Inside Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: Developer Preview 3 dials down animated tabs

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  • Reply 81 of 112
    tonjiktonjik Posts: 3member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by foljs View Post


    Probably because Apple thinks that the use of a high-def monitor is NOT to look at the ...sliders and buttons, but rather at your, you know, CONTENT.



    Documents, images, web pages, movies, porn collection, you know...



    I was thinking about this "FOCUS ON CONTENT" whole morning. It does make sense for people working on just one task at one moment -like browsing news on the web, watchig movies, editing photos, cutting videos etc. - this approach means focusing on individualist artists and consumers - which has been Apple's target group - so ok, why not.



    But such approach works less for people performing multiple tasks at one moment or one task using more apps at one moment and needing to switch among multiple windows having quick visual control in which app they are. Examples: work with data, webdesign, office work or students' life (switching between homeworks, web, facebook and Twitter, mail, games) - these are situations where you do bot need to be focused on just one content. But Apple seems to be drifting away from such users, which is a pity. By the way such approach is answer why Macs are not so popular at offices and why Apple is losing its game in social networking and co-working (ping try was example, similar case iAd - its hard to focus user on comments of musicians when iTunes is designed to focus on music and hard to attract user with iAd when using specialized app).



    When first Lion info came out I was feeling happy they resolved the dilema between multi-app work and focus on content by allowing intuitive colored interface for those using multiple apps and giving great full screen feature with pure black menu and icons to those who need to be focused.



    But pushing everybody to "focus on the content" of single app even when not needed is mistake that will lead to Mac being limited like iPad. iPad is great when i want to read news, watch movie, edit photo or cut videos in iMovie, but when I got a budiness mail with doc in attachement, need to save the file to project folder, duplicate it and add my comments into the text chechking content with experiment data in xls and research report in PDF and send it back, then I am frustrated. Of course its not purpose of mobile device like iPad, but I hoped it was purpose of Mac - so why should Mac os UI look like iOS?
  • Reply 82 of 112
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Wow, this thread has been an amazing display of self assured arm chair interaction design. I'd add my own overly certain and unequivicated proclamation, but it seems everything has already been covered.
  • Reply 83 of 112
    Looking at the three screen shots of the Security pane, I'm personally more impressed with the middle one (previous Lion interface). Even without the Aqua interface, it seems to have a more polished look and feel, and that (for me) has always been one of the best features of Mac OS (and the most lacking one in almost any version of windows). Also, I'm not a fan of the slightly reduced size of the red/yellow/green buttons - I will have fits with this with older clients (and I'm honestly becoming one myself...)
  • Reply 84 of 112
    ecsecs Posts: 307member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stonefingers View Post


    Looking at the three screen shots of the Security pane, I'm personally more impressed with the middle one (previous Lion interface). Even without the Aqua interface, it seems to have a more polished look and feel, and that (for me) has always been one of the best features of Mac OS (and the most lacking one in almost any version of windows). Also, I'm not a fan of the slightly reduced size of the red/yellow/green buttons - I will have fits with this with older clients (and I'm honestly becoming one myself...)



    The Security pane is not relevant, because it has almost none UI controls, so there's not a big change from standard Aqua.



    If you want to 'feel Lion", take a look at the new "Speech" pane. This is how it looked in a UI which had a character:





    Now, these are the "new" Lion looks. Honestly, this could be an screenshot from a current Gnome release:



    Call it elegance if you wish. I don't feel it's elegant. I feel it's Gnome.



    Honestly, I don't like this new UI. Well, maybe it's fine for Linux, but certainly not for the Mac.
  • Reply 85 of 112
    povilaspovilas Posts: 473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ecs View Post


    The Security pane is not relevant, because it has almost none UI controls, so there's not a big change from standard Aqua.



    If you want to 'feel Lion", take a look at the new "Speech" pane. This is how it looked in a UI which had a character:





    Now, these are the "new" Lion looks. Honestly, this could be an screenshot from a current Gnome release:



    Call it elegance if you wish. I don't feel it's elegant. I feel it's Gnome.



