The Courier existed. But it was a working prototype. I've seen video of it working. It's on the Internet, likely on YouTube. It was apparently the brainchild of, and I've forgotten his name right now, one of the bigwigs in MS, who presented it to Ballmer, who cut the project, and rolled some of it into the Windows division, as happens with most all products there. The guy resigned, supposedly because of that.
Coffee produced using child labor isn't necessarily evil, for example on a small family owned finca it would be quite normal for the children to be involved in the picking and processing. There's still plenty of child labor going on on farms and orchards in this country (U.S.).
Besides, I thought big green bought triage coffee?
There are two things here. One is just like there are very few small farms in the US, small family owned fincas do not account for very much coffee produced. A small finca would be all on one elevation meaning that all the coffee becomes ripe within 30 days or so. In that particular case the children working could be considered family chores after school. ALL coffee growers send their kids to school. Also there is no processing done on small fincas. Their coffee is sold to a wholesaler. Two, large plantations grow coffee at many elevations and the coffee is being picked for 6 months or more. The child workers are from ethnic indians, migrant and illegal immigrant families, not the privileged land owners children who go to private school and often to university in the States.
There are two things here. One is just like there are very few small farms in the US, small family owned fincas do not account for very much coffee produced. A small finca would be all on one elevation meaning that all the coffee becomes ripe within 30 days or so. In that particular case the children working could be considered family chores after school. ALL coffee growers send their kids to school. Also there is no processing done on small fincas. Their coffee is sold to a wholesaler. Two, large plantations grow coffee at many elevations and the coffee is being picked for 6 months or more. The child workers are from ethnic indians, migrant and illegal immigrant families, not the privileged land owners children who go to private school and often to university in the States.
Seriously though, I have never heard about child slave labour actively being used by Starbucks.
The phrase 'turn a blind eye' seems apropos. A very large percentage of their coffee comes from Costa Rica where an extremely large percentage of the coffee is produced by illegal immigrant Nicaraguans who often live in huts without electricity or water. A family consisting of a man, woman and a couple children all pick coffee for 12-14 hours a day and earn together about 10 dollars.
There are two things here. One is just like there are very few small farms in the US, small family owned fincas do not account for very much coffee produced. A small finca would be all on one elevation meaning that all the coffee becomes ripe within 30 days or so. In that particular case the children working could be considered family chores after school. ALL coffee growers send their kids to school. Also there is no processing done on small fincas. Their coffee is sold to a wholesaler. Two, large plantations grow coffee at many elevations and the coffee is being picked for 6 months or more. The child workers are from ethnic indians, migrant and illegal immigrant families, not the privileged land owners children who go to private school and often to university in the States.
Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world. The communist movement proved that the only way to eliminate economic disparity is to make everyone equally poor.
We would all like to give every child the opportunities that most of us had. But eliminating child labor isn't going to help because it puts the horse before the cart. The solution is economic growth. You have to pull them out of poverty, not push them out.
Of course there are exceptions such as child prostitution. Obviously we should eliminate that on moral grounds.
But the idea that children shouldn't have to work hard or that they wouldn't enjoy working hard is a stupid one....propagated mostly by wealthy born, ignorant Americans. Those bean picking child laborers aren't committing suicide, doing drugs, or needing anti-depressants like the "privileged" educated children in America. So who is better off?
if you ever hope to make sense of the stock market, and if you ever hope to make money, the first step on that road is ignoring the advice of career criminals like Cramer.
His entire business is based on stock manipulation. He uses his media profile to selectively release information so as to manipulate the prices of the stocks that he is interested in. He almost never tells the truth. He contradicts himself daily, and anyone who follows his advice is just a pawn in his manipulation game.
He's basically admitted all this himself several times in interviews.
It's kind of like that televangelist Benny Hinn where anyone can find bushels of information on what a fraud he is and how the whole act is just to make him money, yet he is still popular, still listened to, and worst of all, still given money. Hinn was "exposed" on a 60 minutes-type newsmagazine show at least five years ago but still packs them in to his meetings today.
Some people just deserve to lose their money.
So out of your long winded post, you don't like Cramer, you spout off something about Benny Hinn, and attempt to be condescending without offering up anything remotely related to the initial question. Some people just like hearing themselves talk I suppose. Either that or jealousy should be one of the 7 deadly sins.
Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world. The communist movement proved that the only way to eliminate economic disparity is to make everyone equally poor.
We would all like to give every child the opportunities that most of us had. But eliminating child labor isn't going to help because it puts the horse before the cart. The solution is economic growth. You have to pull them out of poverty, not push them out.
