the Wii and I agree that Microsoft has fallen on its face on multiple product and technology fronts. But there is nothing pathetic about Kinect. It is simply brilliant. The Wii even does not compare, even if it was launched first. In fact, Kinect is probably the first truly brilliant development ever by Microsoft. It's only fair to give kudos where they are due, if we want to be credible.
What Microsoft execs have been saying about iPads, howvever, is the other side of brilliant.
Didn't MS visionary Bill Gates once say that 512K (or some number like that) was more RAM than anyone would ever need?
One prominent personage or another, at some point early on in these 'fads' histories, declared that the following would fade: MP3 players, the Internet, electricity, and the telephone.
Shows what a square you are! You don't snort 'back' anything... you just 'do'/'snort' a few lines, or 'do' a 'bump'. There now you can sound cool to your co-workers.
Reference: Some really wide eyed hipster told me.
I sincerely doubt that there is anything I can do to make me sound or be cool at this point in time...
If I were a MS stock holder I would be appalled and ask for an overhaul of the entire board. This is just crazy.
We all know MS is scared as hell of the ipad. MS wants bloat to puff help puff up the bottom line. The ipad gets no viruses so we don't need no damn Nortons. There is no blue screen of death, no alt-ctrl-delete nothing.
wow. you should all take a step back and listen to yourselves.
a guy who works for the baddies posits an alternative future to the one where you all lovingly carry your iPads around for all eternity and he is "mentally handicapped"?
to be honest, his view seems a little more considered than your collective one.
in essence what I'm hearing from all of you is "no, the future will be just like it is now. I'll have an iPad. It rocks because Steve says so, and makes me feel really 'post-PC'."
if history teaches us anything though, it is that the future WON'T be like today. It will be different. Likely in ways that few of us can imagine.
Clearly tablets will play a role in this for a while. Then they will be superceded. Just like every other piece of technology in human history.
The way you all collectively jump down the throat of this guy is pathetically misguided.
If Steve were to come on stage and say we see the iPad as a stopgap until flexible screen tech, or hologram tech (or whatever) reaches the point where we can move to the next form factor, what would your reaction be?
What a bizarre take on his remarks and the responses in this thread.
Nobody's claiming the iPad is the final iteration of computing. That's a ludicrous strawman. And the idea that we think this thing that we don't actually think because "Steve told us to" is just garden variety douchebaggery and completely uncalled for.
Now, back on planet Earth, people were responding to a real representative of a real company which has real problems responding to a real shift in technology. Vague musings about the distant future and an alarming willingness to dismiss what is obviously going to be a big part of personal computing for the foreseeable future isn't "considered", it's foolish.
With a sufficiently long frame of reference, anyone could say anything about any technology. "Well, we don't know how to build a cost competitive flat screen, but I reckon they'll be supplanted by holographic projections by and by, so no worries." Does that strike you as considered? Would mocking a spokesperson for a display company who would say something like that strike you as misguided group-think?
I like the Wii and I agree that Microsoft has fallen on its face on multiple product and technology fronts. But there is nothing pathetic about Kinect. It is simply brilliant. The Wii even does not compare, even if it was launched first. In fact, Kinect is probably the first truly brilliant development ever by Microsoft. It's only fair to give kudos where they are due, if we want to be credible.
What Microsoft execs have been saying about iPads, howvever, is the other side of brilliant.
I wasn't saying Kinect isn't a viable product or relatively good at it's form of human-computer interaction. My point was that it isn't as visionary as he billed it. Kinect probably would not have even been on Microsoft's radar had the Wii HCI revolution not happened, ergo, it is Microsoft's very late to the game answer to what Nintendo somewhat "forced" them to do to stay relevant/competitive.
ok, I read all the stories but don't post much and I just have to say this...
Microsoft is only saying this because they don't have a viable competing product. Their jealous of Apples success. They tried tablets for years with little success and Apple comes in here and pulls the rug from underneath them.
Oh wait. Apple did the same thing to Microsoft with their iPhone and now Microsoft is struggling to compete in that area when they used to have a stronghold of that market.
Also, if Microsoft actually believes that the smartphone is where it is all at then MS will be hurting again because Windows Phone 7 is still too limited to even be comparable to a tablet's use or let alone Adroid or iPhone.
