It is not running in the background for notifications. It uses the iOS push messaging framework, which listens for incoming push notifications. When iOS hears a message coming in, it receives small bits of info about what app it belongs to, a short message, and what to do when the user clicks "view". iOS then displays it on the screen (and updates the app badge and/or plays a noise). When you click "view" it launches Facebook and then Facebook has to check manually to see the update (since iOS was in control of the message, not the actual FB app). Push notifications are never triggered by the app because the app is not running.
Remember when PNS was vilified back in iOS 3.0, 2 years ago. I think every mobile OS has adopted this feature to cut down on resource overhead.
JYou are right about the suspending (in most cases) unless it's assigned to do something: The App is allowed to finish that task then suspend itself or if the task takes too long or the app doesn't suspend itself, iOS will suspend it for it.
The problem is that every time I check my wife's iPhone, she's got 3 dozen apps listed in the FAS ribbon. None of them seem to go away on their own. Or at least there's so many that don't, that I don't notice the ones that do.
The multitasking API's have little to do with FAS listing. Continuing your Skype example. You get to choose how long Skype stays open to receive calls. It can stay open for a short amount of time or stay open indefinitely. That has nothing to do with its being listed in the FAS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
For example if Skype is in the list it can receive calls, so it definitely had to start back up after the power recycle.
The problem is that every time I check my wife's iPhone, she's got 3 dozen apps listed in the FAS ribbon. None of them seem to go away on their own. Or at least there's so many that don't, that I don't notice the ones that do.
Seriously?! What part aren’t you getting? They aren’t going to go away. They are a list of the apps that were last opened. They are listed from left to right in the order you last opened them, which re-accessed apps being placed at the front of the list. It will have every single app you’ve ever opened in the list. LIST LIST LIST, not apps using RAM RAM RAM.
it’s a problem because you’ve made it a problem thinking all these apps are slowing down the device. There is no reason to remove any of these items unless you anal or you have a particular actual running app.
The problem is that every time I check my wife's iPhone, she's got 3 dozen apps listed in the FAS ribbon. None of them seem to go away on their own. Or at least there's so many that don't, that I don't notice the ones that do.
Just because they exist in the FAS ribbon does not mean that they are running.
When you close apps they are either frozen or completely closed and if you're using enough apps are once, frozen apps will be automatically completely closed by iOS (to save memory for active applications).
Now, if iOS removed completely closed apps from the FAS bar, it wouldn't be very fast. You would need to:
1: Open the FAS
2: Scroll to find it
3: Notice it's not there then have to go home and launch it that way.
The FAS holds applications that aren't running anymore so you don't have to do step 3.
I have read the programmer reference where it gives examples and details on how to save your app's state and this what I understand from that documentation. ...
Saving your app's state and FAS saving its state are two different things.
My understanding, which may not be entirely accurate, is that for the FAS state saving to take place, all you have to do is compile your app with FAS support. But, you still need to save your app's state when it's told it's about to be terminated, if you want to be able to reliably restore your state in case the system discards the FAS state info.
When you save your state, it's like information for your app to use for initialization. When FAS saves the state, I believe it's sort of like how UI elements are saved in a nib file, and FAS uses that info to put the app back to the point it was at when it terminated it, like UI elements are loaded from a nib file.
The multitasking API's have little to do with FAS listing. Continuing your Skype example. You get to choose how long Skype stays open to receive calls. It can stay open for a short amount of time or stay open indefinitely. That has nothing to do with its being listed in the FAS.
I think I've seen something similar with the Weather Channel app. It's not running in FAS, but I still see the occasional notification message about severe weather in my area.
I think I've seen something similar with the Weather Channel app. It's not running in FAS, but I still see the occasional notification message about severe weather in my area.
Nothing runs in FAS. it’s a list of all apps in the order you last opened them. Some might still have active processes but they aren’t running in the background because they are listed in FAS.
You’re going to understand this if I have to track you down and beat you with discarded Zunes.
Just because they exist in the FAS ribbon does not mean that they are running.
