So basicly, the multitasking bar contains a list of apps that may or may not be running... wow, what a great interface... its nothing short of garbage.
Its not a multitasking bar. Any more than the list of "Recent Items" on Mac or the "Programs" list in Windows is a multitasking bar.
Quote:
And like it or not those "frozen" apps do make other running apps crash has it happened to me over and over again with multiple apps. The only thing that worked to fixed lots of crashing apps was to kill all the apps in the multitask bar.
In iOS each app is sandboxed in its own process. An app may have crashing problems, but one app cannot make another app crash.
Quote:
Apple really need to sort out the multitasking mess. Currently Android is much better at handling multitasking.
Oh yea! Try using a chat messaging app like Yahoo Messenger and get frustrated with the countless pop up messages while using another app. Truth is that push notifications without real multitasking is a lame attempt by Apple.
... and you totally missed my point.
The point I'm trying to make is that we are arguing about mostly nothing at all. Otherwise intelligent people who normally make good contributions to the discussion are using up this whole thread arguing about the details of various multi-tasking setups and it all basically means nothing. It's irrelevant, and it's a waste of time to argue about such details unless there is a material difference to the end user. There isn't.
The difference between "a list of apps you recently used" (some of which are still "sort of" running and some of which are suspended but can start again instantly and some of which are actually closed and not running), and "a list of running programs to switch to," is almost moot. It certainly doesn't matter to anyone but a programmer. That's pretty much the whole point of the UI Apple uses for the purpose.
The best example of how stupid this argument is, is this thread which is supposed to be about an alternative UI for multi-tasking but is now completely used up by dorks arguing about what "real" multi-tasking is when the truth is no one really cares and it doesn't matter to the end user at all.
It's like the kind of discussion you'd find in an Android forum.
The recent items in the Apple menu on MacOS X does not consume any memory space. I believe that apps listed in the FAS do still consume some part of memory - unless that memory is later needed for something else.
Yeah, it?s suspended, but do you really think that all x-many apps in FAS are still hold up in RAM? You shouldn?t.
Quote:
I do see a difference between the two functions you describe. Yes, you're correct in that I can simply ignore the apps listed in the FAS ribbon. But it just seems to ugly that it's like a bug under my skin. I can't stop thinking about how poorly implemented this is.
And I'm done. Sorry about the rant.
Personally, I think the list of recent apps should be a list from the Spotlight screen when you swipe the 1st Home Screen to the right. If I then tap in the Spotlight window at the top the keyboard will then appear.
I?d also like for Apple to use a badge for for apps that are currently active in the system, even if just in FAS so users know which apps could be causing an issue. But if you think about that you?ll see why they aren?t likely to do that. Anything that makes it less seamless is not for Apple, yet this is a common misconception people have? though I oddly only see it with people are more technically inclined. I guess others don?t even think about what or how multitasking works.
Yes, iOS does indeed do multitasking. It's just a limited list of functions allowed to process in the background. I won't bicker if you want to talk about "true" multitasking, but iOS does multitask.
And is partly why iOS has a long battery life and Android devices have a short battery life. Apple is very careful not to let fancy crap just drain the battery. What good is a device if you constantly have to charge it?
Yeah, it?s suspended, but do you really think that all x-many apps in FAS are still hold up in RAM? You shouldn?t.
From Apple Docs: I have bolded certain phrases that I feel support my previous remarks.
Multitasking
Applications built using iOS SDK 4.0 or later (and running in iOS 4.0 and later) are not terminated when the user presses the Home button; instead, they shift to a background execution context. The multitasking support defined by UIKit helps your application transition to and from the background state smoothly.
To preserve battery life, most applications are suspended by the system shortly after entering the background. A suspended application remains in memory but does not execute any code. This behavior allows an application to resume quickly when it is relaunched without consuming battery power in the meantime. However, applications may be allowed to continue running in the background for the following reasons:
An application can request a finite amount of time to complete some important task.
An application can declare itself as supporting specific services that require regular background execution time.
An application can use local notifications to generate user alerts at designated times, whether or not the application is running.
Regardless of whether your application is suspended or continues running in the background, supporting multitasking does require additional work on your part. The system notifies your application as it transitions to and from the background. These notification points are your cue to perform any important application tasks such as saving user data.
From Apple Docs: I have bolded certain phrases that I feel support my previous remarks.
Multitasking
Applications built using iOS SDK 4.0 or later (and running in iOS 4.0 and later) are not terminated when the user presses the Home button; instead, they shift to a background execution context. The multitasking support defined by UIKit helps your application transition to and from the background state smoothly.
