I expect a lot more applications to evolve this way. Along with the ones you mentioned (iLife, Numbers, Pages, and Keynote) I think you should also add iTunes.
I think we?ll have to see something pretty close to how iTunes currently works for their iCloud service to be a winner. That includes but is not limited to Playlist access, creation and editing right from the browser.
As I?m sure you know they moved iTunes Store within iTunes to WebKit a couple years ago and now have pre-iTunes Store/App Store web browser pages that mimic the look and feel pretty much exactly. You can even sample music tracks within the modern browsers. I bring this up because I?ve always seen this as a stepping stone to the eventual inclusion to a web-based iTunes app.
Quote:
For consumers I think Apple have shown you can do this with a curated App Store. You don't have to run everything through a browser.
I think Apple will continue to expand on this with future iOS and OSX versions. Eventually you should be able to log into a computer and have access to everything you own. For example personal pictures, videos, documents and settings along with purchased music, movies, TV and apps.
If you don't have permission to (or don't want to) sync to a computer there should be simplified "web app" versions of the applications you own.
This is an interesting thought and perhaps not too difficult with Apple?s support for modern webcode, though looking at iWeb you wouldn?t think Apple cared much at all. \
They give some examples of data (music, pictures, videos, bookmarks) and of cloud services (Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo) but it doesn't state that "Cloud computing" is exclusively limited to these services.
Never said it was. I said things like Netflix aren't examples of cloud computing, as the term is commonly used. Netflix is an example of cloud computing if you use the term to mean "network computing" or "Internet computing".
But, again, I'm not seeing a lot of point in arguing the technical definition of a marketing term. Netflix is what it is, regardless of whether or not you and I agree on the meaning of "The Cloud".
Hey, remember clicking that little agree button. You agreed that any loss of information due to YOU not being RESPONSIBLE to back up what's important to YOU, won't be apple's responsibility. Take some god damn responsibility lolol...jeeezzz adults act as ignorant as kids.
One of the things I like about AppleInsider is the lack of snotty criticism. Well, I guess until now. Seriously, do you read every license agreement that you have to click "agree" to? It's Apple. They are trusted. He should've backed up....and probably did. If not, I'm sure there's a recovery program that will get his photos back. You don't have to be a dick about it.
It's funny how people hide behind the internet to spew their venom.
IMO Microsoft has shown the best balance with office integration that Apple would do well to emulate.
Files are stored locally and in the cloud. If you have Office installed on the PC you're using you get the full featured experience. If not, you can edit the documents online using Office Web Apps.
Although this is useful, to be honest it isn't really revolutionary. People have been doing the same thing with email for years.
I expect a lot more applications to evolve this way. Along with the ones you mentioned (iLife, Numbers, Pages, and Keynote) I think you should also add iTunes.
For consumers I think Apple have shown you can do this with a curated App Store. You don't have to run everything through a browser.
I think Apple will continue to expand on this with future iOS and OSX versions. Eventually you should be able to log into a computer and have access to everything you own. For example personal pictures, videos, documents and settings along with purchased music, movies, TV and apps.
If you don't have permission to (or don't want to) sync to a computer there should be simplified "web app" versions of the applications you own.
Yep you're correct, I missed iTunes. I think your last sentence is what is making hearts beat strong for the Cloud, given that 90% of the abilities of applications like Word are unused making a streamlined, made for web and desktop application possible and practical. The Google apps that you had mentioned in a prior post I think are there to test the waters, there are different ways to measure success, especially when talking about a paradigm shift when it comes to large organizations and IT support.
It was a leading question. Jobs already knew what it was SUPPOSED to do, and he was waiting for the idiot that would answer the question to give his response.
Thompson
And he should have done all that before the product was launched. You don't wait wait till after the launch to determine whether or not the product is what you want it to be.
Never said it was. I said things like Netflix aren't examples of cloud computing, as the term is commonly used. Netflix is an example of cloud computing if you use the term to mean "network computing" or "Internet computing".
But, again, I'm not seeing a lot of point in arguing the technical definition of a marketing term. Netflix is what it is, regardless of whether or not you and I agree on the meaning of "The Cloud".