When you close apps they are either frozen or completely closed and if you're using enough apps are once, frozen apps will be automatically completely closed by iOS (to save memory for active applications).
Now, if iOS removed completely closed apps from the FAS bar, it wouldn't be very fast. You would need to:
1: Open the FAS
2: Scroll to find it
3: Notice it's not there then have to go home and launch it that way.
The FAS holds applications that aren't running anymore so you don't have to do step 3.
First there's nothing fast about FAS. It's more clicks, more swipes, more taps than just launching the application from the desktop. At least in my experience.
Yes, I do understand that apps listed in the FAS are not necessarily running. My response was to a different message that stated that iOS would automatically remove apps from FAS if they weren't running. Not sure under what conditions this is performed. Memory usage? My reply was that I continue to see a large number of non-running apps in the FAS. Why weren't they scavenged? And personally, I don't subscribe to the "just ignore them" meme.
Saving your app's state and FAS saving its state are two different things.
By FAS saving I'm assuming that you mean freezing your application.
Saving your apps state is something that must be manually done by an app when the user quits it. iOS will then freeze your application (this is done with all apps written with the iOS4 sdk). When relaunched, iOS will unfreeze the app IF the memory the app used was not removed.
However, if
the user quits the app from FAS or
the system needs more memory (for itself or another app)
The application's frozen memory will be removed and when you resume an app, the app must manually load the state is saved itself in previously.
FAS is weird because it handles frozen memory, but not the other multitasking APIs. It just gives you the appearance of handling it all because most people do not understand that each type of multitasking is handled differently.
Nothing runs in FAS. it?s a list of all apps in the order you last opened them. Some might still have active processes but they aren?t running in the background because they are listed in FAS.
You?re going to understand this if I have to track you down and beat you with discarded Zunes.
Nothing runs in FAS. it?s a list of all apps in the order you last opened them. Some might still have active processes but they aren?t running in the background because they are listed in FAS.
You?re going to understand this if I have to track you down and beat you with discarded Zunes.
Go find some Zunes, I'm apparently going to need you to apply them. If the FAS is nothing more than a list of the last used apps, then it's just stupid. Why would I care? I only see a purpose if its to manage apps that are actively running in the background - whatever "running" may be defined as. If an app isn't doing anything, it should not be listed in the FAS. I don't understand Apple's reasoning for throwing everything in the FAS. Are programmers deliberately choosing the (for lack of a better term) FAS option when compiling their apps even if they don't actually perform any background functions? So that apps don't save their state and terminate when the user clicks the home button?
My reply was that I continue to see a large number of non-running apps in the FAS. Why weren't they scavenged? And personally, I don't subscribe to the "just ignore them" meme.
Why would they be ?scavenged?? It?s a list of Recent Items. That what it?s for. Why would your Recent Items selectively be edited by the system when the point is to find an app you may not recall the name of and could be located on any of 9 pages and in any number of folders?
Why is this so hard to wrap your head around. It?s not list of background apps!!!!
Go find some Zunes, I'm apparently going to need you to apply them. If the FAS is nothing more than a list of the last used apps, then it's just stupid. Why would I care? I only see a purpose if its to manage apps that are actively running in the background - whatever "running" may be defined as. If an app isn't doing anything, it should not be listed in the FAS. I don't understand Apple's reasoning for throwing everything in the FAS. Are programmers deliberately choosing the (for lack of a better term) FAS option when compiling their apps even if they don't actually perform any background functions? So that apps don't save their state and terminate when the user clicks the home button?
Devs don?t have anything to do with FAS the same way that devs have nothing to do with » Recent Items in Mac OS. It?s a list generated by the system as you access items. In iOS everything is an app, even Phone, so there is no categorizing the list into sections.
If you don?t like FAS then stop using it. It?s that simple. Do you use all the Recent Items lists in Mac OS? Are you up in arms that it keeps a list of items you?ve recently opened? Why or why not?