To preserve battery life, most applications are suspended by the system shortly after entering the background. A suspended application remains in memory but does not execute any code. This behavior allows an application to resume quickly when it is relaunched without consuming battery power in the meantime. However, applications may be allowed to continue running in the background for the following reasons:
An application can request a finite amount of time to complete some important task.
An application can declare itself as supporting specific services that require regular background execution time.
An application can use local notifications to generate user alerts at designated times, whether or not the application is running.
Regardless of whether your application is suspended or continues running in the background, supporting multitasking does require additional work on your part. The system notifies your application as it transitions to and from the background. These notification points are your cue to perform any important application tasks such as saving user data.
As stated ad nauseum that is Apple?s backgrounding system and FAS is not listing all apps that are currently using active resources.
Again, test this yourself. Install and launch, say, 50 apps. Then restart your device and then check FAS. it will list all the apps right back to the very first one. it?s unbelievable you still trying to say that all apps in FAS are still running in the background.
The only thing FAS has to do with active or suspended apps is it allows you to kill them if they so happen to be using resources. If they are not then deleting it from the FAS list does nothing. It?s a list!
As stated ad nauseum that is Apple?s backgrounding system and FAS is not listing all apps that are currently using active resources.
Again, test this yourself. Install and launch, say, 50 apps. Then restart your device and then check FAS. it will list all the apps right back to the very first one. it?s unbelievable you still trying to say that all apps in FAS are still running in the background.
The only thing FAS has to do with active or suspended apps is it allows you to kill them if they so happen to be using resources. If they are not then deleting it from the FAS list does nothing. It?s a list!
Well I wish it would really worked that way so I can ignore it... but since that thing is making apps crash left and right I have no choice to open that "FAS" and close everthing in it every day.
Its not a multitasking bar. Any more than the list of "Recent Items" on Mac or the "Programs" list in Windows is a multitasking bar.
In iOS each app is sandboxed in its own process. An app may have crashing problems, but one app cannot make another app crash.
What mess are you talking about?
Is it possible that this kind of crashing problems may happen to jailboken iPhones? Else I cannot see a possibility how one iOS application may cause a crash to the other, since as you mentioned they all run in individual sandboxes. I at least never saw anything like that happan.
So basicly, the multitasking bar contains a list of apps that may or may not be running... wow, what a great interface... its nothing short of garbage.
And like it or not those "frozen" apps do make other running apps crash has it happened to me over and over again with multiple apps. The only thing that worked to fixed lots of crashing apps was to kill all the apps in the multitask bar.
Apple really need to sort out the multitasking mess. Currently Android is much better at handling multitasking.
Could you explain in detail how Android's implementation is better?
Well I wish it would really worked that way so I can ignore it... but since that thing is making apps crash left and right I have no choice to open that "FAS" and close everthing in it every day.
OMG! How on earth can you run left and right apps, while your middle app causes them to crash? I would say wake up young fellow it's just a bad dream. What you describe is pretty much impossible to happen, at least for non jailbroken iPhones. (If it may happen to jailbroken iPhones, I simply don't know).
I agree. This poster has no idea what they are talking about. They have either tampered with the phone or are making all of this up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach
OMG! How on earth can you run left and right apps, while your middle app causes them to crash? I would say wake up young fellow it's just a bad dream. What you describe is pretty much impossible to happen, at least for non jailbroken iPhones. (If it may happen to jailbroken iPhones, I simply don't know).
I can see how this implementation of fast-app-switching/multi-tasking (whatever you wanna call it) could be more useful than the current one.
For example, if each app window live-updated its content, say Safari loading a web page w/ lots of images, or Google Maps tracking me as I walk, or a status bar showing a download's progress.
I think they should start using that in Android phone ads. "The multitasking is so "real" it uses 10x the battery life!!1!!11! How cool is that?! I bet your iPhone can't do that ;p*"
*the smiley is sure to make iPhone users feel jealous.
It can be a little squishy, and personal preferences and experience do factor into a users opinion on usability - but there is great value in actually designing an interface to be more intuitive, it's not different for everyone!
It is a difficult subject in many ways - for one thing you can't take what people say at face value as we're often not conscious of how we do things. But it's not just opinion. It is measurable.
Comments
So basicly, the multitasking bar contains a list of apps that may or may not be running... wow, what a great interface... its nothing short of garbage.
Its not a multitasking bar. Any more than the list of "Recent Items" on Mac or the "Programs" list in Windows is a multitasking bar.