Can you imagine trying to use Windows Phone 7 like an iPad or netbook? MS still has a long ways to go. I am not saying they can't do it, I just wish MS would spend more time in actually CARING about PRODUCING and an AWESOME product that people would fall in love with. They could do it IF they WANTED to but they choose to be lazy and only care about SELLING SELLING SELLING while forgetting the most important ingredient to a product which is gradual perfection. I don't mean perfection as in it has to be perfect. I mean as something that is always improved on because of care and concise efforts. It's a gradual thing til' you get it just right - the same way you do it making cookies until you get it perfect.
I compare Microsoft to GM. While Honda and Toyota kept producing more sales GM just didn't care about their cars and just spitted out whatever they could muster together. Honda and Toyota cares about their products which is why they keep selling more of them. You can trace a Corolla or Civic all the way back to the 70's without a lapse period but you sure can't do the same with GM products. They quite and give up and keep trying something new just to SELL something that will SELL without putting any perfection in their product.
ok I am done and please, I am not here to argue with anyone so if you don't agree with me, that's cool, I don't need everyone's approval to make me happy. hehe
And remember when the ipod came out and Ballmer said who the hell would buy that? Yeah, and 5 years later and after watching Apple kick a$$ MS comes out with the Zune. POS.
And what is the big deal about windows 7? It is trash. We have it at my job and my girlfriend has it on her Dell. CRAP!!!
Now, in my house I'm paying out the butt for 12 mbs thru Atlantic broadband. Got my airport express hooked up to the router, my ipad on my lap and the way we go!!!!
Shows what a square you are! You don't snort 'back' anything... you just 'do'/'snort' a few lines, or 'do' a 'bump'. There now you can sound cool to your co-workers.
Comments
Translation: we're at least distantly aware of the fact that we don't have a viable tablet strategy, so we're hoping the market evolves towards what we do have, instead of us having to move towards the market.
Also, we'll undoubtably be in charge of some indeterminate future where our vague notions of how "people" want to "interact" with "technology" are blissfully free of irritating details like actual shipping product. We seem to have sold a lot Kinects, so god willing everyone will use that. For, um, computing stuff.
Exactly! And just what are we supposed to do between now and the time when the "room" becomes the computer?? That is at least 10 years down the road before it is usable. I love my iPhone but I prefer to use my larger screened iPad for tasks I spend a lot of time on. The iPhone is great when you are on the go but the iPad is my preferred method of computing.
Even Microsoft recognized the importance of the tablet years ago but they didn't execute correctly. Slapping an existing OS onto another form factor wasn't the answer. I'm amazed at how much of a leap ahead Apple has in this space even with everyone clammoring to catch up.
Exactly! And just what are we supposed to do between now and the time when the "room" becomes the computer?? That is at least 10 years down the road before it is usable. I love my iPhone but I prefer to use my larger screened iPad for tasks I spend a lot of time on. The iPhone is great when you are on the go but the iPad is my preferred method of computing.
Even Microsoft recognized the importance of the tablet years ago but they didn't execute correctly. Slapping an existing OS onto another form factor wasn't the answer. I'm amazed at how much of a leap ahead Apple has in this space even with everyone clammoring to catch up.
My guess is that if some kind of gesture based computing actually becomes popular, it won't be MS that brings it to market. If nothing else, they'll hamstring it by insisting on tying it to Windows with some kind of awkward mashup of backwards compatibility and bolted on Kinect style controller.
That's the real problem, IMO: the Windows boat anchor. Nothing important can ever fly free of the legacy installed user base, as in the case of the baffling decision to stick with Windows for their tablets when they appear to have a pretty nice phone OS (finally).
And of course quarantining WP7 on handsets only will help suppress sales. I wonder at what point the complete collapse of a credible answer to what's happening now in the personal computing space will force changes in management? It's dire now, in another year it's going to be pathetic.
--- Snappy come-back of the year
... Mundie believes the successor to the traditional desktop PC is "the room." ...
This is pure futurism, which is to say, pure nonsense.
For the room to be the computer, we need technology that hasn't been invented yet and most likely won't be for hundreds of years, if ever. He's thinking of talking to the room like the holodeck on Star Trek but that just isn't going to be possible any time soon. Not to mention a 300 dpi screen the size of a wall (or all the walls).
That's all Microsoft ever has for "vision."
Crazy, Sci-Fi "wouldn't it be cool" ideas with no plan and no way to implement them. It's certainly all Bill Gates ever had. Jobs is a visionary but he's also a practical man. This guy is just spinning tales.