Why would they be ?scavenged?? It?s a list of Recent Items. That what it?s for. Why would your Recent Items selectively be edited by the system when the point is to find an app you may not recall the name of and could be located on any of 9 pages and in any number of folders?
Why is this so hard to wrap your head around. It?s not list of background apps!!!!
Why the hell would I want or need a list of recently used apps? The FAS is decidedly more than just a list of recently used apps. It's a way of managing apps that deliberately put themselves into the background. If they're not doing anything, they are apparently suspended. I assume the point is that they can be quickly resuscitated with some part of their memory footprint intact. I assume this is the part that's supposed to be faster than just restarting the app from the desktop. Personally, I haven't found any apps that this seems particularly useful, so I find this to be a poor programming choice. If the program doesn't need to run any background process, than it should simply save its own state and terminate itself, instead of putting itself in the background - to be suspended later.
Devs don’t have anything to do with FAS the same way that devs have nothing to do with » Recent Items in Mac OS. It’s a list generated by the system as you access items. In iOS everything is an app, even Phone, so there is no categorizing the list into sections.
If you don’t like FAS then stop using it. It’s that simple. Do you use all the Recent Items lists in Mac OS? Are you up in arms that it keeps a list of items you’ve recently opened? Why or why not?
The recent items in the Apple menu on MacOS X does not consume any memory space. I believe that apps listed in the FAS do still consume some part of memory - unless that memory is later needed for something else. I do see a difference between the two functions you describe. Yes, you're correct in that I can simply ignore the apps listed in the FAS ribbon. But it just seems to ugly that it's like a bug under my skin. I can't stop thinking about how poorly implemented this is.
If you don’t like FAS then stop using it. It’s that simple. Do you use all the Recent Items lists in Mac OS?
Not the same thing. In OS X the app needs to be running for the recent items to be active and those are documents not a list of recent applications. There is more than one situation that puts an app icon in the list on iOS. It is not an either or situation. An app that is in the tray is either running, suspended, finishing a task or not running, as in lost it's memory and state. The tray serves all of those situations not just a list of previously run applications.
Come on! It’s been a year since it’s been introduced. You guys should know that FAS is not a list of running apps.
So basicly, the multitasking bar contains a list of apps that may or may not be running... wow, what a great interface... its nothing short of garbage.
And like it or not those "frozen" apps do make other running apps crash has it happened to me over and over again with multiple apps. The only thing that worked to fixed lots of crashing apps was to kill all the apps in the multitask bar.
Apple really need to sort out the multitasking mess. Currently Android is much better at handling multitasking.
Why the hell would I want or need a list of recently used apps? The FAS is decidedly more than just a list of recently used apps.
Because having thousands of potential apps across your device can be tough for some to remember their location just as you are having trouble understanding what FAS was designed for.
Quote:
It's a way of managing apps that deliberately put themselves into the background. If they're not doing anything, they are apparently suspended. I assume the point is that they can be quickly resuscitated with some part of their memory footprint intact.
It doesn?t matter where you access the app, it?ll pull from that suspend state regardless. You DON?T have to double-tap the Home Button to suspend an app or keep it running in the background. You CAN use Spotlight or the Home Screen to access an app that is still running in the background using one of the various APIs that allow it or from a suspend state.
Quote:
I assume this is the part that's supposed to be faster than just restarting the app from the desktop. Personally, I haven't found any apps that this seems particularly useful, so I find this to be a poor programming choice.
You?ve been saying multiple things. You started off complaining that it?s apps running in the background you have to manually remove. Then you moved on saying you don?t like it, which is perfectly fine. I don?t care for it so I rarely use it. You then stated that a list of recent items should clear itself out (which makes no damn sense). And now your back to complaining that it?s not useful for anyone to have a list of your most recently accessed apps.
Quote:
If the program doesn't need to run any background process, than it should simply save its own state and terminate itself, instead of putting itself in the background - to be suspended later.
I?m trying to think you?re trolling but I?m having a hard time thinking you can not understand what FAS does at this point.