    Honestly, I don't like this new UI. Well, maybe it's fine for Linux, but certainly not for the Mac.



    Well you feel wrong and even more you need to check your eyesight. He sees Gnome ... give me a break.
  • Reply 86 of 112
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Povilas View Post


    Well you feel wrong and even more you need to check your eyesight. He sees Gnome ... give me a break.



    I can see what he means in regards to the squaring of the boxes but that?s about it. Despite all these years Linux-based UIs are still horrible.
  • Reply 87 of 112
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ecs View Post


    The Security pane is not relevant, because it has almost none UI controls, so there's not a big change from standard Aqua.



    If you want to 'feel Lion", take a look at the new "Speech" pane. This is how it looked in a UI which had a character:



    Honestly, I don't like this new UI. Well, maybe it's fine for Linux, but certainly not for the Mac.



    They are not getting rid of Aqua. Aqua is one of the top features mentioned by name in the developer page "What is new in Lion".



    It is a refinement of Aqua. The whole concept of minimal UI is part of the philosophy of "It Just Works". The same concept is applied to the full screen apps. When you think about your daily use of a Mac, once you are in your app, all you see is the top menu bar, which has always been gray. Seriously how many time a day do you go into the System Preferences where you would even encounter those controls?



    I do agree with the earlier remarks that color is an important aspect of quickly recognizing certain interface features which is why the dock icons should remain distinctively colored but I certainly wouldn't want the default UI to have rainbows of different colors.



    Also I can understand why Apple does not provide many user customization options for the interface. They are concerned about maintaining a consistent image for the Apple brand and don't want the look and feel polluted with gaudy color schemes. You can change the desktop background. What more do you want? Unless you have special accessibility issues that should be enough.
  • Reply 88 of 112
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ecs View Post


    I don't feel it's elegant. I feel it's Gnome.



    Which stole its UI from Apple. I'm confused as to your point.
  • Reply 89 of 112
    zachb10zachb10 Posts: 59member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ecs View Post


    The Security pane is not relevant, because it has almost none UI controls, so there's not a big change from standard Aqua.



    If you want to 'feel Lion", take a look at the new "Speech" pane. This is how it looked in a UI which had a character:





    Now, these are the "new" Lion looks. Honestly, this could be an screenshot from a current Gnome release:



    Call it elegance if you wish. I don't feel it's elegant. I feel it's Gnome.



    Honestly, I don't like this new UI. Well, maybe it's fine for Linux, but certainly not for the Mac.



    That simply looks like hell. One can call it elegant if they wish, but I certainly will not be upgrading to Lion for this. It has great new features, but the interface is extremely boring. I'll stretch what I can out of Snow Leopard.
  • Reply 90 of 112
    ecsecs Posts: 307member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    They are not getting rid of Aqua. Aqua is one of the top features mentioned by name in the developer page "What is new in Lion".



    It is a refinement of Aqua. The whole concept of minimal UI is part of the philosophy of "It Just Works". The same concept is applied to the full screen apps. When you think about your daily use of a Mac, once you are in your app, all you see is the top menu bar, which has always been gray. Seriously how many time a day do you go into the System Preferences where you would even encounter those controls?



    I do agree with the earlier remarks that color is an important aspect of quickly recognizing certain interface features which is why the dock icons should remain distinctively colored but I certainly wouldn't want the default UI to have rainbows of different colors.



    Also I can understand why Apple does not provide many user customization options for the interface. They are concerned about maintaining a consistent image for the Apple brand and don't want the look and feel polluted with gaudy color schemes. You can change the desktop background. What more do you want? Unless you have special accessibility issues that should be enough.



    I understand your point, mstone, and I agree with your comments. I agree about the minimal UI concept. I didn't mean the Mac UI must be gaudy. It has never been gaudy, but, however, whenever you saw a Mac screenshot in the past, you saw a very special design signature on it. Let's be clear: most of the dudes who wish to install OSX on VMWare on their PCs wish so just because they are intrigued by the Aqua look. It's not a gaudy look, it's a very attractive look.