Of course there are exceptions such as child prostitution. Obviously we should eliminate that on moral grounds.
But the idea that children shouldn't have to work hard or that they wouldn't enjoy working hard is a stupid one....propagated mostly by wealthy born, ignorant Americans. Those bean picking child laborers aren't committing suicide, doing drugs, or needing anti-depressants like the "privileged" educated children in America. So who is better off?
Every child should have the opportunity for an education, nutrition and healthcare.
The Courier existed. But it was a working prototype. I've seen video of it working. It's on the Internet, likely on YouTube. It was apparently the brainchild of, and I've forgotten his name right now, one of the bigwigs in MS, who presented it to Ballmer, who cut the project, and rolled some of it into the Windows division, as happens with most all products there. The guy resigned, supposedly because of that.
I was under the impression the video showing the UI was all computer animation not an actual WinCE-based device.
The phrase 'turn a blind eye' seems apropos. A very large percentage of their coffee comes from Costa Rica where an extremely large percentage of the coffee is produced by illegal immigrant Nicaraguans who often live in huts without electricity or water. Men, woman and children all pick coffee for 12-14 hours a day and earn together about 10 dollars.
You say this as though it is a bad thing. I've worked for next to nothing as a child and it didn't bother me. You exemplify the ignorance of American society. What makes you think huts without electricity or running water is such a bad thing? If someone has food to eat and good health, the rest is just stuff. Mankind (including Kings and Queens) got along just fine without electricity for millions of years. Why should I pity the lack of electricity for a coffee bean picker? Should I pity myself because I can't afford a private jet like Steve Jobs? Happiness comes from making do with what you have. Sure we hope to deliver electricity to all the world. But the lack of electricity isn't the end of the world. I personally knew and associated with a family in Allende Mexico (near Montemorelos) that didn't have electricity. I ate at their house several times under candle light. The food and the company was good. I had no complaints. I bought them a bus ticket once so they could go see some relatives. They were very appreciative. You need to crawl out of your little world and see things from someone else's perspective. Those people that traveled from Nicaragua to Costa Rica did it because they found something better. Who are you to say we should bar them from the opportunity because we think they are being mistreated. As if they care about electricity. Sheesh. Candles work just fine. As for the 12-14 hour days, that's no different then what I do? I have a brother in NYC that is working 16+ hours six days a week in a high tech job. Why don't we ban that?
You say this as though it is a bad thing. I've worked for next to nothing as a child and it didn't bother me. You exemplify the ignorance of American society. What makes you think huts without electricity or running water is such a bad thing? If someone has food to eat and good health, the rest is just stuff. Mankind (including Kings and Queens) got along just fine without electricity for millions of years. Why should I pity the lack of electricity for a coffee bean picker? Should I pity myself because I can't afford a private jet like Steve Jobs? Happiness comes from making do with what you have. Sure we hope to deliver electricity to all the world. But the lack of electricity isn't the end of the world. I personally knew and associated with a family in Allende Mexico (near Montemorelos) that didn't have electricity. I ate at their house several times under candle light. The food and the company was good. I had no complaints. I bought them a bus ticket once so they could go see some relatives. They were very appreciative. You need to crawl out of your little world and see things from someone else's perspective. Those people that traveled from Nicaragua to Costa Rica did it because they found something better. Who are you to say we should bar them from the opportunity because we think they are being mistreated. As if they care about electricity. Sheesh.
Humanity is not survival of the fittest. There are such things as compassion, justice and charity. Some of us are willing to make and effort to help the disadvantaged among us. Your description of your experiences is a little suspect about your growing up poor and then making it on your own in modern society. You didn't learn how to type and speak English without some electricity and probably a lot of other amenities and advantages. Who helped you?
Every child should have the opportunity for an education, nutrition and healthcare.
Picking beans 12 hours a day is an education.
If I had to guess, the Costa Ricans probably don't pay to educate the Nicaraguan children, which means that the Nicaraguan parents take their kids to work with them. The parents and children working in the fields and spending evenings together at night isn't such a bad thing. Obviously it is better than the other choices the families have or they wouldn't do it. Blaming the coffee growers or the coffee consumers for the situation is just messed up.
Blaming the coffee growers or the coffee consumers for the situation is just messed up.
Wrong. Both are to blame. The best growers provide housing, healthcare and school for all their workers and children. If you are interested in rewarding the growers and the modern coffee retailers who support this philosophy I can provide a list of them for you by PM.