If you don?t need a quick list of your most recent apps then don?t use FAS. It?s that simple.
Comments
It is not running in the background for notifications. It uses the iOS push messaging framework, which listens for incoming push notifications. When iOS hears a message coming in, it receives small bits of info about what app it belongs to, a short message, and what to do when the user clicks "view". iOS then displays it on the screen (and updates the app badge and/or plays a noise). When you click "view" it launches Facebook and then Facebook has to check manually to see the update (since iOS was in control of the message, not the actual FB app). Push notifications are never triggered by the app because the app is not running.
Remember when PNS was vilified back in iOS 3.0, 2 years ago. I think every mobile OS has adopted this feature to cut down on resource overhead.
JYou are right about the suspending (in most cases) unless it's assigned to do something: The App is allowed to finish that task then suspend itself or if the task takes too long or the app doesn't suspend itself, iOS will suspend it for it.
The problem is that every time I check my wife's iPhone, she's got 3 dozen apps listed in the FAS ribbon. None of them seem to go away on their own. Or at least there's so many that don't, that I don't notice the ones that do.
For example if Skype is in the list it can receive calls, so it definitely had to start back up after the power recycle.
The problem is that every time I check my wife's iPhone, she's got 3 dozen apps listed in the FAS ribbon. None of them seem to go away on their own. Or at least there's so many that don't, that I don't notice the ones that do.
Seriously?! What part aren’t you getting? They aren’t going to go away. They are a list of the apps that were last opened. They are listed from left to right in the order you last opened them, which re-accessed apps being placed at the front of the list. It will have every single app you’ve ever opened in the list. LIST LIST LIST, not apps using RAM RAM RAM.
it’s a problem because you’ve made it a problem thinking all these apps are slowing down the device. There is no reason to remove any of these items unless you anal or you have a particular actual running app.
The problem is that every time I check my wife's iPhone, she's got 3 dozen apps listed in the FAS ribbon. None of them seem to go away on their own. Or at least there's so many that don't, that I don't notice the ones that do.
Just because they exist in the FAS ribbon does not mean that they are running.
When you close apps they are either frozen or completely closed and if you're using enough apps are once, frozen apps will be automatically completely closed by iOS (to save memory for active applications).
Now, if iOS removed completely closed apps from the FAS bar, it wouldn't be very fast. You would need to:
1: Open the FAS
2: Scroll to find it
3: Notice it's not there then have to go home and launch it that way.
The FAS holds applications that aren't running anymore so you don't have to do step 3.
I have read the programmer reference where it gives examples and details on how to save your app's state and this what I understand from that documentation. ...
Saving your app's state and FAS saving its state are two different things.
My understanding, which may not be entirely accurate, is that for the FAS state saving to take place, all you have to do is compile your app with FAS support. But, you still need to save your app's state when it's told it's about to be terminated, if you want to be able to reliably restore your state in case the system discards the FAS state info.
When you save your state, it's like information for your app to use for initialization. When FAS saves the state, I believe it's sort of like how UI elements are saved in a nib file, and FAS uses that info to put the app back to the point it was at when it terminated it, like UI elements are loaded from a nib file.
The multitasking API's have little to do with FAS listing. Continuing your Skype example. You get to choose how long Skype stays open to receive calls. It can stay open for a short amount of time or stay open indefinitely. That has nothing to do with its being listed in the FAS.
I think I've seen something similar with the Weather Channel app. It's not running in FAS, but I still see the occasional notification message about severe weather in my area.
I think I've seen something similar with the Weather Channel app. It's not running in FAS, but I still see the occasional notification message about severe weather in my area.
Nothing runs in FAS. it’s a list of all apps in the order you last opened them. Some might still have active processes but they aren’t running in the background because they are listed in FAS.
You’re going to understand this if I have to track you down and beat you with discarded Zunes.
Just because they exist in the FAS ribbon does not mean that they are running.
When you close apps they are either frozen or completely closed and if you're using enough apps are once, frozen apps will be automatically completely closed by iOS (to save memory for active applications).