    I'm sorry, but I don't see any attractive in these Lion screenshots. It's true you just see a menubar most of the times, but... what about file chooser dialogs, color choosing dialogs, Finder windows, etc...? you work with them quite a bit, I guess.



    I no longer find it attractive. It's not a different look from what I see everyday in other (Non-Mac) computers.



    Btw, I don't understand why they want to continue calling it Aqua. Regarding Aqua: "Steve Jobs noted Aqua's glossy aesthetic: "One of the design goals was when you saw it you wanted to lick it.""



    Why continue it calling Aqua if you no longer want its liquid aesthetic?



    Also, if color is no longer important, I'd prefer the blue shades to be user-configurable: I'd change it to red in order to give it some powerful character, rather than that sad blue that seems to be the ruins of Aqua.



    I don't want a gaudy UI, but I want a very attractive one.
  • Reply 91 of 112
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ecs View Post


    I understand your point, mstone, and I agree with your comments. I agree about the minimal UI concept. I didn't mean the Mac UI must be gaudy. It has never been gaudy, but, however, whenever you saw a Mac screenshot in the past, you saw a very special design signature on it. Let's be clear: most of the dudes who wish to install OSX on VMWare on their PCs wish so just because they are intrigued by the Aqua look. It's not a gaudy look, it's a very attractive look.



    I'm sorry, but I don't see any attractive in these Lion screenshots. It's true you just see a menubar most of the times, but... what about file chooser dialogs, color choosing dialogs, Finder windows, etc...? you work with them quite a bit, I guess.



    I no longer find it attractive. It's not a different look from what I see everyday in other (Non-Mac) computers.



    Btw, I don't understand why they want to continue calling it Aqua. Regarding Aqua: "Steve Jobs noted Aqua's glossy aesthetic: "One of the design goals was when you saw it you wanted to lick it.""



    Why continue it calling Aqua if you no longer want its liquid aesthetic?



    Also, if color is no longer important, I'd prefer the blue shades to be user-configurable: I'd change it to red in order to give it some powerful character, rather than that sad blue that seems to be the ruins of Aqua.



    I don't want a gaudy UI, but I want a very attractive one.



    You are reading too much into this. The UI is almost the same as Snow Leopard. A lot of the Aqua elements are still there. About the only difference is the scroll bars and those dialog box switches. There is still plenty of blue eye candy. Nothing to worry about.
  • Reply 92 of 112
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ZachB10 View Post


    That simply looks like hell. One can call it elegant if they wish, but I certainly will not be upgrading to Lion for this. It has great new features, but the interface is extremely boring. I'll stretch what I can out of Snow Leopard.



    You will not want to give up all the technical improvements in Lion.
  • Reply 93 of 112
    s.metcalfs.metcalf Posts: 875member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


    Why the loss of color? It looks dour, monochromatic without Aqua highlights...



    I'd say Apple is going for a more sophisticated, professional look in contrast to the more fun appearance of Aqua. Aqua has been toned down with every major release since it's very "lickable" debut so this is just a continuation of that trend but it's also a much bigger jump than we've seen in previous releases.



    It's obviously a very deliberate move or they wouldn't be putting effort into the changes. I think they want to start breaking down perceptions that OS X isn't a viable office or business operating system, which of course it is but messaging and perceptions can be heavily influenced by things like the UI. I'd say Apple want to start really taking it to Microsoft in the business sector now that they're gaining traction with the iPhone and iPad.



    It's good to see Apple putting a lot of effort into the UI this time around. Overall I like the changes as it's still very simple and clean and well aqua was starting to get a bit long in the tooth anyway.
  • Reply 94 of 112
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You will not want to give up all the technical improvements in Lion.