Humanity is not survival of the fittest. There are such things as compassion, justice and charity. Some of us are willing to make and effort to help the disadvantaged among us. Your description of your experiences is a little suspect about your growing up poor and then making it on your own in modern society. You didn't learn how to type and speak English without some electricity and probably a lot of other amenities and advantages. Who helped you?
You missed my point. You think that a Nicaraguan isn't going to be happy unless he or she has what you have. I think you are wrong. The need for compassion is a figment of your imagination. I'm telling you, the lack of electricity isn't really that big a deal for a Nicaraguan trying to escape his or her country. Your compassion is contingent on the belief that the Nicaraguans need what you have. Trust me, they don't; just like I don't give a shit about having a private jet. Having a private jet may be important to some people, but it isn't to me.
You are imposing your needs on a group of people you don't know or understand. In most cases, American's will visit these people and come to an incorrect conclusion about their needs. Some of these poor people may even figure out what is going on in your head and use it to their advantage by playing the "poor me card." (I've seen that done many times).
After living with these poor people for a while you figure out that their poor society is no different than your rich society. If no one has electricity, no one cares. They are probably thinking about how lucky they are that their floor is flat instead of sloped like the Jone's hut two doors down. They are checking out the pretty girls and talking about who is doing what with who and how so and so got a job doing such and such. It's all the same.
But you can go on thinking that life sucks for them because they don't have what you have. In the end, they don't give a shit what you think, which is why they aren't sad about not having what you have.
Your compassion is contingent on the belief that the Nicaraguans need what you have.
I've had it with your nonsense. You have no toothbrush and no clean water and you have an infected root on a molar that is so painful you can't even stand up and you think that a hard day's work in the coffee fields will take your mind off it. You are saying that access to healthcare is not important. No immunizations against malaria necessary, walk it off, be a man. You could not be more dispassionate or selfish if you have the means to help correct this but choose to ignore it supposedly for the good life lessons of the individual who suffers. You are a sick human being. Although the latter may be giving you more credit than you deserve.
Comments
The courier never existed.
The Courier existed. But it was a working prototype. I've seen video of it working. It's on the Internet, likely on YouTube. It was apparently the brainchild of, and I've forgotten his name right now, one of the bigwigs in MS, who presented it to Ballmer, who cut the project, and rolled some of it into the Windows division, as happens with most all products there. The guy resigned, supposedly because of that.
Coffee produced using child labor isn't necessarily evil, for example on a small family owned finca it would be quite normal for the children to be involved in the picking and processing. There's still plenty of child labor going on on farms and orchards in this country (U.S.).
Besides, I thought big green bought triage coffee?
There are two things here. One is just like there are very few small farms in the US, small family owned fincas do not account for very much coffee produced. A small finca would be all on one elevation meaning that all the coffee becomes ripe within 30 days or so. In that particular case the children working could be considered family chores after school. ALL coffee growers send their kids to school. Also there is no processing done on small fincas. Their coffee is sold to a wholesaler. Two, large plantations grow coffee at many elevations and the coffee is being picked for 6 months or more. The child workers are from ethnic indians, migrant and illegal immigrant families, not the privileged land owners children who go to private school and often to university in the States.
There are two things here. One is just like there are very few small farms in the US, small family owned fincas do not account for very much coffee produced. A small finca would be all on one elevation meaning that all the coffee becomes ripe within 30 days or so. In that particular case the children working could be considered family chores after school. ALL coffee growers send their kids to school. Also there is no processing done on small fincas. Their coffee is sold to a wholesaler. Two, large plantations grow coffee at many elevations and the coffee is being picked for 6 months or more. The child workers are from ethnic indians, migrant and illegal immigrant families, not the privileged land owners children who go to private school and often to university in the States.
And the point to that is?
Seriously though, I have never heard about child slave labour actively being used by Starbucks.
The phrase 'turn a blind eye' seems apropos. A very large percentage of their coffee comes from Costa Rica where an extremely large percentage of the coffee is produced by illegal immigrant Nicaraguans who often live in huts without electricity or water. A family consisting of a man, woman and a couple children all pick coffee for 12-14 hours a day and earn together about 10 dollars.
And the point to that is?
That he was mistaken on all accounts.
There are two things here. One is just like there are very few small farms in the US, small family owned fincas do not account for very much coffee produced. A small finca would be all on one elevation meaning that all the coffee becomes ripe within 30 days or so. In that particular case the children working could be considered family chores after school. ALL coffee growers send their kids to school. Also there is no processing done on small fincas. Their coffee is sold to a wholesaler. Two, large plantations grow coffee at many elevations and the coffee is being picked for 6 months or more. The child workers are from ethnic indians, migrant and illegal immigrant families, not the privileged land owners children who go to private school and often to university in the States.
Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world. The communist movement proved that the only way to eliminate economic disparity is to make everyone equally poor.
We would all like to give every child the opportunities that most of us had. But eliminating child labor isn't going to help because it puts the horse before the cart. The solution is economic growth. You have to pull them out of poverty, not push them out.
Of course there are exceptions such as child prostitution. Obviously we should eliminate that on moral grounds.
But the idea that children shouldn't have to work hard or that they wouldn't enjoy working hard is a stupid one....propagated mostly by wealthy born, ignorant Americans. Those bean picking child laborers aren't committing suicide, doing drugs, or needing anti-depressants like the "privileged" educated children in America. So who is better off?
Steve Jobs should send Mr. Gates a thank you note for that 400 million dollar loan
You mean the $150 Million invested in non-voting shares?
if you ever hope to make sense of the stock market, and if you ever hope to make money, the first step on that road is ignoring the advice of career criminals like Cramer.
His entire business is based on stock manipulation. He uses his media profile to selectively release information so as to manipulate the prices of the stocks that he is interested in. He almost never tells the truth. He contradicts himself daily, and anyone who follows his advice is just a pawn in his manipulation game.
He's basically admitted all this himself several times in interviews.
It's kind of like that televangelist Benny Hinn where anyone can find bushels of information on what a fraud he is and how the whole act is just to make him money, yet he is still popular, still listened to, and worst of all, still given money. Hinn was "exposed" on a 60 minutes-type newsmagazine show at least five years ago but still packs them in to his meetings today.
Some people just deserve to lose their money.
So out of your long winded post, you don't like Cramer, you spout off something about Benny Hinn, and attempt to be condescending without offering up anything remotely related to the initial question. Some people just like hearing themselves talk I suppose. Either that or jealousy should be one of the 7 deadly sins.
Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world. The communist movement proved that the only way to eliminate economic disparity is to make everyone equally poor.
We would all like to give every child the opportunities that most of us had. But eliminating child labor isn't going to help because it puts the horse before the cart. The solution is economic growth. You have to pull them out of poverty, not push them out.
Of course there are exceptions such as child prostitution. Obviously we should eliminate that on moral grounds.
But the idea that children shouldn't have to work hard or that they wouldn't enjoy working hard is a stupid one....propagated mostly by wealthy born, ignorant Americans. Those bean picking child laborers aren't committing suicide, doing drugs, or needing anti-depressants like the "privileged" educated children in America. So who is better off?
Every child should have the opportunity for an education, nutrition and healthcare.
The Courier existed. But it was a working prototype. I've seen video of it working. It's on the Internet, likely on YouTube. It was apparently the brainchild of, and I've forgotten his name right now, one of the bigwigs in MS, who presented it to Ballmer, who cut the project, and rolled some of it into the Windows division, as happens with most all products there. The guy resigned, supposedly because of that.
I was under the impression the video showing the UI was all computer animation not an actual WinCE-based device.
Bill Gates: You don't get it, Steve. That doesn't matter!
Turns out it does.
You mean the $150 Million invested in non-voting shares?
...in part settlement for stealing quicktime code at that...
The phrase 'turn a blind eye' seems apropos. A very large percentage of their coffee comes from Costa Rica where an extremely large percentage of the coffee is produced by illegal immigrant Nicaraguans who often live in huts without electricity or water. Men, woman and children all pick coffee for 12-14 hours a day and earn together about 10 dollars.