Now, if iOS removed completely closed apps from the FAS bar, it wouldn't be very fast. You would need to:
1: Open the FAS
2: Scroll to find it
3: Notice it's not there then have to go home and launch it that way.
The FAS holds applications that aren't running anymore so you don't have to do step 3.
First there's nothing fast about FAS. It's more clicks, more swipes, more taps than just launching the application from the desktop. At least in my experience.
Yes, I do understand that apps listed in the FAS are not necessarily running. My response was to a different message that stated that iOS would automatically remove apps from FAS if they weren't running. Not sure under what conditions this is performed. Memory usage? My reply was that I continue to see a large number of non-running apps in the FAS. Why weren't they scavenged? And personally, I don't subscribe to the "just ignore them" meme.
Saving your app's state and FAS saving its state are two different things.
By FAS saving I'm assuming that you mean freezing your application.
Saving your apps state is something that must be manually done by an app when the user quits it. iOS will then freeze your application (this is done with all apps written with the iOS4 sdk). When relaunched, iOS will unfreeze the app IF the memory the app used was not removed.
However, if
- the user quits the app from FAS or
- the system needs more memory (for itself or another app)
The application's frozen memory will be removed and when you resume an app, the app must manually load the state is saved itself in previously.FAS is weird because it handles frozen memory, but not the other multitasking APIs. It just gives you the appearance of handling it all because most people do not understand that each type of multitasking is handled differently.
Nothing runs in FAS. it?s a list of all apps in the order you last opened them. Some might still have active processes but they aren?t running in the background because they are listed in FAS.
You?re going to understand this if I have to track you down and beat you with discarded Zunes.
Apple Documentation
Nothing runs in FAS. it?s a list of all apps in the order you last opened them. Some might still have active processes but they aren?t running in the background because they are listed in FAS.
You?re going to understand this if I have to track you down and beat you with discarded Zunes.
Go find some Zunes, I'm apparently going to need you to apply them. If the FAS is nothing more than a list of the last used apps, then it's just stupid. Why would I care? I only see a purpose if its to manage apps that are actively running in the background - whatever "running" may be defined as. If an app isn't doing anything, it should not be listed in the FAS. I don't understand Apple's reasoning for throwing everything in the FAS. Are programmers deliberately choosing the (for lack of a better term) FAS option when compiling their apps even if they don't actually perform any background functions? So that apps don't save their state and terminate when the user clicks the home button?
My reply was that I continue to see a large number of non-running apps in the FAS. Why weren't they scavenged? And personally, I don't subscribe to the "just ignore them" meme.
Why would they be ?scavenged?? It?s a list of Recent Items. That what it?s for. Why would your Recent Items selectively be edited by the system when the point is to find an app you may not recall the name of and could be located on any of 9 pages and in any number of folders?
Why is this so hard to wrap your head around. It?s not list of background apps!!!!
Apple Documentation
Yeah, not about FAS.
Go find some Zunes, I'm apparently going to need you to apply them. If the FAS is nothing more than a list of the last used apps, then it's just stupid. Why would I care? I only see a purpose if its to manage apps that are actively running in the background - whatever "running" may be defined as. If an app isn't doing anything, it should not be listed in the FAS. I don't understand Apple's reasoning for throwing everything in the FAS. Are programmers deliberately choosing the (for lack of a better term) FAS option when compiling their apps even if they don't actually perform any background functions? So that apps don't save their state and terminate when the user clicks the home button?
Devs don?t have anything to do with FAS the same way that devs have nothing to do with » Recent Items in Mac OS. It?s a list generated by the system as you access items. In iOS everything is an app, even Phone, so there is no categorizing the list into sections.
If you don?t like FAS then stop using it. It?s that simple. Do you use all the Recent Items lists in Mac OS? Are you up in arms that it keeps a list of items you?ve recently opened? Why or why not?
Why would they be ?scavenged?? It?s a list of Recent Items. That what it?s for. Why would your Recent Items selectively be edited by the system when the point is to find an app you may not recall the name of and could be located on any of 9 pages and in any number of folders?