And like it or not those "frozen" apps do make other running apps crash has it happened to me over and over again with multiple apps. The only thing that worked to fixed lots of crashing apps was to kill all the apps in the multitask bar.
In iOS each app is sandboxed in its own process. An app may have crashing problems, but one app cannot make another app crash.
Apple really need to sort out the multitasking mess. Currently Android is much better at handling multitasking.
What mess are you talking about?
Oh yea! Try using a chat messaging app like Yahoo Messenger and get frustrated with the countless pop up messages while using another app. Truth is that push notifications without real multitasking is a lame attempt by Apple.
... and you totally missed my point.
The point I'm trying to make is that we are arguing about mostly nothing at all. Otherwise intelligent people who normally make good contributions to the discussion are using up this whole thread arguing about the details of various multi-tasking setups and it all basically means nothing. It's irrelevant, and it's a waste of time to argue about such details unless there is a material difference to the end user. There isn't.
The difference between "a list of apps you recently used" (some of which are still "sort of" running and some of which are suspended but can start again instantly and some of which are actually closed and not running), and "a list of running programs to switch to," is almost moot. It certainly doesn't matter to anyone but a programmer. That's pretty much the whole point of the UI Apple uses for the purpose.
The best example of how stupid this argument is, is this thread which is supposed to be about an alternative UI for multi-tasking but is now completely used up by dorks arguing about what "real" multi-tasking is when the truth is no one really cares and it doesn't matter to the end user at all.
It's like the kind of discussion you'd find in an Android forum.
The recent items in the Apple menu on MacOS X does not consume any memory space. I believe that apps listed in the FAS do still consume some part of memory - unless that memory is later needed for something else.
Yeah, it?s suspended, but do you really think that all x-many apps in FAS are still hold up in RAM? You shouldn?t.
I do see a difference between the two functions you describe. Yes, you're correct in that I can simply ignore the apps listed in the FAS ribbon. But it just seems to ugly that it's like a bug under my skin. I can't stop thinking about how poorly implemented this is.
And I'm done. Sorry about the rant.
Personally, I think the list of recent apps should be a list from the Spotlight screen when you swipe the 1st Home Screen to the right. If I then tap in the Spotlight window at the top the keyboard will then appear.
I?d also like for Apple to use a badge for for apps that are currently active in the system, even if just in FAS so users know which apps could be causing an issue. But if you think about that you?ll see why they aren?t likely to do that. Anything that makes it less seamless is not for Apple, yet this is a common misconception people have? though I oddly only see it with people are more technically inclined. I guess others don?t even think about what or how multitasking works.
Yes, iOS does indeed do multitasking. It's just a limited list of functions allowed to process in the background. I won't bicker if you want to talk about "true" multitasking, but iOS does multitask.
And is partly why iOS has a long battery life and Android devices have a short battery life. Apple is very careful not to let fancy crap just drain the battery. What good is a device if you constantly have to charge it?
Yeah, it?s suspended, but do you really think that all x-many apps in FAS are still hold up in RAM? You shouldn?t.
From Apple Docs: I have bolded certain phrases that I feel support my previous remarks.
Multitasking
Applications built using iOS SDK 4.0 or later (and running in iOS 4.0 and later) are not terminated when the user presses the Home button; instead, they shift to a background execution context. The multitasking support defined by UIKit helps your application transition to and from the background state smoothly.
To preserve battery life, most applications are suspended by the system shortly after entering the background. A suspended application remains in memory but does not execute any code. This behavior allows an application to resume quickly when it is relaunched without consuming battery power in the meantime. However, applications may be allowed to continue running in the background for the following reasons:
An application can request a finite amount of time to complete some important task.
An application can declare itself as supporting specific services that require regular background execution time.
An application can use local notifications to generate user alerts at designated times, whether or not the application is running.
Regardless of whether your application is suspended or continues running in the background, supporting multitasking does require additional work on your part. The system notifies your application as it transitions to and from the background. These notification points are your cue to perform any important application tasks such as saving user data.
From Apple Docs: I have bolded certain phrases that I feel support my previous remarks.
Multitasking
Applications built using iOS SDK 4.0 or later (and running in iOS 4.0 and later) are not terminated when the user presses the Home button; instead, they shift to a background execution context. The multitasking support defined by UIKit helps your application transition to and from the background state smoothly.
To preserve battery life, most applications are suspended by the system shortly after entering the background. A suspended application remains in memory but does not execute any code. This behavior allows an application to resume quickly when it is relaunched without consuming battery power in the meantime. However, applications may be allowed to continue running in the background for the following reasons:
An application can request a finite amount of time to complete some important task.