And yet you are the one that started arguing the point that cloud computing shouldn’t mean what it means because the common definition is no longer as prominent as the marketing term, yet that is what I initially stated despite your arguing with that point and the cropping of a through definition that backed up what we’ve been stating in this thread.
1a) Surely you understand that there is a time frame between the knowing of an issue and its resolution. I have no idea if that time frame was excessive but your comment doesn?t support any evidence that it was, but simply states what was obvious fact for a given time frame.
1b) Since this logic board issue also affected some iBook G4 models The faulty logic boards also affected some iBook G4 models it seems to me the design/production issue could have eluded Apple for awhile.
1c) Considering that the iBook G3 goes back 8-10 years the harming of Apple?s rep would be minor compared to today?s Apple with dominate mindshare. Note in 2003 Apple wasn?t eve selling a million Macs a quarter.
1d) I?ve never even heard of Screen Savers and have been using Macs long before the iBook was an Apple brand.
2a) iPods did sell in excessively higher numbers than iBooks and therefore more of an issue and concern for consumers but aren?t we still talking about the 1st and 2nd generation iPods from 2004 and earlier. I wonder how many of those affected consumers said ?I?ll never buy another Apple product again? and actually haven?t with so many advances in technology.
2b) The number of products with bad Lithium batteries is astounding. Batteries may not have moving parts but they are active, and can and do fail.
3) I don?t recollect any iPod Nano battery recall or replacement settlement. Lawsuits against corps. with deep pockets are filed all the time and usually long before any company knows of an issue or can assess an issue. Note the latest issue with the tracking and the lawsuits filed immediately.
5a) He never said that to users and they held an event to address the perceived issue. Apple and Jobs did show how you can attenuate the single of other phones with your hands.
5b) The ?antenna-gate? issue probably affected Apple?s reputation more than all the other niggling points you make but to what extent? They gave away free Bumpers for a couple months but didn?t issue a recall and didn?t remove the external antenna? and has increased their sales each quarter since that announcement. They are the world?s most profitable handset vendor ?*and by a large margin, at that ?*so any boost to Android-based vendors, RiM, et al. would pale in comparison.
PS: It?s odd that you personally blame Jobs for technical issues that he wasn?t directly responsible for except when it comes to MobileMe. Jobs is Apple?s CEO (still is!) so if the company falters, even if the issue is from a 3rd-party it?s still on Jobs as the head of the company.
PPS: You left out the iPad 2 light leak issue which isn?t as large as "antenna-gate? but still more widespread and known than any of the other issues you mention.
PPPS: Did you know that all CE is prone to potential issues because it?s mass produced consumer electronics that literally has dozens of companies involved in its creation? You can only feasibly sample only so many units. One of the things that people seems to like about Apple is their no hassle returns and replacements. They don?t even have a restocking fee anymore. I?d say that Apple?s rep is far exceeding their competition.
I hate to say this to people but don't be a prick. Steve is the CEO and therefore does get the blame. Sorry I don't know that name of every software/hardware developer manufacturer - but he put the damn shit together. Additionally, it was due to his policies that stuff like number 1 and 4 developed - hide it, wait, oh shit, we need to react to media attention. I love Apple products but I had the stuff they do. I can recognize the good shit that they do so I think it is only fair that you are able to recognize and accept the shit shit that they do.
Sorry. This one doesn't count because he was right on the money AND the whole antenna gate was bogus.
How do we know? Every survey on iPhone 4 satisfaction results in over 80% being 'very satisfied' and another 12% being 'satisfied'. This satisfaction metric out distances any other phone by a mile.
I don't know how stupid you are but the reason people use the phone and like it so much is because they are willing to LIVE with the antenna gate thing. It does count for two reasons, it is a legitimate issue that many other phones do not have and Apple didn't do anything about it. The OS is awesome, the syncing is awesome, the things the phone can do is awesome. So everyone gets a bumper or a bluetooth headset. That does not resolve the issue but merely patches it. Being satisfied does not mean an issue doesn't exist.
I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of merger between MobileMe and Ping to make it easier to share content. Currently you can post photos, but you can't really do anything with them after they are posted (tagging, mapping, etc). And there is no good way to get people to your photo page.
