"It's a point of sales problem. It's an expertise problem. It's a marketing problem to consumers. It's a price point problem," he reportedly said, adding: "And it's a software richness of content problem."
Now say that in 4 words or less: It's not an iPad.
Apple did a very difficult but successful maneuver on the parallel bars and made it look really easy... the other kids on the block thought there was nothing to it, tried to do it themselves and the results have been contusions, concussions, lacerations, 3rd degree burns and broken bones.
Enjoy your laugh now. Then again, perhaps your laugh will continue for a while, I don't know. I do know that today's Android phone market is larger than the iOS market. It's tough to laugh at Android handsets. At least today. Once upon a time, Android phones were weak. Rushed to market. The only appeal was that they weren't Apple products. And yet they still sold. Today, Android phones are represent a pretty decent platform. A true alternative to iOS. I suspect that Android on tablets will come around as well. You may be laughing at something that will come back to bite you.
I saw this in action when I stopped by a Staples the one day. I decided to check out the Playbook and give it a fair shake. When I walked up to the display, it was completely disheveled. The device was lopsided on the stand and the screen was half filled and stretched. Complete unusable. Next to the device as a sign printed on a piece of regular paper that said you need to download an update and it takes 30 minutes on a broadband connection.
Why on EARTH would you buy this load of crap?
I think this is more indicative of the quality of Staples than the Playbook.
So, you're saying: No one can find them to buy, no one knows how to sell them, no one wants to advertise them, they cost too much and have nothing useful you can do with them. OK I understand now.
nothing like cutting to the meat
"RIM is burying themselves with disastrous PR for this one device alone."
but we have heard over and over how to forget the past this is the future of RIM, and how this alone will rescue BB and RIM, well enterprise sees the writing on the wall, RIM can't provide the support of the products, which os to use and continue supporting, too fragmented to really care. enterprise is moving AWAY from RIM to android and iOS
RIM's big players, enterprise are moving on
there was a good article about the the future of RIM and it wasn't pretty when i find it i will post
If Apple was working on the iPad for years, why is it that the competition is only now struggling to respond. And what does it matter that a year from now competing tablets will become about as polished and capable as the iPad 2 for a competitive price when a year from now Apple will be selling the iPad 3.
To turn this into a legitimate competition, a competitor has to leapfrog what Apple has accomplished and considering all of them seem to be stumbling around trying to catch up, with that catch-up months away (around the time when Apple will raise the bar with the next iPad), it's not hard to figure out where this is headed.
So by my calculations, you have to figure out what the iPad 3 is likely to be and offer something similar months before the likely January/February 2012 introduction. We are likely to see a lighter device with more power, more memory, a higher-resolution screen, better cameras, and OS enhancements with no change in price. Are we going to see a competitor bring to market a device able to take on such an iPad 3, only be available to consumers in time for this coming Christmas? Possible but not likely.
So there it is. That's the challenge. If what we have in time for Christmas are tablets that are at least competitive with the iPad 2, too little, too late.
Apple is a software company that makes their own hardware. They have iTunes and the iTunes store to integrate with. They have great developer tools with XCode and a simple way for developers to get their software to users. Until a competitor can cover all three areas: PC integration, content delivery, and developer tools; they aren't going to compete.
Microsoft could have had a chance, but they don't make their own hardware, and their OS is intentionally generic allowing hardware manufacturers to butcher the user experience. Android has the same OS-hardware disconnect. Google is trying to get the content delivery working, but they seem to be angering the content owners.
Sony would be a good candidate to compete, too. But apparently they can't write software or understand user interfaces to save their life.
Enjoy your laugh now. Then again, perhaps your laugh will continue for a while, I don't know. I do know that today's Android phone market is larger than the iOS market. It's tough to laugh at Android handsets. At least today. Once upon a time, Android phones were weak. Rushed to market. The only appeal was that they weren't Apple products. And yet they still sold. Today, Android phones are represent a pretty decent platform. A true alternative to iOS. I suspect that Android on tablets will come around as well. You may be laughing at something that will come back to bite you.