You say this as though it is a bad thing. I've worked for next to nothing as a child and it didn't bother me. You exemplify the ignorance of American society. What makes you think huts without electricity or running water is such a bad thing? If someone has food to eat and good health, the rest is just stuff. Mankind (including Kings and Queens) got along just fine without electricity for millions of years. Why should I pity the lack of electricity for a coffee bean picker? Should I pity myself because I can't afford a private jet like Steve Jobs? Happiness comes from making do with what you have. Sure we hope to deliver electricity to all the world. But the lack of electricity isn't the end of the world. I personally knew and associated with a family in Allende Mexico (near Montemorelos) that didn't have electricity. I ate at their house several times under candle light. The food and the company was good. I had no complaints. I bought them a bus ticket once so they could go see some relatives. They were very appreciative. You need to crawl out of your little world and see things from someone else's perspective. Those people that traveled from Nicaragua to Costa Rica did it because they found something better. Who are you to say we should bar them from the opportunity because we think they are being mistreated. As if they care about electricity. Sheesh. Candles work just fine. As for the 12-14 hour days, that's no different then what I do? I have a brother in NYC that is working 16+ hours six days a week in a high tech job. Why don't we ban that?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/29/n...ce-exciting-l/
Sometimes MS market plans defy explanation
EDIT: Sorry, the video is here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WYWGKnVkEw
You say this as though it is a bad thing. I've worked for next to nothing as a child and it didn't bother me. You exemplify the ignorance of American society. What makes you think huts without electricity or running water is such a bad thing? If someone has food to eat and good health, the rest is just stuff. Mankind (including Kings and Queens) got along just fine without electricity for millions of years. Why should I pity the lack of electricity for a coffee bean picker? Should I pity myself because I can't afford a private jet like Steve Jobs? Happiness comes from making do with what you have. Sure we hope to deliver electricity to all the world. But the lack of electricity isn't the end of the world. I personally knew and associated with a family in Allende Mexico (near Montemorelos) that didn't have electricity. I ate at their house several times under candle light. The food and the company was good. I had no complaints. I bought them a bus ticket once so they could go see some relatives. They were very appreciative. You need to crawl out of your little world and see things from someone else's perspective. Those people that traveled from Nicaragua to Costa Rica did it because they found something better. Who are you to say we should bar them from the opportunity because we think they are being mistreated. As if they care about electricity. Sheesh.
Humanity is not survival of the fittest. There are such things as compassion, justice and charity. Some of us are willing to make and effort to help the disadvantaged among us. Your description of your experiences is a little suspect about your growing up poor and then making it on your own in modern society. You didn't learn how to type and speak English without some electricity and probably a lot of other amenities and advantages. Who helped you?
Every child should have the opportunity for an education, nutrition and healthcare.
Picking beans 12 hours a day is an education.
If I had to guess, the Costa Ricans probably don't pay to educate the Nicaraguan children, which means that the Nicaraguan parents take their kids to work with them. The parents and children working in the fields and spending evenings together at night isn't such a bad thing. Obviously it is better than the other choices the families have or they wouldn't do it. Blaming the coffee growers or the coffee consumers for the situation is just messed up.
Blaming the coffee growers or the coffee consumers for the situation is just messed up.
Wrong. Both are to blame. The best growers provide housing, healthcare and school for all their workers and children. If you are interested in rewarding the growers and the modern coffee retailers who support this philosophy I can provide a list of them for you by PM.
Humanity is not survival of the fittest. There are such things as compassion, justice and charity. Some of us are willing to make and effort to help the disadvantaged among us. Your description of your experiences is a little suspect about your growing up poor and then making it on your own in modern society. You didn't learn how to type and speak English without some electricity and probably a lot of other amenities and advantages. Who helped you?
You missed my point. You think that a Nicaraguan isn't going to be happy unless he or she has what you have. I think you are wrong. The need for compassion is a figment of your imagination. I'm telling you, the lack of electricity isn't really that big a deal for a Nicaraguan trying to escape his or her country. Your compassion is contingent on the belief that the Nicaraguans need what you have. Trust me, they don't; just like I don't give a shit about having a private jet. Having a private jet may be important to some people, but it isn't to me.
You are imposing your needs on a group of people you don't know or understand. In most cases, American's will visit these people and come to an incorrect conclusion about their needs. Some of these poor people may even figure out what is going on in your head and use it to their advantage by playing the "poor me card." (I've seen that done many times).
After living with these poor people for a while you figure out that their poor society is no different than your rich society. If no one has electricity, no one cares. They are probably thinking about how lucky they are that their floor is flat instead of sloped like the Jone's hut two doors down. They are checking out the pretty girls and talking about who is doing what with who and how so and so got a job doing such and such. It's all the same.
But you can go on thinking that life sucks for them because they don't have what you have. In the end, they don't give a shit what you think, which is why they aren't sad about not having what you have.
Microsoft is still doing very well. They're making the best products they ever have done, such as:
- Zune desktop software
- Zune hardware and mobile software
- Windows Phone 7
- Windows 7
- Office 2010
- Office 2011 for Mac
- Xbox 360
- Xbox Live
Get rid of zune and windows phone 7 and I can agree that these are good products.
Your compassion is contingent on the belief that the Nicaraguans need what you have.
I've had it with your nonsense. You have no toothbrush and no clean water and you have an infected root on a molar that is so painful you can't even stand up and you think that a hard day's work in the coffee fields will take your mind off it. You are saying that access to healthcare is not important. No immunizations against malaria necessary, walk it off, be a man. You could not be more dispassionate or selfish if you have the means to help correct this but choose to ignore it supposedly for the good life lessons of the individual who suffers. You are a sick human being. Although the latter may be giving you more credit than you deserve.