    Heck yes, he will. He'll sit on Snow Leopard until all the machines on the planet that can run it are broken. Apple users get like this; it's pathetic.
  • Reply 95 of 112
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    I'm not really that keen on the Mac App Store for dev releases. Seams cumbersome to have to redeem and then load the installer into the Applications directory. At least they got smart about the patch and used the Software Updater not the App Store unlike xcode that makes you re-download the entire thing for a .02 patch. Plus you have to keep the 4.5 gig installer file in your applications directory even after the install.
  • Reply 96 of 112
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    I just noticed that Lion now has an option for custom solid colors inside the paltry solid color menu for desktop backgrounds without having to resort to creating/copying your own solid color option to your pictures folder.



    This has always struck me as an odd omission since they do have a custom color palette option for the areas surrounding an image if it?s not full screen.
  • Reply 97 of 112
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Heck yes, he will. He'll sit on Snow Leopard until all the machines on the planet that can run it are broken. Apple users get like this; it's pathetic.



    Funny, you say that and you don't even know me. Many other people on here think the new interface sucks too. I do not always upgrade just to "upgrade" or have the latest and greatest for no reason. It has to make sense for me to do the update as newer is not always better. I don't need my MacBook pro to feel like an iPad. That's why I have an iPad. What I have currently runs fine - when it makes sense to upgrade, then I will.



    Jackass.
  • Reply 98 of 112
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I'm not really that keen on the Mac App Store for dev releases. Seams cumbersome to have to redeem and then load the installer into the Applications directory. At least they got smart about the patch and used the Software Updater not the App Store unlike xcode that makes you re-download the entire thing for a .02 patch. Plus you have to keep the 4.5 gig installer file in your applications directory even after the install.



    it is a pain in the ass but I think that is how they are going to sell it in the future, which I?m all for, so I?m okay with dealing with a few hiccups.



    The redeem code also allows it to be sold much the same way .Mac and MobileMe have been sold. The retail box can be small because it only has to house the redeem code, no installer. This then allows the OS to be sold through 3rd-parties, not just Apple, which means some potential cost saving.



    I think they will likely offer a CD version but at a greater cost than the DL-only version.



    The problems I see so far is the Mac App Store simply isn?t that great for handling such a large DL. Dropbox and torrents do a great job of breaking up files and putting them back together seamlessly. Case in point, I?ve had some issues getting Lion to install. Turns out Mac App Store with my Mac is messing up some part of the download, but only with Preview 2.



    Since the 3rd update was via Software Update and Apple?s dev support hasn?t gotten back to me for weeks with a resolution and are stingy, to say the least, with redeem codes I decided to find an ?alternative" source to get a working installer. Lion from the Mac App Store isn't encapsulated with DRM like regular apps so I knew it wouldn?t be difficult. Just today I installed Preview 2 without a hitch, then did each of the two 1GB updates, and then downloaded the 4GB Xcode 4.1 for Lion at an Apple Store. With 20Gbps and my SSD all 12GB down and 4 installations happened in an hour.



    So, yes, I understand what you mean by cumbersome. The Recovery HD is great but I think they need to expand it to more than 750MB to also include the Installer files. Without an option to boot into Recovery HD and then reinstall the OS over itself or from scratch the process becomes even more cumbersome than before if you do happen to have a problem. Even letting Recovery HD locate the Installer on some other partition or drive would be okay.



    As it stands now, if you had an installation crap out on you, like I did since the issue with my download wasn?t noticed until mostly through the installation, there is nothing you can do without the Snow Leopard DVD. Then you?re back to square one with a wiped drive and a redeem code that no longer works.
  • Reply 99 of 112
    Looks like Aqua is leaving slowly but surely. I think its time for a new look.
  • Reply 100 of 112
    vanfrunikenvanfruniken Posts: 258member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post


    Thank goodness Apple finally came to their senses on this previously-horrible UI decision. There's hope for Apple yet!



    Now it looks more or less decent, but the highlighted tab would be better offset from the other tabs if the contrast would be more distinctive (white lettering instead of light grey) for the hightlighted tab and LESS DISTINCT for the unselected tab(s) (gray lettering instead of black).



    With the better, updated Lion look, the unselected button(s) may be taken for selected one, in particular when there are only two tabs, a selected one and an unselected one.
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