So the tablet market's story has yet to be written, but the Android phone market is all sewn up. We'll see I guess.
iPhone 3GSs are out selling Android phones for pete's sake. Every Android phone that is annointed 'iPhone-killer" is forgotten less than three months after its release. Android, I suspect, is burning through its customers in the US via these BOGO. In other words, companies tend to drop the prices as they move from consuming early adopters, then mainstream, then the latecomers. Android may already by at the end of the curve by giving away the hardware. The broke and the cheapies simply don't make good customers. Look at how much money is being made by iOS developers vs. Android developers.
I mean, let's say Android domintes the low end in India, Brazil and China via the carriers giving away the phones, how does that benefit software developers in say the US? How do you get money of these people? Simple. You don't.
The PC market is having the exact same problem, except where Google is making all the money in phones, its MS in PCs. Yet, in both cases Apple is making more still cleaning up and growing share.
In addition, the Android phone market is NOT larger than the iOS market. That is simply untrue. iOS had sold more units and iPhones have sold more than probably the 4 top Android vendors. I am very interested in what iPhone 5 will do even though I know how it will turn out in the US. If the iPhone 4 is outselling the newest Android LTE phones like the Thunderbolt, I suspect that the iPhone 5 will dominate on Verizon to even a larger degree.
Not really. They just need to be good enough to offer a viable alternative. Android phones fumbled around for awhile at first, but now are giving Apple some competition. They didn't "leapfrog" the iPhone. They offered good options as an alternative.
Sure, Apple has the best option right now, but that doesn't mean it fits everyone's needs.
I agree and surely that is the point stacked against the iPad clones. What could the unique selling point be? Price, but that will be a junk system. Flash? If it was such a selling point, PC vendors would have been pitching theirs as better at it and they don't, it is marginal. Can take a USB stick, handy if a given app uses it, bit better than marginal. Better apps and media, hardly. A better camera? What for, a tablet is too big, laptop vendors haven't been leading the pack based on camera. Better web? But it will come up as a mobile device so you will have the same limits. Availability (in the USA only) was where android phones scored, a non issue with tablets.
One area, in my opinion THE area is producitivity apps. A real word/excel option, the iPad is still weak there. Android is even weaker with little hope or interest in making a leap forward. So we have to wait for Microkia really. Not to say android tablets won't sell but not in the volume. There is no compelling reason, sure for the minority of geeks you mention who feel they are above it all, so.
The company that produces a tablet that matches the iPad adequately and offer Word and Excel with full editing of any document. There is the opportunity.
Enjoy your laugh now. Then again, perhaps your laugh will continue for a while, I don't know. I do know that today's Android phone market is larger than the iOS market. It's tough to laugh at Android handsets. At least today. Once upon a time, Android phones were weak. Rushed to market. The only appeal was that they weren't Apple products. And yet they still sold. Today, Android phones are represent a pretty decent platform. A true alternative to iOS. I suspect that Android on tablets will come around as well. You may be laughing at something that will come back to bite you.
You are missing the reason for the tremendous "success" of the android market share. The reason that they have grown to where they are is is simply because they offer them for free or in 2 for 1 deals.
Without that, their rate of growth wouldn't have been nearly as fast and their success would have been non existent.
Now what you're seeing with the tablets is that they have to stand on their own feet with no subsidies, no freebies and priced high enough that people would rather spend that money on a product with a big name behind it and one that is also "trendy" like the iPad.
So the tablet market's story has yet to be written, but the Android phone market is all sewn up. We'll see I guess.
iPhone 3GSs are out selling Android phones for pete's sake. Every Android phone that is annointed 'iPhone-killer" is forgotten less than three months after its release. Android, I suspect, is burning through its customers in the US via these BOGO. In other words, companies tend to drop the prices as they move from consuming early adopters, then mainstream, then the latecomers. Android may already by at the end of the curve by giving away the hardware. The broke and the cheapies simply don't make good customers. Look at how much money is being made by iOS developers vs. Android developers.
I mean, let's say Android domintes the low end in India, Brazil and China via the carriers giving away the phones, how does that benefit software developers in say the US? How do you get money of these people? Simple. You don't.
The PC market is having the exact same problem, except where Google is making all the money in phones, its MS in PCs. Yet, in both cases Apple is making more still cleaning up and growing share.
In addition, the Android phone market is NOT larger than the iOS market. That is simply untrue. iOS had sold more units and iPhones have sold more than probably the 4 top Android vendors. I am very interested in what iPhone 5 will do even though I know how it will turn out in the US. If the iPhone 4 is outselling the newest Android LTE phones like the Thunderbolt, I suspect that the iPhone 5 will dominate on Verizon to even a larger degree.