Definitely. Photos and music are easy starting points of a social service. Add commenting options, published calendars, current location (via iPhone), bookmark menus on Safari, game centre - it gets big reasonably easily.
It was a leading question. Jobs already knew what it was SUPPOSED to do, and he was waiting for the idiot that would answer the question to give his response.
Thompson
I find it extremely hard to believe that the MobileMe Team can launch the product without SJ's testing and approval. But if SJ already did that, then it's also his responsibility for allowing the product to be approved.
Maybe I'm a traditionalist but I believe that when there's any mistake made in a company, the CEO always bear at least part of the blame, and should have no right to point fingers.
And yet you are the one that started arguing the point that cloud computing shouldn’t mean what it means because the common definition is no longer as prominent as the marketing term, yet that is what I initially stated despite your arguing with that point and the cropping of a through definition that backed up what we’ve been stating in this thread.
Oh brother. Look, the term isn't used used the way you're claiming. Wiki didn't use it that way, the article that started this thread did't use it that way, I've not seen it used the way you're claiming anywhere outside of this thread.
If you want to continue this nonsensical argument and toss ridiculous accusations my way when the truth is I don't even consider the argument to be worth even what's been said about it so far, the only thing that's going to come of it is I'll add you to ignore for wasting my time.
I find it extremely hard to believe that the MobileMe Team can launch the product without SJ's testing and approval. But if SJ already did that, then it's also his responsibility for allowing the product to be approved.
Maybe I'm a traditionalist but I believe that when there's any mistake made in a company, the CEO always bear at least part of the blame, and should have no right to point fingers.
They bear part of the blame but they have the right to point fingers unless they are the only one who worked on the project - the people work for the guy so they did not do it right. It wasn't like he was making the servers deny requests.
Never said it was. I said things like Netflix aren't examples of cloud computing, as the term is commonly used. Netflix is an example of cloud computing if you use the term to mean "network computing" or "Internet computing".
But, again, I'm not seeing a lot of point in arguing the technical definition of a marketing term. Netflix is what it is, regardless of whether or not you and I agree on the meaning of "The Cloud".
They bear part of the blame but they have the right to point fingers unless they are the only one who worked on the project - the people work for the guy so they did not do it right. It wasn't like he was making the servers deny requests.
The point being you point fingers before the release, not after.
This article is supposed to paint a picture of Apple's impressively unique management architecture. But the MobileMe example unintentionally shows that their system failed miserably. First of all, how could Steve Jobs the almighty leader not be aware that MobileMe was simply not working well? How could the entire management team allow it to be launched? How is it that, two years after this impassioned outburst by Jobs, MobileMe remains essentially a dud? Clearly, neither Jobs nor his gestalt management team uses it, or they would be more aware of its failings.
Jobs likes to say that Apple makes great hardware in order to write great software. Well, MobileMe and Ping are two examples of miserable software failures. In comparison, their hardware products have a superior batting average.
And, before the shots are fired, this is not an Android troll writing, but rather a passionate Apple fan. The point here is that Apple does not seem to have the requisite DNA in writing service based software. This is not an easy thing to change. And it makes you wonder about their upcoming music locker service.
I'd love to see more effort put into RSS... but it seems like everyone is moving to Twitter.
It's a shame IMO that we have to trade off the better news format in RSS for the added social element in Twitter.
I'd love to see an RSS replacement that sits on top of Twitter. That would be sweet.
As far as managing RSS feeds go Google Reader is by far and away still the best service... although I like using local client front ends (Feeddler is my fav)
RSS is too "antisocial", agreed. Everything's gotta be "social" nowadays. If the whole world doesn't know what you're doing, where you are, who you're friends with or following or not following and who's retweeting or not retweeting or tagging who and what or what not it's no longer worthwhile.
Isn't it interesting that the value of "news" is no longer in the content or reporting but the response of those consuming the news.
Comments
I expect a lot more applications to evolve this way. Along with the ones you mentioned (iLife, Numbers, Pages, and Keynote) I think you should also add iTunes.
I think we?ll have to see something pretty close to how iTunes currently works for their iCloud service to be a winner. That includes but is not limited to Playlist access, creation and editing right from the browser.