An application can declare itself as supporting specific services that require regular background execution time.
An application can use local notifications to generate user alerts at designated times, whether or not the application is running.
Regardless of whether your application is suspended or continues running in the background, supporting multitasking does require additional work on your part. The system notifies your application as it transitions to and from the background. These notification points are your cue to perform any important application tasks such as saving user data.
As stated ad nauseum that is Apple?s backgrounding system and FAS is not listing all apps that are currently using active resources.
Again, test this yourself. Install and launch, say, 50 apps. Then restart your device and then check FAS. it will list all the apps right back to the very first one. it?s unbelievable you still trying to say that all apps in FAS are still running in the background.
The only thing FAS has to do with active or suspended apps is it allows you to kill them if they so happen to be using resources. If they are not then deleting it from the FAS list does nothing. It?s a list!
As stated ad nauseum that is Apple?s backgrounding system and FAS is not listing all apps that are currently using active resources.
I'd really like to read up on this FAS. Have any documentation links?
As stated ad nauseum that is Apple?s backgrounding system and FAS is not listing all apps that are currently using active resources.
Again, test this yourself. Install and launch, say, 50 apps. Then restart your device and then check FAS. it will list all the apps right back to the very first one. it?s unbelievable you still trying to say that all apps in FAS are still running in the background.
The only thing FAS has to do with active or suspended apps is it allows you to kill them if they so happen to be using resources. If they are not then deleting it from the FAS list does nothing. It?s a list!
Well I wish it would really worked that way so I can ignore it... but since that thing is making apps crash left and right I have no choice to open that "FAS" and close everthing in it every day.
No. iOS does not do multitasking. I multitask on my Droid a lot. It's good to preserve clear definitions for terms.
If iOS doesn't do multitasking, then how is it that I can check a webpage while on a phone call?
I'd really like to read up on this FAS. Have any documentation links?
Out of everyone here, you chose the right man to ask and put to the task.
Its not a multitasking bar. Any more than the list of "Recent Items" on Mac or the "Programs" list in Windows is a multitasking bar.
In iOS each app is sandboxed in its own process. An app may have crashing problems, but one app cannot make another app crash.
What mess are you talking about?
Is it possible that this kind of crashing problems may happen to jailboken iPhones? Else I cannot see a possibility how one iOS application may cause a crash to the other, since as you mentioned they all run in individual sandboxes. I at least never saw anything like that happan.
So basicly, the multitasking bar contains a list of apps that may or may not be running... wow, what a great interface... its nothing short of garbage.
And like it or not those "frozen" apps do make other running apps crash has it happened to me over and over again with multiple apps. The only thing that worked to fixed lots of crashing apps was to kill all the apps in the multitask bar.
Apple really need to sort out the multitasking mess. Currently Android is much better at handling multitasking.
Could you explain in detail how Android's implementation is better?
Well I wish it would really worked that way so I can ignore it... but since that thing is making apps crash left and right I have no choice to open that "FAS" and close everthing in it every day.
OMG! How on earth can you run left and right apps, while your middle app causes them to crash? I would say wake up young fellow it's just a bad dream. What you describe is pretty much impossible to happen, at least for non jailbroken iPhones. (If it may happen to jailbroken iPhones, I simply don't know).
OMG! How on earth can you run left and right apps, while your middle app causes them to crash? I would say wake up young fellow it's just a bad dream. What you describe is pretty much impossible to happen, at least for non jailbroken iPhones. (If it may happen to jailbroken iPhones, I simply don't know).
Could you explain in detail how Android's implementation is better?
They can drain the battery 10 times faster.
For example, if each app window live-updated its content, say Safari loading a web page w/ lots of images, or Google Maps tracking me as I walk, or a status bar showing a download's progress.
They can drain the battery 10 times faster.
I think they should start using that in Android phone ads. "The multitasking is so "real" it uses 10x the battery life!!1!!11! How cool is that?! I bet your iPhone can't do that ;p*"
*the smiley is sure to make iPhone users feel jealous.
sure looks very similar to multifl0w, an existing app for jailbroken devices.
Agreed, its identical to multifl0w from cydia. I have it running on my iphone 4 and wifes iphone 3gs.
ee
"Intuitive" is squishy. It's all about opinion.
It can be a little squishy, and personal preferences and experience do factor into a users opinion on usability - but there is great value in actually designing an interface to be more intuitive, it's not different for everyone!
It is a difficult subject in many ways - for one thing you can't take what people say at face value as we're often not conscious of how we do things. But it's not just opinion. It is measurable.