All hail The Eternal Emperor for a darn good post!
I actually hope they figure it out and do well. More competition is better for the market. It will push innovation at a faster pace. Yes, even as good as Apple's products are, I believe they could do even better if they had some competition nipping at their heels.
Apple does not need outside competition to drive them -- they compete with themselves.
Sometimes, a competitor will offer a [perceived] similar product before Apple -- the LG Prada phone comes to mind. Then everyone claims that the competitor beat Apple to market and Apple copied their product.
On sober review of the situation, you realize that Apple has spent years designing and perfecting a total solution -- while the competitor's product is shoddy and rushed to market.
To paraphrase an Orson Wells ad (no not the frozen peas ad) -- Apple will release no product before its time.
I actually hope they figure it out and do well. More competition is better for the market. It will push innovation at a faster pace. Yes, even as good as Apple's products are, I believe they could do even better if they had some competition nipping at their heels.
Local file management, file sharing, printing... to name three areas that could be improved. The two first are really one, I guess.
Believe it or not, not everyone drinks the Apple Kool-Aid. Some people want choices which Apple refuse to offer. And I know a growing number of people who are anti-Apple because of that lack of choice and the "my way or the highway" attitude. Sure, Apple has the best option right now, but that doesn't mean it fits everyone's needs.
While I agree that Android is a worthy competitor to iOS now, and a good alternative to an iPhone for many people, I disagree that it has anything to do with choice. That's just the same hollow reasoning you get from the 'anti-Apple' people you mentioned, but it's completely meaningless. People aren't anti-Apple because Android offers more choice, in fact for typical customers Android offers less. The fact that you can sideload applications, hook up a mouse or a printer, connect your phone over HDMI or flash custom ROMS, it's all so far removed from what 'normal people' do with their phones that it doesn't even cross their mind when buying a phone. The choices people care about are 'can I use Netflix on it', 'can I install Angry Birds on it', 'does it have WhatsApp and Skype', 'how easy is it to operate the thing', etc. In terms of quality applications iOS provides more choice, not less.
I have yet to meet the first person in real life who admits to buying an Android phone because it offers him/here 'more choice'. My observation is that the only choice people want to make about a smartphone is 'do I want to spend that much $$$ on a device that looks and works like this?'. If they conclude the iPhone is too expensive and they played around with an Android phone and it looks ok to them, they will go for the Android phone. I'd estimate the percentage of potential buyers who eventually decide to not buy an iPhone because they think it 'offers them less choice' is close to 1%. People always think they want more choice, but actually they don't want more than 2 or 3 choices, otherwise they lose their overview and get all stressed out because after they choose one of the many available choices, the idea they might have made the wrong choice because they didn't have the time or energy to research all their options will keep nagging.
I think people don't 'hate Apple' because Apple gives you less choice, people 'hate Apple' because it's human nature for many people to hate on something succesful, especially something succesful that isn't cheap. That's really all there is to it. It's the Microsoft effect from 10 years back, but now it's Apple who draws all the attention.
Apple is a software company that makes their own hardware. They have iTunes and the iTunes store to integrate with. They have great developer tools with XCode and a simple way for developers to get their software to users. Until a competitor can cover all three areas: PC integration, content delivery, and developer tools; they aren't going to compete.
Microsoft could have had a chance, but they don't make their own hardware, and their OS is intentionally generic allowing hardware manufacturers to butcher the user experience. Android has the same OS-hardware disconnect. Google is trying to get the content delivery working, but they seem to be angering the content owners.
Sony would be a good candidate to compete, too. But apparently they can't write software or understand user interfaces to save their life.
- Jasen.
Add in the fact that RIM has punted on creating their own application programming interface. They've just hacked out some method allowing them to run Android apps. And they've stolen bits of their user interface from webOS. Plus no email, calendar, etc. Definitely rushed to market.
I have higher hopes for Microsoft. I fully expect them to be making their own phones within a few years. (Nokia purchase or merger).
Comments
I didn't know there were other notebooks on the market, only the iPad.
iPad = notebook ???