As I?m sure you know they moved iTunes Store within iTunes to WebKit a couple years ago and now have pre-iTunes Store/App Store web browser pages that mimic the look and feel pretty much exactly. You can even sample music tracks within the modern browsers. I bring this up because I?ve always seen this as a stepping stone to the eventual inclusion to a web-based iTunes app.
For consumers I think Apple have shown you can do this with a curated App Store. You don't have to run everything through a browser.
I think Apple will continue to expand on this with future iOS and OSX versions. Eventually you should be able to log into a computer and have access to everything you own. For example personal pictures, videos, documents and settings along with purchased music, movies, TV and apps.
If you don't have permission to (or don't want to) sync to a computer there should be simplified "web app" versions of the applications you own.
This is an interesting thought and perhaps not too difficult with Apple?s support for modern webcode, though looking at iWeb you wouldn?t think Apple cared much at all.
They give some examples of data (music, pictures, videos, bookmarks) and of cloud services (Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo) but it doesn't state that "Cloud computing" is exclusively limited to these services.
Never said it was. I said things like Netflix aren't examples of cloud computing, as the term is commonly used. Netflix is an example of cloud computing if you use the term to mean "network computing" or "Internet computing".
But, again, I'm not seeing a lot of point in arguing the technical definition of a marketing term. Netflix is what it is, regardless of whether or not you and I agree on the meaning of "The Cloud".
Hey, remember clicking that little agree button. You agreed that any loss of information due to YOU not being RESPONSIBLE to back up what's important to YOU, won't be apple's responsibility. Take some god damn responsibility lolol...jeeezzz adults act as ignorant as kids.
One of the things I like about AppleInsider is the lack of snotty criticism. Well, I guess until now. Seriously, do you read every license agreement that you have to click "agree" to? It's Apple. They are trusted. He should've backed up....and probably did. If not, I'm sure there's a recovery program that will get his photos back. You don't have to be a dick about it.
It's funny how people hide behind the internet to spew their venom.
IMO Microsoft has shown the best balance with office integration that Apple would do well to emulate.
Files are stored locally and in the cloud. If you have Office installed on the PC you're using you get the full featured experience. If not, you can edit the documents online using Office Web Apps.
Although this is useful, to be honest it isn't really revolutionary. People have been doing the same thing with email for years.
I expect a lot more applications to evolve this way. Along with the ones you mentioned (iLife, Numbers, Pages, and Keynote) I think you should also add iTunes.
For consumers I think Apple have shown you can do this with a curated App Store. You don't have to run everything through a browser.
I think Apple will continue to expand on this with future iOS and OSX versions. Eventually you should be able to log into a computer and have access to everything you own. For example personal pictures, videos, documents and settings along with purchased music, movies, TV and apps.
If you don't have permission to (or don't want to) sync to a computer there should be simplified "web app" versions of the applications you own.
Yep you're correct, I missed iTunes. I think your last sentence is what is making hearts beat strong for the Cloud, given that 90% of the abilities of applications like Word are unused making a streamlined, made for web and desktop application possible and practical. The Google apps that you had mentioned in a prior post I think are there to test the waters, there are different ways to measure success, especially when talking about a paradigm shift when it comes to large organizations and IT support.
Don't you get it?!?!?
It was a leading question. Jobs already knew what it was SUPPOSED to do, and he was waiting for the idiot that would answer the question to give his response.
Thompson
And he should have done all that before the product was launched. You don't wait wait till after the launch to determine whether or not the product is what you want it to be.
Never said it was. I said things like Netflix aren't examples of cloud computing, as the term is commonly used. Netflix is an example of cloud computing if you use the term to mean "network computing" or "Internet computing".
But, again, I'm not seeing a lot of point in arguing the technical definition of a marketing term. Netflix is what it is, regardless of whether or not you and I agree on the meaning of "The Cloud".
And yet you are the one that started arguing the point that cloud computing shouldn’t mean what it means because the common definition is no longer as prominent as the marketing term, yet that is what I initially stated despite your arguing with that point and the cropping of a through definition that backed up what we’ve been stating in this thread.
Hate each other? That's pretty funny, in that it is pretty messed up. ...