Ask Ford or Chevy: they spend all that money advertising a product, among all their product lines, that the fewest people buy. (Well, there may be some dismal subcompact that gets outsold by an F-150, but you get the idea.)
Are they insane? No, they like big margins. Trucks have the biggest margins of any consumer class vehicle on the road.
These "post-PC" devices all suffer from thin margins that are only getting thinner as vendor X or vendor Y locks up the supply chain for various otherwise-hard-to-procure components. The easiest place for a Dell to compete and keep its margins somewhat higher than those in the tablet space is in the PC space, where commodification is still possible and profitable.
Microsoft shouldn't whine about the analogy; they should try to build a better truck.
Unless everything I've read is incorrect, the iPhone has very high margins. I'm not sure about the iPad.
a guy who works for the baddies posits an alternative future to the one where you all lovingly carry your iPads around for all eternity and he is "mentally handicapped"?
to be honest, his view seems a little more considered than your collective one.
in essence what I'm hearing from all of you is "no, the future will be just like it is now. I'll have an iPad. It rocks because Steve says so, and makes me feel really 'post-PC'."
if history teaches us anything though, it is that the future WON'T be like today. It will be different. Likely in ways that few of us can imagine.
Clearly tablets will play a role in this for a while. Then they will be superceded. Just like every other piece of technology in human history.
The way you all collectively jump down the throat of this guy is pathetically misguided.
If Steve were to come on stage and say we see the iPad as a stopgap until flexible screen tech, or hologram tech (or whatever) reaches the point where we can move to the next form factor, what would your reaction be?
ok wait I can't imagine future with smart-phones but MS may give us a hint without hoping disappearance of tablets.
^ This.
I don't know why these CEOs and directors keep making these kinds of statements that are obviously thinly veiled attempts to hide their own company's ineptitude, lack of vision, and inability to play catch-up. Do they really think anyone is going to believe these statements are anything else?
Hell, even the Kinect, which he bills as some visionary MS product, is actually a four-year-old-late-to-the-game attempt to compete with Wii/Wiimote interaction. Pathetic, dude.
I like the Wii and I agree that Microsoft has fallen on its face on multiple product and technology fronts. But there is nothing pathetic about Kinect. It is simply brilliant. The Wii even does not compare, even if it was launched first. In fact, Kinect is probably the first truly brilliant development ever by Microsoft. It's only fair to give kudos where they are due, if we want to be credible.
What Microsoft execs have been saying about iPads, howvever, is the other side of brilliant.
So pathetic that it's not even funny anymore.
That's not fair. It's STILL funny.
Didn't MS visionary Bill Gates once say that 512K (or some number like that) was more RAM than anyone would ever need?
One prominent personage or another, at some point early on in these 'fads' histories, declared that the following would fade: MP3 players, the Internet, electricity, and the telephone.
I kid thee not. (Hence the links.)
Shows what a square you are! You don't snort 'back' anything... you just 'do'/'snort' a few lines, or 'do' a 'bump'. There now you can sound cool to your co-workers.
Reference: Some really wide eyed hipster told me.
I sincerely doubt that there is anything I can do to make me sound or be cool at this point in time...
I'm now ready to be a consultant for Microsoft...
We all know MS is scared as hell of the ipad. MS wants bloat to puff help puff up the bottom line. The ipad gets no viruses so we don't need no damn Nortons. There is no blue screen of death, no alt-ctrl-delete nothing.
wow. you should all take a step back and listen to yourselves.
Good advice. You should take it.
In a nutshell, Microsoft's stance amounts to this:
I can't reach those grapes, so I'm pretty sure they're sour.
wow. you should all take a step back and listen to yourselves.
a guy who works for the baddies posits an alternative future to the one where you all lovingly carry your iPads around for all eternity and he is "mentally handicapped"?
to be honest, his view seems a little more considered than your collective one.
in essence what I'm hearing from all of you is "no, the future will be just like it is now. I'll have an iPad. It rocks because Steve says so, and makes me feel really 'post-PC'."
if history teaches us anything though, it is that the future WON'T be like today. It will be different. Likely in ways that few of us can imagine.
Clearly tablets will play a role in this for a while. Then they will be superceded. Just like every other piece of technology in human history.