"It's a point of sales problem. It's an expertise problem. It's a marketing problem to consumers. It's a price point problem," he reportedly said, adding: "And it's a software richness of content problem."
Now say that in 4 words or less: It's not an iPad.
All together now, folks:
1. Point
2. Laugh
To the tune of Nelson Muntz, of course: "Ha, HA!"
All together now, folks:
1. Point
2. Laugh
Enjoy your laugh now. Then again, perhaps your laugh will continue for a while, I don't know. I do know that today's Android phone market is larger than the iOS market. It's tough to laugh at Android handsets. At least today. Once upon a time, Android phones were weak. Rushed to market. The only appeal was that they weren't Apple products. And yet they still sold. Today, Android phones are represent a pretty decent platform. A true alternative to iOS. I suspect that Android on tablets will come around as well. You may be laughing at something that will come back to bite you.
I saw this in action when I stopped by a Staples the one day. I decided to check out the Playbook and give it a fair shake. When I walked up to the display, it was completely disheveled. The device was lopsided on the stand and the screen was half filled and stretched. Complete unusable. Next to the device as a sign printed on a piece of regular paper that said you need to download an update and it takes 30 minutes on a broadband connection.
Why on EARTH would you buy this load of crap?
I think this is more indicative of the quality of Staples than the Playbook.
So they've recalled all of them then.
I wonder what their value might be in the recycling industry? 5$ per tablet?
So, you're saying: No one can find them to buy, no one knows how to sell them, no one wants to advertise them, they cost too much and have nothing useful you can do with them. OK I understand now.
nothing like cutting to the meat
"RIM is burying themselves with disastrous PR for this one device alone."
but we have heard over and over how to forget the past this is the future of RIM, and how this alone will rescue BB and RIM, well enterprise sees the writing on the wall, RIM can't provide the support of the products, which os to use and continue supporting, too fragmented to really care. enterprise is moving AWAY from RIM to android and iOS
RIM's big players, enterprise are moving on
there was a good article about the the future of RIM and it wasn't pretty when i find it i will post
RIM is in deep deep trouble
found the article:
http://www.macworld.com/article/1598...lackberry.html
If Apple was working on the iPad for years, why is it that the competition is only now struggling to respond. And what does it matter that a year from now competing tablets will become about as polished and capable as the iPad 2 for a competitive price when a year from now Apple will be selling the iPad 3.
To turn this into a legitimate competition, a competitor has to leapfrog what Apple has accomplished and considering all of them seem to be stumbling around trying to catch up, with that catch-up months away (around the time when Apple will raise the bar with the next iPad), it's not hard to figure out where this is headed.
So by my calculations, you have to figure out what the iPad 3 is likely to be and offer something similar months before the likely January/February 2012 introduction. We are likely to see a lighter device with more power, more memory, a higher-resolution screen, better cameras, and OS enhancements with no change in price. Are we going to see a competitor bring to market a device able to take on such an iPad 3, only be available to consumers in time for this coming Christmas? Possible but not likely.
So there it is. That's the challenge. If what we have in time for Christmas are tablets that are at least competitive with the iPad 2, too little, too late.
Apple is a software company that makes their own hardware. They have iTunes and the iTunes store to integrate with. They have great developer tools with XCode and a simple way for developers to get their software to users. Until a competitor can cover all three areas: PC integration, content delivery, and developer tools; they aren't going to compete.
Microsoft could have had a chance, but they don't make their own hardware, and their OS is intentionally generic allowing hardware manufacturers to butcher the user experience. Android has the same OS-hardware disconnect. Google is trying to get the content delivery working, but they seem to be angering the content owners.
Sony would be a good candidate to compete, too. But apparently they can't write software or understand user interfaces to save their life.
- Jasen.
Enjoy your laugh now. Then again, perhaps your laugh will continue for a while, I don't know. I do know that today's Android phone market is larger than the iOS market. It's tough to laugh at Android handsets. At least today. Once upon a time, Android phones were weak. Rushed to market. The only appeal was that they weren't Apple products. And yet they still sold. Today, Android phones are represent a pretty decent platform. A true alternative to iOS. I suspect that Android on tablets will come around as well. You may be laughing at something that will come back to bite you.