I don't know why this is "messed up." It sounds like appropriate chastisement to me.
What are they supposed to do after screwing up thousands of people's data? Have a group hug?
If it was me I would use the word "ashamed" more than "hate" because it's more accurate, but the general feeling is the same.
1a) Surely you understand that there is a time frame between the knowing of an issue and its resolution. I have no idea if that time frame was excessive but your comment doesn?t support any evidence that it was, but simply states what was obvious fact for a given time frame.
1b) Since this logic board issue also affected some iBook G4 models The faulty logic boards also affected some iBook G4 models it seems to me the design/production issue could have eluded Apple for awhile.
1c) Considering that the iBook G3 goes back 8-10 years the harming of Apple?s rep would be minor compared to today?s Apple with dominate mindshare. Note in 2003 Apple wasn?t eve selling a million Macs a quarter.
1d) I?ve never even heard of Screen Savers and have been using Macs long before the iBook was an Apple brand.
2a) iPods did sell in excessively higher numbers than iBooks and therefore more of an issue and concern for consumers but aren?t we still talking about the 1st and 2nd generation iPods from 2004 and earlier. I wonder how many of those affected consumers said ?I?ll never buy another Apple product again? and actually haven?t with so many advances in technology.
2b) The number of products with bad Lithium batteries is astounding. Batteries may not have moving parts but they are active, and can and do fail.
3) I don?t recollect any iPod Nano battery recall or replacement settlement. Lawsuits against corps. with deep pockets are filed all the time and usually long before any company knows of an issue or can assess an issue. Note the latest issue with the tracking and the lawsuits filed immediately.
4) See #3.
5a) He never said that to users and they held an event to address the perceived issue. Apple and Jobs did show how you can attenuate the single of other phones with your hands.
5b) The ?antenna-gate? issue probably affected Apple?s reputation more than all the other niggling points you make but to what extent? They gave away free Bumpers for a couple months but didn?t issue a recall and didn?t remove the external antenna? and has increased their sales each quarter since that announcement. They are the world?s most profitable handset vendor ?*and by a large margin, at that ?*so any boost to Android-based vendors, RiM, et al. would pale in comparison.
PS: It?s odd that you personally blame Jobs for technical issues that he wasn?t directly responsible for except when it comes to MobileMe. Jobs is Apple?s CEO (still is!) so if the company falters, even if the issue is from a 3rd-party it?s still on Jobs as the head of the company.
PPS: You left out the iPad 2 light leak issue which isn?t as large as "antenna-gate? but still more widespread and known than any of the other issues you mention.
PPPS: Did you know that all CE is prone to potential issues because it?s mass produced consumer electronics that literally has dozens of companies involved in its creation? You can only feasibly sample only so many units. One of the things that people seems to like about Apple is their no hassle returns and replacements. They don?t even have a restocking fee anymore. I?d say that Apple?s rep is far exceeding their competition.
I hate to say this to people but don't be a prick. Steve is the CEO and therefore does get the blame. Sorry I don't know that name of every software/hardware developer manufacturer - but he put the damn shit together. Additionally, it was due to his policies that stuff like number 1 and 4 developed - hide it, wait, oh shit, we need to react to media attention. I love Apple products but I had the stuff they do. I can recognize the good shit that they do so I think it is only fair that you are able to recognize and accept the shit shit that they do.
Sorry. This one doesn't count because he was right on the money AND the whole antenna gate was bogus.
How do we know? Every survey on iPhone 4 satisfaction results in over 80% being 'very satisfied' and another 12% being 'satisfied'. This satisfaction metric out distances any other phone by a mile.
I don't know how stupid you are but the reason people use the phone and like it so much is because they are willing to LIVE with the antenna gate thing. It does count for two reasons, it is a legitimate issue that many other phones do not have and Apple didn't do anything about it. The OS is awesome, the syncing is awesome, the things the phone can do is awesome. So everyone gets a bumper or a bluetooth headset. That does not resolve the issue but merely patches it. Being satisfied does not mean an issue doesn't exist.
I don't know why this is "messed up." It sounds like appropriate chastisement to me.
What are they supposed to do after screwing up thousands of people's data? Have a group hug?