The way you all collectively jump down the throat of this guy is pathetically misguided.
If Steve were to come on stage and say we see the iPad as a stopgap until flexible screen tech, or hologram tech (or whatever) reaches the point where we can move to the next form factor, what would your reaction be?
What a bizarre take on his remarks and the responses in this thread.
Nobody's claiming the iPad is the final iteration of computing. That's a ludicrous strawman. And the idea that we think this thing that we don't actually think because "Steve told us to" is just garden variety douchebaggery and completely uncalled for.
Now, back on planet Earth, people were responding to a real representative of a real company which has real problems responding to a real shift in technology. Vague musings about the distant future and an alarming willingness to dismiss what is obviously going to be a big part of personal computing for the foreseeable future isn't "considered", it's foolish.
With a sufficiently long frame of reference, anyone could say anything about any technology. "Well, we don't know how to build a cost competitive flat screen, but I reckon they'll be supplanted by holographic projections by and by, so no worries." Does that strike you as considered? Would mocking a spokesperson for a display company who would say something like that strike you as misguided group-think?
I like the Wii and I agree that Microsoft has fallen on its face on multiple product and technology fronts. But there is nothing pathetic about Kinect. It is simply brilliant. The Wii even does not compare, even if it was launched first. In fact, Kinect is probably the first truly brilliant development ever by Microsoft. It's only fair to give kudos where they are due, if we want to be credible.
What Microsoft execs have been saying about iPads, howvever, is the other side of brilliant.
I wasn't saying Kinect isn't a viable product or relatively good at it's form of human-computer interaction. My point was that it isn't as visionary as he billed it. Kinect probably would not have even been on Microsoft's radar had the Wii HCI revolution not happened, ergo, it is Microsoft's very late to the game answer to what Nintendo somewhat "forced" them to do to stay relevant/competitive.
I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but what is with the "uncomfortable" part of the post-PC era?
Windows won't be dominant. That's pretty bloody uncomfortable, if you're Microsoft.
ok, I read all the stories but don't post much and I just have to say this...
Microsoft is only saying this because they don't have a viable competing product. Their jealous of Apples success. They tried tablets for years with little success and Apple comes in here and pulls the rug from underneath them.
Oh wait. Apple did the same thing to Microsoft with their iPhone and now Microsoft is struggling to compete in that area when they used to have a stronghold of that market.
Also, if Microsoft actually believes that the smartphone is where it is all at then MS will be hurting again because Windows Phone 7 is still too limited to even be comparable to a tablet's use or let alone Adroid or iPhone.
Can you imagine trying to use Windows Phone 7 like an iPad or netbook? MS still has a long ways to go. I am not saying they can't do it, I just wish MS would spend more time in actually CARING about PRODUCING and an AWESOME product that people would fall in love with. They could do it IF they WANTED to but they choose to be lazy and only care about SELLING SELLING SELLING while forgetting the most important ingredient to a product which is gradual perfection. I don't mean perfection as in it has to be perfect. I mean as something that is always improved on because of care and concise efforts. It's a gradual thing til' you get it just right - the same way you do it making cookies until you get it perfect.
I compare Microsoft to GM. While Honda and Toyota kept producing more sales GM just didn't care about their cars and just spitted out whatever they could muster together. Honda and Toyota cares about their products which is why they keep selling more of them. You can trace a Corolla or Civic all the way back to the 70's without a lapse period but you sure can't do the same with GM products. They quite and give up and keep trying something new just to SELL something that will SELL without putting any perfection in their product.
ok I am done and please, I am not here to argue with anyone so if you don't agree with me, that's cool, I don't need everyone's approval to make me happy. hehe
And remember when the ipod came out and Ballmer said who the hell would buy that? Yeah, and 5 years later and after watching Apple kick a$$ MS comes out with the Zune. POS.
And what is the big deal about windows 7? It is trash. We have it at my job and my girlfriend has it on her Dell. CRAP!!!
Now, in my house I'm paying out the butt for 12 mbs thru Atlantic broadband. Got my airport express hooked up to the router, my ipad on my lap and the way we go!!!!
Sc*** MS. They are going down!!!!!
Shows what a square you are! You don't snort 'back' anything... you just 'do'/'snort' a few lines, or 'do' a 'bump'. There now you can sound cool to your co-workers.
Reference: Some really wide eyed hipster told me.
You're snorting it wrong. -Steve