So the tablet market's story has yet to be written, but the Android phone market is all sewn up. We'll see I guess.
iPhone 3GSs are out selling Android phones for pete's sake. Every Android phone that is annointed 'iPhone-killer" is forgotten less than three months after its release. Android, I suspect, is burning through its customers in the US via these BOGO. In other words, companies tend to drop the prices as they move from consuming early adopters, then mainstream, then the latecomers. Android may already by at the end of the curve by giving away the hardware. The broke and the cheapies simply don't make good customers. Look at how much money is being made by iOS developers vs. Android developers.
I mean, let's say Android domintes the low end in India, Brazil and China via the carriers giving away the phones, how does that benefit software developers in say the US? How do you get money of these people? Simple. You don't.
The PC market is having the exact same problem, except where Google is making all the money in phones, its MS in PCs. Yet, in both cases Apple is making more still cleaning up and growing share.
In addition, the Android phone market is NOT larger than the iOS market. That is simply untrue. iOS had sold more units and iPhones have sold more than probably the 4 top Android vendors. I am very interested in what iPhone 5 will do even though I know how it will turn out in the US. If the iPhone 4 is outselling the newest Android LTE phones like the Thunderbolt, I suspect that the iPhone 5 will dominate on Verizon to even a larger degree.
Not really. They just need to be good enough to offer a viable alternative. Android phones fumbled around for awhile at first, but now are giving Apple some competition. They didn't "leapfrog" the iPhone. They offered good options as an alternative.
Sure, Apple has the best option right now, but that doesn't mean it fits everyone's needs.
I agree and surely that is the point stacked against the iPad clones. What could the unique selling point be? Price, but that will be a junk system. Flash? If it was such a selling point, PC vendors would have been pitching theirs as better at it and they don't, it is marginal. Can take a USB stick, handy if a given app uses it, bit better than marginal. Better apps and media, hardly. A better camera? What for, a tablet is too big, laptop vendors haven't been leading the pack based on camera. Better web? But it will come up as a mobile device so you will have the same limits. Availability (in the USA only) was where android phones scored, a non issue with tablets.
One area, in my opinion THE area is producitivity apps. A real word/excel option, the iPad is still weak there. Android is even weaker with little hope or interest in making a leap forward. So we have to wait for Microkia really. Not to say android tablets won't sell but not in the volume. There is no compelling reason, sure for the minority of geeks you mention who feel they are above it all, so.
The company that produces a tablet that matches the iPad adequately and offer Word and Excel with full editing of any document. There is the opportunity.
Avai
Enjoy your laugh now. Then again, perhaps your laugh will continue for a while, I don't know. I do know that today's Android phone market is larger than the iOS market. It's tough to laugh at Android handsets. At least today. Once upon a time, Android phones were weak. Rushed to market. The only appeal was that they weren't Apple products. And yet they still sold. Today, Android phones are represent a pretty decent platform. A true alternative to iOS. I suspect that Android on tablets will come around as well. You may be laughing at something that will come back to bite you.
You are missing the reason for the tremendous "success" of the android market share. The reason that they have grown to where they are is is simply because they offer them for free or in 2 for 1 deals.
Without that, their rate of growth wouldn't have been nearly as fast and their success would have been non existent.
Now what you're seeing with the tablets is that they have to stand on their own feet with no subsidies, no freebies and priced high enough that people would rather spend that money on a product with a big name behind it and one that is also "trendy" like the iPad.
So the tablet market's story has yet to be written, but the Android phone market is all sewn up. We'll see I guess.
iPhone 3GSs are out selling Android phones for pete's sake. Every Android phone that is annointed 'iPhone-killer" is forgotten less than three months after its release. Android, I suspect, is burning through its customers in the US via these BOGO. In other words, companies tend to drop the prices as they move from consuming early adopters, then mainstream, then the latecomers. Android may already by at the end of the curve by giving away the hardware. The broke and the cheapies simply don't make good customers. Look at how much money is being made by iOS developers vs. Android developers.
I mean, let's say Android domintes the low end in India, Brazil and China via the carriers giving away the phones, how does that benefit software developers in say the US? How do you get money of these people? Simple. You don't.
The PC market is having the exact same problem, except where Google is making all the money in phones, its MS in PCs. Yet, in both cases Apple is making more still cleaning up and growing share.