If it was me I would use the word "ashamed" more than "hate" because it's more accurate, but the general feeling is the same.
Completely agree
I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of merger between MobileMe and Ping to make it easier to share content. Currently you can post photos, but you can't really do anything with them after they are posted (tagging, mapping, etc). And there is no good way to get people to your photo page.
Definitely. Photos and music are easy starting points of a social service. Add commenting options, published calendars, current location (via iPhone), bookmark menus on Safari, game centre - it gets big reasonably easily.
Don't you get it?!?!?
It was a leading question. Jobs already knew what it was SUPPOSED to do, and he was waiting for the idiot that would answer the question to give his response.
Thompson
I find it extremely hard to believe that the MobileMe Team can launch the product without SJ's testing and approval. But if SJ already did that, then it's also his responsibility for allowing the product to be approved.
Maybe I'm a traditionalist but I believe that when there's any mistake made in a company, the CEO always bear at least part of the blame, and should have no right to point fingers.
And yet you are the one that started arguing the point that cloud computing shouldn’t mean what it means because the common definition is no longer as prominent as the marketing term, yet that is what I initially stated despite your arguing with that point and the cropping of a through definition that backed up what we’ve been stating in this thread.
Oh brother. Look, the term isn't used used the way you're claiming. Wiki didn't use it that way, the article that started this thread did't use it that way, I've not seen it used the way you're claiming anywhere outside of this thread.
If you want to continue this nonsensical argument and toss ridiculous accusations my way when the truth is I don't even consider the argument to be worth even what's been said about it so far, the only thing that's going to come of it is I'll add you to ignore for wasting my time.
I find it extremely hard to believe that the MobileMe Team can launch the product without SJ's testing and approval. But if SJ already did that, then it's also his responsibility for allowing the product to be approved.
Maybe I'm a traditionalist but I believe that when there's any mistake made in a company, the CEO always bear at least part of the blame, and should have no right to point fingers.
They bear part of the blame but they have the right to point fingers unless they are the only one who worked on the project - the people work for the guy so they did not do it right. It wasn't like he was making the servers deny requests.
Never said it was. I said things like Netflix aren't examples of cloud computing, as the term is commonly used. Netflix is an example of cloud computing if you use the term to mean "network computing" or "Internet computing".
But, again, I'm not seeing a lot of point in arguing the technical definition of a marketing term. Netflix is what it is, regardless of whether or not you and I agree on the meaning of "The Cloud".
You back flip more than an Olympic gymnast!
They bear part of the blame but they have the right to point fingers unless they are the only one who worked on the project - the people work for the guy so they did not do it right. It wasn't like he was making the servers deny requests.
The point being you point fingers before the release, not after.
You back flip more than an Olympic gymnast!
You just can't admit you were wrong and move on.
But hey, tell the world that Unix's ping utility is a cloud service for all I care. This discussion has passed the point of being useful.
Steve Jobs has probably done more to tarnish Apple's reputation than any number of MobileMe programmers did.
Yeah, Apple's reputation is in shambles.
Jobs likes to say that Apple makes great hardware in order to write great software. Well, MobileMe and Ping are two examples of miserable software failures. In comparison, their hardware products have a superior batting average.
And, before the shots are fired, this is not an Android troll writing, but rather a passionate Apple fan. The point here is that Apple does not seem to have the requisite DNA in writing service based software. This is not an easy thing to change. And it makes you wonder about their upcoming music locker service.
I'd love to see more effort put into RSS... but it seems like everyone is moving to Twitter.
It's a shame IMO that we have to trade off the better news format in RSS for the added social element in Twitter.
I'd love to see an RSS replacement that sits on top of Twitter. That would be sweet.
As far as managing RSS feeds go Google Reader is by far and away still the best service... although I like using local client front ends (Feeddler is my fav)
RSS is too "antisocial", agreed. Everything's gotta be "social" nowadays. If the whole world doesn't know what you're doing, where you are, who you're friends with or following or not following and who's retweeting or not retweeting or tagging who and what or what not it's no longer worthwhile.
Isn't it interesting that the value of "news" is no longer in the content or reporting but the response of those consuming the news.