Why is this so hard to wrap your head around. It?s not list of background apps!!!!
Why the hell would I want or need a list of recently used apps? The FAS is decidedly more than just a list of recently used apps. It's a way of managing apps that deliberately put themselves into the background. If they're not doing anything, they are apparently suspended. I assume the point is that they can be quickly resuscitated with some part of their memory footprint intact. I assume this is the part that's supposed to be faster than just restarting the app from the desktop. Personally, I haven't found any apps that this seems particularly useful, so I find this to be a poor programming choice. If the program doesn't need to run any background process, than it should simply save its own state and terminate itself, instead of putting itself in the background - to be suspended later.
Yeah, not about FAS.
Devs don’t have anything to do with FAS the same way that devs have nothing to do with » Recent Items in Mac OS. It’s a list generated by the system as you access items. In iOS everything is an app, even Phone, so there is no categorizing the list into sections.
If you don’t like FAS then stop using it. It’s that simple. Do you use all the Recent Items lists in Mac OS? Are you up in arms that it keeps a list of items you’ve recently opened? Why or why not?
The recent items in the Apple menu on MacOS X does not consume any memory space. I believe that apps listed in the FAS do still consume some part of memory - unless that memory is later needed for something else. I do see a difference between the two functions you describe. Yes, you're correct in that I can simply ignore the apps listed in the FAS ribbon. But it just seems to ugly that it's like a bug under my skin. I can't stop thinking about how poorly implemented this is.
And I'm done. Sorry about the rant.
If you don’t like FAS then stop using it. It’s that simple. Do you use all the Recent Items lists in Mac OS?
Not the same thing. In OS X the app needs to be running for the recent items to be active and those are documents not a list of recent applications. There is more than one situation that puts an app icon in the list on iOS. It is not an either or situation. An app that is in the tray is either running, suspended, finishing a task or not running, as in lost it's memory and state. The tray serves all of those situations not just a list of previously run applications.
Come on! It’s been a year since it’s been introduced. You guys should know that FAS is not a list of running apps.
So basicly, the multitasking bar contains a list of apps that may or may not be running... wow, what a great interface... its nothing short of garbage.
And like it or not those "frozen" apps do make other running apps crash has it happened to me over and over again with multiple apps. The only thing that worked to fixed lots of crashing apps was to kill all the apps in the multitask bar.
Apple really need to sort out the multitasking mess. Currently Android is much better at handling multitasking.
Why the hell would I want or need a list of recently used apps? The FAS is decidedly more than just a list of recently used apps.
Because having thousands of potential apps across your device can be tough for some to remember their location just as you are having trouble understanding what FAS was designed for.
It's a way of managing apps that deliberately put themselves into the background. If they're not doing anything, they are apparently suspended. I assume the point is that they can be quickly resuscitated with some part of their memory footprint intact.
It doesn?t matter where you access the app, it?ll pull from that suspend state regardless. You DON?T have to double-tap the Home Button to suspend an app or keep it running in the background. You CAN use Spotlight or the Home Screen to access an app that is still running in the background using one of the various APIs that allow it or from a suspend state.
I assume this is the part that's supposed to be faster than just restarting the app from the desktop. Personally, I haven't found any apps that this seems particularly useful, so I find this to be a poor programming choice.
You?ve been saying multiple things. You started off complaining that it?s apps running in the background you have to manually remove. Then you moved on saying you don?t like it, which is perfectly fine. I don?t care for it so I rarely use it. You then stated that a list of recent items should clear itself out (which makes no damn sense). And now your back to complaining that it?s not useful for anyone to have a list of your most recently accessed apps.
If the program doesn't need to run any background process, than it should simply save its own state and terminate itself, instead of putting itself in the background - to be suspended later.
I?m trying to think you?re trolling but I?m having a hard time thinking you can not understand what FAS does at this point.
If you don?t need a quick list of your most recent apps then don?t use FAS. It?s that simple.