In addition, the Android phone market is NOT larger than the iOS market. That is simply untrue. iOS had sold more units and iPhones have sold more than probably the 4 top Android vendors. I am very interested in what iPhone 5 will do even though I know how it will turn out in the US. If the iPhone 4 is outselling the newest Android LTE phones like the Thunderbolt, I suspect that the iPhone 5 will dominate on Verizon to even a larger degree.
All hail The Eternal Emperor for a darn good post!
(I actually mean that.)
I actually hope they figure it out and do well. More competition is better for the market. It will push innovation at a faster pace. Yes, even as good as Apple's products are, I believe they could do even better if they had some competition nipping at their heels.
Apple does not need outside competition to drive them -- they compete with themselves.
Sometimes, a competitor will offer a [perceived] similar product before Apple -- the LG Prada phone comes to mind. Then everyone claims that the competitor beat Apple to market and Apple copied their product.
On sober review of the situation, you realize that Apple has spent years designing and perfecting a total solution -- while the competitor's product is shoddy and rushed to market.
To paraphrase an Orson Wells ad (no not the frozen peas ad) -- Apple will release no product before its time.
I actually hope they figure it out and do well. More competition is better for the market. It will push innovation at a faster pace. Yes, even as good as Apple's products are, I believe they could do even better if they had some competition nipping at their heels.
Local file management, file sharing, printing... to name three areas that could be improved. The two first are really one, I guess.
Believe it or not, not everyone drinks the Apple Kool-Aid. Some people want choices which Apple refuse to offer. And I know a growing number of people who are anti-Apple because of that lack of choice and the "my way or the highway" attitude. Sure, Apple has the best option right now, but that doesn't mean it fits everyone's needs.
While I agree that Android is a worthy competitor to iOS now, and a good alternative to an iPhone for many people, I disagree that it has anything to do with choice. That's just the same hollow reasoning you get from the 'anti-Apple' people you mentioned, but it's completely meaningless. People aren't anti-Apple because Android offers more choice, in fact for typical customers Android offers less. The fact that you can sideload applications, hook up a mouse or a printer, connect your phone over HDMI or flash custom ROMS, it's all so far removed from what 'normal people' do with their phones that it doesn't even cross their mind when buying a phone. The choices people care about are 'can I use Netflix on it', 'can I install Angry Birds on it', 'does it have WhatsApp and Skype', 'how easy is it to operate the thing', etc. In terms of quality applications iOS provides more choice, not less.
I have yet to meet the first person in real life who admits to buying an Android phone because it offers him/here 'more choice'. My observation is that the only choice people want to make about a smartphone is 'do I want to spend that much $$$ on a device that looks and works like this?'. If they conclude the iPhone is too expensive and they played around with an Android phone and it looks ok to them, they will go for the Android phone. I'd estimate the percentage of potential buyers who eventually decide to not buy an iPhone because they think it 'offers them less choice' is close to 1%. People always think they want more choice, but actually they don't want more than 2 or 3 choices, otherwise they lose their overview and get all stressed out because after they choose one of the many available choices, the idea they might have made the wrong choice because they didn't have the time or energy to research all their options will keep nagging.
I think people don't 'hate Apple' because Apple gives you less choice, people 'hate Apple' because it's human nature for many people to hate on something succesful, especially something succesful that isn't cheap. That's really all there is to it. It's the Microsoft effect from 10 years back, but now it's Apple who draws all the attention.
Apple is a software company that makes their own hardware. They have iTunes and the iTunes store to integrate with. They have great developer tools with XCode and a simple way for developers to get their software to users. Until a competitor can cover all three areas: PC integration, content delivery, and developer tools; they aren't going to compete.
Microsoft could have had a chance, but they don't make their own hardware, and their OS is intentionally generic allowing hardware manufacturers to butcher the user experience. Android has the same OS-hardware disconnect. Google is trying to get the content delivery working, but they seem to be angering the content owners.
Sony would be a good candidate to compete, too. But apparently they can't write software or understand user interfaces to save their life.
- Jasen.
Add in the fact that RIM has punted on creating their own application programming interface. They've just hacked out some method allowing them to run Android apps. And they've stolen bits of their user interface from webOS. Plus no email, calendar, etc. Definitely rushed to market.
I have higher hopes for Microsoft. I fully expect them to be making their own phones within a few years. (Nokia purchase or merger).